Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum

A place to discuss the Columbine High School Massacre along with other school shootings and crimes.
Anyone interested in researching, learning, discussing and debating with us, please come join our community!
 
HomeHome  PortalPortal  CalendarCalendar  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  MemberlistMemberlist  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Share | 
 

 Van Incident: Eric's Version

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2
AuthorMessage
shades
Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 2766
Join date : 2016-03-05
Location : 13th Beach

PostSubject: Re: Van Incident: Eric's Version    Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:40 pm

Magnaphoria wrote:
Manipulating adults who are busy with work/their lives isn't really that difficult if you lack some morals.

He didn't manipulate Walsh, the girls who avoided him, the majority of the students or the jocks, Dan Lab who punched him, Brooks etc. He found a loophole through the Brady Bill to buy guns, he didn't go to a store where they sold guns to obviously 18+ people and he somehow managed to brainwash a seller to give him guns.

The people in diversion were probably easy to manipulate because they expected problem-kids who were in gangs, using dangerous drugs etc which created this illusion that they were two geniuses who tricked all these experienced adults.

Also a master manipulator doesn't kill himself (imo) because his success at deceiving people brings advantages (romantic, financial) that make life easier and bearable. My bottom-line opinion is that Eric's demise was his self-hatred.

PS: He said in his AOL profile that some call him handsome alluding to the fact that he's charming to women which seems to only have translated in his probable fantasies. He most likely (though doubtfully cause of Sasha on the kissing part) died a kissless virgin.

Very well put. This is perfect. What about Dylan? I think he cleverly worked his way around Eric to be his partner, and so many other things possibly.

_________________
Will you remain my fire in this temporary paradise?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
shades
Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 2766
Join date : 2016-03-05
Location : 13th Beach

PostSubject: Re: Van Incident: Eric's Version    Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:42 pm

sscc wrote:
I can't say whether they were actively planning yet but I believe they already had this in mind by the time of the van break-in. Two reasons for this.

1) Dylan mentions a killing spree in his journal entry from November 1997.
2) In the Basement Tapes, the boys make reference to shootings in Kentucky and Arkansas and say that they had the idea before either of these happened.
Arkansas was the Jonesboro shooting by Andrew Golden and Mitchell Johnson in March of 1998. However, Kentucky was the shooting by Michael Carneal in December of 1997. If we take the boys at their word (and we can corroborate this statement with the fact that Dylan, at the very least, was already thinking of something like this a month before Carneal's shooting) then we can see that this plan was already forming before the van break-in ever happened.

@Eric Harris wrote:
Do not think we’re trying to copy anyone. We had the idea before the first one ever happened. Our plan is better, not like those fucks in Kentucky with camouflage and .22s.

Nice work [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]!

_________________
Will you remain my fire in this temporary paradise?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
aquillina



Posts : 438
Join date : 2016-05-25

PostSubject: Re: Van Incident: Eric's Version    Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:26 pm

Eric Harris wrote:
Do not think we’re trying to copy anyone. We had the idea before the first one ever happened. Our plan is better, not like those fucks in Kentucky with camouflage and .22s.
Did Eric really say that in the Basement Tapes? affraid

_________________
I have nothing to live for, & I won't be able to survive in this world. However, if it was true that you loved me as I do you,... I would find a way to survive. Anything to be with you.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
sscc
Top Contributor


Posts : 503
Join date : 2016-02-27

PostSubject: Re: Van Incident: Eric's Version    Mon Sep 19, 2016 4:13 pm

aquillina wrote:
Eric Harris wrote:
Do not think we’re trying to copy anyone. We had the idea before the first one ever happened. Our plan is better, not like those fucks in Kentucky with camouflage and .22s.
Did Eric really say that in the Basement Tapes? affraid
According to the transcript here, yes.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
A Columbine Site actually says that this part of the transcript referenced the "Oregon and Kentucky" shootings instead of Arkansas and Kentucky which would refer to Kip Kinkel in May of 1998.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
But they both seem to mention Kentucky with that specific quote.

