Questions about the victims?

Guest

I just happened to see the pic from the funeral of Daniel Mauser. He is wearing his glasses in the casket. Does anyone know if those are the same glasses he was wearing when he was shot, the ones Eric made the infamous "nice glasses" comment about?

Guest

Does anyone out there know of famous (or semi-famous) relatives of any of the victims (those killed or injured) at Columbine? Just curious to know...

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:05 pm

rik75 wrote:: Something has been puzzling me regarding the murder of Isaiah Shoels. We know that he was racially abused before his death and after his death. When Isaiah had been shot ,E or D said " Woohoo! Wow look at that Ni**ers brains " and followed by " Yeah we aint seen ni**ers brains before". Many people heard these remarks. Evan Todd stated that he heard them. What i don't understand is this : why did they mention brains? Isaiah was not shot in the head and he had no head trauma of any kind. He was shot in the left arm and chest. Why did E & D make those strange comments ?
I have another witness regarding those remarks. Joshua Lapp's statement is in the 11K section of the Library Witnesses. Page 223 of 385 pages. He stated : " They (E&D) would shoot and yell and whoop and holler. At one time one of them said : "Hey there's that little Ni**er!" Then they shot three times and one asked the other : " is he dead?" and the other said : " yeah he's dead". After that one said : " Wow i didn't think black brains could fly that far ". Evan Todd's statement is in the 11K Library Injured Q-Z section. Page 55 of 63 pages.

000053: Mark Kintgen reported as the suspects entered the library he could see that they proceeded west. Mark Kintgen stated as the suspects were walking in between the main counter and the reference desk he heard one of them state words to the effect "Everyone stand up." Mark Kintgen then related it was at that point he began to hear "gunshots." Mark Kintgen could not recall the number of gunshots but knew it was more than one. Mark Kintgen stated very soon after the gunshots initially stopped he heard one of the suspects state, "Oh look at his brains." Mark Kintgen then recalled hearing the suspects "laugh." Mark Kintgen pointed out the suspects continuously laughed throughout the incident at various times.

000135: The suspects shot someone else and they were laughing and she [Valeen Schnurr] remembers them making the statement, "Look at his brains."
000144: IO confirmed with Valeen Schnurr she was describing gunshots inside the library, which appeared to be occurring somewhere from the northwest area. Valeen Schnurr did recall, after hearing those gunshots, one of the suspects stated, "look at his brains." Valeen Schnurr told IO at that point, she believed someone had been shot. Valeen Schnurr stated moments after hearing that comment, she then began to hear more gunshots.

000171: Evan Todd stated he next recalled hearing one of the suspects state, "hey, stop n****r." Evan Todd stated a second voice then responded, "yeah, we don't like n*****s." Evan Todd related after hearing the above comments (and possibly more) he then heard approximately three to four gunshots, followed by someone yelling, "whohoo." Evan Todd clarified the aforementioned quote was some type of excited utterance, which he believed came from one of the suspects. Evan Todd stated he next heard one of the suspects state, "Wow, look at this n*****'s brains." In
response to that comment, Evan Todd heard another voice respond, "Yeah, we've never seen n*****'s brains before."

000547: Stephanie Salmon stated she next began to hear multiple gunshots, which she knew were coming from the northwest section of the library. Stephanie Salmon could not recall the number of gunshots she heard, but knew after they stopped, one of the suspects began laughing and stated, "look at these brains." Stephanie Salmon stated after that comment was made, she heard additional laughter.

000583: [Craig] Scott did remember hearing a comment in the Library by one of the gunmen concerning somebody's brains. Scott believes this comment may have been about [Isaiah] Shoels.

000616: Aaron Welsh stated at one point (sequence of events unknown), he heard one of the suspects state, "Look at this guy's brains and blood."

008643: Mrs. Schnurr said Valeen told her she (Valeen) could hear the suspects laughing as they shot students and recalls the suspects laughing
about "blowing someone's head off and their brains looking like spaghetti".

009873: [Jenna] Park additionally said that she heard when either "Dyian" or possibly someone else, shot another student in the head, they were "joking around" and stated "Oh wow, look at his brains" and were laughing about it.

