Who is considered a survivor?

I wanted to post this as a separate discussion. It came about from a discussion in the Parkland section of the forum but I thought it would be kind of interesting to talk about here.

This is something I’ve spoken to a friend about. About how there’s almost levels of survivors when it comes to these tragedies. And a lot of people have survivors guilt over it Or they don’t feel like they have any right to feel like a survivor because they may have been out of school that day or got out of school quickly.

Brooks Brown and John Savage were both technically “let go” and would be called survivors. However brooks’s experience with the actual shooting (not aftermath ) pales in comparison with what John endured.

There are different levels of survivors, I guess. My broadest definition would be one who was in the school and who had to be evacuated. Then the "levels" would be:
1. Those who were shot, injured and survived
2. Those who were in a room where someone was killed or injured
3. Those who were in a room where shoots were fired/ were shot at
4. Those who were evacuated passed a dead body
5. Those who were evacuated and did not witness the shooting

However, even those who were not on campus may be traumatised.

Pixie13 wrote:

There are different levels of survivors, I guess. My  broadest definition would be one who was in the school and who had to be evacuated. Then the "levels" would be:
1. Those who were shot, injured and survived
2. Those who were in a room where someone was killed or injured
3. Those who were in a room where shoots were fired/ were shot at
4. Those who were evacuated passed a dead body
5. Those who were evacuated and did not witness the shooting

However, even those who were not on campus may be traumatised.

I wondered the same. I agree with Pixie13, at first my definition of a survivor was obviously 1, 2 and 3 because they did face the danger, and also 4 because they actually saw death and were in the place where it happened even if they themselves were not put at direct risk. Basically, you are a survivor if you were in the place where and at the time a shooting happened. Even if you didn't see Cruz for example, if you were hiding in a closet because he could find you you are a survivor. I didn't really consider those who were immediately evacuated and didn't hear or saw anything or those who were in other buildings as survivors.

Now I would probably include 5 too, not really because I truly consider them as survivors but because I don't feel legitimate to choose given that I didn't live the thing myself. Would you be considered a survivor of a hurricane for example if you were evacuated immediately? But given that the students who were immediately evacuated and did not see or hear anything would probably consider themselves survivors, I see them as survivors too because I don't feel comfortable and legitimate to say who is a survivor and who is not. Except in some very obvious cases, I don't think I have the right to say "No, you're not a survivor.", especially to someone who is yet traumatized or feel guilt.

I think if you heard the gunshots and feared for your life, even if unbeknownst to you that you are not in danger, it still counts. That brush with mortality can be life-changing. Imagine hiding in your classroom unsure if you will ever leave again. It must be so terrible.

Pixie13 wrote:

There are different levels of survivors, I guess. My  broadest definition would be one who was in the school and who had to be evacuated. Then the "levels" would be:
1. Those who were shot, injured and survived
2. Those who were in a room where someone was killed or injured
3. Those who were in a room where shoots were fired/ were shot at
4. Those who were evacuated passed a dead body
5. Those who were evacuated and did not witness the shooting

However, even those who were not on campus may be traumatised.

I agree with this completely. I think everyone who was there during the shooting is a survivor on some level. Some people may only be a "5", but they did survive the shooting. They lived through it, therefore that would make them the definition of a survivor. Those people fleeing could have heard shots without ever witnessing bodies. That alone could be terrifying enough to have lasting effects.

I don't know if I would call myself a "survivor" of it if I wasn't in school that day but I could still see it being very disturbing and emotionally challenging to comprehend

I'd add another level, those who were very close/related to victims. Someone running out of the cafeteria who didnt know anyone may be effected less than someone who had a best friend killed.

I guess I'm thinking of my sister who ran into Rachel in the commons and wanted her to come pick up prom pictures with her and another friend, otherwise she would probably would have been eating with Rachel. She came back to school like 5-10 min max later because her friend forgot her wallet before the street and parking lot were blocked off and was out in the parking lot while there was shooting going on, went to figure out what was going on, saw some victims, police coming etc. then ran off with a group of kids coming out from the school.

Losing Rachel affected her the most.

milennialrebelette wrote:

I'd add another level, those who were very close/related to victims. Someone running out of the cafeteria who didnt know anyone may be effected less than someone who had a best friend killed.

I guess I'm thinking of my sister who ran into Rachel in the commons and wanted her to come pick up prom pictures with her and another friend, otherwise she would probably would have been eating with Rachel. She came back to school like 5-10 min max later because her friend forgot her wallet before the street and parking lot were blocked off and was out in the parking lot while there was shooting going on, went to figure out what was going on, saw some victims, police coming etc. then ran off with a group of kids coming out from the school.

Losing Rachel affected her the most.

That is an excellent point.

I’ve read that Devon was really close to Rachel and she got out right away but losing her was devastating. Being safe but then finding out that one of your best friends died is incredibly tragic.

And I can’t even imagine what val or Lisa are felt after being injured and losing their friend. It really affects a lot of different people in different ways

I think bereavement comes under a whole different thing. They are victims of Eric and Dylan. It is a nuance, but as you say, there are some people who suffered (and still do) who were not physically there.

Like the parents of the victims and Eric and Dylan’s parents too. In the mothers reckoning didn’t Sue say that Dylan‘s cousin in Ohio had to go to the hospital because she was so traumatized by what he did?

Screamingophelia wrote:

Like the parents of the victims and  Eric and Dylan’s parents too. In the mothers reckoning didn’t Sue say that Dylan‘s cousin in Ohio had to go to the hospital because she was so traumatized by what he did?

You're right. I didn't mention family members of the shooters and victims at all. They're most certainly survivors of the shooting too.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Like the parents of the victims and  Eric and Dylan’s parents too. In the mothers reckoning didn’t Sue say that Dylan‘s cousin in Ohio had to go to the hospital because she was so traumatized by what he did?

I completely agree with you. I believe that parents and closest relatives (siblings, for example) should also be considered as "Survivors".

I know there were some other kids like my sister who went through with different plans for lunch that day and had friends theyd usually be with killed. I think Danny Mausers usually lunch time friend wasnt there. Then the kids who left the library right before Eric and Dylan came in. Situations like that definitely caused some serious survivors guilt. Then there's the secondary survive trauma from where they were doing the shooting from being at home sick to the middle like my sister who saw and heard some of the shooting but was relatively safe in the parking lot/outside the building to the most intense like some kids in the library who moved tables like Jessica Holliday, they still have that horrible experience of being in the library plus finding out friends they were sitting with were injured and killed.

If the mass shooter doesn't die in the attack, aren't they a survivor themselves?
meant to make this a joke but it's technically true

NSAhoneypot wrote:

If the mass shooter doesn't die in the attack, aren't they a survivor themselves?
meant to make this a joke but it's technically true

I dont think that counts. They are the perpetrators. They're not at risk of becoming victims of the attack itself (you can argue they're victims of the situations or other things but when it comes specifically to the attack carried out that day no) Because of this if they did live they wouldnt be survivors IMO. Even if they were killed by the cops since they were planning that as a way of suicide they wouldnt be victims IMO. Again emphasizing this is in relation to the attack that was carried out that day.