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 Where would they be if Columbine never happened?

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Rebbie556
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slippy123

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PostSubject: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeWed Feb 06, 2019 8:46 pm

I've always wondered if for some crazy circumstance the boys didn't go through with it, where would they end up in life?
For Eric, I believe he would of ended up doing something stupid eventually.
I believe someone would have eventually gotten on his nerves enough for him to act out with violence or something of the sort.
He just had so much hate in his heart, it's hard to think he'd live a normal life.
But Dylan is a mixed bag, and hard to figure out.
I feel like if I were to hang out with Dylan alone, he'd be a chill person talking about video games or computers.
I tend to think if he went away to college, he would of eventually found and girl, and friends with the same interests, and maybe would of looked back and laughed at the fact he at one point wanted to kill people.

I say this because I met someone sort of like him. This guy I know always wore a trench coat, so me being into Columbine of course I had to tell him how it reminded me of it.
He said it's funny I bring that up, because in high-school he actually started planning a Columbine like shooting because the football team were relentless in making fun of him.
He said he was going to wait for a bus of jocks to return from a game, and as they got off the bus, he was going to shoot them.
This was surprising because he is a big dude, and was 6'2 and 220 pounds in high-school. I guess size really doesn't matter when it comes to bullying.

He went on to say that he was just in a bad place, always depressed and thought his whole life would be like high-school.
He said he was so glad he didn't because he is now married and has two beautiful kids, and realized high-school doesn't predict how your life will be, once you graduate, you'll never see those people again.
This person now looks back and can't even believe thoughts of killing people ever crossed his mind. He is like a gentle giant.

It's a pretty crazy story, and it made me wonder just what life would be like for the boys if they didn't go through with it.

What do you guys think? Do you think Dylan or Eric would lived productive lives without doing something stupid, or were they both doomed regardless if Columbine happened or not?
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Screamingophelia
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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeWed Feb 06, 2019 9:07 pm

I like this question because there are a lot of options. I also think of what Question Mark has brought up before about some of Eric and Dylan's friends, namely Zach and Chris. Zach's senior quote was "I hate this school" Zach wrote a threatening letter to Devon's ex-boyfriend, he shot out someone's window and this is a big assumption had that dramatic fight with Devon and he ended up jumping out of a car or Devon did.. so something about Zach was volatile. He was angry too. Chris was known to get into fights and he pulled a knife out on someone. Neither of them committed mass murder. As far as we know they are both productive members of society, working etc... Eric and Dylan had something different inside them. They both needed help.

So best case scenerio Eric gets help, gets off meds, joins the Marines and starts a career. Though I think he would have done well if he got help by going to college and designing games, I think Eric was a better actor in the videos and Dylan was the better writer. I mean neither of them would have won an Oscar... but I HAVE seen worse. Maybe Eric could have continued his film endeavors?

Dylan is murky because I do think he wanted to die, and depression is no joke. He had I think clinical depression from a young age and that eventually turned into anger. I think Dylan wanted revenge and he wanted to lash out in a horrible way like he did that day. He wanted people to suffer as much as he was on the inside. Dylan also was very adept in hiding so much that getting to the bottom of his issues would be hard. People talk about Eric's charm, I dare say Dylan had some charm himself if you got to know him. He was loyal but at the end he didn't care anymore, so how much of his personality was real?

So let's say Dylan got help, I could see him being single for a long time but having good friends and maybe getting into business with Zach? Maybe he could have tried to work as a coach for a baseball team? I say Dylan being single is an option because I'm not sure if his standards for girls came from his depression or if he was truly very, very picky.

I sometimes wonder if Eric really wanted to be a Marine or if he felt like he HAD to because of his dad and brother. I also wonder if he thought it would be a way to focus his anger a bit. He would finally have some semblance of power?

It's weird thinking they could have gone to their 20 year HS reunion this year. Along with Lauren and Isaiah. In another universe they could have said a friendly hello to each other and laughed along to memories...

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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeWed Feb 06, 2019 9:16 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
I like this question because there are a lot of options. I also think of what Question Mark has brought up before about some of Eric and Dylan's friends, namely Zach and Chris. Zach's senior quote was "I hate this school" Zach wrote a threatening letter to Devon's ex-boyfriend, he shot out someone's window and this is a big assumption had that dramatic fight with Devon and he ended up jumping out of a car or Devon did.. so something about Zach was volatile. He was angry too. Chris was known to get into fights and he pulled a knife out on someone. Neither of them committed mass murder. As far as we know they are both productive members of society, working etc... Eric and Dylan had something different inside them. They both needed help.

So best case scenerio Eric gets help, gets off meds, joins the Marines and starts a career. Though I think he would have done well if he got help by going to college and designing games, I think Eric was a better actor in the videos and Dylan was the better writer. I mean neither of them would have won an Oscar... but I HAVE seen worse. Maybe Eric could have continued his film endeavors?

Dylan is murky because I do think he wanted to die, and depression is no joke. He had I think clinical depression from a young age and that eventually turned into anger. I think Dylan wanted revenge and he wanted to lash out in a horrible way like he did that day. He wanted people to suffer as much as he was on the inside. Dylan also was very adept in hiding so much that getting to the bottom of his issues would be hard. People talk about Eric's charm, I dare say Dylan had some charm himself if you got to know him. He was loyal but at the end he didn't care anymore, so how much of his personality was real?