*West Side of the Library - we know that Patrick Ireland, Cassie Bernall, and Kyle Velasquez were shot in the head as well as other places.

*Since most sources refer to a male, they may have been referencing Kyle Velasquez since he had 7 perforated gunshots to the left side of his head

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:00 pm

ThoughtBox wrote:: Does anyone out there know of famous (or semi-famous) relatives of any of the victims (those killed or injured) at Columbine? Just curious to know...

Foster the People bassist Cubbie Fink reportedly had a female cousin who was in the library at the time of the shooting:

Fink wrote:: The whole youth violence thing hit pretty close to me. My cousin was part of the ordeal at Columbine. She was actually in the library when everything went down, so I actually flew out to be with her the day after it happened and experienced the trauma surrounding it and saw how affected she was by it. She is as close as a sister, so obviously, it affected me deeply. So to be able to have a song to create a platform to talk about this stuff has been good for us.

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Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:27 pm

queenfarooq wrote:

ThoughtBox wrote:: Does anyone out there know of famous (or semi-famous) relatives of any of the victims (those killed or injured) at Columbine? Just curious to know...

Foster the People bassist Cubbie Fink reportedly had a female cousin who was in the library at the time of the shooting:

Fink wrote:: The whole youth violence thing hit pretty close to me. My cousin was part of the ordeal at Columbine. She was actually in the library when everything went down, so I actually flew out to be with her the day after it happened and experienced the trauma surrounding it and saw how affected she was by it. She is as close as a sister, so obviously, it affected me deeply. So to be able to have a song to create a platform to talk about this stuff has been good for us.

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Oh thanks for this, I always wanted to read his exact story regarding the inspiration of Pumped Up Kicks. I wonder what is the name of his cousin to see if she was interviewed for the witnesses statements

_________________
The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent; but if we can come to terms with this indifference and accept the challenges of life within the boundaries of death — however mutable man may be able to make them — our existence as a species can have genuine meaning and fulfillment. However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:55 pm

Mj2beat wrote:: Oh thanks for this, I always wanted to read his exact story regarding the inspiration of Pumped Up Kicks. I wonder what is the name of his cousin to see if she was interviewed for the witnesses statements

I have heard speculation that the song was referencing the Robert Hawkins mall shooting. However the band have clarified in several interviews that the song 'Pumped Up Kicks' was written from the perspective of a troubled youth and not connected to Hawkins. According to Wikipedia:

Quote :: The lyrics to "Pumped Up Kicks" are written from the perspective of a troubled and delusional youth with homicidal thoughts.The lines in the chorus warn potential victims to "outrun my gun" and that they "better run, better run, faster than my bullet". Foster said in a statement to CNN.com, "I wrote 'Pumped Up Kicks' when I began to read about the growing trend in teenage mental illness. I wanted to understand the psychology behind it because it was foreign to me. It was terrifying how mental illness among youth had skyrocketed in the last decade. I was scared to see where the pattern was headed if we didn't start changing the way we were bringing up the next generation

Quote :: Due to the opening lyrics, "Robert's got a quick hand," many have speculated that the song is a reference to Robert Hawkins, perpetrator of Omaha's Westroads Mall shooting. The band's publicist denied any connection: "This is completely false. The character name in the song is just a coincidence." For play on the television channels MTV and MTVu, the words "gun" and "bullet" were removed from the song's chorus. Foster believes many have misinterpreted the song's meaning, and have written letters to his record label and called radio stations to complain. He explained, "The song is not about condoning violence at all. It's the complete opposite. The song is an amazing platform to have a conversation with your kids about something that shouldn't be ignored, to talk about it in a loving way."

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I've come across a couple of articles that include the mention of Fink's cousin yet none mention her by name, which is understandable. I'm just assuming that she was a library witness as he never seems to mention her been injured in any way, I know that doesn't really narrow things down too much.