The interesting thing is that he says "those fucks" but Kentucky was just one perpetrator. However, the Arkansas shooting was a duo just like Eric and Dylan. This is what their plan was according to Wikipedia:
As they arrived, Golden pulled the fire alarm while Johnson took the weapons to the woods outside of the school. Golden then ran back to the woods where Johnson had taken the weapons. When children and teachers filed out of the school, the two boys opened fire. The boys killed four female students and one teacher and wounded ten others. Golden and Johnson attempted to run back to the van and escape, but police captured them.
I wonder if Eric and Dylan were always planning to frighten people out of the school and pick them off or whether they were inspired by these two.

Now I'm getting off topic but I do wonder if these previous shootings were, in any way, an influence or encouragement for them. Eric took the time to mention them in the Basement Tapes nearly a year later so it was obviously something that stuck in his mind but maybe it was just that he felt like they missed out on being the first ones to do it so he had to make sure that people knew that he wasn't "copying" anyone.

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
View user profile
shades
Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 2766
Join date : 2016-03-05
Location : 13th Beach

PostSubject: Re: Van Incident: Eric's Version    Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:02 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I think that's a well-deserved thread of its own, cause that's a very good eye. got me thinking now. To reference two past shooting incidents such as that makes me wonder how long have they thought of a school attack or if their built up rage made them resort to that but they got reminded of it happening before so it was a sudden statement like Oh yeah it happened before didn't it, well fuck that attack we're gonna do ours better. (Which infact wasn't better but Columbine ended up insanely popular.)

_________________
Will you remain my fire in this temporary paradise?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Magnaphoria

avatar

Posts : 147
Join date : 2014-04-16

PostSubject: Re: Van Incident: Eric's Version    Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:33 pm

shades wrote:


Very well put. This is perfect. What about Dylan? I think he cleverly worked his way around Eric to be his partner, and so many other things possibly.

I believe people think of Dylan as a better manipulator because it's a sort of romantic idea. The manipulator Eric was, in the end, manipulated by an even more cunning manipulator! Sounds like a great story. To me, Dylan didn't need to put much effort into Eric, probably no effort at all. You got a car slowly moving to the edge of a cliff and you put your finger on it to move a tiiiiiiiiiiny bit faster. The result is still the same.

Imo Eric was really fucked up beyond what we know thus I'm sure there are things that happened that we'll never find out. The soccer incident, at least by Sue's account, gave me the impression that he had serious emotional issues and they knew what to do about it because they've seen it many times before. Dylan didn't need to do much of anything to get what he wanted. I think he got his death effortlessly.

Now these are all just speculations so all of this could be only in my head but it's just what my instinct tells me.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
aquillina



Posts : 438
Join date : 2016-05-25

PostSubject: Re: Van Incident: Eric's Version    Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:40 pm

shades wrote:
Which in fact wasn't better but Columbine ended up insanely popular.
And that's exactly what it did: Virginia Tech, Red Lake, Northern Illinois, Sandy Hook, I could go on forever.

_________________
I have nothing to live for, & I won't be able to survive in this world. However, if it was true that you loved me as I do you,... I would find a way to survive. Anything to be with you.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
shades
Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 2766
Join date : 2016-03-05
Location : 13th Beach

PostSubject: Re: Van Incident: Eric's Version    Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:41 pm

Magnaphoria wrote:
I believe people think of Dylan as a better manipulator because it's a sort of romantic idea. The manipulator Eric was, in the end, manipulated by an even more cunning manipulator! Sounds like a great story. To me, Dylan didn't need to put much effort into Eric, probably no effort at all. You got a car slowly moving to the edge of a cliff and you put your finger on it to move a tiiiiiiiiiiny bit faster. The result is still the same.

Imo Eric was really fucked up beyond what we know thus I'm sure there are things that happened that we'll never find out. The soccer incident, at least by Sue's account, gave me the impression that he had serious emotional issues and they knew what to do about it because they've seen it many times before. Dylan didn't need to do much of anything to get what he wanted. I think he got his death effortlessly.

Now these are all just speculations so all of this could be only in my head but it's just what my instinct tells me.

I appreciate your point of view because it has me study greatly that regardless of which of the two may have been a better manipulator, the effort is almost redundant because like you said the car is already on the edge of the cliff so it doesn't take a genius to take advantage and move it slowly but faster. But it's also fucked up. We almost admire the friendship Eric and Dylan share to be loyal in crime but it's a toxic dynamic between the two, both used for their own means, and endgame is a tragedy.