So let's say Dylan got help, I could see him being single for a long time but having good friends and maybe getting into business with Zach? Maybe he could have tried to work as a coach for a baseball team? I say Dylan being single is an option because I'm not sure if his standards for girls came from his depression or if he was truly very, very picky.

I sometimes wonder if Eric really wanted to be a Marine or if he felt like he HAD to because of his dad and brother. I also wonder if he thought it would be a way to focus his anger a bit. He would finally have some semblance of power?

It's weird thinking they could have gone to their 20 year HS reunion this year. Along with Lauren and Isaiah. In another universe they could have said a friendly hello to each other and laughed along to memories...

Very good points. I've seen people who've attempted suicide at one point because of serious depression get the right treatment, and they are among some of the happiest people I know now.
So I think Dylan had a chance. Eric on the other hand just gives me this gut feeling that even if he was treated, eventually something would happen.
Alot of it does have to do with seeing the bigger picture like their friends did.
Out of all the people I know who have mothers or fathers who were in the military, I'd say a good 85-90% of them joined too because of pressure from the family.
We will never truly know, but seeing how his brother joined the military, I tend to think Eric was trying to please his dad and was under some sort of pressure to join.
It seemed like his true love was with computers and video games.

It is wierd to think they'd be going to their 20 year reunion, but something tells me neither one would of went or had any interest in going.
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Screamingophelia
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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeWed Feb 06, 2019 9:20 pm

slippy123 wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
I like this question because there are a lot of options. I also think of what Question Mark has brought up before about some of Eric and Dylan's friends, namely Zach and Chris. Zach's senior quote was "I hate this school" Zach wrote a threatening letter to Devon's ex-boyfriend, he shot out someone's window and this is a big assumption had that dramatic fight with Devon and he ended up jumping out of a car or Devon did.. so something about Zach was volatile. He was angry too. Chris was known to get into fights and he pulled a knife out on someone. Neither of them committed mass murder. As far as we know they are both productive members of society, working etc... Eric and Dylan had something different inside them. They both needed help.

So best case scenerio Eric gets help, gets off meds, joins the Marines and starts a career. Though I think he would have done well if he got help by going to college and designing games, I think Eric was a better actor in the videos and Dylan was the better writer. I mean neither of them would have won an Oscar... but I HAVE seen worse. Maybe Eric could have continued his film endeavors?

Dylan is murky because I do think he wanted to die, and depression is no joke. He had I think clinical depression from a young age and that eventually turned into anger. I think Dylan wanted revenge and he wanted to lash out in a horrible way like he did that day. He wanted people to suffer as much as he was on the inside. Dylan also was very adept in hiding so much that getting to the bottom of his issues would be hard. People talk about Eric's charm, I dare say Dylan had some charm himself if you got to know him. He was loyal but at the end he didn't care anymore, so how much of his personality was real?

So let's say Dylan got help, I could see him being single for a long time but having good friends and maybe getting into business with Zach? Maybe he could have tried to work as a coach for a baseball team? I say Dylan being single is an option because I'm not sure if his standards for girls came from his depression or if he was truly very, very picky.

I sometimes wonder if Eric really wanted to be a Marine or if he felt like he HAD to because of his dad and brother. I also wonder if he thought it would be a way to focus his anger a bit. He would finally have some semblance of power?

It's weird thinking they could have gone to their 20 year HS reunion this year. Along with Lauren and Isaiah. In another universe they could have said a friendly hello to each other and laughed along to memories...

Very good points. I've seen people who've attempted suicide at one point because of serious depression get the right treatment, and they are among some of the happiest people I know now.
So I think Dylan had a chance. Eric on the other hand just gives me this gut feeling that even if he was treated, eventually something would happen.
Alot of it does have to do with seeing the bigger picture like their friends did.
Out of all the people I know who have mothers or fathers who were in the military, I'd say a good 85-90% of them joined too because of pressure from the family.
We will never truly know, but seeing how his brother joined the military, I tend to think Eric was trying to please his dad and was under some sort of pressure to join.
It seemed like his true love was with computers and video games.

It is wierd to think they'd be going to their 20 year reunion, but something tells me neither one would of went or had any interest in going.

Something I think about with them is, what if Columbine didn't happen but in turn one of them as they got older and learned more about bomb making and got more money, what if they did something that caused the deaths of even more people?

It is like what they talk about on "The Good Place" what if the lives of these 15 people had to end to save hundreds later on? we just don't know

I agree too they probably wouldn't be going to their reunion. I think even if Dylan developed an app that made him a billionare I could see him being very apathetic.

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slippy123

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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeWed Feb 06, 2019 9:40 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
slippy123 wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
I like this question because there are a lot of options. I also think of what Question Mark has brought up before about some of Eric and Dylan's friends, namely Zach and Chris. Zach's senior quote was "I hate this school" Zach wrote a threatening letter to Devon's ex-boyfriend, he shot out someone's window and this is a big assumption had that dramatic fight with Devon and he ended up jumping out of a car or Devon did.. so something about Zach was volatile. He was angry too. Chris was known to get into fights and he pulled a knife out on someone. Neither of them committed mass murder. As far as we know they are both productive members of society, working etc... Eric and Dylan had something different inside them. They both needed help.