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:46 pm

queenfarooq wrote:

Mj2beat wrote:: Oh thanks for this, I always wanted to read his exact story regarding the inspiration of Pumped Up Kicks. I wonder what is the name of his cousin to see if she was interviewed for the witnesses statements

I have heard speculation that the song was referencing the Robert Hawkins mall shooting. However the band have clarified in several interviews that the song 'Pumped Up Kicks' was written from the perspective of a troubled youth and not connected to Hawkins. According to Wikipedia:

Quote :: The lyrics to "Pumped Up Kicks" are written from the perspective of a troubled and delusional youth with homicidal thoughts.The lines in the chorus warn potential victims to "outrun my gun" and that they "better run, better run, faster than my bullet". Foster said in a statement to CNN.com, "I wrote 'Pumped Up Kicks' when I began to read about the growing trend in teenage mental illness. I wanted to understand the psychology behind it because it was foreign to me. It was terrifying how mental illness among youth had skyrocketed in the last decade. I was scared to see where the pattern was headed if we didn't start changing the way we were bringing up the next generation

Quote :: Due to the opening lyrics, "Robert's got a quick hand," many have speculated that the song is a reference to Robert Hawkins, perpetrator of Omaha's Westroads Mall shooting. The band's publicist denied any connection: "This is completely false. The character name in the song is just a coincidence." For play on the television channels MTV and MTVu, the words "gun" and "bullet" were removed from the song's chorus. Foster believes many have misinterpreted the song's meaning, and have written letters to his record label and called radio stations to complain. He explained, "The song is not about condoning violence at all. It's the complete opposite. The song is an amazing platform to have a conversation with your kids about something that shouldn't be ignored, to talk about it in a loving way."

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I've come across a couple of articles that include the mention of Fink's cousin yet none mention her by name, which is understandable. I'm just assuming that she was a library witness as he never seems to mention her been injured in any way, I know that doesn't really narrow things down too much.

Thanks again, now I know more the story behind the song that always intrigued me a bit, including the fact that something about Columbine could be also behind all the inspiration that is in the end all the violence from the last years

_________________
The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent; but if we can come to terms with this indifference and accept the challenges of life within the boundaries of death — however mutable man may be able to make them — our existence as a species can have genuine meaning and fulfillment. However vast the darkness, we must supply our own light

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:23 am

ThoughtBox wrote:: Does anyone out there know of famous (or semi-famous) relatives of any of the victims (those killed or injured) at Columbine? Just curious to know...

One of the band members of Five Iron Frenzy had a little sister who was in the gymnasium during the shooting.

They ended up writing a song about the Columbine shooting, called 'A New Hope'. In fact, the very first verses of the song reference the sister going back to school after the incident.

Fun fact: Five Iron Frenzy was one of Rachel Scott's favourite bands. She and her older sister would sing their songs in the car on their way to youth group.

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:35 pm

OK, I tried doing a search for my question because I vaguely remember reading it somewhere. Maybe it was in the old forum, I don't know.

Which victim was a fan of wrestling? I don't know if it was WWF or WCW, I can't remember, but I swear I read it somewhere, because Sting usually wears a black trench coat when he comes out to the ring and they had him not wear it for a while following the attack. I also remember reading they dedicated one of the shows to the victim, I just can't remember who.

I'm a wrestling fan, just saw SmackDown live this week and it reminded me of this, so I had to ask if anyone remembers.

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:50 pm

veroden wrote:: OK, I tried doing a search for my question because I vaguely remember reading it somewhere. Maybe it was in the old forum, I don't know.

Which victim was a fan of wrestling? I don't know if it was WWF or WCW, I can't remember, but I swear I read it somewhere, because Sting usually wears a black trench coat when he comes out to the ring and they had him not wear it for a while following the attack. I also remember reading they dedicated one of the shows to the victim, I just can't remember who.

I'm a wrestling fan, just saw SmackDown live this week and it reminded me of this, so I had to ask if anyone remembers.

It was Matt Kechter.

An April 26th 1999 episode of 'Raw is War' by the World Wrestling Federation (now WWE) was dedicated to Matt Kechter.