_________________
Will you remain my fire in this temporary paradise?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
shades
Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 2766
Join date : 2016-03-05
Location : 13th Beach

PostSubject: Re: Van Incident: Eric's Version    Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:44 pm

aquillina wrote:
And that's exactly what it did: Virginia Tech, Red Lake, Northern Illinois, Sandy Hook, I could go on forever.

Eric and Dylan already won. You know why? Cause like Grant Whitus said, it's not about the body count or how extravagant the next massacre is anymore, AS LONG AS it keeps happening, Columbine will ALWAYS be referenced and all the fucktards out there is helping having the name live on and on. So nice job boys, unfortunately you got exactly what you wanted.

_________________
Will you remain my fire in this temporary paradise?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
jada887

avatar

Posts : 61
Join date : 2016-09-29
Age : 33
Location : Santa Monica, California

PostSubject: Re: Van Incident: Eric's Version    Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:35 pm

Well,  Eric wrote in his journal that he took pleasure in lying to others to save his own skin. He even lied to his parents about his alcohol stash in his bedroom after Brooks told his mother.

Anyways, back to the van incident. Dylan admitted to his mother that the idea to break into the van was a joint decision. In hindsight, I think it was rather ingenious of Eric to serve as the look-out for a while. That way, if the police arrive, as they did, Dylan would look guilty as charged. What is most interesting about this ordeal is the bullshit story Eric told Deputy Walsh about the electronics scattered around the park. Dylan supported him, but when Walsh told E/D that he was calling back-up, Eric looked to Dylan for relief. He ran out of lies, and because he knew he wasn't dealing with his parents and couldn't manipulate Walsh, he felt ashamed.
My belief is that Eric and Dylan got bored, looked into a deserted van out of curiosity, and saw a stash of electronics in the front seat. Both boys didn't think they would get caught, so Eric enlisted Dylan to break the van's window with a rock, as he was the tallest, and Dylan agreed because he wanted the computers. When Dylan couldn't break the window, Eric pitched in.
But Dylan wasn't a mere follower. I believe he wanted to break into the van just as much as Eric. Eric probably wanted to make sure that if was to commit this crime, Dylan better make sure that no one could see them (that's probably why he was reluctant at first.) That's because Eric is calculating, whereas Dylan acts on a whim, a fleeting fancy.


Last edited by jada887 on Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:03 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
jada887

avatar

Posts : 61
Join date : 2016-09-29
Age : 33
Location : Santa Monica, California

PostSubject: Re: Van Incident: Eric's Version    Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:04 pm

[quote="Lizpuff"]
Lizpuff wrote:
.  I guess the very first time I heard of Columbine though there is the whole Cullen attitude of how Dylan was a follower and just depressed etc..  

Although I don't completely agree with Cullen and believe Dylan had a mind of his own, I do think he needed Eric to snap him out of his passivity and self-loathing. True, he was like Eric; he knew how to act around adults and his friends, but we have to take Dylan's actions and writings into context. Whenever he is around Eric, Dylan's writing takes a darker tone. But when he writes about himself, he is full of anger and sadness. What are we to do with these two Dylans? We can see that Dylan already had some anger in his emotional toolbox, but that anger quickly dissolves into self-loathing. Although he does lash out at others, he quickly pulls out. Eric, who was already playing with fireworks and matches as young as 9, showed him what he could do with that anger.
I know Dylan wrote that sentence about NBK in November of 1997. But the Brown's police report shows that they alerted police to Eric's website in August of 1997(they would file four more throughout the years, even one on Eric threatening Aaron at the mall.) That website also lists the bombs that Eric and Dylan were building and testing. That is months before the November 1997 entry. Zack Heckler even mentions the fact that his mother, Veronica Heckler, did not want her son to hang around Eric because of his extensive bomb manufacturing in 1996. I seriously doubt Dylan had the idea before November '97. There is too much evidence to suggest otherwise.


Last edited by jada887 on Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:26 pm; edited 4 times in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile
jada887

avatar

Posts : 61
Join date : 2016-09-29
Age : 33
Location : Santa Monica, California

PostSubject: Re: Van Incident: Eric's Version    Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:43 pm

[quote="shades"]
aquillina wrote:
So nice job boys, unfortunately you got exactly what you wanted.


