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 I don't get it?

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Jenn
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PostSubject: I don't get it?   Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:56 am

General questions about the massacre, post them here.

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PostSubject: Re: I don't get it?   Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:58 am

Should be pinned. Doing now.
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PostSubject: Re: I don't get it?   Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:39 pm

The March 15th Basement Tapes quote:
"Eric goes on to describe a "25 pound bag of #8 buckshot" which is inside the dresser, but isn't shown on the tape."

I thought nothing of it until I was reading up more on their firearms and explosives.
But upon further research... there is no such thing as #8 buckshot. Only #8 birdshot. An honest mistake, maybe.

But I mean, if you're intending to kill like 95% of your school's attendants, you'd think that one
would know what type of ammunition they're going to be using, especially if they likely bought it/and/or participated in buying it themselves, eh?

The difference between #8 birdshot and, say, 00 buckshot is actually quite large.

Quote :
Birdshot, because of its small size, does not have the mass and sectional density to penetrate deeply enough to reliably reach and damage critical blood distribution organs. Although birdshot can destroy a great volume of tissue at close range, the permanent crush cavity is usually less than 6 inches deep, and this is not deep enough to reliably include the heart or great blood vessels of the abdomen. A gruesome, shallow wound in the torso does not guarantee a quick stop, especially if the bad guy is chemically intoxicated or psychotic. If the tissue crushed by the pellets does not include a vital cardiovascular structure there's no reason for it to be an effective wound.

Many people load their shotguns with birdshot, usually #6 shot or smaller, to minimize interior wall penetration. Number 6 lead birdshot, when propelled at 1300 fps, has a maximum penetration depth potential of about 5 inches in standard ordnance gelatin. Not all of the pellets penetrate this deeply however; most of the shot will penetrate about 4 inches.

Their aim was to kill and maim, why use ammo designed to NOT damage the walls and such? Razz

According to this chart,
Shot Number/Type| |Pellet Diameter (in inches)| |Average Pellet Weight (in grains)|

#8 Birdshot: .09 | 1.07 |

00 Buckshot: .33 | 53.8 |

I wonder if he had no clue, was just makin' it up (the bag was never shown in the tapes),
Or if maybe #8 was all that was available at the time? I guess it's also a possibility that they used the
powder for their pipe bombs, but I doubt that.

Edit: Does anyone have a link or source that states what type of ammunition was found on their bodies/empty shells
located around the grounds?

I probably waaaayyyy over-thought & over-analyzed this...
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PostSubject: Re: I don't get it?   Tue May 21, 2013 9:46 pm

I think he may have been talking about something like this
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/134688/lawrence-magnum-lead-shot-8-25-lb-bag

The shot can be purchased for reloading (making your own ammunition) purposes.

He probably had a bag of shot to put into pipe bombs as shrapnel. I don't know why he would have #8 specifically, rather than a larger size buck shot. Maybe it was all he could get his hands on at the time. Hell, BB's for air rifles are larger than #8

Check out this image for size comparison of shot sizes.
http://www.crookedbough.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/birdshotsize.jpg

#8 is usually used for birds, small game, or trap (clay) shooting. Although people do use game loads and bird shot for home defense. Like renegade said, the pellets wont penetrate walls effeciently, minimizing the danger to other occupants that may be in the house, business, structure, etc.
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PostSubject: Re: I don't get it?   Thu May 23, 2013 3:03 pm

12 GAUGE SAVAGE/SPRINGFIELD PUMP ACTION SHOTGUN MODEL 67H 3" CHAMBER [CBI 20/JCSO 900] FIRED SHOT SHELLS: 25

Library East:
CBI 268/JCSO 607 [Federal 2 3/4"], CBI 274/JCSO 626 [Federal 2 3/4"], CBI 277/JCSO 638 [Federal 2 3/4"],
CBI 278/JCSO 639 [Federal 2 3/4"], CBI 280/JCSO 642 [Federal 2 3/4"], CBI 282/JCSO 658 [Federal 2 3/4"],
CBI 283/JCSO 659 [Win Super-X 3"], CBI 293/JCSO 679 [Federal 2 3/4"], CBI 296/JCSO 720 [Win Super-X 3"],

Library West:
CBI 299/JCSO 905 [Federal 2 3/4"], CBI 300/JCSO 910 [Federal 2 3/4"], CBI 303/JCSO 915 [Federal 2 3/4"],
CBI 304/JCSO 916 [Federal 2 3/4"], CBI 309/JCSO 925 [Federal 2 3/4"], CBI 310/JCSO 926 [Federal 2 3/4"],
CBI 313/JCSO 930 [Federal 2 3/4"], CBI 330/JCSO 971 [Federal 2 3/4"], CBI 331/JCSO 972 [Federal 2 3/4"],
CBI 332/JCSO 973 [Federal 2 3/4"], CBI 335/JCSO 976 [Federal 2 3/4"], CBI 36/JCSO 1095 [Chamber of Shotgun Win Super-X 3"],

