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 Mass Shooting in California

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Neah
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PostSubject: Re: Mass Shooting in California   Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:56 pm

Can't journalists have some decency and let the witnesses alone instead of interviewing them immediately after the tragedy when they are still in shock. People are filmed and photographed while crying, this is not information, this is not journalism, this is morbid curiosity. Most of them don't have any interesting info to say anyway, because they were too busy surviving.
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PostSubject: Re: Mass Shooting in California   Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:57 pm

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One of my friends lost a family member. Just saw it on my FB feed.  

Sad

My condolences.

Thanks.

I lived in SoCal for 8 years about 30 mins away from Thousand Oaks

That's rough. Did you ever go to this bar? I hope any friends you have in the area are safe.

For some reason, I thought you always lived in Colorado. It must be horrifying to be connected to two places where such horrible tragedies took place.

I never did but A friend of mine worked there when she was younger

I do live in Colorado now,  I have since April. But before that I lived in California Smile

It’s heavily weighing on me for sure.

Was that friend there last night or wash she safe?

With all the fun stories you have from around Littleton, I assumed you lived in Colorado much longer. So you're a Cali native? Can I ask, did you move to Colorado because of Columbine or more personal reasons?


My friend was safe, the person that died was my old teachers fam member

I’m an east coast native and moved to Colorado for work... super boring reason lol

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PostSubject: Re: Mass Shooting in California   Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:03 pm

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One of my friends lost a family member. Just saw it on my FB feed.  

Sad

My condolences.

Thanks.

I lived in SoCal for 8 years about 30 mins away from Thousand Oaks

You'd probably be safer moving to Canada, or UK where they have gun controll.

You dumbass what about knife attacks? XD

Or Troll Rampages..... flower
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PostSubject: Re: Mass Shooting in California   Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:12 pm

Before people start mouthing off about knife attacks in the UK, please understand these are not just random mass attacks but fights between teenage gang members. They are terrible, but not the same as someone armed and deranged walking into a bar of strangers and slaying 11 people.
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PostSubject: Re: Mass Shooting in California   Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:14 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Before people start mouthing off about knife attacks in the UK, please understand these are not just random mass attacks but fights between teenage gang members. They are terrible, but not the same as someone armed and deranged walking into a bar of strangers and slaying 11 people.
Are you sure about that?

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PostSubject: Re: Mass Shooting in California   Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:17 pm

If you read the article not just the headline "as young people increasingly carry knives for protection, status and safeguarding “criminal interests" - this isn't your rosy-cheeked grammar school kids or London bankers getting stabbed.
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PostSubject: Re: Mass Shooting in California   Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:21 pm

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If you read the article not just the headline "as young people increasingly carry knives for protection, status and safeguarding “criminal interests" - this isn't your rosy-cheeked grammar school kids or London bankers getting stabbed.
I did read the article actually, I was just disproving your point that knife crime is gang related, like that's some good excuse.

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PostSubject: Re: Mass Shooting in California   Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:25 pm

But my point is people are not just walking into bars and stabbing people. It is an issue, an issue in my own city to be honest, but as I am not a young black man living in a rough neighbourhood I am unlikely to die in a street knife attack. However, mass-shooting can be anywhere: a bar, a synagogue, a school, a yoga class... and that seems pretty much like terrorism. I lived through IRA bomb attacks in the 90s and mass-shootings are much more analogous with those than knife attacks.
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PostSubject: Re: Mass Shooting in California   Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:32 pm

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A neighbor of California bar shooter Ian David Long told reporters that he was a military veteran who may have struggled with post-traumatic stress disorder.

An unidentified female neighbor who claimed she knew Long told KABC reporters near the suspect's home in Newbury Park, Calif., that the suspect should likely not have had access to a firearm due to his alleged condition.

"I don't know what he was doing with a gun," she said.

Another neighbor, who spoke anonymously with ABC News, said Long was a homebody who lived with his 61-year-old mother and would rarely go outside. The neighbor also claimed that Long's mother recently confided that her son was growing "violent."

Wednesday's attack on the Borderline Bar & Grill in Thousand Oaks, Calif., left 12 people dead, including one law enforcement official.

Long was also found dead at the bar from a gunshot wound, although it remains unclear if the wound was self-inflicted or if the shooter was gunned down by police.

During a Thursday press conference, Ventura County Sheriff Geoff Dean said that Long, who served in the United States Marine Corps, had several prior interactions with the sheriff's department over the years. These included a traffic collision, a traffic citation and an instance in which Long was a victim of battery at a local bar in 2015.

