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Koltin



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PostSubject: basement tapes   Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:02 am

first of all i dont think this is the right place to post this but 189 people has signed a petition that needs 200 signatures to release the basement tapes
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PostSubject: Re: basement tapes   Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:52 am

spammed the petition now has 201 signatures jefferson county has to release them now  Laughing  Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: basement tapes   Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:21 pm

Sincerely, I don't think they will release the basement tapes for this reason and it seems that now it doesnt need 200 signatures anymore, but 300

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PostSubject: Re: basement tapes   Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:32 am

fuck... now i has to spam again  Evil or Very Mad 
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PostSubject: Re: basement tapes   Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:32 pm

This "petition" is phony and an insult to the victims and no one is ever going to believe this is real.
Apparently, according to this "petition", Craig Scott signed it and said "They killed my sister, but I love them"? Wow, some people can be really cruel, huh?

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PostSubject: Re: basement tapes   Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:23 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
This "petition" is phony and an insult to the victims and no one is ever going to believe this is real.
Apparently, according to this "petition", Craig Scott signed it and said "They killed my sister, but I love them"? Wow, some people can be really cruel, huh?

Oh, wow, that is rather deranged. Anyone can make a petition about anything, especially nowadays online. From what I have seen, very rarely are many of them taken seriously. In the rare cases where they are taken seriously, it only seems to work well if the the undersigned conduct themselves in a sincere and respectful fashion while participating. When those who sign make ridiculously disrespectful comments like the one you mentioned, along with other foolishness, like signing it "Frank DeAngelis" and saying something to the effect of "Even I want to see these tapes", and signing it "George Bush" and so on-----I truly cannot comprehend how anyone thinks that it is going to yield any sort of favorable result.

I wish they'd get it into their heads that when they choose to act like this anywhere at all it is just driving the final nail into the metaphorical coffin.

JeffCo appears to be an incredibly corrupt organization, to start. These people have had no intention of releasing these tapes, essentially since day one, a decade and a half ago. Secondly, there is really no doubt (but no solid proof that I can recall, but anyone with such proof, please correct me, because many bits and pieces have become very hazy for me as the years have passed)---there is strong reason to believe that both the Klebolds and the Harris' (and their attorneys) have tried to prevent the release of these, as well. The easy excuse, which was probably partially valid back in 1999 and the early 2000s, was the "fear of inspiring copy cats" excuse. We do know that is ridiculous at this stage, but considering things like this petition, which is just the tip of the tip of the tip of the iceberg, they are probably going to keep them from the public forever.

To anyone who thinks they can get these people to reverse their decision concerning these tapes, bear the following in mind:

Although it is more than likely not going to stop everyone from approaching the situation in this idiotic manner, remember that doing things like this, and emailing people from JeffCo and then sending the same email address across places like tumblr, encouraging others to bombard them with immature, obnoxious, pseudo threatening requests doesn't help anything AT ALL. It is making it worse. Once again, their minds are pretty much made up as it is, and have been long, LONG before the majority of you ever started paying any attention to this case. If one wants to effect change, they need to behave with at least an inkling of tact and basic intelligence.
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PostSubject: Re: basement tapes   Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:55 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
This "petition" is phony and an insult to the victims and no one is ever going to believe this is real.
Apparently, according to this "petition", Craig Scott signed it and said "They killed my sister, but I love them"? Wow, some people can be really cruel, huh?

Oh, wow, that is rather deranged. Anyone can make a petition about anything, especially nowadays online. From what I have seen, very rarely are many of them taken seriously. In the rare cases where they are taken seriously, it only seems to work well if the the undersigned conduct themselves in a sincere and respectful fashion while participating. When those who sign make ridiculously disrespectful comments like the one you mentioned, along with other foolishness, like signing it "Frank DeAngelis" and saying something to the effect of "Even I want to see these tapes", and signing it "George Bush" and so on-----I truly cannot comprehend how anyone thinks that it is going to yield any sort of favorable result.

I wish they'd get it into their heads that when they choose to act like this anywhere at all it is just driving the final nail into the metaphorical coffin.

