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 For those who say Eric and Dylan did it because of bullying....

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Screamingophelia
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PostSubject: Re: For those who say Eric and Dylan did it because of bullying....   Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:06 am

I’m pretty sure the jock hat was on the show intervention admitted that he bullied them. I think he graduated in 1998.

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PostSubject: Re: For those who say Eric and Dylan did it because of bullying....   Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:58 pm

You're 100% right.

There was a time, however, when Kathy thought of her son as the perfect child and the love of her life. As a student at Columbine High School, Jason was a star athlete who ran with the "cool" crowd. Though he experimented with marijuana and cocaine during his teenage years, his downward spiral didn't begin until 10 months after he finished his senior year of high school.

On April 20, 1999, students Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold embarked on a massacre at Jason's high school. Twelve of his former classmates and one teacher were murdered during this cold, calculated attack.

"A big reason for their rebellion was because of the jocks in '98, saying that we picked on them and that we were bullies," Jason said. "I know I was a bully in high school."

Wracked with sadness, shame and guilt, Jason amped up his drug use and sank deeper into addiction.



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PostSubject: Re: For those who say Eric and Dylan did it because of bullying....   Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:14 pm

Yeah my sister has said there definitely was bullying. She was the class of 2000 and a varsity cheer/pom. She doesnt believe the ketchup tampon incident happened but that it was two incidents combined and amplified that turned into that rumor. She also said the worst bullies who did the most egregious stuff were definitely Rocky and his gang who graduated in 98 but there was still pretty bad bullying after just nothing nearly as bad as before.
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PostSubject: Re: For those who say Eric and Dylan did it because of bullying....   Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:54 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Why didn't Eric and Dylans bullies ever come out and apologize for bullying them?

Because...they're bullies?  Neutral

Most likely because they didn't want to put some of the spotlight on themselves after the shooting, as bullying came to be one of the reasons why the shooting even happened. In the 11k document some of them said they didn't remember Eric or Dylan and never had direct contact which I believe is complete and utter BS.

My guesses are: They bullied everyone and maybe forgot their faces (I think this is unlikely though) and they were and still are just protecting themselves and all the horrible bullying that they did and straight up just lied to law enforcement to look like sweet angels.

One jock did admit to being a bully but I'm not sure if he apologised for it.
Well, it would've been nice you know to see them matured and accept part of the blame too. You're probably right though cowards usually do protect themselves and don't want to come out in the open.
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PostSubject: Re: For those who say Eric and Dylan did it because of bullying....   Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:09 pm

I also think because in the aftermath things got really nasty. With all the lawsuits and pointing fingers. I think that shut a lot of people up, not just from admitting/apologizing for being bullies but anything else that could somehow be misconstrued as being partially to blame and/or knowing anything about the attack before hand. My sister said she didn't talk about knowing Eric for a long time after because if you said anything slightly nice about them around most other students you were attacked pretty bad.
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PostSubject: Re: For those who say Eric and Dylan did it because of bullying....   Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:04 pm

I get a sense that people who knew and liked Dylan are more comfortable with talking about him in a more positive light. I rarely hear anything from people who had a good experience with Eric but we know they existed.

It is almost like Dylan was the boy who went astray, could have been anyone's son or friend and Eric was the big bad who dragged Dylan down.

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PostSubject: Re: For those who say Eric and Dylan did it because of bullying....   Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:24 am

I wonder if that is because Dylan was more well-liked, he was a local boy and his friends started the "Dylan was the follower" narrative early on?
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PostSubject: velsasdfasdf   Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:24 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I wonder if that is because Dylan was more well-liked, he was a local boy and his friends started the "Dylan was the follower" narrative early on?

For the record Brooks Brown said it on camera right after the massacre. That was perhaps the beginning of "Dylan the sidekick."
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PostSubject: Re: For those who say Eric and Dylan did it because of bullying....   Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:29 am

Here is the reason Columbine was a toxic environment for anyone who looked different and was totally unfair.

