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 A question to our dutch members

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PostSubject: A question to our dutch members   Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:36 pm

Hello, neighbours!
Someone at the old board mentioned, that Tristan Van der Vlies, perpetrator of the Alphen aan den Rijn Mall shooting, was obsessed with Columbine and especially Rachel Scott. But there is not a lot information about him in german or english and Im not able to understand dutch. The only things, I found about him are, that he was diagnosed with Schizophrenia prior to the shooting and that he left a suicide letter at his pc with "spiritual content": So here some questions for you:

- Can you tell me more about his fascination about Columbine and Rachel Scott?

- Was his suicide letter, or at least more information about the contens, made public?

- Can you tell me more about him in general, like his interactions with people, his time at school and similar things?

Thanks!
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PostSubject: Re: A question to our dutch members   Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:13 am

Oh, come on. We have a good amount of people from the netherlands. Nobody here who wants to answer my questions?Smile 
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PostSubject: Re: A question to our dutch members   Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:54 pm

There's not a lot of in-depth information about him, but here are a few things that have been described in several articles:

In 2006, his father found a red notebook in which Tristan described how he wanted to commit suicide at the local gun club. The father called 911 and apparently he (Tristan) received therapy and/or medication this same year.

Also in 2006, the father states Tristan watched a lot of clips about shootings. When the father asked him about it, Tristan replied that he was interested in the psychological background of the shooters.

Part of his suicide letter:

Lieve Marieke, mamma, ik hou van je. Het spijt me na al die jaren je zo te moeten kwetsen. Dit is nooit de bedoeling geweest! Ik hou van je en zal altijd van je houden. Ook jou wil ik blij maken. De reden waarom ik dood wil zijn is omdat ik met rust gelaten wil worden. Vergeet niet dat als ik verder had geleefd, dat ik het niet naar mijn zin had gehad.” Naar zijn vader schreef Tristan: “Hans. Help mamma goed en vergeef wat ik gedaan heb, maar ik kon niet anders. Het werd tijd dat jullie rust kregen. (..) Ga door met leven tot je niet meer kan en maak mooie schilderijen.”

Translation:
"Dear mom, I love you. I'm sorry to hurt you after all these years. This was never my intention! I love you and will always love you. I want to make you happy. The reason I want to die is because I want to be left alone. Don't forget that if I would've lived, I wouldn't have been happy."
To his dad he wrote: "Hans. Help mom and forgive me for what I've done, but I didn't have a choice. It's time for you to get rest. (...) go on with life and make pretty paintings."


I'm not very good at translating so if there are any other Dutch members with corrections or other translations, be my guest.

This is some of the info I could find during a quick search. I haven't researched this case at all, so I'm not familiar with all of the evidence and documents etc.

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PostSubject: Re: A question to our dutch members   Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:19 pm

I only know the basics about this case, so I'll look into it in the morning. Smile If there is a Columbine connection, it never made its way into the standard news articles here. Most of the stuff about him now is how authorities were warned about him prior to the actual shooting, and I believe his parents stressed that their son should not be allowed near firearms. Smile A lot of the focus lies in that area because his mental illness was well-documented and people now shift the blame to the people who knew but didn't stop him.
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PostSubject: Re: A question to our dutch members   Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:47 am

Thank you both, this is interesting information!
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PostSubject: Re: A question to our dutch members   Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:52 am

Okay, typing in his name alongside 'Columbine' on Google does provide me with an immediate hit on newssites. (And they quote Dave Cullen, so ugh.  Shocked ) The site says that he spent around 18 hours researching the shooting and that his interest went out to Rachel Scott because of the "do you believe in God?"-question. The article goes on to state that Tristan was misinformed, of course, but the main line of thought in the article is that he was fascinated by the question rather than by the actual shooting. And, then, I found something else on another site:

The book "Het Drama van Alphen/The Drama of Alphen" by Ivo van Woerden discusses the bond between Tristan and God. Tristan was raised in a Christian family, but they didn't frequent church a lot. He's a regular student in school and plays a lot with friends. During his later school period, Tristan used weed. The first signs of schizophrenia (bad concentration, hearing voices) were seen in him around the age of fourteen. His interest toward spirituality and faith grows during this time.

He becomes a member of a gun club at age fifteen. Later he appears to not only hear voices but also feel them. He struggles with God, who he feels rejected by. He starts a research against God. He writes all of this down in a manifesto called "The Counterword -- The word against God and religion". He claims that the people who pray to God are really praying to the Devil.

He contemplates suicide in the meantime. He was submitted to a mental health facility. One report clearly states that Tristan threatened suicide and had a fascination for firearms and God. After fifteen days in the facility, he is released and put in voluntary treatment. He is prescribed antipsychotics and antidepressants. He attempts suicide in August 2008 and is taken into hospital. A month and a half later, Tristan requests a gun permit and is granted this. The mental health facility is aware of the gun permit, but doesn't act due to their oath of confidentiality. Tristan has issues with sleep.