The dedication came right at the beginning of the show:
"Earlier Today,
The World Wrestling Federation received a request from the parents of Mathew Kechter to join them tonight in remembering their son, his friends and classmates who lost their lives in the senseless tragedy at Columbine High School.
The WWF joins parents, teachers and community leaders in recognizing the importance of banding together to meet the needs of troubled teens. Violence is never an answer. Through communication we will hopefully find a solution.
In memory of all who lost their lives we ask everyone to join us in a moment of silence."

I did try to post the link to the full show which was on YouTube but recently blocked on copyright grounds. The episode is available in parts on Daily Motion but does not include the dedication.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] PART 1.
Part 2 is in the sidebar. I'm not sure if Columbine is mentioned at all during the show.

I wonder if Matt was as caught up in some of the extremely far fetched story lines portrayed by the WWF as i was in 1999 Smile

Rival Wrestling company World Championship Wrestling (WCW) had a character named Berlyn who was supposed to make his debut just after the Columbine tragedy.
The character wore a long dark coat, dark sunglasses and also spoke German on the programming and refused to speak any English. Berlyn's debut was delayed as there was concern over the similar dress style between himself and Eric and Dylan. He made his debut on August 30th 1999 on Monday Nitro.
If anyone is interested it can be seen here:
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WCW also apparently asked Wrestler 'Sting' not to wear his trademark black trenchcoat on the show in the aftermath of the shooting. I don't have a source for this at the moment but I've seen this mentioned in a couple of different articles.

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:07 pm

Wow. Thank you! I didn't know about Berlyn. I don't remember that character, but I was into the WWF more than the WCW. I do know that the new WWE network may eventually put old episodes online. It would be nice if they did and I could watch it.

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:45 am

Was Kyle expelled from his previous school for bullying younger kids?

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:07 pm

Radioactive_Clothing wrote:: Was Kyle expelled from his previous school for bullying younger kids?

He was expelled for setting a shirt on fire in the gym at his old school.He was accused of trying to burn the gym down by the school ,but I don't know if that was his true intent or not.He also got in legal trouble for making harassing phone calls .His parents claimed he was put up to it by other boys.

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:20 am

Thanks, I wasn't aware of this. I knew he hadn't been at Columbine long but wasn't sure why he'd joined half way through a school year.

I went looking for the answer and found someone saying he was expelled for bullying (spitting at kids etc) and the fire incident you mentioned.

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:56 pm

I had never heard that he had bullied anyone.This is new to me.

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We're all going to die, all of us, what a circus; That alone should make us love each other but it doesn't. We are terrorized and flattened by trivialities, we are eaten up by nothing.-Charles Bukowski

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Fri May 02, 2014 2:35 pm

PaintItBlack wrote:: I had never heard that he had bullied anyone.This is new to me.

Sounds like a rumor.

Guest

nevermind wrote:: I know Danny Rohrbough's parents were divorced and both had remarried.
I always wondered if Danny Rohrbough had any siblings? Or maybe half or step siblings?

I think I remember seeing something about Danny having a few step siblings via his dad's wife. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, please.

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:52 pm

phone_call_from_god wrote:

nevermind wrote:: I know Danny Rohrbough's parents were divorced and both had remarried.
I always wondered if Danny Rohrbough had any siblings? Or maybe half or step siblings?

I think I remember seeing something about Danny having a few step siblings via his dad's wife. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, please.

I'm not aware if Danny had or would have had any siblings on his mothers side. But he would have had two step siblings via his fathers side.
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Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:37 pm

How tall was Isaiah? I keep reading he was really small for a football player/ wrestler.

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:18 pm

Radioactive_Clothing wrote:: How tall was Isaiah? I keep reading he was really small for a football player/ wrestler.

Isaiah's autopsy reports that he measured 56 inches in length and weighed 111 pounds pg(3).
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I've seen references to Isaiah been around 5 feet tall. The following article describes him as "hardly more than five feet tall."
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Guest

Guest wrote:: Does anyone out there know of famous (or semi-famous) relatives of any of the victims (those killed or injured) at Columbine? Just curious to know...

Craig Scott is an actor. He played the part of Older Gunnar in Hall Pass, if I remember correctly.

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:09 pm

phone_call_from_god wrote:

Guest wrote:: Does anyone out there know of famous (or semi-famous) relatives of any of the victims (those killed or injured) at Columbine? Just curious to know...