“Evan Todd, the 255-lb. defensive lineman who was wounded in the library, describes the climate this way: “Columbine is a clean, good place except for those rejects,” Todd says of Klebold, Harris and their friends. “Most kids didn’t want them there. They were into witchcraft. They were into voodoo dolls. Sure, we teased them. But what do you expect with kids who come to school with weird hairdos and horns on their hats? It’s not just jocks; the whole school’s disgusted with them. They’re a bunch of homos, grabbing each other’s private parts. If you want to get rid of someone, usually you tease’ em. So the whole school would call them homos, and when they did something sick, we’d tell them, ‘You’re sick and that’s wrong.'””
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PostSubject: Re: For those who say Eric and Dylan did it because of bullying....   Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:30 am

Now can anyone really defend a piece of sh** like that?
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PostSubject: Re: For those who say Eric and Dylan did it because of bullying....   Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:30 am

Whenever I read Dave cullen I see red.
Saying E&D were not bullied is like saying "Columbine was full of flowers and rainbows E&D did this because they were bored." I wish ppl would excuse me for the word not bullshit themselves believing cullen and media informations like they were gay, they did it on April 20 because of Hitlers.
birthday .
They planned the attack for April 19! but were late because their gear arrived late.

An eyewitness saw Eric being picked on & heard Eric saying "I swear someday I'll do it." I think the bullying played the part in the shooting. Other Was mental health. I wish ppl would finally open their eyes on that instead of gun control. Gun control would only reduce shootings.
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PostSubject: Re: For those who say Eric and Dylan did it because of bullying....   Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:03 am

What is wrong with reducing shootings? Surely that is a good start?
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PostSubject: Re: For those who say Eric and Dylan did it because of bullying....   Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:21 am

@Pixie13 wrote:
What is wrong with reducing shootings? Surely that is a good start?


I actually think that Rebbie likely meant that gun control would only REDUCE shootings, and NOT STOP them completely. Meaning that the main focus being on the weapon is missing out on SO much more that would have a greater effect on the issue. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: For those who say Eric and Dylan did it because of bullying....   Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:09 am

ShadowedGoddess wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
What is wrong with reducing shootings? Surely that is a good start?


I actually think that Rebbie likely meant that gun control would only REDUCE shootings, and NOT STOP them completely. Meaning that the main focus being on the weapon is missing out on SO much more that would have a greater effect on the issue. Smile

And maybe also that while shootings might go down, besides guns there are a million other ways to kill people and someone who is motivated will unfortunately find the means.
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PostSubject: Re: For those who say Eric and Dylan did it because of bullying....   Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:13 am

@thelmar wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:
@Pixie13 wrote:
What is wrong with reducing shootings? Surely that is a good start?


I actually think that Rebbie likely meant that gun control would only REDUCE shootings, and NOT STOP them completely. Meaning that the main focus being on the weapon is missing out on SO much more that would have a greater effect on the issue. Smile

And maybe also that while shootings might go down, besides guns there are a million other ways to kill people and someone who is motivated will unfortunately find the means.


Very true indeed. Where there's a will there's a way. Until everyone wants to focus on what makes someone SO willing to do such things then their choice of weapon is just secondary in my opinion.
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PostSubject: Re: For those who say Eric and Dylan did it because of bullying....   Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:55 am

Isn't it obvious? They did it because they had self-awareness, not due to something as petty as revenge.

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PostSubject: Re: For those who say Eric and Dylan did it because of bullying....   Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:02 pm

ShadowedGoddess wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
What is wrong with reducing shootings? Surely that is a good start?


I actually think that Rebbie likely meant that gun control would only REDUCE shootings, and NOT STOP them completely. Meaning that the main focus being on the weapon is missing out on SO much more that would have a greater effect on the issue. Smile

And maybe also that while shootings might go down, besides guns there are a million other ways to kill people and someone who is motivated will unfortunately find the means.


Very true indeed. Where there's a will there's a way. Until everyone wants to focus on what makes someone SO willing to do such things then their choice of weapon is just secondary in my opinion.  

The problem is that what makes someone want to kill a bunch of people then themselves is almost impossible to determine. I've sort of mentioned it before but there were other kids at Columbine who were more "at-risk" than Eric and Dylan, yet they never took up arms.

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PostSubject: Re: For those who say Eric and Dylan did it because of bullying....   Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:20 pm

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PostSubject: Re: For those who say Eric and Dylan did it because of bullying....   Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:25 pm

Eric had access to mental healthcare though, didn't he? He also tried killing people with bombs, remind me how that went...
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PostSubject: Re: For those who say Eric and Dylan did it because of bullying....   Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:25 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Eric had access to mental healthcare though, didn't he? He also tried killing people with bombs, remind me how that went...
Eric Harris' incompetence at bomb making doesn't mean bombs can't easily be made with easily sourced ingredients. The Tsarnaev brothers, Ted Kaczsynski, Anders Breivik, Ramzi Yousef, and Timothy McVeigh are proof of that. Eric's mistake was thinking that gas canisters, which are specifically designed with consumer safety in mind, are like red barrels in video games. The fact of the matter is, mentally ill people who are intent on killing their fellow citizens will find a way to do it, whether you remove the option of firearms from them or not. Although, even when you do that, they can just illegally acquire firearms, like Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold did.
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PostSubject: Re: For those who say Eric and Dylan did it because of bullying....   Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:59 am

I think Columbine was different than shootings like Sandy Hook and Parkland, I believe gun control (such as limiting firearm sales to cognitively impaired individuals with warning signs) might have made a bigger impact there. Of course there's other reasons, but the killers there slipped through the cracks in very very different ways than Eric and Dylan. I don't think gun control would have had much of an impact on Columbine, there were very different factors at play. But just because it doesn't apply to Columbine doesn't mean I'm totally against it or think it wouldn't help in other respects (I'm not anti gun, I'm from a military family but I do support things like requiring locks around young children, etc.) I also think you can be in favor of one approach while recognizing it's not mutually exclusive. The thing with Columbine was people didn't just latch on to a single cause they did so vehemently and to the exclusion of anything else.
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PostSubject: Re: For those who say Eric and Dylan did it because of bullying....   Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:41 am

Of course *some* people will find another way, but it is like saying you don't wear a seatbelt as it only reduces your chance of dying, it doesn't prevent car accident. Making good bombs is hard and more detectable, they are unlikely to be used by kids to kill other kids.
As I said before, mental health/bullying/isolation is a factor that needs to be looked at too but there needs to be multiple interventions including gun control to help tackle these shootings.
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PostSubject: Re: For those who say Eric and Dylan did it because of bullying....   Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:21 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Of course *some* people will find another way, but it is like saying you don't wear a seatbelt as it only reduces your chance of dying, it doesn't prevent car accident. Making good bombs is hard and more detectable, they are unlikely to be used by kids to kill other kids.
As I said before, mental health/bullying/isolation is a factor that needs to be looked at too but there needs to be multiple interventions including gun control to help tackle these shootings.
The metaphor is a false equivalence, since we're not talking about seat belts, but vehicular manslaughter. We already have laws about safe driving and roadblocks to acquiring a license, and yet people still kill with cars, accidentally and deliberately. We're already talking about those "some people" who are intent on mass murder, not your average person. Since they're intent on committing a crime, it stands to reason that the exclusion of one method would simply push them to another, like mass stabbings, truck attacks, or explosives. That's precisely what happened in Australia after we implemented the 1996 NFA (murder rate continued on the same trend, gun deaths decreased, hangings and knife-related deaths skyrocketed), while New Zealand remains a safe haven from shootings, despite their ability to easily acquire semiautomatic firearms, and even fully automatic rifles. In fact, the last mass shooting they had was in 2014, while Australia's latest was in May (which isn't to mention that man who built a car bomb and went on a stabbing spree recently).

In regards to bombs, Vladislav Roslyakov, a teenager, built ten homemade explosives and detonated two of them to devastating effect. There's nothing to say that he was a uniquely talented or a brilliant mind, and there are countless guides on how to make explosive devices from home ingredients, which any sufficiently motivated teenager could access and follow if they chose. I'd argue that it's far harder for a minor to acquire a firearm and ammunition than it is for them to build explosives, but even then firearms can be built with basic tools and materials from any hardware store. Criminal gangs in this country do it all the time, and the blueprints are out there for anyone to read.

America's problem isn't firearms, it's criminals who'd kill people with whatever they could get their hands on. Every country has them, it's just that the American culture has promoted schools over other targets through decades of mass media coverage. School massacres, firearms or not, are a cultural problem which is almost uniquely American. Even the European school shooters, like the aforementioned Vladislav Roslyakov, are directly inspired by Americans such as Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold.
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PostSubject: Re: For those who say Eric and Dylan did it because of bullying....   Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:01 am

Why can't we write legislation at the federal level dealing with gun safety, bullying and mental health at the same time?
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PostSubject: Re: For those who say Eric and Dylan did it because of bullying....   Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:06 am

Imagine if all of us on this forum were in a room together, we could probably come up with better ideas on how to tackle guns, bullying and mental illness rather than the clowns we have in congress and the oval office now.
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PostSubject: Re: For those who say Eric and Dylan did it because of bullying....   Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:09 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Why can't we write legislation at the federal level dealing with gun safety, bullying and mental health at the same time?

But what would that do? Even if we had the "perfect" system for helping people mentally, stopping bullying, and limiting guns among civilians, those who want to harm others will do so.

As referenced above.... People like Elliot Rodger for example. Yes he had guns but he stabbed people and ran them over in addition to that. Take guns out of these equations never works

Also for mental help- it cannot be forced. You force someone that doesn't want help to see a therapist or take meds and they push back even more. I think Eric's therapist was terrible but putting that aside, Eric obviously didn't want the help. He lied his way thru and his therapist was none the wiser.

Laws only help those that will follow them. People who want to commit murder don't see to care about laws.... being that they are killing people which is already against the law

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PostSubject: Re: For those who say Eric and Dylan did it because of bullying....   Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:27 am

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Also for mental help- it cannot be forced.  You force someone that doesn't want help to see a therapist or take meds and they push back even more.  I think Eric's therapist was terrible but putting that aside, Eric obviously didn't want the help.  He lied his way thru and his therapist was none the wiser.  

Same with Dylan. He needed help and he refused. Sue even said if they forced him to go Dylan would have been capable of sitting in silence the whole time

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PostSubject: Re: For those who say Eric and Dylan did it because of bullying....   Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:27 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Why can't we write legislation at the federal level dealing with gun safety, bullying and mental health at the same time?

Political tunnel vision. Everyone wants to focus on one cause over another.

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PostSubject: Re: For those who say Eric and Dylan did it because of bullying....   Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:37 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Erics psychologist was another armchair psychologist look up Dr. Kevin Albert I recommend you to read the ratings.. You have to pay for the records about your
your child. If that's not a red flag? If he has bad ratings now, how was it going with the past?
I think Eric simply gave up. He really wanted help. But not the way he got. I'm not surprised that the harris were questioning Dr. Alberts work.

Some of his patients say that He plays mind games with his clients. I bet he did the same with the harris.
He also has connections in the Jefferson County Court system.
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PostSubject: Re: For those who say Eric and Dylan did it because of bullying....   Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:58 pm

@Screamingophelia wrote:
@Lizpuff wrote:


Also for mental help- it cannot be forced.  You force someone that doesn't want help to see a therapist or take meds and they push back even more.  I think Eric's therapist was terrible but putting that aside, Eric obviously didn't want the help.  He lied his way thru and his therapist was none the wiser.  

Same with Dylan. He needed help and he refused. Sue even said if they forced him to go Dylan would have been  capable of sitting in silence the whole time

@Screamingophelia  Very true. If someone doesn't want help then there is nothing you can really do. Its not like you can force them to get help. You can beg and cry, but if they still see nothing wrong with themselves, their actions,  or truly don't want to change then that's just it. No
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