He hears voices of spirits. One voice, God's, is stronger than anything else. One of the spirits he's in touch with is one of the shooters responsible for the massacre at Columbine High (the article doesn't specify which one of the boys this was!). Tristan sees himself as a researcher of the paranormal and explores ideas surrounding death. His gun permit is renewed. He buys guns and ammo. He loses his job and is frustrated by this. He is angry with God. He's angry with society and humanity. He professes that love does not exist. He wrestles with the big questions of life such as "is there a God?" and "what's the meaning of life?". Eventually, Tristan comes up with a plan: punish God and then kill himself. This plan would be the one he'd execute on the day of the shooting.
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PostSubject: Re: A question to our dutch members   Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:58 am

Wow, what a bizarre but fascinating mindset. Especially that he believed to hear Eric's or Dylan's voice.
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PostSubject: Re: A question to our dutch members   Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:00 am

Does it say anywhere what type of medication he used?
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PostSubject: Re: A question to our dutch members   Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:12 am

When Greetje bumbed this thread I was meaning to look into it, but I had a very busy weekend. So I didn.t. But as usual thedragonrampant allready did her research well.

But I think I am going to dig a little deeper, because it has been a while since I heard something about it. A couple of months ago, I spoke with a former classmate of Tristan and he told me that Tristan was quite the loner and a weirdo in class. Which isn't very surprising for someone who is suffering from Schyzophrenia.


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PostSubject: Re: A question to our dutch members   Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:16 pm

I was able to dig up some more stuff about Tristan Van Der Vlis.

- Tristan didn't have a wide circle of friends and preferred to isolate himself from others. He never had a girlfriend. Sometimes he'd meet up with acquaintances and smoke weed with them. Descriptions from old classmates vary from pretty normal guy to weirdo who was quickly angered. According to an entry in his senior yearbook he hated school and had no idea what the future held in store for him.

- He was known to rail against authorities.

- He tried to commit suicide twice and wrote goodbye letters in 2004, 2005, and 2006.

- After his release from a mental health facility he applied for a job at a warehouse/distribution center. He first worked there as an order picker but he couldn't handle wearing a headset due to his schizofrenia, so he was then assigned to cleaning duty. He was described by a co-worker as decent, quiet and well-spoken. There were also several incidents, such as him kicking a colleague for stealing his wallet. Others complained about his fast & reckless driving on the parking lot. He dropped his pants once and was finally fired for destroying a cart of main dish soup with a knife.

- His mental health quickly deteriorated in 2010 and as a result he suffered from chronic insomnia.

- He felt ignored and betrayed by God and blamed Him for his psychological problems and all the suffering in the world.

-  He owned an electronic voice phenomenon & ouija board. Tristan believed he was able to communicate with spirits (among them the columbine killers) through these devices.

- He was angry at God for taking the life of Rachel Scott - a girl who had dedicated her life to Him. Tristan was also fascinated by the fact that Rachel seemed filled with foreboding of what was going to happen at Columbine.

- He wanted to punish God by attacking his flock of sheep.

- On the day of the attack (april 9, Eric's birthday) he called in bomb threats to 4 different shopping malls in the area. He started shooting at 12:08 (E & D's suicide) and fired 120 shots. 3.5 minutes later he killed himself. 6 people died in the attack.
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PostSubject: Re: A question to our dutch members   Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:23 pm

It seems strange, that the media seemed to ignore the connection with Columbine, given the fact, that his attack even appears like a reenactment of the case (The thing with opening fire at 12:08 is really weird).

tragedy79 wrote:
But I think I am going to dig a little deeper, because it has been a while since I heard something about it. A couple of months ago, I spoke with a former classmate of Tristan and he told me that Tristan was quite the loner and a weirdo in class. Which isn't very surprising for someone who is suffering from Schyzophrenia.


Thats very interesting. How did you learn to know this person and how did you get into that subject, if you don't mind me asking?[/quote]
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PostSubject: Re: A question to our dutch members   Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:00 pm

Hale-Bopp wrote:
It seems strange, that the media seemed to ignore the connection with Columbine, given the fact, that his attack even appears like a reenactment of the case (The thing with opening fire at 12:08 is really weird).

tragedy79 wrote:
But I think I am going to dig a little deeper, because it has been a while since I heard something about it. A couple of months ago, I spoke with a former classmate of Tristan and he told me that Tristan was quite the loner and a weirdo in class. Which isn't very surprising for someone who is suffering from Schyzophrenia.


Thats very interesting. How did you learn to know this person and how did you get into that subject, if you don't mind me asking?
[/quote]

For my job, I have to work at other peoples homes. So, one day I was talking to a client where he used to live and so he told me he was from Alphen aan de Rijn. I asked him if he still had family there and if someone he knew was nearby during the shooting that day. He told me he was visiting family at the time and he was actually across the street of the mall where it happened. And then he told me about the connection with Tristan.

