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 Why did everyone ignore the bullying

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sassy-shamrocks



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PostSubject: Why did everyone ignore the bullying   Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:19 pm

Why did everyone ignore the bullying,after the incident jocks were seen giving interviews saying they had done the things but Dave Cullen says he can see no evidence of this,
Called a fag daily, oh thats normal? Shoved in halls? Pelted with garbage? Doused with Ketchup?
Am i missing the point?

Im new to here but ive been researching columbine for years.
Im not a mathematical genius but a lot of things about this entire case dont add up.
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PostSubject: Re: Why did everyone ignore the bullying   Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:49 pm

I think the reason was because the School celebrated the athlete culture, and jocks were allowed to do whatever they wanted which included bullying others; there's also the fact that most schools don't really care about students being bullied, they see it as "normal", mine was the same.

This video explains it better:


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PostSubject: Re: Why did everyone ignore the bullying   Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:18 pm

Thanks for yor reply, i totally understand that, i was bullied at school cos i didnt fit in "thankfully cos they were the epitome of followers " but Dave Cullen writes a book and publicly states he seen no reasons how bullying could have been as bad as they say. But how so? When Brooks says it, the parents of at least one victim has said it and students have said it.This aint any mandela effect, its all there .The schools in America care more about tropheys than the mental health of their students,more about drugging up their kids to hide the truths so society dosnt judge them for THEIR ACTIONS.
Two additional victims that day were Eric and Dylan, who have both since been diagnosed with mental health illness , something the world is trying to remove stigma from. The parents of these boys cant even stand beside a grave and weep, they were just kids aswell.
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PostSubject: Re: Why did everyone ignore the bullying   Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:57 pm

Here's why they ignore the bullying. It's because the jocks who play on the sports teams bring in money for that certain school if they win games, etc. The jocks can't be expected to play by the same rules, because they bring the money in. Now tell me if I'm wrong, but I think that's the majority of reason why jocks can get away with a lot of crap.
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PostSubject: Re: Why did everyone ignore the bullying   Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:58 pm

In other words, you're right they care more about trophies than the kids mental health.
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PostSubject: Re: Why did everyone ignore the bullying   Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:11 am

They didn't ignore the bullying, they let it happen. It's not that they didn't care about the kids at the bottom of the social hierarchy, they probably hated them just as much as every jackass jock or crusading Christian evangelical.

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PostSubject: Re: Why did everyone ignore the bullying   Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:21 am

Sorry but I just can't sympathize with someone getting bullied who worshipped the biggest bully in the history of the human race (Hitler). And no, being picked on by jocks doesn't make you love Hitler. Yes bulling def played a role and helped drive both to the breaking point. And the school had ample warning signs to prevent the shootings. BUT Eric especially was rotten at the core from the start.

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PostSubject: Re: Why did everyone ignore the bullying   Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:20 am

r
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
They didn't ignore the bullying, they let it happen. It's not that they didn't care about the kids at the bottom of the social hierarchy, they probably hated them just as much as every jackass jock or crusading Christian evangelical.
ask millenial, she basically confirmed their was still some bullying going at Columbine when she was there.
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PostSubject: Re: Why did everyone ignore the bullying   Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:36 pm

I dont condone anyone who murders either, but the point im making is they were victims too. The parents of both Eric and Dylan got up for work one day, with honor student sons, both working towards adulthood with nothing at all that gave the impression that that day would be any different. The next day their sons are dead after a murder suicide,killing 13 people and leaving behind hate disgust and anguish aimed at them from the world. Somebodys son,grandson uncle brother nephew, someones whole world. Many a soldier killed on active duty who has been responsible for the deaths of multiple innocent people, women children,all nameless dead victims caught up in war.but them killers are heros? George bush was bombing the shit out of innocent people,he will get a state funeral no doubt. We live in a hypocritical world, which is sick to its core Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Why did everyone ignore the bullying   Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:21 am

I don't think anybody ignored the bullying. I think the bullying is an overplayed aspect of the shooting, both boys were damaged goods as it stood.
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PostSubject: Re: Why did everyone ignore the bullying   Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:53 pm

What else do you expect from a rich, preppy stuck up school like Columbine?
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PostSubject: Re: Why did everyone ignore the bullying   Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:50 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
BUT Eric especially was rotten at the core from the start.

I cant agree with this. I dont think either boy was rotten from the start. Look at esp Eric's past and read what his old friends had to say about him. Look at what people at Columbine said about him prior to 1998. it is the opposite

I don't think any person is born bad. I don't think you can take 2 babies and pick which one will be a serial killer and which will be Mother Teresa. It isn't possible

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PostSubject: Re: Why did everyone ignore the bullying   Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:28 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
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BUT Eric especially was rotten at the core from the start.