Craig Scott is an actor. He played the part of Older Gunnar in Hall Pass, if I remember correctly.

He was in 'Hall Pass.' There's an IMDb page here for Craig Scott:
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I have not seen the movie Hall Pass but i remember someone once mentioning they had seen him in it, apparently he only appears for a very short space of time. He seems to have done quite a few producing jobs for movies too.

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:36 pm

Just searching around on IMDB about Craig Scott, He was in Dumber and Dumber To, which also starred an actress named Lauren Townsend; Weird coincidence

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*insert Columbine related quote here*

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Fri Apr 17, 2015 6:04 pm

Was Lauren Townsend on th theatre group with rachel and dylan?

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Life is like a tram - you need to know when to get off.

"Bullet Time" - a school shooting film from Poland

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:51 am

Two more questions:
1) Read some conflicting reports. Who fired the shots that criticlaly injured Hochhalter?
2) Was it finally determined whose bullets shot Rachel Joy Scott and who fired the lethal one?

_________________
Life is like a tram - you need to know when to get off.

"Bullet Time" - a school shooting film from Poland

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:44 pm

I don't think so.

Sabratha wrote:: Was Lauren Townsend on th theatre group with rachel and dylan?

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:46 pm

Eric killed Rachel. I am not sure on the other question.

Sabratha wrote:: Two more questions:
1) Read some conflicting reports. Who fired the shots that criticlaly injured Hochhalter?
2) Was it finally determined whose bullets shot Rachel Joy Scott and who fired the lethal one?

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:23 am

Where can I find the heights of the victims?

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:28 pm

Rachel was 5'4,Cassie was 5'8, Lauren was 5'10,Isaiah was around 5'5.

Those are the only ones I know.

John Denver wrote:: Where can I find the heights of the victims?

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Sat Jul 11, 2015 7:16 pm

Which of the victims were not originally from Colorado? I know Kelly's family moved from Arizona only a year and a half before Columbine, and John was from Wisconsin. Others?

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:02 am

John Denver wrote:: Which of the victims were not originally from Colorado? I know Kelly's family moved from Arizona only a year and a half before Columbine, and John was from Wisconsin. Others?

I'm pretty sure they are the only two (at least of the victims that were killed).

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I had it all and I looked at it and I said 'this is a bigger jail than I just got out of'.

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Sat Aug 01, 2015 11:05 am

Which of the victims had transferred to Columbine? Cassie, Kelly, Kyle. Others?

Guest

Does anyone know about Lauren's mom? The Lifetime film Dawn Anna was made about her/Columbine.

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:03 pm

When did Ann Marie's mother commit suicide? Was it shortly after the attacks?

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Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:10 pm

aquillina wrote:: When did Ann Marie's mother commit suicide? Was it shortly after the attacks?

She died in october 99. So roughly 6 months after the attacks

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:40 am

Does anyone have the unedited versions of the footage in these clips? Not sure what's up with the edit..it's quite eerie to watch.

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:44 am

bubbles wrote:: Does anyone have the unedited versions of the footage in these clips? Not sure what's up with the edit..it's quite eerie to watch.

I believe Rachel herself edited it that way. If I am not wrong that was her own video. I think the most creepy-weird was the coincidence that she filmed Danny and he ends up one of the victims too.

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Will you remain my fire in this temporary paradise?

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:52 am

ultraviolencelv wrote:

bubbles wrote:: Does anyone have the unedited versions of the footage in these clips? Not sure what's up with the edit..it's quite eerie to watch.

I believe Rachel herself edited it that way. If I am not wrong that was her own video. I think the most creepy-weird was the coincidence that she filmed Danny and he ends up one of the victims too.

I'm not sure about that. I think it's more likely someone has edited these clips. I know she conducted a small interview with Daniel Rohrbough about the school's vending machines and you can briefly see him in the video I've posted, but I've yet to see unedited versions of the videos.

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:58 am

bubbles wrote:: I'm not sure about that. I think it's more likely someone has edited these clips. I know she conducted a small interview with Daniel Rohrbough about the school's vending machines and you can briefly see him in the video I've posted, but I've yet to see unedited versions of the videos.

Well I don't know. Long time back I did read someone said she edited it like that, cause I was wondering what was up with the transitions. I can't recall where I've watched the unedited interview clips she made.

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:33 pm

areyoulistening wrote:: Did Daniel Mauser push the chair or did his body betray him and jerk with the impact of being shot somewhere minor? (I'm pretty sure it was his shoulder but I'm not 100%)

I want to bump this cuz I've always wanted to know. I doubt we'll ever truly know despite the conversation between Eric and Dylan regarding this. Hero's are usually born of courage which is born out of fear.

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Sun Oct 23, 2016 7:13 am

Good question. I was settling with the fact that Daniel fought back cause he was bad-ass but what if it was a natural jerk that caused him his life.

_________________
Will you remain my fire in this temporary paradise?

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Tue Jan 24, 2017 8:28 am

Greetje wrote:

Jenn wrote:

JDM87 wrote:: So they were sitting where I marked the yellow square, right?
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Yes, that is where they were sitting. Here is another picture. They were probably sitting on the railroad tie.

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It can also be seen in the video where LE are dragging Scott and Castaldo to the fire truck, you can see where they were located before LE got to them. (I'm still amazed when I see that footage, the way they drag Castaldo could've injured him even more, what kind of training did they get to just drag someone's body across the pavement like that? Did they not realize he was still alive? And then they decide to place Rachel's body directly next to the path where they lead other children to safety. After a large amount of children passed her body, they decide to just drag her some more, through the mud, and then leave her there. Shame on you, LE!)

You have this video?? Pls.

I have question Kelly was sitting exactly where the shooting?

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I step outside, what did I hear? I heard the whispers, And the cries of the people's fear. The loneliness of wisdom, Can that be?
Britney Spears fan...

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:25 am

Lucy wrote:

Greetje wrote:

Jenn wrote:

JDM87 wrote:: So they were sitting where I marked the yellow square, right?
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Yes, that is where they were sitting. Here is another picture. They were probably sitting on the railroad tie.

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It can also be seen in the video where LE are dragging Scott and Castaldo to the fire truck, you can see where they were located before LE got to them. (I'm still amazed when I see that footage, the way they drag Castaldo could've injured him even more, what kind of training did they get to just drag someone's body across the pavement like that? Did they not realize he was still alive? And then they decide to place Rachel's body directly next to the path where they lead other children to safety. After a large amount of children passed her body, they decide to just drag her some more, through the mud, and then leave her there. Shame on you, LE!)

You have this video?? Pls.

I have question Kelly was sitting exactly where the shooting?

Kelly's postition as well as others can be found here
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And Rachel being moved
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Pretty much all info about the victims can be found thru search

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:59 am

Imperator wrote:

areyoulistening wrote:: Did Daniel Mauser push the chair or did his body betray him and jerk with the impact of being shot somewhere minor? (I'm pretty sure it was his shoulder but I'm not 100%)

I want to bump this cuz I've always wanted to know. I doubt we'll ever truly know despite the conversation between Eric and Dylan regarding this. Hero's are usually born of courage which is born out of fear.

look into the dialogue notes (in the 11k?) and I think you'll find where Dylan asked Eric if one of the victims tried to "fight back".. going off of memory I believe it was Daniel Mauser.

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:30 pm

Referencing Daniel Mauser

Page 000334:

Lindsay stated that a boy at the table in front of her apparently moved and was shot at least five times. One of the suspects said "so he tried to jump ya"

Page 000341:

There was a blonde boy under table [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. Elmore wasn't really looking but heard shots near table # 9. After the gunshots, one the gunmen stated something to the effect of "was he trying to jump out at you?" and the other one responded, "yeah."

Page 000481:

After Harris shot Mauser the second time the other gunman asked him, something to the effect of, "Did he try to jump you?"

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:28 am

Does anyone know how Kelly Fleming was shot? Close or distant?

_________________
I step outside, what did I hear? I heard the whispers, And the cries of the people's fear. The loneliness of wisdom, Can that be?
Britney Spears fan...

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:15 am

Lucy wrote:: Does anyone know how Kelly Fleming was shot? Close or distant?

Close range, in the back.

_________________
Falling out of airplanes and hiding out in holes
Waiting for the sunset to come, people going home
Jump out from behind them and shoot them in the head
Now everybody dancing, the dance of the dead
The dance of the dead, the dance of the dead

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:54 am

Poor girl, curious if she saw she would shoot her

_________________
I step outside, what did I hear? I heard the whispers, And the cries of the people's fear. The loneliness of wisdom, Can that be?
Britney Spears fan...

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:51 am

Lucy wrote:: Poor girl, curious if she saw she would shoot her

I doubt she saw it coming, he came up from behind and shot her. Death almost instant though, thank god for that.

_________________
Falling out of airplanes and hiding out in holes
Waiting for the sunset to come, people going home
Jump out from behind them and shoot them in the head
Now everybody dancing, the dance of the dead
The dance of the dead, the dance of the dead

Subject: Re: Questions about the victims? Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:38 pm

Lisa Kreutz reference to a girl crawling up and laying beside her with blond hair. The only girl that could have been was Kelly Fleming - excluding the recollection of blond hair. If that was Kelly, which it more than likely was, she was alive for a little while after getting shot.

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Kelly's Autopsy:

FLEMING, KELLY
AUTOPSY REPORT
JCCO [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

PATHOLOGICAL DIAGNOSES:

1. Penetrating shotgun wound to the trunk with:

A. Entrance, left lower back.

B. Recovery of projectiles, within projectile path, mainly within the left upper chest and left
neck.

C. Perforating lacerations of the left kidney, left adrenal, stomach, esophagus, spleen, liver,
bilateral lungs, heart and thoracic aorta.

D. Associated bilateral hemothoraces, hemopericardium, hemomediastinum and
hemoperitoneum.

E. Fracture of the left hip (ilium) including associated hemoretroperitoneum.

2. Recent cutaneous abraded contusion of the right knee.

3. Early postmortem decomposition.

OPINION:

This 16-year-old female sustained a shotgun wound at her high school. She was pronounced dead at the scene. Her death is attributed to multiple visceral and vascular lacerations due to a penetrating shotgun wound to the trunk. Toxicologic analyses of body fluids obtained at the time of autopsy were negative. In view of the scene and circumstances surrounding the death and autopsy findings, the manner of death is classified as homicide.

Pages 011144/011150: Harris moves northeast of table [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and shoots Fleming once with the pump action shotgun (pellets). From the east side of table [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], Harris fires the pump action shotgun under table [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] hitting Townsend, Park, and Kreutz with pellets. Observed by Savage (LG25)rBiair (LG18), Kreutz (LYIO), Schnurr (LY9) and Park (LYI 1) and Perez (LG17).

Page 012250: Victim [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], later identified as KELLY FLEMING, was found lying on the floor in a prone position to the southeast of Table 2. She was dressed in a black shirt, denim pants and black/white tennis shoes. An entry wound consistent with a shotgun discharge was present in the lower left
back of the body. The plastic shotgun cup/wad was present in the wound tract. Several associated pellet holes were present adjacent to the main entry wound. Drainage of blood from the wound was minimal and consistent with the position of the body as found. Drainage of blood from the nose/mouth area was consistent with the position of the body as found. No other bloodstains were present on the body. Photographs were taken of the position of the body, the bloodstains present on the body, and the bloodstains on the carpet surrounding the body.

Page 012253: Autopsy results from Dr. Dobersen on KELLY FLEMING indicated a single shotgun blast entered the lower left back, traveled straight upward, and the pellets were contained in the upper left back area. The acute angle of travel through the body indicated that the victim was in a
prone or near prone position when shot.

Page 012255: Personal items identified as FLEMING'S were found on and under the northeast corner of Table 4. The corresponding chair was moved back from the table. Examination of Table 4 and the six chairs associated with it did not reveal any bloodstains or bullet impact sites. No other person's belongings were found on Table 4.

*Question: Was the left hip fracture a result of being shot? How did she bruise her right knee? What position was she in when she was shot? Was she crawling or trying to get away before being shot?

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