I really wanted to ask a lot of questions, but he told me he didn't knew him well and second of all, I was there to work. So it would have been highly unproffesional to ask more questions. Damn it ;) 

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PostSubject: Re: A question to our dutch members   Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:18 pm

tragedy79 wrote:
Hale-Bopp wrote:
It seems strange, that the media seemed to ignore the connection with Columbine, given the fact, that his attack even appears like a reenactment of the case (The thing with opening fire at 12:08 is really weird).

tragedy79 wrote:
But I think I am going to dig a little deeper, because it has been a while since I heard something about it. A couple of months ago, I spoke with a former classmate of Tristan and he told me that Tristan was quite the loner and a weirdo in class. Which isn't very surprising for someone who is suffering from Schyzophrenia.


Thats very interesting. How did you learn to know this person and how did you get into that subject, if you don't mind me asking?

Quote :
For my job, I have to work at other peoples homes. So, one day I was talking to a client where he used to live and so he told me he was from Alphen aan de Rijn. I asked him if he still had family there and if someone he knew was nearby during the shooting that day. He told me he was visiting family at the time and he was actually across the street of the mall where it happened. And then he told me about the connection with Tristan.

I really wanted to ask a lot of questions, but he told me he didn't knew him well and second of all, I was there to work. So it would have been highly unproffesional to ask more questions. Damn it ;) 
[/quote]

I can totally imagine. I would have starved for information, if I came into that situation. Thanks for sharing!


Last edited by Hale-Bopp on Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: A question to our dutch members   Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:20 pm

You're welcome

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PostSubject: Re: A question to our dutch members   Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:45 pm

Quote :
-  He owned an electronic voice phenomenon & ouija board. Tristan believed he was able to communicate with spirits (among them the columbine killers) through these devices.

To be honest, I also once planned to channel Eric and Dylans spirits.Very Happy 
I still think, I should try that, just to see what happens.
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PostSubject: Re: A question to our dutch members   Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:28 pm

Hale-Bopp wrote:
Quote :
-  He owned an electronic voice phenomenon & ouija board. Tristan believed he was able to communicate with spirits (among them the columbine killers) through these devices.

To be honest, I also once planned to channel Eric and Dylans spirits.Very Happy 
I still think, I should try that, just to see what happens.

When I was younger I couldn't stand programs like A Haunting or Sightings (way back in the 90's), because they scared the shit out of me. I don't even believe in ghosts (I know, paradox...) but somehow the idea of being stalked or even watched by an invisible entity really gets to me.

What would you do if the spirits of either Eric or Dylan suddenly started screaming at you?  Surprised 
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PostSubject: Re: A question to our dutch members   Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:25 pm

MegaloX wrote:
Hale-Bopp wrote:
Quote :
-  He owned an electronic voice phenomenon & ouija board. Tristan believed he was able to communicate with spirits (among them the columbine killers) through these devices.

To be honest, I also once planned to channel Eric and Dylans spirits.Very Happy 
I still think, I should try that, just to see what happens.

When I was younger I couldn't stand programs like A Haunting or Sightings (way back in the 90's), because they scared the shit out of me. I don't even believe in ghosts (I know, paradox...) but somehow the idea of being stalked or even watched by an invisible entity really gets to me.

What would you do if the spirits of either Eric or Dylan suddenly started screaming at you?  Surprised 
I have no clue. It would probably depend of what they would saying.
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PostSubject: Re: A question to our dutch members   Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:21 am

Hale-Bopp wrote:
MegaloX wrote:
Hale-Bopp wrote:
Quote :
-  He owned an electronic voice phenomenon & ouija board. Tristan believed he was able to communicate with spirits (among them the columbine killers) through these devices.

To be honest, I also once planned to channel Eric and Dylans spirits.Very Happy 
I still think, I should try that, just to see what happens.

When I was younger I couldn't stand programs like A Haunting or Sightings (way back in the 90's), because they scared the shit out of me. I don't even believe in ghosts (I know, paradox...) but somehow the idea of being stalked or even watched by an invisible entity really gets to me.

What would you do if the spirits of either Eric or Dylan suddenly started screaming at you?  Surprised 
I have no clue. It would probably depend of what they would saying.

I would probably piss myself(or worse) Shocked 

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PostSubject: Re: A question to our dutch members   Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:23 am

Hale-Bopp wrote:
Quote :
-  He owned an electronic voice phenomenon & ouija board. Tristan believed he was able to communicate with spirits (among them the columbine killers) through these devices.

To be honest, I also once planned to channel Eric and Dylans spirits.Very Happy 
I still think, I should try that, just to see what happens.
Please share with us, if you do  Very Happy 
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PostSubject: Re: A question to our dutch members   Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:37 am

Quote :
I have no clue. It would probably depend of what they would saying.

NO, YOU GODDAMN LITTLE B*TCH ASS PIECE OF SH*T!!!....

Quote :
I would probably piss myself(or worse)  Shocked 

Me too!  Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: A question to our dutch members   Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:37 pm

http://nos.nl/artikel/255240-tristan-wilde-god-straffen.html

At the right is a small video about Tristan Van der Vlies and so far I understand, they quote from his "Het Tegenwoord"- Manifesto at one point.
Anyone here who would like to translate the quote? Smile
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