So best case scenerio Eric gets help, gets off meds, joins the Marines and starts a career. Though I think he would have done well if he got help by going to college and designing games, I think Eric was a better actor in the videos and Dylan was the better writer. I mean neither of them would have won an Oscar... but I HAVE seen worse. Maybe Eric could have continued his film endeavors?

Dylan is murky because I do think he wanted to die, and depression is no joke. He had I think clinical depression from a young age and that eventually turned into anger. I think Dylan wanted revenge and he wanted to lash out in a horrible way like he did that day. He wanted people to suffer as much as he was on the inside. Dylan also was very adept in hiding so much that getting to the bottom of his issues would be hard. People talk about Eric's charm, I dare say Dylan had some charm himself if you got to know him. He was loyal but at the end he didn't care anymore, so how much of his personality was real?

So let's say Dylan got help, I could see him being single for a long time but having good friends and maybe getting into business with Zach? Maybe he could have tried to work as a coach for a baseball team? I say Dylan being single is an option because I'm not sure if his standards for girls came from his depression or if he was truly very, very picky.

I sometimes wonder if Eric really wanted to be a Marine or if he felt like he HAD to because of his dad and brother. I also wonder if he thought it would be a way to focus his anger a bit. He would finally have some semblance of power?

It's weird thinking they could have gone to their 20 year HS reunion this year. Along with Lauren and Isaiah. In another universe they could have said a friendly hello to each other and laughed along to memories...

Very good points. I've seen people who've attempted suicide at one point because of serious depression get the right treatment, and they are among some of the happiest people I know now.
So I think Dylan had a chance. Eric on the other hand just gives me this gut feeling that even if he was treated, eventually something would happen.
Alot of it does have to do with seeing the bigger picture like their friends did.
Out of all the people I know who have mothers or fathers who were in the military, I'd say a good 85-90% of them joined too because of pressure from the family.
We will never truly know, but seeing how his brother joined the military, I tend to think Eric was trying to please his dad and was under some sort of pressure to join.
It seemed like his true love was with computers and video games.

It is wierd to think they'd be going to their 20 year reunion, but something tells me neither one would of went or had any interest in going.

Something I think about with them is, what if Columbine didn't happen but in turn one of them as they got older and learned more about bomb making and got more money, what if they did something that caused the deaths of even more people?

It is like what they talk about on "The Good Place" what if the lives of these 15 people had to end to save hundreds later on? we just don't know

I agree too they probably wouldn't be going to their reunion. I think even if Dylan developed an app that made him a billionare I could see him being very apathetic.

Another great point! Who knows if they would of committed another act of murder which killed even more people than Columbine.
I feel like Eric would of been the one to do such a thing. I can see Dylan eventually finding a girlfriend and such, but Eric not so much.
Maybe Eric would of still wanted to keep in contact with Dylan, but Dylan was out at college living his life having fun.
Maybe that would of thrown Eric off the edge too, who knows.

The crazy thing is, them becoming millionaires isn't that far-fetched of an idea, as they both would of graduated college during the .com boom.
Oh man, imagine if one of them would of hit it big, but lost the chance due to killing kids they would never have to see again after graduation.
How ironic that would be.
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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 07, 2019 5:48 am

Well it's a bit out of topic, I get why Kathy didn't want him to go to the marines maybe For his own good. He would get furious when ppl told him what too do and there they know no mercy. Also PTSD or how it's called. He would probably have this & commit suicide. Or he could have become the next Tim McVeigh.

From what I know Eric and his mom where more closer than his dad.
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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 07, 2019 9:06 am

For me my opinion on Dylan would depend on if he got help and when. I think if he had continued on his high school path in college, he would have comitted suicide. He would have been far away from family friends and everything he knew. College is a very dark time for some people and I don't see him changing that. However if he would have gotten help before then I think he could have been ok. IDK I see Dylan as a persistent depressive person. I think he would have had trouble with it his whole life.

I think Eric would always feel inadequate. I think he could have gone to a community college and gotten a 9 to 5 and been unhappy with it.

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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 07, 2019 9:24 am

Dylan was so smart with computers he'd defiantly could have been working at apple or a major computer company and being very good at it. But his depression was so bad I don't know if he would hold a job unless he got the help that he needed to tackle the depression head on while in school, he tended to bottle his emotions because he didn't want to be seen as weak, but truth its better to get out the emotions than to spiral downhill further. Dylan was so self-reliant that I feel like he didnt want to bother anyone with his problems and felt he could deal with them on his own but he couldnt he needed help.
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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 07, 2019 10:20 am

rebel2013 wrote:
Dylan was so smart with computers he'd defiantly could have been working at apple or a major computer company and being very good at it.  But his depression was so bad I don't know if he would hold a job unless he got the help that he needed to tackle the depression head on while in school, he tended to bottle his emotions because he didn't want to be seen as weak, but truth its better to get out the emotions than to spiral downhill further.  Dylan was so self-reliant that I feel like he didnt want to bother anyone with his problems and felt he could deal with them on his own but he couldnt he needed help.