In April 2018, authorities responded to Long's home on a report that he was acting erratically. Sheriff Dean said that though Long was found to be "somewhat irate" and "acting a little irrationally," he was cleared at the time by a crisis intervention team and a mental health specialist.

"PTSD might be a part of the conversation," Dean added of the April incident.






No

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PostSubject: Re: Mass Shooting in California   Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:39 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
But my point is people are not just walking into bars and stabbing people. It is an issue, an issue in my own city to be honest, but as I am not a young black man living in a rough neighbourhood I am unlikely to die in a street knife attack. However, mass-shooting can be anywhere: a bar, a synagogue, a school, a yoga class... and that seems pretty much like terrorism. I lived through IRA bomb attacks in the 90s and mass-shootings are much more analogous with those than knife attacks.
I don't why you had to bring race into this but okay. The problem with Mass Shootings in America is not with guns, it's with mental illness; if the guns are the real issue then how come there are no School/Mass Shootings in Switzerland, Serbia, Cyprus, Greece, Northern Ireland etc...? I think it's absolutely disgusting that whenever there's a new tragedy, people focus the blame on intimate objects and not the real issue.

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PostSubject: Re: Mass Shooting in California   Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:41 pm

We will probably know the manner of death for the suspect when the autopsy is completed.

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PostSubject: Re: Mass Shooting in California   Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:43 pm

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I lived through IRA bomb attacks in the 90s and mass-shootings are much more analogous with those than knife attacks.

Did you try banning bombs?

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PostSubject: Re: Mass Shooting in California   Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:56 pm

Ha ha, obviously bombs were banned but you know what we did do? We removed every rubbish bin from train stations so bombs couldn't be left there and blow us up. If there was a piece of unattended luggage, you would freak out, the police would come and the whole station would be evacuated (was in 2 evacuation before I was 10, thanks for funding the IRA Boston) and some poor fool's backpack would be safely blown up. So no, we didn't ban something that was already illegal but we did take action to reduce citizens' deaths.

If something happens repeatedly, you have to start looking at taking measures to stop people dying. Why is that so hard to see?
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PostSubject: Re: Mass Shooting in California   Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:07 pm

And oh yes, the "mental illness" is the issue. How about not letting people with mental illnesses that make them prone to violence and self-harm get hold of guns?
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PostSubject: Re: Mass Shooting in California   Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:10 pm

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And oh yes, the "mental illness" is the issue. How about not letting people with mental illnesses that make them prone to violence and self-harm get hold of guns?
How about we help people with mental illnesses and not let them suffer in silence?

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PostSubject: Re: Mass Shooting in California   Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:17 pm

Nobody is saying you can't have gun control AND help people with mental illness. It isn't mutually exclusive.

Perhaps the NRA could start a charity to fund PTSD clinics for veterans rather than lobbying politicians,?
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PostSubject: Re: Mass Shooting in California   Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:20 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I don't why you had to bring race into this but okay. The problem with Mass Shootings in America is not with guns, it's with mental illness; if the guns are the real issue then how come there are no School/Mass Shootings in Switzerland, Serbia, Cyprus, Greece, Northern Ireland etc...? I think it's absolutely disgusting that whenever there's a new tragedy, people focus the blame on intimate objects and not the real issue.

If guns are banned a person with mental illness will probably have hard times finding them. There’s a chance this idea will be dropped (even if the chance is small). In the US literally everyone who has a gun can just go to a mall and start shooting. When guns are so easy to obtain a bullied kid can start planning a massacre when there’s a gun in his father’s room. You say there are no shootings in Switzerland etc, but there’re also no shootings in other counties with stricter gun controls. And also the population is so much smaller in Switzerland than in the US.
It looks like almost everyone in the US has visited a psychologist at least once. It doesn’t look like people don’t pay any attention to mental issues. I’m not saying guns are responsible for killing, but if a person with mental illness can get a gun so easily it’s scary.
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PostSubject: Re: Mass Shooting in California   Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:36 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Nobody is saying you can't have gun control AND help people with mental illness. It isn't mutually exclusive.

Perhaps the NRA could start a charity to fund PTSD clinics for veterans rather than lobbying politicians,?
Or maybe David Hogg and the Marchforourlives kids could focus on mental health and not blame guns for everything?

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"I will become a serial killer, a mad killer. Why? Because I am frustrated and I do not want to die alone, because I have had a shitty life. I want to feel powerful and free just once."