JeffCo appears to be an incredibly corrupt organization, to start. These people have had no intention of releasing these tapes, essentially since day one, a decade and a half ago. Secondly, there is really no doubt (but no solid proof that I can recall, but anyone with such proof, please correct me, because many bits and pieces have become very hazy for me as the years have passed)---there is strong reason to believe that both the Klebolds and the Harris' (and their attorneys) have tried to prevent the release of these, as well. The easy excuse, which was probably partially valid back in 1999 and the early 2000s, was the "fear of inspiring copy cats" excuse. We do know that is ridiculous at this stage, but considering things like this petition, which is just the tip of the tip of the tip of the iceberg, they are probably going to keep them from the public forever.

To anyone who thinks they can get these people to reverse their decision concerning these tapes, bear the following in mind:

Although it is more than likely not going to stop everyone from approaching the situation in this idiotic manner, remember that doing things like this, and emailing people from JeffCo and then sending the same email address across places like tumblr, encouraging others to bombard them with immature, obnoxious, pseudo threatening requests doesn't help anything AT ALL. It is making it worse. Once again, their minds are pretty much made up as it is, and have been long, LONG before the majority of you ever started paying any attention to this case. If one wants to effect change, they need to behave with at least an inkling of tact and basic intelligence.

No you are not incorrect, The Harris' tried to prevent the release of these tapes too so you are totally right. JeffCo is not going to release these tapes and even more with the fact that many of the signatures are very ridiculous and offensive. I didnt see them and I dont need to see them now but I find this very disrespectful and kind of stupid because like you said, any petition or person won't convince them to release them.

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PostSubject: Re: basement tapes   Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:28 am

Quote :
JeffCo appears to be an incredibly corrupt organization, to start. These people have had no intention of releasing these tapes, essentially since day one, a decade and a half ago. Secondly, there is really no doubt (but no solid proof that I can recall, but anyone with such proof, please correct me, because many bits and pieces have become very hazy for me as the years have passed)---there is strong reason to believe that both the Klebolds and the Harris' (and their attorneys) have tried to prevent the release of these, as well. The easy excuse, which was probably partially valid back in 1999 and the early 2000s, was the "fear of inspiring copy cats" excuse. We do know that is ridiculous at this stage, but considering things like this petition, which is just the tip of the tip of the tip of the iceberg, they are probably going to keep them from the public forever.
still there has been some "copy cat" shootings. like Virginia tech or sandy hook. Still shootings happen the tapes might learn us new warning signs and maybe prevent shootings.
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PostSubject: Re: basement tapes   Sat Feb 15, 2014 2:18 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:


No you are not incorrect, The Harris' tried to prevent the release of these tapes too so you are totally right. JeffCo is not going to release these tapes and even more with the fact that many of the signatures are very ridiculous and offensive. I didnt see them and I dont need to see them now but I find this very disrespectful and kind of stupid because like you said, any petition or person won't convince them to release them.


Thank you for looking into that. I knew the Klebolds didn't want them released for certain, but I honestly couldn't remember for sure if the Harrises did, as well. They probably won't ever release them, and there are very curious reasons on their end as to why, but rabid, fanatical nonsense isn't helping it in any way, either. The majority of them have no idea how to express themselves with a modicum of respect or intelligence. I know there are some very young people who are new to the case who are naturally brilliant, well spoken, open minded, and deeply respectful. However, they are few and far between, and they unfortunately get drowned out with the tidal wave of imbecilic swill from the others.




[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Quote :
JeffCo appears to be an incredibly corrupt organization, to start. These people have had no intention of releasing these tapes, essentially since day one, a decade and a half ago. Secondly, there is really no doubt (but no solid proof that I can recall, but anyone with such proof, please correct me, because many bits and pieces have become very hazy for me as the years have passed)---there is strong reason to believe that both the Klebolds and the Harris' (and their attorneys) have tried to prevent the release of these, as well. The easy excuse, which was probably partially valid back in 1999 and the early 2000s, was the "fear of inspiring copy cats" excuse. We do know that is ridiculous at this stage, but considering things like this petition, which is just the tip of the tip of the tip of the iceberg, they are probably going to keep them from the public forever.
still there has been some "copy cat" shootings. like Virginia tech or sandy hook. Still shootings happen the tapes might learn us new warning signs and maybe prevent shootings.


That is precisely my point.

Once upon a time in 1999 through about 2001-02 or so (perhaps a little later) there was probably a slight validity in using that excuse (copy cats), but now, it is ridiculous, considering Virginia Tech and Sandy Hook.

Regardless, they still use it as an excuse. However, it was said back in 2006, just as they were getting ready to release the 900 documents with their journals and so on, that they were well aware that Eric and Dylan WANTED to be memorialized, and that they refused to give them what they wanted, hence another reason to not release them.

You can hear Ted Mink discussing this in this clip.

(I copied the video link at the point in the video where he specifically says this. If you want to watch it in its entirety, rewind it, or click on the link I am posting below).

I also posted this [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] almost a year ago.

Add the fact that both Dylan and Eric's parents' attorneys have also requested they remain out of the public's hands.

Making petitions like this, where people sign with foolish signatures and moronic commentary, and when they are also doing other things, like what I have seen people on tumblr do in the last two years (sending primarily obnoxious messages to email addresses at JeffCo, and telling everyone else to do the same), is destroying any glimmer of a chance at getting them to change their minds, if said glimmer of a chance even exists at all.

This behavior I am focusing on in this post and my earlier post is EXACTLY what Mink said they were NOT going to play into. That said, I am sure they are aware of how badly the "cult" has mushroomed over the last decade, and it wouldn't be a remote surprise to find out that they will never release them after seeing all of this insanity.

I have been looking into this subject for about a decade, and there were ALWAYS people who "supported" them and praised them, and fangirls. BUT, it was NEVER to the point that it is now. NOT EVER. You'd see a few extreme people, and even other die-hards would tell them to tone it down. There was so much less to go on; so much less to read and watch back then, but for whatever reason, even the hardcore, worshiping fanatics seemed to understand and know more facts than the "fans" these days. And that is ludicrous considering that they have so much more available to them in this day and age, all over the internet, for free.

The point I am making with this is: the way they act is exactly what JeffCo says they want to avoid. They're already acting like this without the "ammunition" (the tapes), so I am sure they do not want to see what would happen if they were released.

I think they should be released, myself, but reality is telling me that they won't be, and when it comes to the over the top, delusional fanatics, I have to say that I am glad they probably aren't going to be released.
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PostSubject: Re: basement tapes   Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:58 am

If they release it i think the tapes is gonna be heavly censored like the leaked clip of dylan and eric talking about the "Godly little whore".
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PostSubject: Re: basement tapes   Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:21 pm

I see those tapes finally release, in 30 years or more, because censored or not, it. still would have many reactions and would attract more fans, something that obviously not many.people want. And there is still the fact that in some parts Eric and Dylan look like normal teenagers and i think that in one of the last tapes Eric is like crying and that is something that JeffCo and many others don't want that we see.The media, the police and many people, like to show Eric and Dylan like monsters that did the massacre because they wanted. it without any reason and many times they are really mean on the tapes but not in all the tapes so if.those tapes are release now, they will just release some.of them and not everything or they will but in 30 years or 20 when the Columbine Massacre will be something of 3 generations ago and the fandom won't be so big like now but still with interested people around. I know some cases of 40 years ago with all the evidence finally release but for that the media and the.people including investigators, had to wait 30 years and is complicated because now there are more questions than answers. I also want to see these tapes out for us but is better wait until the right moment and now for me is not the right moment for what I explained before and I am sure that these websites asking for signatures won't help at all and will just make this situation more difficult

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PostSubject: Re: basement tapes   Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:36 am

There was a discussion recently about the notes of a journalist who saw the basement tapes shortly after the shooting. It was clear that Eric & Dylan made fun of their parents and other people for not catching on to what they were planning, not searching their rooms, etc.

Imagine having the basement tapes come out all the openings it gives for lawsuits. Imagine all the elements you would then have that suggest the kids were not raised properly or did not receive the appropriate treatment. It would be too easy to blame the parents even more than they already were if the basement tapes came out. That is why they will never come out while the parents are alive, in my opinion. But they will come out one day. Even the name of Deep Throat came out, everything comes out at some point.

From what I've heard, I don't think it has anything to do with Eric looking endearing when he is crying on tape, the kids being so human and relatable because of the tapes. On the contrary, I think they look quite human the way they appear now but, if we saw the basement tapes, they would both look sillier. They would look like crazy teenagers even more if we could see them talk about their plan for the shooting. Just think of Eric's mad rant that has been recorded for a few seconds, off one of the basement tapes. Eric kissing his gun in a burst of enthusiasm. Can you take almost 4 hours of that craziness?

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PostSubject: Re: basement tapes   Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:59 am

Very good points, JayJay.

The potential for lawsuits is an enormous part of the issue, and that is why it goes back to their parents having legally stopped them in some way, among many other variables that we can speculate on, as well as the reasons publicly given by the sheriff. It's not one simple reason, just like the massacre itself wasn't for one simple, tidy reason, either.




**Just a note for clarification, in case it is misinterpreted by some:

The "Deep Throat" that JayJay is referencing is Mark Felt, the once unknown/un-named informant in the Watergate scandal of the early 1970s in the U.S. It has nothing to do with any salacious film.
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PostSubject: Re: basement tapes   Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:42 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:


**Just a note for clarification, in case it is misinterpreted by some:

The "Deep Throat" that JayJay is referencing is Mark Felt, the once unknown/un-named informant in the Watergate scandal of the early 1970s in the U.S. It has nothing to do with any salacious film.

Very Happy   Yeah, I forgot to mention that. I wouldn't want this thread to disappear.  Laughing 

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PostSubject: Re: basement tapes   Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:35 am

well guys i found a hires photo of dylan and eric in the library shooting at cops
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PostSubject: Re: basement tapes   Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:44 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
There was a discussion recently about the notes of a journalist who saw the basement tapes shortly after the shooting. It was clear that Eric & Dylan made fun of their parents and other people for not catching on to what they were planning, not searching their rooms, etc.

Imagine having the basement tapes come out all the openings it gives for lawsuits. Imagine all the elements you would then have that suggest the kids were not raised properly or did not receive the appropriate treatment. It would be too easy to blame the parents even more than they already were if the basement tapes came out. That is why they will never come out while the parents are alive, in my opinion. But they will come out one day. Even the name of Deep Throat came out, everything comes out at some point.

From what I've heard, I don't think it has anything to do with Eric looking endearing when he is crying on tape, the kids being so human and relatable because of the tapes. On the contrary, I think they look quite human the way they appear now but, if we saw the basement tapes, they would both look sillier. They would look like crazy teenagers even more if we could see them talk about their plan for the shooting. Just think of Eric's mad rant that has been recorded for a few seconds, off one of the basement tapes. Eric kissing his gun in a burst of enthusiasm. Can you take almost 4 hours of that craziness?

You are right, I didn't realize till now that many things on the tapes could give more reasons to blame the parents and this could be the reason of why they tried to prevent the release. Something that makes harder their release now and that convince me even more that is better wait more years to watch them.

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PostSubject: Re: basement tapes   Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:31 am

I'm of the personal opinion that JeffCo is prolonging it until curiosity in the case dies down and then the pressure to release them is gone so won't bother. I don't think they ever plan on making them visible to the public, for reasons I'm not sure about but I don't think we'll ever see them.

Parents not wanting them to be public I can understand. I wouldn't want people seeing my child in that light either, no matter what they'd have done. Love for your child doesn't just disappear because they've murdered and are dead.

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PostSubject: Re: basement tapes   Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:51 am

If there are 100,000 of us who want them released we can always start a petition at whitehouse.gov after 100,000 signatures the president HAS to make an official statement.
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PostSubject: Re: basement tapes   Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:33 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
If there are 100,000 of us who want them released we can always start a petition at whitehouse.gov after 100,000 signatures the president HAS to make an official statement.

I doubt we will ever get there. Even reaching 300 seems hard, let alone 97,700 more.
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PostSubject: Re: basement tapes   Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:11 pm

@JayJay wrote:
They would look like crazy teenagers even more if we could see them talk about their plan for the shooting. Just think of Eric's mad rant that has been recorded for a few seconds, off one of the basement tapes. Eric kissing his gun in a burst of enthusiasm. Can you take almost 4 hours of that craziness?


I think one of the strongest reasons the tapes are being held back is the Klebold family. People often forget that Sue Klebold comes from a very rich and powerful family: "Sue was from a prominent Jewish community there, granddaughter of the late philanthropist and construction magnate Leo Yassenoff, who built the local Jewish community center in Columbus that bears his name."

The tapes clearly indicate that Dylan was not a follower. I think the "rich and influential" aspect of the Klebold family also has a LOT to do with how and why Dave Cullen is being rammed down everyone's throats. "Cullenbine" is becoming THE definitive text on NBK and it is clearly delusional and clearly attempts to absolve Dylan Klebold of any responsibility or guilt for what happened.

I think some folks in the Klebold lineage don't want their name besmirched and they are slowly, but very methodically, cleaning it up.

Also, I think I remember reading somewhere that the Klebolds did settle lawsuits with some of the victims and they somehow found a way to have their homeowners insurance pay for at least part of the settlement.

They had a lawyer in tow even before the police arrived at their house on 4-20-99.
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PostSubject: Re: basement tapes   Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:29 am

gustopoet wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
They would look like crazy teenagers even more if we could see them talk about their plan for the shooting. Just think of Eric's mad rant that has been recorded for a few seconds, off one of the basement tapes. Eric kissing his gun in a burst of enthusiasm. Can you take almost 4 hours of that craziness?


I think one of the strongest reasons the tapes are being held back is the Klebold family. People often forget that Sue Klebold comes from a very rich and powerful family: "Sue was from a prominent Jewish community there, granddaughter of the late philanthropist and construction magnate Leo Yassenoff, who built the local Jewish community center in Columbus that bears his name."

The tapes clearly indicate that Dylan was not a follower. I think the "rich and influential" aspect of the Klebold family also has a LOT to do with how and why Dave Cullen is being rammed down everyone's throats. "Cullenbine" is becoming THE definitive text on NBK and it is clearly delusional and clearly attempts to absolve Dylan Klebold of any responsibility or guilt for what happened.

I think some folks in the Klebold lineage don't want their name besmirched and they are slowly, but very methodically, cleaning it up.

Also, I think I remember reading somewhere that the Klebolds did settle lawsuits with some of the victims and they somehow found a way to have their homeowners insurance pay for at least part of the settlement.

They had a lawyer in tow even before the police arrived at their house on 4-20-99.

I don't know about that. Sue's father was the adopted son of Leo Yassenoff and he didn't had much contact with his father anymore towards the end of his life. Leo Yassenoff is dead a long time and I don't think Sue's family isn't that powerful anymore.

I'm sure that the reason that the Klebolds don't want us to see the Basement Tapes is clearly because they don't want the world to see Dylan's awfull behaviour. Sue tells it herself that she couldn't understand that this monster was her son.

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PostSubject: Re: basement tapes   Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:14 pm

Even a faded rich family still has connections. Plus the Klebolds were not exactly poor -- they owned the big house (compound) plus rental properties in Denver. I think social class and influence is a large factor in how the case and media coverage has played out, and specifically in relationship to the basement tapes.
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PostSubject: Re: basement tapes   Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:23 pm

The big house wasn't very expensive, because it was a dump before they bought it. They fixed it up themselves.

I think they had ir good, but aren't considered rich. Three was a discusion about it in a thread, but I can't remember where.

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PostSubject: Re: basement tapes   Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:30 pm

@tragedy79 wrote:
The big house wasn't very expensive, because it was a dump before they bought it. They fixed it up themselves.

I think they had ir good, but aren't considered rich. Three was a discusion about it in a thread, but I can't remember where.

The Denver/Littleton area is one of the richest areas in America. Do you know many people who would have lawyers on scene the moment their kid was implicated in something like this? Whether or not they renovated the house themselves, they are a wealthy family and they have indicated from the very beginning a desire to control the narrative by means of legal procedures and media. I stand by my initial statement that social class has had a big impact on the way the case has been presented to us, particularly in regard to Dylan and also in regard to the disposition of the basement tapes. I'd go so far to say that if the tapes did, in fact, show Dylan as a hapless follower, the Klebold family and lawyers would have seen to it that they were released and probably played on Oprah Winfrey for the whole world to see.
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PostSubject: Re: basement tapes   Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:16 am

I think gustopoet has a good point. Maybe they aren't "rich", but they certainly live better than I do! It's obvious that the Littleton area is fairly wealthy. I've actually always been surprised by the fact that both Eric and Dylan (and many of their friends) drove less-than-fancy cars and had jobs. Anyway, regardless of the question of wealth, it is my understanding that Sue Klebold's family was and continues to be quite influential, at least in the Jewish community. Whether that has anything to do with how Dylan is portrayed by Cullen and other media, or why the tapes haven't been released, is up for debate. That said, if it were MY child on those tapes and I was able to do anything to prevent the release of information that showed him as a contributor rather than just a follower....well, I'd certainly use any resources that were available.
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