I think alot of Dylan's depression came from not being able to find true love, and being stuck in Columbine where most everyone looked at him like he was a loser.
All that ends once you graduate, unfortunately neither saw the bigger picture.
I think going away to college is exactly what Dylan needed, so he could of see that high-school doesn't mean shit in the long run.
There are so many clubs and stuff like that in college where he would of met people with the same interest.
I feel like he would of enjoyed it, but who knows at the end of the day.
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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 07, 2019 10:47 am

slippy123 wrote:
rebel2013 wrote:
Dylan was so smart with computers he'd defiantly could have been working at apple or a major computer company and being very good at it.  But his depression was so bad I don't know if he would hold a job unless he got the help that he needed to tackle the depression head on while in school, he tended to bottle his emotions because he didn't want to be seen as weak, but truth its better to get out the emotions than to spiral downhill further.  Dylan was so self-reliant that I feel like he didnt want to bother anyone with his problems and felt he could deal with them on his own but he couldnt he needed help.

I think alot of Dylan's depression came from not being able to find true love, and being stuck in Columbine where most everyone looked at him like he was a loser.
All that ends once you graduate, unfortunately neither saw the bigger picture.

I've never believed that Eric and Dylan just couldn't see past high school and their time there. I always figured that they did, to some extant anyway, look at what their futures could hold and felt that they just didn't want what was being offered. I mean Dylan made college plans and at least allegedly Eric had thought about it too, so it's not like they had no idea whatsoever of what to expect. Neither of them wanted to get a real life, a real job, go to college and get an education, because then they'd be just like the "zombies" that they so despised.

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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 07, 2019 11:08 am

QuestionMark wrote:
slippy123 wrote:
rebel2013 wrote:
Dylan was so smart with computers he'd defiantly could have been working at apple or a major computer company and being very good at it.  But his depression was so bad I don't know if he would hold a job unless he got the help that he needed to tackle the depression head on while in school, he tended to bottle his emotions because he didn't want to be seen as weak, but truth its better to get out the emotions than to spiral downhill further.  Dylan was so self-reliant that I feel like he didnt want to bother anyone with his problems and felt he could deal with them on his own but he couldnt he needed help.

I think alot of Dylan's depression came from not being able to find true love, and being stuck in Columbine where most everyone looked at him like he was a loser.
All that ends once you graduate, unfortunately neither saw the bigger picture.

I've never believed that Eric and Dylan just couldn't see past high school and their time there. I always figured that they did, to some extant anyway, look at what their futures could hold and felt that they just didn't want what was being offered. I mean Dylan made college plans and at least allegedly Eric had thought about it too, so it's not like they had no idea whatsoever of what to expect. Neither of them wanted to get a real life, a real job, go to college and get an education, because then they'd be just like the "zombies" that they so despised.

Well Eric definitely was interested in a future making video games, he even took the time to write a letter to the creators of doom talking about how he made his own levels and wanted to join their team.
I feel like if they saw his levels and offered him a position there would be a chance he would't of gone through with it.

Dylan made comments about girls when he was checking out ASU, and seemed genuinely excited, but he could of been faking it for all we know.

Maybe they were talking about working a dead end 9-5, and not a dream job.


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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 07, 2019 11:10 am

Eric had no intentions of ever becoming a robot with a 9 to 5. He hated that life.

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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 07, 2019 11:11 am

QuestionMark wrote:
slippy123 wrote:
rebel2013 wrote:
Dylan was so smart with computers he'd defiantly could have been working at apple or a major computer company and being very good at it.  But his depression was so bad I don't know if he would hold a job unless he got the help that he needed to tackle the depression head on while in school, he tended to bottle his emotions because he didn't want to be seen as weak, but truth its better to get out the emotions than to spiral downhill further.  Dylan was so self-reliant that I feel like he didnt want to bother anyone with his problems and felt he could deal with them on his own but he couldnt he needed help.

I think alot of Dylan's depression came from not being able to find true love, and being stuck in Columbine where most everyone looked at him like he was a loser.
All that ends once you graduate, unfortunately neither saw the bigger picture.

I've never believed that Eric and Dylan just couldn't see past high school and their time there. I always figured that they did, to some extant anyway, look at what their futures could hold and felt that they just didn't want what was being offered. I mean Dylan made college plans and at least allegedly Eric had thought about it too, so it's not like they had no idea whatsoever of what to expect. Neither of them wanted to get a real life, a real job, go to college and get an education, because then they'd be just like the "zombies" that they so despised.


Eric wrote in his journal

Well folks, today was a very important day in the history of R. Today along with Vodka and someone else who I wont name, we went downtown and purchased the following; a double barrel 12ga shotgun, a pump action 12ga shotgun, a 9mm carbine, 250 9mm rounds, 15 12ga slugs, 40 shotgun shells, 2 switch blade knives, and total of 4-10 clips for the carbine. we....... have....GUNS! we fucking got em you sons of bitches! HA! HAHAHAHA! Booga Booga! heh. its all over now. this capped it off, the point of no return. I have my carbine, shotgun, ammo and knife all in my trunk tonight and theyll stay there till tomorrow...after school you know its really a shame. I had a lot of fun at that gun show, I would have loved it if you were there dad we could done some major bonding. would have been great. oh well. but alas, I fucked up and told [censored] about my "flask" that really disappoints me[censored] I know you thought it was good for me in the long run and all that shit, smart of you to give me a such big raise and then rat me out, you figure it was supposed to cancel each other? goddamn flask, that just fucked me over bigtime. now you all will be on my ass ever than before about being on track. Ill get around it though, If have to cheat and lie to everyone thats fine. THIS is what I am motivated for. THIS is my goal. THIS is what I want to do with my life! you know whats weird, I dont feel like a punching through a door of the flask deal, probly cause I am fucking armed now. I feel more confident, stronger, and more Godlike, I have confidence in my ability to deseve people, hopefully Ill make it to April, but that might not happen. Ugh, Its been a busy weekend, I need to sleep, Ill continue tomorrow. 11/22/98


Any semblance of a “normal” life didn’t intrigue Eric... at least not around this time, maybe before?



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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 07, 2019 11:41 am

Dylan gave up on any chance of a life when he started to be come suicidal.. all he thought about was suicide imo
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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 07, 2019 12:04 pm

slippy123 wrote:
QuestionMark wrote:
slippy123 wrote:
rebel2013 wrote:
Dylan was so smart with computers he'd defiantly could have been working at apple or a major computer company and being very good at it.  But his depression was so bad I don't know if he would hold a job unless he got the help that he needed to tackle the depression head on while in school, he tended to bottle his emotions because he didn't want to be seen as weak, but truth its better to get out the emotions than to spiral downhill further.  Dylan was so self-reliant that I feel like he didnt want to bother anyone with his problems and felt he could deal with them on his own but he couldnt he needed help.

I think alot of Dylan's depression came from not being able to find true love, and being stuck in Columbine where most everyone looked at him like he was a loser.
All that ends once you graduate, unfortunately neither saw the bigger picture.

I've never believed that Eric and Dylan just couldn't see past high school and their time there. I always figured that they did, to some extant anyway, look at what their futures could hold and felt that they just didn't want what was being offered. I mean Dylan made college plans and at least allegedly Eric had thought about it too, so it's not like they had no idea whatsoever of what to expect. Neither of them wanted to get a real life, a real job, go to college and get an education, because then they'd be just like the "zombies" that they so despised.

Well Eric definitely was interested in a future making video games, he even took the time to write a letter to the creators of doom talking about how he made his own levels and wanted to join their team.
I feel like if they saw his levels and offered him a position there would be a chance he would't of gone through with it.

Dylan made comments about girls when he was checking out ASU, and seemed genuinely excited, but he could of been faking it for all we know.

Maybe they were talking about working a dead end 9-5, and not a dream job.


I wonder where that came from, there was a time I read nate said it, there was a rumor that Nate was on the trip with them but we know it is not true. Was it from Far from the Tree? I think we have a few scattering things from Tom.. I thought one was about the girls at ASU and then he kind of thought Dylan having "fans" as being kind of funny and Sue is disturbed by it.

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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 07, 2019 12:16 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
slippy123 wrote:
QuestionMark wrote:
slippy123 wrote:
rebel2013 wrote:
Dylan was so smart with computers he'd defiantly could have been working at apple or a major computer company and being very good at it.  But his depression was so bad I don't know if he would hold a job unless he got the help that he needed to tackle the depression head on while in school, he tended to bottle his emotions because he didn't want to be seen as weak, but truth its better to get out the emotions than to spiral downhill further.  Dylan was so self-reliant that I feel like he didnt want to bother anyone with his problems and felt he could deal with them on his own but he couldnt he needed help.

I think alot of Dylan's depression came from not being able to find true love, and being stuck in Columbine where most everyone looked at him like he was a loser.
All that ends once you graduate, unfortunately neither saw the bigger picture.

I've never believed that Eric and Dylan just couldn't see past high school and their time there. I always figured that they did, to some extant anyway, look at what their futures could hold and felt that they just didn't want what was being offered. I mean Dylan made college plans and at least allegedly Eric had thought about it too, so it's not like they had no idea whatsoever of what to expect. Neither of them wanted to get a real life, a real job, go to college and get an education, because then they'd be just like the "zombies" that they so despised.

Well Eric definitely was interested in a future making video games, he even took the time to write a letter to the creators of doom talking about how he made his own levels and wanted to join their team.
I feel like if they saw his levels and offered him a position there would be a chance he would't of gone through with it.

Dylan made comments about girls when he was checking out ASU, and seemed genuinely excited, but he could of been faking it for all we know.

Maybe they were talking about working a dead end 9-5, and not a dream job.


I wonder where that came from, there was a time I read nate said it, there was a rumor that Nate was on the trip with them but we know it is not true. Was it from Far from the Tree? I think we have a few scattering things from Tom.. I thought one was about the girls at ASU and then he kind of thought Dylan having "fans" as being kind of funny and Sue is disturbed by it.