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PostSubject: Re: Mass Shooting in California   Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:47 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I don't why you had to bring race into this but okay. The problem with Mass Shootings in America is not with guns, it's with mental illness; if the guns are the real issue then how come there are no School/Mass Shootings in Switzerland, Serbia, Cyprus, Greece, Northern Ireland etc...? I think it's absolutely disgusting that whenever there's a new tragedy, people focus the blame on intimate objects and not the real issue.

If guns are banned a person with mental illness will probably have hard times finding them. There’s a chance this idea will be dropped (even if the chance is small). In the US literally everyone who has a gun can just go to a mall and start shooting. When guns are so easy to obtain a bullied kid can start planning a massacre when there’s a gun in his father’s room. You say there are no shootings in Switzerland etc, but there’re also no shootings in other counties with stricter gun controls. And also the population is so much smaller in Switzerland than in the US.
It looks like almost everyone in the US has visited a psychologist at least once. It doesn’t look like people don’t pay any attention to mental issues. I’m not saying guns are responsible for killing, but if a person with mental illness can get a gun so easily it’s scary.
I can't even begin with how ridiculous this is.

1. If a person is determined to kill people, they're not going to abide by the law.
2. Not everyone in America has a gun, and it's not that easy to get one either.
3. A kid wouldn't be planning a massacre if the first place if he wasn't bullied.
4. Not every person in the US has visited a psychologist, considering mental health services in America are expensive.
5. Yes Switzerland has a smaller population than the US, but so does many other countries with strict gun laws yet anti gunners love point to them as examples.
6. A person with mental illness can also easily get a knife or a car, should we ban them as well?

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"I will become a serial killer, a mad killer. Why? Because I am frustrated and I do not want to die alone, because I have had a shitty life. I want to feel powerful and free just once."

-Richard Durn

"A beautiful environment can be the darkest hell if you have to experience it all alone."

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PostSubject: Re: Mass Shooting in California   Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:33 pm

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I can't even begin with how ridiculous this is.

1. If a person is determined to kill people, they're not going to abide by the law.
2. Not everyone in America has a gun, and it's not that easy to get one either.
3. A kid wouldn't be planning a massacre if the first place if he wasn't bullied.
4. Not every person in the US has visited a psychologist, considering mental health services in America are expensive.
5. Yes Switzerland has a smaller population than the US, but so does many other countries with strict gun laws yet anti gunners love point to them as examples.
6. A person with mental illness can also easily get a knife or a car, should we ban them as well?

I don’t think other countries pay more attention to mental issues. I’ve been working for insurance and I noticed that most people have at least 1 medical record from a psychologist/psychiatrist in the US.
Bullying is a common thing in every country, you won’t do anything with it. But the majority of school shootings happens in the US.
We are talking about mass shootings, one will not kill so many people with a knife.

Anyway, there’s no point in discussing that. We’ll just have to agree to disagree scratch
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PostSubject: Re: Mass Shooting in California   Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:16 pm

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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Nobody is saying you can't have gun control AND help people with mental illness. It isn't mutually exclusive.

Perhaps the NRA could start a charity to fund PTSD clinics for veterans rather than lobbying politicians,?
Or maybe David Hogg and the Marchforourlives kids could focus on mental health and not blame guns for everything?
I don't like to get involved in debates about gun control and won't really discuss my opinions on it but I agree with Tommy about mental illness and the lack of help made available to mentally sick teenagers. Unless a teen actually addresses their own problems, no one will ever really know about it because teenagers are notorious for hiding their suffering and not wanting to talk about their problems or even go to their parents or any authority figure for help.

When I started high school, every single student in 9th grade had to have a physical by the school doctor. During that physical, they didn't even address mental health whatsoever. And I'm wondering why they don't? The statistics are ridiculous when it comes to mental illness among teenagers. Something like 20%. If you take a school like Columbine that had roughly 2000 students, over 400 of them suffered from some kind of mental illness and I bet that Columbine did absolutely nothing to address mental health, just like every other high school in America. How come mental illness isn't addressed and why aren't students having routine mental health checks? Mental health is just as important, if not more important than physical health when you're talking about teenagers.

I mean, guns have always been there. Since the constitution, guns have been there. Guns are not the only problem. Taking away guns is not going to fix a mental illness epidemic among teenagers. And I believe that the root of every single one of these shootings is mental illness because people who are mentally sound, do not go and murder others and then commit suicide. How is just getting rid of guns going to help teenagers who are suffering from mental illness? It's ludicrous to me that all we ever hear about is guns. What about helping out teenagers who are sick and suffering?

That's just my 2 cents on it anyway.