Um, how so? They only killed 10 people, whereas the plan was to destroy the entire school, although propane bombs are the worst explosives to use to achieve that purpose because they are difficult to detonate.
Anyway, people who look to these guys for inspiration are already mentally disturbed, and the Columbine massacre gives them a rationale and a blueprint to achieve whatever suits their fancy.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
shades
Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 2766
Join date : 2016-03-05
Location : 13th Beach

PostSubject: Re: Van Incident: Eric's Version    Fri Sep 30, 2016 1:51 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] they created a legacy. Failed body count and bombs aside, I don't think it's my imagination that Eric implied wanting to cause a Long lasting impression and leave survivors around to tell their stories. The clever choice of leaving foreshadows and journal entries around paid off.

_________________
Will you remain my fire in this temporary paradise?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
aquillina



Posts : 438
Join date : 2016-05-25

PostSubject: Re: Van Incident: Eric's Version    Fri Sep 30, 2016 10:30 am

And don't forget the fangirls they've garnished over the years.

_________________
I have nothing to live for, & I won't be able to survive in this world. However, if it was true that you loved me as I do you,... I would find a way to survive. Anything to be with you.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
jada887

avatar

Posts : 61
Join date : 2016-09-29
Age : 33
Location : Santa Monica, California

PostSubject: Re: Van Incident: Eric's Version    Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:52 pm

shades wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] The clever choice of leaving foreshadows and journal entries around paid off.

Yes, but I mostly blame the 24 hour news cycle for Columbine's notoriety. In 1999, the 24 hour news circuit was a new phenomenon, so we were bombarded by images of E/D and Columbine High maps on the TV screen. High body counts matter on Tv, and so that's what gets the most coverage. Columbine never became the Oklahoma City bombing, what Eric hoped to copy, but as far as school shootings, Columbine certainly is the most infamous, for reasons I've already mentioned.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
jada887

avatar

Posts : 61
Join date : 2016-09-29
Age : 33
Location : Santa Monica, California

PostSubject: Re: Van Incident: Eric's Version    Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:58 pm

aquillina wrote:
And don't forget the fangirls they've garnished over the years.

And that has always disgusted me. But I don't blame them. They are most likely troubled kids, much like Eric and Dylan.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Lizpuff
Top 10 Contributor
avatar

Posts : 1758
Join date : 2016-03-02
Age : 29

PostSubject: Re: Van Incident: Eric's Version    Fri Sep 30, 2016 4:05 pm

jada887 wrote:
shades wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] The clever choice of leaving foreshadows and journal entries around paid off.

Yes, but I mostly blame the 24 hour news cycle for Columbine's notoriety. In 1999, the 24 hour news circuit was a new phenomenon, so we were bombarded by images of E/D and Columbine High maps on the TV screen. High body counts matter on Tv, and so that's what gets the most coverage. Columbine never became the Oklahoma City bombing, what Eric hoped to copy, but as far as school shootings, Columbine certainly is the most infamous, for reasons I've already mentioned.

Might be an area specific thing, but I tend to think Columbine is more widely known and talked about in my area than the OK bombing. Not that people don't know about it but it isn't talked about as much.

There is another thread here alluding to why people think this is a very famous event. There are a ton of reasons this massacre stands above the rest.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Imperator

avatar

Posts : 75
Join date : 2016-10-06

PostSubject: Re: Van Incident: Eric's Version    Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:23 pm

Guest wrote:
Eric's a self-admitted liar who lied to keep his ass out of trouble, so I am not at all surprised with his version of events. The "I wish I hadn't done it" will always, always be "I wish I didn't get caught" to me. I have no doubt that the van break-in and subsequent diversion program had a huge impact on both boys, but at the core of the matter I think the only regrets for both were getting caught and losing a significant portion of trust with their parents because of it. I don't think Eric had the leadership in everything, though. I think that Dylan's account of events may be most accurate -- I've always seen that night as them talking/hanging out and getting bored and eventually doing something stupidly juvenile to pass the time. I think the idea for the break-in is reminiscent of the idea for NBK, as in that I don't think either one of them could've pinpointed exactly what got the idea started and how they ended up eventually doing it.