I think Brooks Brown mentioned the girl gawking in his book. I never heard of Tom thinking it was kind of funny that Dylan had "fans" thats a first for me.
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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 07, 2019 12:30 pm

I wish I could remember, I think it was in Far From the Trees... I don't know if it was funny but he was kind of bemused like "oh people thought my son was handsome or have empathy... huh..." and I know Sue has said she doesn't like getting letters saying how much people loved her son (I imagine that is disturbing of course) but I hope she is not mixing them up with people who have empathy and feel for him, maybe they felt like Dylan when they were younger so they feel bad for him and everyone involved... which is much different than letters saying "I wish your son was alive so I could have his babies"

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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 07, 2019 12:37 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
I wish I could remember, I think it was in Far From the Trees... I don't know if it was funny but he was kind of bemused like "oh people thought my son was handsome or have empathy... huh..." and I know Sue has said she doesn't like getting letters saying how much people loved her son (I imagine that is disturbing of course) but I hope she is not mixing them up with people who have empathy and feel for him, maybe they felt like Dylan when they were younger so they feel bad for him and everyone involved... which is much different than letters saying "I wish your son was alive so I could have his babies"


Very disturbing when people say they want to have his babies..... like seriously what is wrong with people.
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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 07, 2019 12:46 pm

rebel2013 wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
I wish I could remember, I think it was in Far From the Trees... I don't know if it was funny but he was kind of bemused like "oh people thought my son was handsome or have empathy... huh..." and I know Sue has said she doesn't like getting letters saying how much people loved her son (I imagine that is disturbing of course) but I hope she is not mixing them up with people who have empathy and feel for him, maybe they felt like Dylan when they were younger so they feel bad for him and everyone involved... which is much different than letters saying "I wish your son was alive so I could have his babies"


Very disturbing when people say they want to have his babies..... like seriously what is wrong with people.

Yes and then what would possess someone to tell his mother that??? On top of being disturbing, I am sure Sue wishes Dylan was around and well enough to have the opportunity to have a family.

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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 07, 2019 12:53 pm

The Klebolds had letters from kids who idealized Dylan, and from girls who were in love with him. “He has his own groupies,” Tom said with an ironic half smile. They were heartened by unanticipated kindnesses.

From far from the tree

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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 07, 2019 12:54 pm

I agree. I can understand empathy and compassion, but obsession and saying stuff like that to his mother is a no no. Sue is already having to deal with the loss of her son, the loss of his future, and the loss of the people he harmed & killed.
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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 07, 2019 12:56 pm

Lizpuff wrote:
The Klebolds had letters from kids who idealized Dylan, and from girls who were in love with him. “He has his own groupies,” Tom said with an ironic half smile. They were heartened by unanticipated kindnesses.

From far from the tree


Thank you Liz! I thought it was from Far from the tree.



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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 07, 2019 1:41 pm

I'd like to think there was some path they could have taken where they could have dealt with their demons and had a happy life. Perhaps Eric could have met a brilliant therapist who won his trust and got him over his insecurities. Perhaps Dylan's parents could have noticed his symptoms of depression and got him the right help too.
Eric could have found a place where he was respected and he felt confident in his own worth. Dylan could find someone who loves him and made him feel connected to humanity.
I think everyone has a path to happiness, just sometimes it is harder to find than others.
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" I had a lot of fun at that gun show, I would have loved it if you were there dad we could done some major bonding. would have been great. oh well."

he was hoping that his parents would read this
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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 07, 2019 3:48 pm

Rebbie556 wrote:
" I had a lot of fun at that gun show, I would have loved it if you were there dad we could done some major bonding. would have been great. oh well."

he was  hoping that his parents would read this  


Oh wow.

I have always misread that. I never realized he was talking directly to his father.

I have to be honest it seems like Eric loved his parents a lot more than Dylan did. Maybe not love but Eric definitely liked his parents and brother more.

I think Kevin was friends with one of the girls in the library or an older sister of one of the girls in the library and I remember reading a story about her going to see Kevin and giving him a hug and he just kept asking was it really my brother? He was devastated

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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 07, 2019 4:04 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
rebel2013 wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
I wish I could remember, I think it was in Far From the Trees... I don't know if it was funny but he was kind of bemused like "oh people thought my son was handsome or have empathy... huh..." and I know Sue has said she doesn't like getting letters saying how much people loved her son (I imagine that is disturbing of course) but I hope she is not mixing them up with people who have empathy and feel for him, maybe they felt like Dylan when they were younger so they feel bad for him and everyone involved... which is much different than letters saying "I wish your son was alive so I could have his babies"


Very disturbing when people say they want to have his babies..... like seriously what is wrong with people.

Yes and then what would possess someone to tell his mother that??? On top of being disturbing, I am sure Sue wishes Dylan was around and well enough to have the opportunity to have a family.

Kind of off topic, but it ties into the topic. Have you seen the thousands of letters Chris Watts has gotten from females saying they love him, want to have his babies, and are putting money on his books?
Not hundreds, but thousands of letters. So it isn't shocking to me that people would send the Klebold's letters like that.
It's mind boggling, but apparently there are lots of desperate crazy women out there willing to fall in love with a guy who slaughtered his two kids and pregnant wife.
Even unattractive serial killers seem to have tons of women admirers.

It's like, ok you love Dylan, but if you were in that school that day he would of probably blown your brains out.
I know that is graphic, but hey, it's the truth.


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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 07, 2019 5:48 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
Rebbie556 wrote:
" I had a lot of fun at that gun show, I would have loved it if you were there dad we could done some major bonding. would have been great. oh well."

he was  hoping that his parents would read this  


Oh wow.

I have always misread that. I never realized he was talking directly to his father.

I have to be honest it seems like Eric loved his parents a lot more than Dylan did. Maybe not love but Eric definitely liked  his parents and brother more.

I think Kevin was friends with one of the girls in the library or an older sister of one of the girls in the library and I remember reading a story about her going to see Kevin and giving him a hug and he just kept asking was it really my brother? He was devastated


I think Dylan loved his family but I also think he was so blinded by self-hatred that he started to hate everyone around him even those that truly loved him. Depression can really change someone, Tom thought he was his best friend as they would do a lot together.
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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 07, 2019 6:37 pm

rebel2013 wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
Rebbie556 wrote:
" I had a lot of fun at that gun show, I would have loved it if you were there dad we could done some major bonding. would have been great. oh well."

he was  hoping that his parents would read this  


Oh wow.

I have always misread that. I never realized he was talking directly to his father.

I have to be honest it seems like Eric loved his parents a lot more than Dylan did. Maybe not love but Eric definitely liked  his parents and brother more.

I think Kevin was friends with one of the girls in the library or an older sister of one of the girls in the library and I remember reading a story about her going to see Kevin and giving him a hug and he just kept asking was it really my brother? He was devastated


I think Dylan loved his family but I also think he was so blinded by self-hatred that he started to hate everyone around him even those that truly loved him. Depression can really change someone,  Tom thought he was his best friend as they would do a lot together.

It's hard to say how Dylan really felt about his family.
I doubt he "hated" them, and if he did have some resentment, it was probably just teenage angst.
From what we know, Dylan had a beautiful house, and a loving family that tried their hardest to keep him on track.
In hindsight, he had it fairly easy, as all his parents really asked of him was to get a job.
When you're young, you hate your parents for the dumbest stuff, like them grounding you or not letting you go out on a Friday night, sometimes holding a grudge for months or even years.
People seem to base his hatred of his family from the basement tapes, specifically the final one, just because Eric mentions his family and Dylan doesn't, but I think it's deeper than that.
They both thought the whole world was going to see them, so maybe it was a macho thing, who knows.


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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 07, 2019 6:45 pm

Somehow I think Dylan felt he was somewhat of a failure, he didnt want to disappoint anyone and I feel like it was the case when he got arrested he felt like he let his parents down and labeled himself a criminal.
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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeThu Feb 07, 2019 6:52 pm

rebel2013 wrote:
Somehow I think Dylan felt he was somewhat of a failure, he didnt want to disappoint anyone and I feel like it was the case when he got arrested he felt like he let his parents down and labeled himself a criminal.

That is very possible, I'd go as far to say in a sense Eric was like that too, as that type of feeling seems to happen a lot in military families.
From my experience, people I know who've had father's in the military are expected to behave in a certain manner, and military parents hold high expectations for their kids.
Someone brought up that Wayne Harris might of expected Eric to join the military, and was under pressure to do so. I tend to think that statement holds some weight, as I've seen this a lot personally.
That has to be the worst. Conforming to your family's expectation of a future, when every bit of you doesn't want to follow in their footsteps.
We will never know if that was the case, but if it was, no doubt that had to add to Eric's stress and had a negative effect on his well being.


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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeFri Feb 08, 2019 8:43 am

I always thought it was interesting that both E&D were the younger brothers of 2 popular older brothers. Even though the Klebold/Harris families were very different, I wonder if a similar dynamic played out that made E&D bond.
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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeFri Feb 08, 2019 1:02 pm

Pixie13 wrote:
I always thought it was interesting that both E&D were the younger brothers of 2 popular older brothers. Even though the Klebold/Harris families were very different, I wonder if a similar dynamic played out that made E&D bond.

Was Byron popular? I know Eric's brother was but I've never heard to much info on the popularity of Byron.
I also find it very weird that Eric was considered such a loser, even though his brother was popular.
I remember in high-school anyone that had a popular sibling was pretty much safeguarded.
They basically were never messed with and considered popular themselves since everyone knew their older siblings.
I knew people from a few high-schools like this, but it's possible that doesn't happen everywhere.
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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeFri Feb 08, 2019 1:34 pm

My brother was popular and had a lot of friends.

Some girls Started bullying me. My brother was a senior when I was in eighth grade and he had some underclassmen friends. The girls said that they were going to get this one guy to come beat me up and it was one of my brothers best friends and I said OK that’s good to know I’ll ask him about it when he comes over for dinner tonight. They at the very least left me alone, Not that anyone else did.

I don’t think Byron was known to be popular he was only at the school for one year. I never heard of anyone talk about knowing him. Except for Mrs. Kelly

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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeFri Feb 08, 2019 1:41 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
My brother was popular and had a lot of friends.

Some girls Started bullying me. My brother was a senior when I was in eighth grade and he had some underclassmen friends. The girls said that they were going to get this one guy to come beat me up and it was one of my brothers best friends and I said OK that’s good to know I’ll ask him about it when he comes over for dinner tonight. They at the very least left me alone, Not that anyone else did.

I don’t think Byron was known to be popular he was only at the school for one year. I never heard of anyone talk about knowing him. Except for Mrs. Kelly

Eric's brother was at Columbine for a year or two when Eric was there right?
Based off of my experiences, usually when the popular sibling is in the same school, people don't bother them, but there are always exceptions of course.
When I was in middle-school, which was a separate building from the high-school, I saw a lot of kids with siblings in high-school get bullied.
Once they got into the high-school though that all ended.
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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeFri Feb 08, 2019 1:51 pm

IIRC in the BT Dylan says how popular and athletic Byron is, how his brother and his friends constantly teased him and apart from his parents, his family treated him like the runt of the litter.
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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeFri Feb 08, 2019 1:54 pm

slippy123 wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
My brother was popular and had a lot of friends.

Some girls Started bullying me. My brother was a senior when I was in eighth grade and he had some underclassmen friends. The girls said that they were going to get this one guy to come beat me up and it was one of my brothers best friends and I said OK that’s good to know I’ll ask him about it when he comes over for dinner tonight. They at the very least left me alone, Not that anyone else did.

I don’t think Byron was known to be popular he was only at the school for one year. I never heard of anyone talk about knowing him. Except for Mrs. Kelly

Eric's brother was at Columbine for a year or two when Eric was there right?
Based off of my experiences, usually when the popular sibling is in the same school, people don't bother them, but there are always exceptions of course.
When I was in middle-school, which was a separate building from the high-school, I saw a lot of kids with siblings in high-school get bullied.
Once they got into the high-school though that all ended.


Yes, Kevin was a senior when Eric and Dylan were freshmen. I think Byron was a senior to but I’m forgetting if Byron is a little older or younger than Kevin

Pixie you are correct

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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeSat Feb 09, 2019 1:26 am

Screamingophelia wrote:
slippy123 wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
My brother was popular and had a lot of friends.

Some girls Started bullying me. My brother was a senior when I was in eighth grade and he had some underclassmen friends. The girls said that they were going to get this one guy to come beat me up and it was one of my brothers best friends and I said OK that’s good to know I’ll ask him about it when he comes over for dinner tonight. They at the very least left me alone, Not that anyone else did.

I don’t think Byron was known to be popular he was only at the school for one year. I never heard of anyone talk about knowing him. Except for Mrs. Kelly

Eric's brother was at Columbine for a year or two when Eric was there right?
Based off of my experiences, usually when the popular sibling is in the same school, people don't bother them, but there are always exceptions of course.
When I was in middle-school, which was a separate building from the high-school, I saw a lot of kids with siblings in high-school get bullied.
Once they got into the high-school though that all ended.


Yes, Kevin was a senior when Eric and Dylan were freshmen. I think Byron was a senior to but I’m forgetting if Byron is a little older or younger than Kevin

Pixie you are correct

Ah, so Eric was only in the school for a year with his brother.
I never knew Bryron was a popular kid, but that is good to know.
Columbine seems like it's in another dimension because I've never heard of a school that had so many issues.
I guess you really can't count anything out with that school during the 90's.
I remember reading somewhere that the bullying died down for a short time, but started up again shortly after.
If I recall correctly, I believe someone who went to the school in the past few years posted on here that bullying is still rampant in Columbine.
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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeSat Feb 09, 2019 10:39 am

I could see E&D having YouTube channel with their prank videos
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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeSat Feb 09, 2019 12:25 pm

slippy123 wrote:
Columbine seems like it's in another dimension because I've never heard of a school that had so many issues.

You should read some stories of schools in the inner city. My mom grew up in NYC, she's told me some stories about how bad the school system was back then. Some of the schools out here weren't too much better, either.

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PostSubject: Re: Where would they be if Columbine never happened?   Where would they be if Columbine never happened? Icon_minitimeSat Feb 09, 2019 6:10 pm

QuestionMark wrote:
slippy123 wrote:
Columbine seems like it's in another dimension because I've never heard of a school that had so many issues.

You should read some stories of schools in the inner city. My mom grew up in NYC, she's told me some stories about how bad the school system was back then. Some of the schools out here weren't too much better, either.

Yeah, I live near 2 major cities, and those inner city schools are ripe with violence and drugs, but for the most part they are understaffed, have no budget for anything, and the teachers can't even control the kids, let alone teach.
I should of clarified, I was speaking on your typical middle upper class suburban high schools.
I went to a high-school that won the state football championships twice, and there was a huge jock culture.
The jocks really didn't mess with anyone for the most part, it was more the "loser" type kids who failed out of school, that would bully people.
They just wanted attention since no one really gave it them outside of school.
The jocks took sports super seriously, and they knew one fuck up and they'd be cut from the team and lose any chance of scholarships.
The other 2 high-schools around me were huge with football and other sports too, but if any complaints were made the administration made sure they dealt with it.
I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it seemed to happen at an extreme degree at Columbine.
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