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PostSubject: Re: Mass Shooting in California   Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:26 pm

Jenn, I entirely agree that mental health is an issue in young people, it is in the UK too. The problems that people uses it as an excuse not to discuss sensible gun control (I'm not even talking about banning guns, you can still legally own guns in the UK) and at the same time nobody comes up with any solutions to the mental health epidemic. How it would help trouble teenagers, is it would remove the means they have from killing dozens on classmates before they kill themselves. It would also make it harder for them to successfully kill themselves.

As someone who works with under 21s in the UK, I think it is very much linked to the pressure of the education systems and a lack of resilience built into the younger generation. It is not something that should be medicalised but something we need to work on as a society from a young age.
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PostSubject: Re: Mass Shooting in California   Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:49 pm

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Footage from inside the bar.

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PostSubject: Re: Mass Shooting in California   Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:10 am

I just don’t think there’s any type of therapy in this world to really help people who have so much anger for whatever reason on that particular day or week or month. It’s just not possible.

And He made a Facebook post.. In it, the writer says: "I hope people call me insane... (laughing emojis).. wouldn't that just be a big ball of irony? Yeah.. I'm insane, but the only thing you people do after these shootings is 'hopes and prayers'.. or 'keep you in my thoughts'... every time... and wonder why these keep happening..."

There was some type of an agenda in play. The friends he did have are shocked. Minor brush ins with law enforcement dont warrant to be taken away. What could have been done? I really don’t know. I don’t think anything. If somebody is hell bent on sending a message or getting revenge or doing damage, they are going to by any means possible.
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PostSubject: Re: Mass Shooting in California   Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:17 am

One of the victims mothers said exactly what he said in his Facebook post before he committed this act so in some weird and sick twisted way she’s backing up the shooters agenda.
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PostSubject: Re: Mass Shooting in California   Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:40 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Nobody is saying you can't have gun control AND help people with mental illness. It isn't mutually exclusive.

Perhaps the NRA could start a charity to fund PTSD clinics for veterans rather than lobbying politicians,?
Or maybe David Hogg and the Marchforourlives kids could focus on mental health and not blame guns for everything?

I don't like to get involved in debates about gun control and won't really discuss my opinions on it but I agree with Tommy about mental illness and the lack of help made available to mentally sick teenagers. Unless a teen actually addresses their own problems, no one will ever really know about it because teenagers are notorious for hiding their suffering and not wanting to talk about their problems or even go to their parents or any authority figure for help.

When I started high school, every single student in 9th grade had to have a physical by the school doctor. During that physical, they didn't even address mental health whatsoever. And I'm wondering why they don't? The statistics are ridiculous when it comes to mental illness among teenagers. Something like 20%. If you take a school like Columbine that had roughly 2000 students, over 400 of them suffered from some kind of mental illness and I bet that Columbine did absolutely nothing to address mental health, just like every other high school in America. How come mental illness isn't addressed and why aren't students having routine mental health checks? Mental health is just as important, if not more important than physical health when you're talking about teenagers.

I mean, guns have always been there. Since the constitution, guns have been there. Guns are not the only problem. Taking away guns is not going to fix a mental illness epidemic among teenagers. And I believe that the root of every single one of these shootings is mental illness because people who are mentally sound, do not go and murder others and then commit suicide. How is just getting rid of guns going to help teenagers who are suffering from mental illness? It's ludicrous to me that all we ever hear about is guns. What about helping out teenagers who are sick and suffering?

That's just my 2 cents on it anyway.



Couldn't have put it better myself. Addressing mental health in my opinion is only possible thing that can be done now with these types of things. People like to point out how American should change it's gun laws like England and Australia did but they completely forget about that Amercia's gun culture and lobbies is finitely 1000x more powerful and influential than compared to those in said countries, pro-gun control activists face a great up hill battle, it's just not going to work out for them. The first two american constitution amendments basically boil down to 1: You can talk, 2: You can own weapons, I know that's a very hyperbole and very basic way to put it but for America, it's pretty a core part of both their history and identity, no-one is going to be remove or limit that. Only rational thing to do now is to tackle this mental health epidemic properly.
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PostSubject: Re: Mass Shooting in California   Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:26 am

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THOUSAND OAKS, Calif. (AP) — Ian David Long began his adult life by enlisting in the Marines and getting married. Years after a divorce and a discharge and months after shouting brought a mental health expert to his door, Long killed 12 people at a country music bar outside Los Angeles.

Long, 28, was a former military machine gunner who apparently killed himself after the Wednesday night attack in Thousand Oaks, the quiet suburb where he lived with his mother.

Neighbors said Thursday they would hear loud, aggressive fights between the two. Authorities said they visited that ranch-style house only once, in April, after a neighbor reported yelling and crashing sounds.

Deputies found Long "was somewhat irate, acting a little irrationally" and called in a mental health specialist, Ventura County Sheriff Geoff Dean said. That specialist assessed Long but concluded he couldn't be involuntarily committed for psychiatric observation.

"The mental health experts out there cleared him that day," Dean told reporters Thursday, though they were concerned he might be suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder because of his military service.

"Obviously he had something going on in his head that would cause him to do something like this," Dean said.

A next-door neighbor said he called authorities about six months ago when he heard loud banging and shouting at Long's home.

"I was concerned because I knew he had been in the military," neighbor Tom Hanson said Thursday, as federal and local law enforcement officers searched Long's house, where an American flag flew over the garage.

Hanson described Long as an introvert and said he was "dumbfounded" by the massacre.

Long's only other contact with authorities came after a traffic collision and after he alleged he was the victim of a violent encounter in 2015 at another bar in Thousand Oaks, the sheriff said.

Long enlisted in the Marines at 18 and was married as a 19-year-old in Honolulu in June 2009, according to military and court records.

His military service lasted nearly five years, and he was honorably discharged with the rank of corporal in 2013, the Pentagon said. He was part of the infantry, responsible for hauling and shooting machine guns.


During his service, Long's marriage fell apart. He and his wife separated in June 2011, while he was deployed on a seven-month tour in Afghanistan. The couple cited irreconcilable differences in divorce papers filed in May 2013, two months after Long left the Marines.

Later, he enrolled at nearby California State University, Northridge, last attending in 2016, the school said in a statement.

More recently he was living in a home where neighbors said they could hear frequent, aggressive shouting between Long and his mother, especially over the last year.

About 18 months ago, Don and Effie MacLeod heard "an awful argument" and what he believes was a gunshot from the Longs' property. Don MacLeod said he did not call police but avoided speaking with Ian Long.

"I told my wife, 'Just be polite to him. If he talks, just acknowledge him, don't go into conversation with him,'" Don MacLeod said Thursday.

Sparse pictures on social media showed a happy Long family. His mother, Colleen, posted Facebook photos of her son in his military uniform in 2010 and 2011.

"My Son is home, well sort of, back in Hawaii, soon to be in Cali come January, hooray!" she wrote on Dec. 14, 2012.

Another photo from 2014 shows Ian Long with his arm draped around his mother in front of Dodger Stadium. The two were wearing Dodgers T-shirts and smiles.

Authorities haven't identified what motivated Long to open fire during college night at Borderline Bar & Grill in Thousand Oaks, around 40 miles from downtown Los Angeles. The city of about 130,000 people is consistently near the top of lists ranking the safest places in California.

The dead included 11 people inside the bar and a veteran sheriff's sergeant who was the first officer through the door.

The Marine Corps said Long earned several awards, including a Combat Action Ribbon and a Marine Corps Good Conduct Medal. He was assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 3rd Marine Regiment, Third Marine Division in Kaneohe Bay, Hawaii.




It's clear he was struggling with something. Maybe it was PTSD or something else, or PTSD AND something else. scratch

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PostSubject: Re: Mass Shooting in California   Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:32 am

That specialist assessed Long but concluded he couldn't be involuntarily committed for psychiatric observation

Another one where this should have happened. Maybe we need to look at this and see if there is any way to improve. Just how erratic can you act before a mental health intervention of sorts is appropriate? It a funny area though because allot of people may just be having a bad time but are of no threat. However when you look at someone like Cruz it seems the leash may be way too long.

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PostSubject: Re: Mass Shooting in California   Fri Nov 09, 2018 11:49 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
That specialist assessed Long but concluded he couldn't be involuntarily committed for psychiatric observation

Another one where this should have happened. Maybe we need to look at this and see if there is any way to improve. Just how erratic can you act before a mental health intervention of sorts is appropriate? It a funny area though because allot of people may just be having a bad time but are of no threat. However when you look at someone like Cruz it seems the leash may be way too long.



True. It is a very fine line to walk for sure trying to decide if someone is only having a temporary anger induced meltdown, or the problem is something much darker and deeper rooted.

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PostSubject: Re: Mass Shooting in California   Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:01 pm

That’s a question I don’t see brought up. How do you differentiate between people having a momentary anger issue and someone who has a very deep seated range that will explode into something catastrophic

Also not everyone lashes out like an Eric, a lot of times you have someone like Dylan who’s been angry years and explodes

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