Hallway Outside Library:
CBI 677/JCSO 1285 [Federal 2 3/4"],

Math/Science:
CBI 680/JCSO 1525 [Federal 2 3/4"], CBI 682/JCSO 1527 [Federal 2 3/4"],

[Administration] Offices:
CBI 937/JCSO 2512 [Win Super-X 3"],

12 GAUGE SAVAGE/STEVENS DOUBLE BARREL SHOTGUN MODEL 311D 2 3/4" CHAMBER [CBI 22/JCSO 902] FIRED SHOT SHELLS: 12

Library West:
CBI 22A/JCSO 902 [Chamber of Shotgun Federal 2 3/4"], CBI 22B/JCSO 902 [Chamber of Shotgun Federal 2 3/4"],
CBI 306/JCSO 919 [Federal 2 3/4"], CBI 307/JCSO 920 [Federal 2 3/4"], CBI 311/JCSO 927 [Federal 2 3/4"],
CBI 312/JCSO 928 [Federal 2 3/4"],

Hallway Outside Library:
CBI 675/JCSO 1253 [Federal 2 3/4"], CBI 676/JCSO 1255 [Federal 2 3/4"],

Math/Science:
CBI 685/JCSO 1530 [Federal 2 3/4"], CBI 686/JCSO 1531 [Federal 2 3/4"],

Outside:
CBI 61/JCSO 2110 [Federal #8 shot X-Lite/Trap 2 3/4"], CBI 73/JCSO 2126 [Federal #8 shot X-Lite/Trap 2 3/4"],


LIVE SHOTGUN SHELLS:

Library West:
CBI 314/JCSO 935 [Federal Premium 00 Buck 2 3/4"],
CBI 35/JCSO 1094 [Federal Premium 00 Buck 2 3/4"] - Magazine of Savage pump Shotgun [CBI 20/JCSO 900],

Main Hallway:
CBI 699/JCSO 1854 [Federal #8 shot X-Lite/Trap],
CBI 714/JCSO 1882 [Federal Premium 00 Buck 2 3/4"],
CBI 716/JCSO 1886 [Federal #8 shot X-Lite/Trap],

***Ammo pouch in Hallway Outside Library reference:

CBI 29/JCSO 1273 [1 Green Pouch with 5 Live Rounds Federal 00 Buck 2 3/4" shot shells + 2 Federal #8 shot X-Lite/Trap 2 3/4" shot shells],

CHS/Vehicles:
CBI 987/JCSO 4619 [Federal Maximum High Shock Slug 2 3/4"] - Harris' Grey Honda rear view mirror


So, apparently there were 2 fired #8 shot shells found outside [1 was on the upper stairway & 1 was by the chain link fence where Eric/Dylan were standing] & 2 live #8 shot shells found in the main hallway. Only 4 rounds of #8 shot that I have found so far.




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PostSubject: Re: I don't get it?   Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:20 am

I may be jumping the gun here (no pun intended), but do we find out whose car park spaces Eric and Dylan used on 04/20? I've not read my way through all the 11k yet, but I keep reading people saying they were parked in THEIR (as in, another student's) spot, and it's definitely been more than two people claiming that. Anyone know for sure? Thanks!

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PostSubject: Re: I don't get it?   Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:36 pm

On April 20 1999:

Dylan was in parking space 120

Eric was in parking space 371


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PostSubject: Re: I don't get it?   Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:16 pm

sororityalpha wrote:
On April 20 1999:

Dylan was in parking space 120

Eric was in parking space 371


Just to add to this point:
On 4/20 Dylan parked his car in space #120, this space belonged to Mary Glass who left the school for lunch that day at 11:15. pg(25379) Eric parked in space #371 pg(1537) the student who parks in space #370 advised IO's that this space is normally empty. He believed the student "Liza" who is
assigned space #371 is often absent.

Edit: I assume this is the same Mary Glass in the 9th Grade year book, ironically on the same page as Eric Harris:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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PostSubject: Re: I don't get it?   Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:07 am

Can anyone, (prolly alpha) point me to where in the released documents it shows Eric's letter to ID software?
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PostSubject: Re: I don't get it?   Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:01 pm

Conker64 wrote:
Can anyone, (prolly alpha) point me to where in the released documents it shows Eric's letter to ID software?

It is on pg(26626).
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PostSubject: Re: I don't get it?   Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:11 am

Who is the kid in the cafeteria hiding under the table?

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PostSubject: Re: I don't get it?   Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:59 pm

These people were under tables in that area:

Justin Cozart, William ‘Bill’ Hanifen, Lisa Forgan, Brittany Weeden, Keni Dooley, Bryan Grande, Mary Campbell.

It was one of them.

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PostSubject: Re: I don't get it?   Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:22 pm

sororityalpha wrote:
These people were under tables in that area:

Justin Cozart, William ‘Bill’ Hanifen, Lisa Forgan, Brittany Weeden, Keni Dooley, Bryan Grande, Mary Campbell.

It was one of them.


Did all of these kids left hiding in the cafeteria give witness statements?

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