I cant agree with this.  I dont think either boy was rotten from the start.  Look at esp Eric's past and re
ad what his old friends had to say about him.  Look at what people at Columbine said about him prior to 1998.  it is the opposite

I don't think any person is born bad.  I don't think you can take 2 babies and pick which one will be a serial killer and which will be Mother Teresa.  It isn't possible

The Eric before moving to Littleton is a really different person by all accounts. He changed a lot in HS.

I think in some ways Eric could have been helped more than Dylan, that is, if he was being honest in his sessions etc.. I don't know that Dylan was too far gone, it's just that I don't believe Dylan would have opened up. Just like Sue said, even if he was forced to go to counseling, he would have been able to sit their silently for an hour with no problem.

There was the interview with one of Eric's friends from Plattsburgh. They kept in touch up until the end, she knew about the van break in and everything. The day it happened she was so worried about Eric and then her father had to tell her that Eric was the one doing it and she was shocked.




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PostSubject: Re: Why did everyone ignore the bullying   Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:23 am

Let's not forget that Eric and Dylan bullied kids too. People who get bullied usually bully others to make themselves feel better about themselves, it always goes full circle. I saw this first hand in high school. They weren't these poor innocent kids who didn't bother a soul. There is still a debate about how bad the bullying was, and from my research although they were bullied, it wasn't as bad as it is made out to be. People weren't waiting by their cars to beat them up every single day like some people try to claim.
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PostSubject: Re: Why did everyone ignore the bullying   Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:47 am

I agree with Sue when she talks about how Eric and Dylan bullied people and how they were bully victims. I was really badly bullied so I was a bit of an ass to people after a while, I was hoping they would leave me alone.. The other problem was when I finally faught back I got into trouble for it, Nothing was done to the people who bullied me. So, damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

But you do get to a point where you’re bullied so much that you tend not to care anymore about how you treat people. The crazy thing is that they became the ultimate bullies at the end. But what’s interesting is the people I’ve spoken to still hate Rocky. Anyone who knew rocky are like “what Eric and Dylan did was monstrous but that Rocky was awful too...”

Also, I think when you look at bullying you have to realize that it affects people differently. What some people might be able to brush off their shoulders can make someone else really angry or hurt. You just don’t know.

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PostSubject: Re: Why did everyone ignore the bullying   Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:02 pm

The one thing that annoys me over anything else is when I’ve heard and read “oh I didn’t know them and I never met them or saw them before but I know they definitely were not bulied” Like then how could you know...

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PostSubject: Re: Why did everyone ignore the bullying   Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:26 pm

Yeah as of when I graduated from Columbine, 2010, there was bullying. It was worse than the school I transferred from but I dont know how much that has to do with demographics (my school in Hawai'i was the poorest in the state, and in Hawai'i that's saying something, and it was also 100% minority compared to wealthy or at least upper middle class, white Columbine) than it specifically being a Columbine thing. However when I was there the administration really seemed to be trying to stay on top of it as much as adults can at a high school. They were working on changing the culture with things like A Day Without Hate, Mr. D and the deans were always in the hallway during passing periods and made a huge effort to be at all school events, not just sports games, but everything from plays to concerts to chess tournaments. Also there was a zero tolerance policy I saw enforced pretty across the board. A few guys some of who were on the varsity football and basketball team got caught with a website ranking girls sexually my junior year, they were all suspended and kicked off their respective teams permanently. Mr. D if anything was harder on the top athletes.

My sister said my experience was very different than pre shooting Columbine. She said the most awful stuff was thanks to Rocky and his cronies and had ended when they graduated in 1998, but even up until the shooting there was the run of the mill snobby suburban bullying going on. She loves Mr. D but thinks he was blindsided, it's not that he was ignorant but kids put their best face on in front of him and hes the kind of guy who sees the best in everyone, even after the shooting. She said a couple coaches knew what was going on but turned a blind eye because it was their athletes, but otherwise the admin was just naive and didnt dig much past what the student body showed when they were around. That definitely changed post shooting.

She also said it's not accurate that Eric (and by extension Dylan) were solely victims of bullying. My sister didnt know Dylan well but she knew Eric and him and his friends gave as good as they got.

(Sorry I've been MIA everyone! Pneumonia right in time for back to school sucks!)
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PostSubject: Re: Why did everyone ignore the bullying   Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:47 pm

Welcome back!! I was hoping everything was OK. Are you feeling any better??

I am definitely suspicious of people who think that they didn’t do their share of bullying and being jerks. However, I don’t discount the fact that bullying could’ve contributed to them feeling angry etc..

Of course no amount of bullying condones what they did Sad

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PostSubject: Re: Why did everyone ignore the bullying   Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:06 pm

Yes, I mean why wouldn't Eric and Dylan just kill their bullies?
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PostSubject: Re: Why did everyone ignore the bullying   Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:10 pm

Slightly! I had to switch the antibiotics that I was on, so even though I've been sick since Christmas I'm just now feeling better.

On the bright side, when I lost/barely had my voice, I work with Deaf/HoH kiddos now so that's way less of an issue.

But I completely agree with you, I'd never defend bullying, and I believe Eric and Dylan did experience their fair share of it, but they also bullied others just as much. And no amount of bullying rationalizes what they did, especially when you look at who was killed and injured. (Not that I believe they would have been in the right if they targeted Rockys brother and som some of the worst of the Jocks, but it's especially cruel they killed a mentally challenged boy, and a bunch of kids studying alone in the library during lunch, some were new, some just quiet without many friends. Then Rachel of course. I barely remember her, she was my favorite babysitter the few times my sister wasnt available, and was the nicest to me out of all of her friends. And she would have given them the time of day if theyd let her. All that just makes it even worse.)
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PostSubject: Re: Why did everyone ignore the bullying   Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:16 pm

None of this had to happen and that's what it makes it so sad. If only Eric and Dylan got help and if only the school took the bullying allegations seriously and how it was hurting their students emotionally and physically.
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PostSubject: Re: Why did everyone ignore the bullying   Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:18 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Slightly! I had to switch the antibiotics that I was on, so even though I've been sick since Christmas I'm just now feeling better.

On the bright side, when I lost/barely had my voice, I work with Deaf/HoH kiddos now so that's way less of an issue.

But I completely agree with you, I'd never defend bullying, and I believe Eric and Dylan did experience their fair share of it, but they also bullied others just as much. And no amount of bullying rationalizes what they did, especially when you look at who was killed and injured. (Not that I believe they would have been in the right if they targeted Rockys brother and som some of the worst of the Jocks, but it's especially cruel they killed a mentally challenged boy, and a bunch of kids studying alone in the library during lunch, some were new, some just quiet without many friends. Then Rachel of course. I barely remember her, she was my favorite babysitter the few times my sister wasnt available, and was the nicest to me out of all of her friends. And she would have given them the time of day if theyd let her. All that just makes it even worse.)


I think that’s something Devon said about Rachel too in an interview. That she would have been really accepting and kind to them... none of it makes sense Sad

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PostSubject: Re: Why did everyone ignore the bullying   Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:20 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
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Slightly! I had to switch the antibiotics that I was on, so even though I've been sick since Christmas I'm just now feeling better.

On the bright side, when I lost/barely had my voice, I work with Deaf/HoH kiddos now so that's way less of an issue.

But I completely agree with you, I'd never defend bullying, and I believe Eric and Dylan did experience their fair share of it, but they also bullied others just as much. And no amount of bullying rationalizes what they did, especially when you look at who was killed and injured. (Not that I believe they would have been in the right if they targeted Rockys brother and som some of the worst of the Jocks, but it's especially cruel they killed a mentally challenged boy, and a bunch of kids studying alone in the library during lunch, some were new, some just quiet without many friends. Then Rachel of course. I barely remember her, she was my favorite babysitter the few times my sister wasnt available, and was the nicest to me out of all of her friends. And she would have given them the time of day if theyd let her. All that just makes it even worse.)


I think that’s something Devon said about Rachel too in an interview. That she would have been really accepting and kind to them... none of it makes sense  Sad
True. I just wish everyone would treat one another with kindness in high school, but I know that doesn't happen.
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PostSubject: Re: Why did everyone ignore the bullying   Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:24 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Slightly! I had to switch the antibiotics that I was on, so even though I've been sick since Christmas I'm just now feeling better.

On the bright side, when I lost/barely had my voice, I work with Deaf/HoH kiddos now so that's way less of an issue.

But I completely agree with you, I'd never defend bullying, and I believe Eric and Dylan did experience their fair share of it, but they also bullied others just as much. And no amount of bullying rationalizes what they did, especially when you look at who was killed and injured. (Not that I believe they would have been in the right if they targeted Rockys brother and som some of the worst of the Jocks, but it's especially cruel they killed a mentally challenged boy, and a bunch of kids studying alone in the library during lunch, some were new, some just quiet without many friends. Then Rachel of course. I barely remember her, she was my favorite babysitter the few times my sister wasnt available, and was the nicest to me out of all of her friends. And she would have given them the time of day if theyd let her. All that just makes it even worse.)


I think that’s something Devon said about Rachel too in an interview. That she would have been really accepting and kind to them... none of it makes sense  Sad
True. I just wish everyone would treat one another with kindness in high school, but I know that doesn't happen.

I wish this was true for all life! I try to live my own life this way but unfortunately it isnt how life works. Not everyone sees it this way

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PostSubject: Re: Why did everyone ignore the bullying   Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:36 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Yes, I mean why wouldn't Eric and Dylan just kill their bullies?
Because they wanted to kill the whole school, they hated the other students for defending them, they hated the teachers for not doing anything about it and actually worshipped the whole jock culture, and they hated the school because that was the environment where they were tormented.

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PostSubject: Re: Why did everyone ignore the bullying   Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:51 pm

I wonder if their parents knew about the bullying? I woud think they would take them out of Columbine and be transfered somewhere else. Of course Wayne Harris would've been embarrassed and told his son to be like a man or something like that since he was in the military.
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PostSubject: Re: Why did everyone ignore the bullying   Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:30 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I wonder if their parents knew about the bullying? I woud think they would take them out of Columbine and be transfered somewhere else. Of course Wayne Harris would've been embarrassed and told his son to be like a man or something like that since he was in the military.

Dylan told his parents he wasn't picked on because he was tall but he did tell them that Eric was picked on

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PostSubject: Re: Why did everyone ignore the bullying   Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:14 pm

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Yes, I mean why wouldn't Eric and Dylan just kill their bullies?
Because they wanted to kill the whole school, they hated the other students for defending them, they hated the teachers for not doing anything about it and actually worshipped the whole jock culture, and they hated the school because that was the environment where they were tormented.

See this is the problem with the whole "bullying directly and solely caused Columbine" narrative. You get these blatantly incorrect assumptions in order to make the narrative fit what actually happened.

Very few teachers were sports coaches, the football coach wasnt even a regular teacher. More teachers were advisers for drama and speech and debate and clubs like that.

The majority of the student body did not condone or support the bullying, in fact more people were bullied than anything else.

So no that's not why they hated everyone. They had serious anger issues that went far far beyond bullying.
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PostSubject: Re: Why did everyone ignore the bullying   Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:39 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
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Yes, I mean why wouldn't Eric and Dylan just kill their bullies?
Because they wanted to kill the whole school, they hated the other students for defending them, they hated the teachers for not doing anything about it and actually worshipped the whole jock culture, and they hated the school because that was the environment where they were tormented.

See this is the problem with the whole "bullying directly and solely caused Columbine" narrative. You get these blatantly incorrect assumptions in order to make the narrative fit what actually happened.

Very few teachers were sports coaches, the football coach wasnt even a regular teacher. More teachers were advisers for drama and speech and debate and clubs like that.

The majority of the student body did not condone or support the bullying, in fact more people were bullied than anything else.

So no that's not why they hated everyone. They had serious anger issues that went far far beyond bullying.
I never said bullying was the sole motive, I think it was a major fact yes, but there was obviously other reasons, I'm just trying to understand why they would specifically target the school and not a police station or a mall.

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Screamingophelia
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PostSubject: Re: Why did everyone ignore the bullying   Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:45 pm

I didn’t go to Columbine but I think my school was pretty similar in many ways I think. I was badly bullied and honestly it’s hard sometimes to have empathy for their bullying because while I think bad things happened they did have some bright spots other kids didn’t... hence why mental health etc.. has to be looked at.

Regardless of what I went through compared to them I feel like I always have empathy for kids who were so angry they feel like the only way to be heard is to commit this kind of violence.

I think from what I’ve heard about their bullying I had it worse and I had literally no friends. However, I’m not them. There were MANY other factors in play. We also don’t know what the day to day family life was like and how they perceived it.

Like with Byron, Dylan perceived him as being mean and someone who disliked him.. Byron probably saw it as being a typical older brother.

A few things I think were in play were At that time there wasn’t nationwide anti-bullying campaigns. A lot of times you were told to get over it, it roll off your back. Heaven forbid if you were a girl and a guy was mean to you you were told oh he has a crush.... I’m sure a lot of kids were told those things.

I’m someone who thinks it was the perfect storm. I think there are a lot of different factors hence while I’m not crazy about Brooks i think the title of his book is perfect

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