Eric's lying was self preservation to hide later on his activities. There is no evidence pre van incident that Eric was a liar. I am a firm believer in what I have read regarding Eric that he was far more honest with who he was a person. For good or ill.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Imperator

avatar

Posts : 75
Join date : 2016-10-06

PostSubject: Re: Van Incident: Eric's Version    Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:28 pm

Lizpuff wrote:
jada887 wrote:
shades wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] The clever choice of leaving foreshadows and journal entries around paid off.

Yes, but I mostly blame the 24 hour news cycle for Columbine's notoriety. In 1999, the 24 hour news circuit was a new phenomenon, so we were bombarded by images of E/D and Columbine High maps on the TV screen. High body counts matter on Tv, and so that's what gets the most coverage. Columbine never became the Oklahoma City bombing, what Eric hoped to copy, but as far as school shootings, Columbine certainly is the most infamous, for reasons I've already mentioned.

Might be an area specific thing, but I tend to think Columbine is more widely known and talked about in my area than the OK bombing.  Not that people don't know about it but it isn't talked about as much.

There is another thread here alluding to why people think this is a very famous event.  There are a ton of reasons this massacre stands above the rest.

OKC bombing was motivated by political ideology and perception and although kids (very young ones) perished it's overshadowed by the premise of the motivation of the actual bombing.  Columbine was school culture involving "kids" gunning down "kids".  It raises eyebrows.  Whats wrong with our school culture??  


Nothing really.  It's the way it's been and will always be.  Being a parent of kids in Middle school, bullying to one extent still exists.  It's what you you do as a parent to teach your kids on how to handle situations.  

Kids are mean, hell adults are mean.  Humans are mean.  Shoot I am mean.  That is reality.  

I teach my kids there is life outside of school.  Bullying is a weak trait.  I don't have the answers but hope it sticks in their head.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
jada887

avatar

Posts : 61
Join date : 2016-09-29
Age : 33
Location : Santa Monica, California

PostSubject: Re: Van Incident: Eric's Version    Sat Oct 29, 2016 8:22 pm

Quote :

OKC bombing was motivated by political ideology and perception

I think Eric might have wanted to emulate the scale and notoriety of the Oklahoma City bombing but not Timothy McVeigh's motives.

Quote :
Columbine was school culture involving "kids" gunning down "kids".  It raises eyebrows.

Absolutely. There's every indication that Columbine was an awful school. I can't imagine administrators allowing school jocks to set someone's hair on fire, or punch less popular kids in the hallways and classrooms without taking serious disciplinary actions on the culprits. I have always believed Columbine'stoxic bullying culture gave the two boys a strong justification for their violent actions. Think about it this way: everyone who attended Columbine and witnessed its toxic culture wasn't surprised by the attack, only that it hadn't happened sooner.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Imperator

avatar

Posts : 75
Join date : 2016-10-06

PostSubject: Re: Van Incident: Eric's Version    Sat Oct 29, 2016 8:35 pm

jada887 wrote:
Quote :

OKC bombing was motivated by political ideology and perception

I think Eric might have wanted to emulate the scale and notoriety of the Oklahoma City bombing but not Timothy McVeigh's motives.

Quote :
Columbine was school culture involving "kids" gunning down "kids".  It raises eyebrows.

Absolutely. There's every indication that Columbine was an awful school. I can't imagine administrators allowing school jocks to set someone's hair on fire, or punch less popular kids in the hallways and classrooms without taking serious disciplinary actions on the culprits. I have always believed Columbine'stoxic bullying culture gave the two boys a strong justification for their violent actions. Think about it this way: everyone who attended Columbine and witnessed its toxic culture wasn't surprised by the attack, only that it hadn't happened sooner.

No doubt Eric wanted mass cas results. He said so, he wanted to kick start a revolution. What this so called revolution was intended to be aside from carnage and death is beyond me.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
 
Van Incident: Eric's Version
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 2 of 2Go to page : Previous  1, 2
 Similar topics
-
» Pokemon Black & White version 2
» Warriors: Dog Version.
» The Black-and-White Thunderbolt
» 110311 No Korean version of ‘Mr.Taxi’
» Agrona's Ceremony { Revived Version }

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum :: Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum :: Thoughts on the Shooting-
Jump to: