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 Eric Harris Psychopath?

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PostSubject: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeThu Apr 24, 2014 9:31 am

Eric unlike a psychopath did care and was affected by other people.

Eric says in his diary "the fact that I have practically no selfesteem, especially concerning girls and looks and such. therefore people make fun of me... constantly..."

Everyone is always making fun of me because of how I look, how ******* weak I am and ****, well I will get you all back: ultimate ******* revenge here. you people could have shown more respect, treated me better, asked for my knowledge or guidence more, treated me more like senior, and maybe I wouldn't have been as ready to tear your ******* heads off. then again, I have always hated how I looked


I hate you people for leaving me out of so many fun things. And no don't ******* say, "well thats your fault" because it isnt, you people had my phone #, and I asked and all, but no. no no no dont let the weird looking Eric KID come along, ohh ******* nooo.
4/3/99


there was one scene in the Eric in Columbine video where he walks past a group of guys and quickly puts his down.

I personally think Eric had very low self esteem and was trying to build up self confidence by believeing he was superior and more intelligent.


"Superiority complex is a psychological defense mechanism in which a person's feelings of superiority counter or conceal his or her feelings of inferiority"



They both had no remorse during shooting and Dylan had "time of his life" while Eric was pretty stoic.



I believe that moving traumatized him and made him "paranoid" ...




So i dont think that Columbine happened because Eric was a PSYCHOPATH and Dylan was just some poor fallower , Cullen's book was terrible and even Randy Brown admited that bullying was the biggest factor.


They were two bottom kids of the entire school and they were bullied even by strangers .


Because they wanted to blow off school , it doesn't change motive !





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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeThu Apr 24, 2014 11:07 am

Quote :
Eric unlike a psychopath did care and was affected by other people.

Eric says in his diary "the fact that I have practically no selfesteem, especially concerning girls and looks and such. therefore people make fun of me... constantly..."

Everyone is always making fun of me because of how I look, how ******* weak I am and ****, well I will get you all back: ultimate ******* revenge here. you people could have shown more respect, treated me better, asked for my knowledge or guidence more, treated me more like senior, and maybe I wouldn't have been as ready to tear your ******* heads off. then again, I have always hated how I looked


I hate you people for leaving me out of so many fun things. And no don't ******* say, "well thats your fault" because it isnt, you people had my phone #, and I asked and all, but no. no no no dont let the weird looking Eric KID come along, ohh ******* nooo.
4/3/99


there was one scene in the Eric in Columbine video where he walks past a group of guys and quickly puts his down.

I personally think Eric had very low self esteem and was trying to build up self confidence by believeing he was superior and more intelligent.


"Superiority complex is a psychological defense mechanism in which a person's feelings of superiority counter or conceal his or her feelings of inferiority"



They both had no remorse during shooting and Dylan had "time of his life" while Eric was pretty stoic.

So far I know, nothing of what you describe here is inconsistent with psychopathy.
But there is some doubt of what psychopathy actually means. There are some people who see it as a specific condition of brain chemistry, which leads to lack of emotion such as fear or affection towards other people and a tendency towards risky behaviour. There is no way, why Eric could not have had this certain condition and acting like he did. (By the way, it does not seem to me, that he cared much about other people. He wanted them to see him as superior, that is not the same as caring for someone).

Other people see psychopathy more as a complex of personality traits, such as narcissism, lack of emotions for other people and craving for power (which can lead to sadism). If this is your understanding of psychopathy, then there is no doubt that Eric was one, because he obviously showed every single sign of it. The superiority complex which you describe, actually is a perfect description of narcissistic personality disorder, which would be one of the traits, typically associated with psychopathy.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeThu Apr 24, 2014 11:51 am

Don't forget that columbine was a suicide and you can understand it without understanding that it was a suicide.

His infamous journals suggest pretty unequivocally that the latter was the case. But again we must ask if a real narcissist would kill himself?


He needed demostrate power because he felt POWERLESS.



Eric even hated himself , so his diary is full of lies , he did not feel like a GOD , he just wanted be powerfull because he felt powerless and his rage + luvox made him homicidal
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeThu Apr 24, 2014 12:45 pm

columbine22 wrote:
Don't  forget that columbine was a suicide and you can understand it without understanding that it was a suicide.

His infamous journals suggest pretty unequivocally that the latter was the case. But again we must ask if a real narcissist would kill himself?


He needed demostrate power because he felt  POWERLESS.



Eric even hated   himself , so his  diary is full of lies , he did not feel like a GOD , he just wanted be powerfull because he felt powerless and his rage +    luvox made him  homicidal

That is exactly what narcissistic personality disorder is! Someone with NPD, in fact does feel insecure and weak and because of this, he creates and unrealistic and grandiose view of himself. The fact, that deep down, Eric hated himself, makes him a narcissist par excellence!
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeThu Apr 24, 2014 1:50 pm

That was the case with Eric. I believe he developed into a "narcistic" largely due to his experience at columbine but probably due to earlier childhood trauma as well. He came to columbine already shaky but the bullying teasing and exclusion propelled him into a frightening reality of no love no morality and no hope for the future. He was However extremely angry at this and that was really the one emotional constant.


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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeThu Apr 24, 2014 8:50 pm

columbine22 wrote:
Eric unlike a psychopath did care and was affected by other people.

Eric says in his diary "the fact that I have practically no selfesteem, especially concerning girls and looks and such. therefore people make fun of me... constantly..."

Everyone is always making fun of me because of how I look, how ******* weak I am and ****, well I will get you all back: ultimate ******* revenge here. you people could have shown more respect, treated me better, asked for my knowledge or guidence more, treated me more like senior, and maybe I wouldn't have been as ready to tear your ******* heads off. then again, I have always hated how I looked


I hate you people for leaving me out of so many fun things. And no don't ******* say, "well thats your fault" because it isnt, you people had my phone #, and I asked and all, but no. no no no dont let the weird looking Eric KID come along, ohh ******* nooo.
4/3/99


there was one scene in the Eric in Columbine video where he walks past a group of guys and quickly puts his down.

I personally think Eric had very low self esteem and was trying to build up self confidence by believeing he was superior and more intelligent.


"Superiority complex is a psychological defense mechanism in which a person's feelings of superiority counter or conceal his or her feelings of inferiority"



They both had no remorse during shooting  and Dylan had  "time of his life" while Eric was pretty stoic.



I believe that moving traumatized him  and made him "paranoid" ...




So i dont  think that Columbine happened because Eric was a PSYCHOPATH and Dylan was just some poor fallower , Cullen's book    was terrible and even Randy Brown admited that bullying was the biggest factor.


They were two bottom kids of the entire school and they were bullied  even by strangers .


Because they wanted to blow off school  , it doesn't change motive !






I agree with almost everything you said here.Well done.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeTue Apr 29, 2014 9:49 pm

Eric had lots of feelings--for himself.

Which makes him a psychopath.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeTue Apr 29, 2014 9:54 pm

How can anyone diagnosis anyone who is dead of being a "psychopath"?

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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeTue Apr 29, 2014 10:01 pm

How can you diagnose Eric or Dylan as anything? They were both children in highschool at the time of the attack. Eric would have been legally an adult, but only for some 11 days. Generally people who are diagnosed with psychopathy are serial killers, and are rarely school shooters. Both sets of people have entirely different mindsets and act differently. Eric's journal was for show. He was probably not really writing his real feelings, he was just writing down things that would make him notorious and to complain about the way he was "treated" (which, unlike the popular myths of Columbine, I believe Eric was treated decently at Columbine by most of the people. Only one group of "jocks" gave Eric a hard time, perhaps another group too because of the Isiah Shoels incident).
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeWed Apr 30, 2014 12:00 am

I think its ridiculous Eric is diagnosed as a psychopath.None of the people who declared him this either laymen or professional have ever met or treated him and he was barely 18.He was just a kid.The brain doesn't even stop developing until you are in your 20's.I think its very easy and convenient for people to slap that label on a teenage kid who has passed away and isn't around to be treated by anyone or talk to anyone or speak for himself after these tragic events occurred.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeWed Apr 30, 2014 4:20 am

You can not fully diagnose Eric with Psychopathy (which is not an official diagnosis anyway), but of course you can look at his behaviour prior to his death and drew clues about his personality. And in Eric's case, his personality definitive show a lot of traits (like narcissism, sadism, lack of guilt, anti-social traits etc.) who are associated with the concept of Psychopathy.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeWed Apr 30, 2014 8:21 pm

What about his incredibly young age? If he was a psychopath when he died when did he become one? Age 6? Age 12? Age 14? Even younger? What made him one?Nobody can know how much guilt he felt or did not feel.Nobody can know how he really felt and thought because nobody can read his mind despite Cullen practically claiming he could. I once read an article in which it was claimed that a 4 year old girl was a definite psychopath but I am highly skeptical about that.Isn't there some debate about whether this order actually exists?

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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeThu May 01, 2014 6:10 am

PaintItBlack wrote:
What about his incredibly young age? If he was a psychopath when he died when did he become one? Age 6? Age 12? Age 14? Even younger?  What made him one?Nobody can know how much guilt he felt or did not feel.Nobody can know how he really felt and thought because nobody can read his mind despite Cullen practically claiming he could. I once read an article in which it was claimed that a 4 year old girl was a definite psychopath but I am highly skeptical about that.Isn't there some  debate about whether this order actually exists?

You don't have to know when a person became psychopathic to know that the person shows psychopathic behaviour. You also don't have to know why and how a person became psychopathic- if the person shows psychopathic behaviour, the person is psychopathic.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeThu May 01, 2014 8:30 pm

I don't and can't agree that he was a psychopath .Beside my own personal feelings towards him,I do not think there is enough evidence or signs to label him as such especially as he was so young and I do not agree with putting any sort of a definite label on a deceased kid by people who never met or treated him.I wouldn't agree with that being done to anyone who has passed away.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeFri May 02, 2014 12:24 pm

Would you all also say then, that we can never know if Eric and Dylan were depressive? Depression is like any other disorder, for a full diagnosis, you have to speak with an alive patient and have an psychologist or psychiatrist to make the evaluation.

So if you say, that it is impossible to drew any clues about any disorders Eric and Dylan may have had, you are forced to deny, that Eric and Dylan had depression. Does that really make sense for you?

It always strucked me as odd, that so many people claim there is no way to know if Eric was psychopathic and Dylan schizotypal, but at the same time they think it is fully clear to claim that they were depressive. How do you want to know, if you don't think that post-mortem diagnosis is reliable?


Last edited by Hale-Bopp on Fri May 02, 2014 7:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeFri May 02, 2014 4:19 pm

Jenn wrote:
How can anyone diagnosis anyone who is dead of being a "psychopath"?

FBI profilers often diagnose people who are dead or not available for examination (such as wanted suspects). This is not the same process by which a psychiatrist diagnoses a patient, but it is embraced by the medical and law enforcement community. Fuselier presented his findings to a roomful of doctors at a conference and they validated him.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeFri May 02, 2014 4:20 pm

Ivan wrote:
How can you diagnose Eric or Dylan as anything? They were both children in highschool at the time of the attack. Eric would have been legally an adult, but only for some 11 days. Generally people who are diagnosed with psychopathy are serial killers, and are rarely school shooters. Both sets of people have entirely different mindsets and act differently. Eric's journal was for show. He was probably not really writing his real feelings, he was just writing down things that would make him notorious and to complain about the way he was "treated" (which, unlike the popular myths of Columbine, I believe Eric was treated decently at Columbine by most of the people. Only one group of "jocks" gave Eric a hard time, perhaps another group too because of the Isiah Shoels incident).

Only a very small percentage of psychopaths are serial killers or school shooters. In addition to being a psychopath, Eric also suffered from intense homicidal ideation.

What is the Shoels incident?
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeFri May 02, 2014 6:35 pm

The noob would like to know if all this information is available in the documents section.

I feel a little behind in terms of my level of knowledge about E and D.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeFri May 02, 2014 8:51 pm

lasttrain wrote:
Jenn wrote:
How can anyone diagnosis anyone who is dead of being a "psychopath"?

FBI profilers often diagnose people who are dead or not available for examination (such as wanted suspects).  This is not the same process by which a psychiatrist diagnoses a patient, but it is embraced by the medical and law enforcement community.  Fuselier presented his findings to a roomful of doctors at a conference and they validated him.  

Fuselier had a personal emotional involvement in this case due to his younger son being at the school the day of the shooting and him not knowing for several hours if he was ok.He should he excused himself due to bias, in my opinion. Not everyone in those fields agrees that it is ethical to diagnose a deceased person.There is some dissent about it.What I've said here is my belief based on my own studies too.I don't have a degree yet but I am not totally unknowledgeable in this field either.A good friend of mine is a psychiatric nurse and she also doesn't believe that Eric was a psychopath. There are people with schooling and training in this area that disagree.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeFri May 02, 2014 8:55 pm

Hale-Bopp wrote:
Would you all also say then, that we can never know if Eric and Dylan were depressive? Depression is like any other disorder, for a full diagnosis, you have to speak with an alive patient and have an psychologist or psychiatrist to make the evaluation.

So if you say, that it is impossible to drew any clues about any disorders Eric and Dylan may have had, you are forced to deny, that Eric and Dylan had depression. Does that really make sense for you?

It always strucked me as odd, that so many people claim there is no way to know if Eric was psychopathic and Dylan schizotypal, but at the same time they think it is fully clear to claim that they were depressive. How do you want to know, if you don't think that post-mortem diagnosis is reliable?



Dylan diagnosed himself with depression.He came out and wrote of his depression. He recognized this in himself,he even tried to self medicate with Saint John's Wart.I think it's hard to argue that at least Dylan wasn't depressed.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeSat May 03, 2014 12:07 am

I am sure that Eric Harris was also pretty depressed , Columbine was a planned suicide ..


He even stated that he had suicidal and homicidal thoughts , so he was not lying to his psychologist about this .

and he had empathy for his DOG , what if he hated people because he felt rejected by others?

+ For what he needed duo friend? (Dylan)

"Brooks i like you now , go home" - CAN psychopaths even "like"?

"That’s where a lot of my hate grows
from. The fact that I have practically no self-esteem, especially concerning girls and looks
and such."



HIS PROBLEM WAS SELF-ESTEEM and i know it because i was SAME - I was lying to others that i feel like a GoD ..
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeSat May 03, 2014 6:04 am

PaintItBlack wrote:
Hale-Bopp wrote:
Would you all also say then, that we can never know if Eric and Dylan were depressive? Depression is like any other disorder, for a full diagnosis, you have to speak with an alive patient and have an psychologist or psychiatrist to make the evaluation.

So if you say, that it is impossible to drew any clues about any disorders Eric and Dylan may have had, you are forced to deny, that Eric and Dylan had depression. Does that really make sense for you?

It always strucked me as odd, that so many people claim there is no way to know if Eric was psychopathic and Dylan schizotypal, but at the same time they think it is fully clear to claim that they were depressive. How do you want to know, if you don't think that post-mortem diagnosis is reliable?



Dylan diagnosed himself with depression.He came out and wrote of his depression. He recognized this in himself,he even tried  to self medicate with Saint John's Wart.I think it's hard to argue that at least Dylan wasn't depressed.

I don't think self-diagnosis is seen as reliable by psychologist.


Quote :
I am sure that Eric Harris was also pretty depressed , Columbine was a planned suicide ..


He even stated that he had suicidal and homicidal thoughts , so he was not lying to his psychologist about this .

and he had empathy for his DOG , what if he hated people because he felt rejected by others?

+ For what he needed duo friend? (Dylan)

"Brooks i like you now , go home" - CAN psychopaths even "like"?

"That’s where a lot of my hate grows
from. The fact that I have practically no self-esteem, especially concerning girls and looks
and such."



HIS PROBLEM WAS SELF-ESTEEM and i know it because i was SAME - I was lying to others that i feel like a GoD ..

And interestingly, Eric shows nearly zero traits who are commonly associated with depression. He was highly motivated in school and at work, he had very disciplined grooming, He does not express much self-loathing in his personal writings etc.
You don't have to suffer from Depression to commit suicide or have thoughts of self-hatred. These symptoms can be part of a lot of different disorders. People with Narcissistic Personality Disorder also hate themselves, for example. But they deal with it in a very different way, than people with depression.

And I think the "Brooks I like you now"-commentary had more to do with his planning, that with any affection towards brooks.


Reminder: I'm not saying, that Eric was not depressed. And I'm definitive not saying that Dylan was not depressed. I'm just trying to show you, why I think it is incoherent, to say that Eric and Dylan were depressed and than also say, that there is no way we can know anything about their disorders.
It is true, that not every single point of the psychopathic-diagnosis fits Eric. The same is even more true, however, for the diagnosis of depression, where nearly nothing fits in case of Eric. If he had depression, that it surely was an atypical form.
You have to decide. Either it is possible to look at a dead persons behaviour and draw clues about this persons personality, or it isn't. You can't have both.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeSat May 03, 2014 9:48 am

He stated "I wish I was a sociopath like my dad so I wouldn't feel guilt."

I do not know if he was lying or not about his empathy


They both had no empathy , they did not care even about their friends...

Well if you read his diary atleast 3 times , you can see that Harris was unbalanced person .



“I want to kill everyone except about 5 people.”

“If I could nuke the world I would, because so far I hate you all. There are probably around 10 people I
wouldn’t want to die.

" there are probably about 100 people max in the school alone who I dont want to die, the rest, MUST FUCKING DIE"



That's why i dont believe in everything what he says in his diary , remember he wanted to be famous
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeSat May 03, 2014 8:41 pm

I replied earlier to this topic but my post seems to have disappeared.
I posted in response to the "sociopath like my dad quote." I'm not sure where the quote came form as i haven't seen it referenced, but i did read on this forum that it supposedly was mentioned in the documentary "killing spree" which recently aired in the UK. I'm yet to watch this documentary so i cannot confirm or deny this.

Quote :
Eric: "My parents are the best fucking parents I have ever known. My dad is great. I wish I was a fucking sociopath so I didn't have any remorse, but I do. This is going to tear them apart. They will never forget it." He then addresses his parents directly, if briefly: "There is nothing you guys could have done to prevent any of this. There is nothing that anyone could have done to prevent this. No one is to blame except me and Vodka. Our actions are a two man war against everyone else."

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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeSat May 03, 2014 8:44 pm

Hale-Bopp wrote:
PaintItBlack wrote:
Hale-Bopp wrote:
Would you all also say then, that we can never know if Eric and Dylan were depressive? Depression is like any other disorder, for a full diagnosis, you have to speak with an alive patient and have an psychologist or psychiatrist to make the evaluation.

So if you say, that it is impossible to drew any clues about any disorders Eric and Dylan may have had, you are forced to deny, that Eric and Dylan had depression. Does that really make sense for you?

It always strucked me as odd, that so many people claim there is no way to know if Eric was psychopathic and Dylan schizotypal, but at the same time they think it is fully clear to claim that they were depressive. How do you want to know, if you don't think that post-mortem diagnosis is reliable?



Dylan diagnosed himself with depression.He came out and wrote of his depression. He recognized this in himself,he even tried  to self medicate with Saint John's Wart.I think it's hard to argue that at least Dylan wasn't depressed.

I don't think self-diagnosis is seen as reliable by psychologist.


Quote :
I am sure that Eric Harris was also pretty depressed , Columbine was a planned suicide ..


He even stated that he had suicidal and homicidal thoughts , so he was not lying to his psychologist about this .

and he had empathy for his DOG , what if he hated people because he felt rejected by others?

+ For what he needed duo friend? (Dylan)

"Brooks i like you now , go home" - CAN psychopaths even "like"?

"That’s where a lot of my hate grows
from. The fact that I have practically no self-esteem, especially concerning girls and looks
and such."



HIS PROBLEM WAS SELF-ESTEEM and i know it because i was SAME - I was lying to others that i feel like a GoD ..

And interestingly, Eric shows nearly zero traits who are commonly associated with depression. He was highly motivated in school and at work, he had very disciplined grooming, He does not express much self-loathing in his personal writings etc.
You don't have to suffer from Depression to commit suicide or have thoughts of self-hatred. These symptoms can be part of a lot of different disorders. People with Narcissistic Personality Disorder also hate themselves, for example. But they deal with it in a very different way, than people with depression.

And I think the "Brooks I like you now"-commentary had more to do with his planning, that with any affection towards brooks.


Reminder: I'm not saying, that Eric was not depressed. And I'm definitive not saying that Dylan was not depressed. I'm just trying to show you, why I think it is incoherent, to say that Eric and Dylan were depressed and than also say, that there is no way we can know anything about their disorders.
It is true, that not every single point of the psychopathic-diagnosis fits Eric. The same is even more true, however, for the diagnosis of depression, where nearly nothing fits in case of Eric. If he had depression, that it surely was an atypical form.
You have to decide. Either it is possible to look at a dead persons behaviour and draw clues about this persons personality, or it isn't. You can't have both.


Well, then perhaps to be fair by the standards you are presenting here, perhaps we should conclude that we can't really know anything about their problems,feelings or anything that can't be commonly known and be forced to leave it at that.Maybe there is some truth in that.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeSun May 04, 2014 6:57 am

PaintItBlack wrote:
Hale-Bopp wrote:
PaintItBlack wrote:
Hale-Bopp wrote:
Would you all also say then, that we can never know if Eric and Dylan were depressive? Depression is like any other disorder, for a full diagnosis, you have to speak with an alive patient and have an psychologist or psychiatrist to make the evaluation.

So if you say, that it is impossible to drew any clues about any disorders Eric and Dylan may have had, you are forced to deny, that Eric and Dylan had depression. Does that really make sense for you?

It always strucked me as odd, that so many people claim there is no way to know if Eric was psychopathic and Dylan schizotypal, but at the same time they think it is fully clear to claim that they were depressive. How do you want to know, if you don't think that post-mortem diagnosis is reliable?



Dylan diagnosed himself with depression.He came out and wrote of his depression. He recognized this in himself,he even tried  to self medicate with Saint John's Wart.I think it's hard to argue that at least Dylan wasn't depressed.

I don't think self-diagnosis is seen as reliable by psychologist.


Quote :
I am sure that Eric Harris was also pretty depressed , Columbine was a planned suicide ..


He even stated that he had suicidal and homicidal thoughts , so he was not lying to his psychologist about this .

and he had empathy for his DOG , what if he hated people because he felt rejected by others?

+ For what he needed duo friend? (Dylan)

"Brooks i like you now , go home" - CAN psychopaths even "like"?

"That’s where a lot of my hate grows
from. The fact that I have practically no self-esteem, especially concerning girls and looks
and such."



HIS PROBLEM WAS SELF-ESTEEM and i know it because i was SAME - I was lying to others that i feel like a GoD ..

And interestingly, Eric shows nearly zero traits who are commonly associated with depression. He was highly motivated in school and at work, he had very disciplined grooming, He does not express much self-loathing in his personal writings etc.
You don't have to suffer from Depression to commit suicide or have thoughts of self-hatred. These symptoms can be part of a lot of different disorders. People with Narcissistic Personality Disorder also hate themselves, for example. But they deal with it in a very different way, than people with depression.

And I think the "Brooks I like you now"-commentary had more to do with his planning, that with any affection towards brooks.


Reminder: I'm not saying, that Eric was not depressed. And I'm definitive not saying that Dylan was not depressed. I'm just trying to show you, why I think it is incoherent, to say that Eric and Dylan were depressed and than also say, that there is no way we can know anything about their disorders.
It is true, that not every single point of the psychopathic-diagnosis fits Eric. The same is even more true, however, for the diagnosis of depression, where nearly nothing fits in case of Eric. If he had depression, that it surely was an atypical form.
You have to decide. Either it is possible to look at a dead persons behaviour and draw clues about this persons personality, or it isn't. You can't have both.


Well, then perhaps to be fair by the standards you are presenting here, perhaps we should conclude that we can't really know anything about their problems,feelings or anything that can't be commonly known and be forced to leave it at that.Maybe there is some truth in that.

But that is not what I think.
I think it is possible to drew clues about someones personality even after he is dead. And that really is not such a taboo as some people seem to think. I never read any book about School/Mass Shootings, were the author (Psychologists or Psychiatrists) did not try to analyze the perpetrators behaviour and then making a psychological evaluation of him. Why should there any problem with that? Of course the diagnosis is tendentious, but that is no different when you evaluate a living person. And in a lot of cases, the perpetrators send very clear signals. I don't think there can be any doubt about that Dylan had Depression and Eric a Narcissistic Personality Disorder. These Disorders are jumping right into your face.
I also don't think that there can be any doubt, that Dylan had mild psychotic symptoms, even when someone does not agree with the schizotypal diagnosis.
The diagnosis of psychopathy might be more questionable, because the term seems so dubious.
But if you just look at signs of Personality Disorder in Eric, then it is clear that:

- He obviously had a Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I mean, this screams just right over the whole place, there can't be any denial about that at all.
- He clearly showed severe sadistic traits.
- He cleary had anti-social Personality traits. Not in the sense of shyness (although he showed signs of shyness, too) but in the sense of strong disgust for social rules and laws. He expressed than ideologically in his diary and he showed it in real life through repeated criminal behaviour! That is why his journal can't be only for "show" at this point! If it would have been all show, he would have just written these things, without acting out these things. But in fact, he started to commit criminal acts on a regular basis, before he started to justify and brag about it in his journal!

So where is the problem to just sum up all these traits in saying that Eric had psychopathic tendencies?

And I don't know why a psychopath shouldn't be able to love his dog. Nobody in this world is 100 percent psychopathic. Every psychopath has sides, who are non-psychopathic. Did you know, that after he was captured by police, Ted Bundy did burst out in tears and said that he was sorry? It is surprising, but it does not make him non-psychopathic at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeSun May 04, 2014 10:29 pm

I don't see any point in discussing this any further,except to say that I don't necessarily agree with most of your statements.There is a huge gulf between those that believe he was a psychopath and those who believe he was not and I don't ever see that gulf being bridged very much.Have a nice night.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeMon May 05, 2014 4:53 am

Ted Bundy was crying only for himself , because he knew that he is going to die ... Eric on the other hand wanted to die .


" He obviously had a Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I mean, this screams just right over the whole place, there can't be any denial about that at all."


How you can explain changes in Eric Harris ? What if school , bullying and his low self-esteem made him what he was?


I still believe that Harris was created by society


I know o lot about homicidal anger , I had also sadistic thoughs - I wanted to kill someone with knife , broke ribs - Yes i was distrubed.

I thought that i was better than everyone else and everyone was just stupid - My problem was low self-esteem.


And still i am not a psychopath , i do care about some peopel and animals , but i care about people who i like and i would die for them.



So i dont think that Harris was a psychopath because i am same in some ways...

I had also "fantasy" about destroying world , because i FELT rejected by others.



So FBI "agents" with Cullen can sck balls and go watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGj0CR0w2I4
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeMon May 05, 2014 9:57 am

columbine22 wrote:
Ted Bundy was crying only for himself , because he knew that he is going to die ... Eric on the other hand wanted to die .


" He obviously had a Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I mean, this screams just right over the whole place, there can't be any denial about that at all."


How you can explain changes in Eric Harris ? What if school , bullying and his low self-esteem made him what he was?


I still believe that Harris was  created by society


I know o lot about homicidal anger , I had also sadistic thoughs - I wanted to kill someone with knife , broke ribs - Yes i was distrubed.

I thought that i was better than everyone else and everyone was just stupid - My problem was  low self-esteem.


And still i am not a psychopath , i do care about some peopel and animals , but i care about people who i like  and i would die for them.



So i dont think that Harris was a psychopath because i am same  in some ways...

I  had also  "fantasy" about destroying world , because i FELT rejected by others.



So FBI "agents" with Cullen can  sck balls and go watch this  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGj0CR0w2I4

But it's not good enough to only care about people who you like. In my book, you have to also care about the lives of people you've never met or know nothing about. Eric wanted to kill and did kill people who did nothing to harm him.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeMon May 05, 2014 10:54 am

You don't know that though.

According to Brooks Eric and Dylan were the losers of the losers. The harm was not physical but psychological. I've been in that position. What I can tell you is that you get to a point where you dislike the entire population of the school... even those who may not have said or done anything. AND THIS comes from years of being victimized by peers.

I don't think Eric was a psychopath. Was he full of hatred. Yes. Was he justified in his mind of having this anger... in many ways yes.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeMon May 05, 2014 11:23 am

midema wrote:
You don't know that though.

I don't know what?  That Eric wanted to kill people who did nothing to him?  He did so on 4/20 and wanted to kill many more.

Quote :
According to Brooks Eric and Dylan were the losers of the losers. The harm was not physical but psychological. I've been in that position. What I can tell you is that you get to a point where you dislike the entire population of the school... even those who may not have said or done anything. AND THIS comes from years of being victimized by peers.

If that's the case then Eric Harris was a huge beacon of irrationally.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeMon May 05, 2014 12:36 pm

"Eric wanted to kill and did kill people who did nothing to harm him "

Well Dylan wanted it also , it was Dylan who had time of his life , Dylan wrote about revenge against "society , cops"


Blaming this massacre on mental state of shooters is so easy ....


We have to ask "What made their mental state worse " , "Why school" , "Why they wanted kill themselves"
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeMon May 05, 2014 2:47 pm

columbine22 wrote:
"Eric wanted to kill and did kill people who did nothing to harm him "

Well Dylan wanted it also , it was Dylan  who had time of his life  , Dylan wrote  about revenge against "society , cops"

I know, but this topic is about Eric.


Quote :
Blaming this massacre on mental state of shooters is so easy ....


We have to ask "What made their mental state worse "  , "Why  school" , "Why they wanted kill themselves"

I'm not sure what this has to do with my post.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeMon May 05, 2014 3:09 pm

I wanted to reserve my opinion here because when I disscuss this, I have to talk about my own personal problem and its not very nice most of the time, but now after read all the opinions of this thread, I cant help it. I have the same problems that Eric, Dylan and many others here (from what I read). I've been having social problems since my childhood and when I was 16 I started to be very antisocial, I hated everyone in the school with a few exceptions, and with exceptions I am talking about two or three people. Today I still have the same problem, I can even write or think things that for many, can be very creepy, I am very antisocial and I've had murder and suicide desires but I havent done any of those things. Many people have the same problem and thoughts or desires and havent done the same that Eric and Dylan. Why then Eric and Dylan did it?, why people with the same problem, kill people and others like me that live the same dont?. Well, I am sure that a mental illness play a big part on it. I bet that something more is going on in their minds to make a rampage and I dont doubt that they would have a personality disorder like Psychopathy. Of course that all of us are a product of the society and a social problem had to start everything and make a big part on it too but others develop something else and become truly dangerous people that can make come true their desires. They have some sort of phychological problem that separate the ones with the same problems and the ones with the same problems that are able to really harm people because by now, I havent kill everyone and I am not in the mood for that. I know the consequences and many like me too, but people with mental illness dont care about the consequences or just dont think about it.

In conclusion. I agree when someone say that Eric and Dylan had a personality disorder or mental illness but I am also agree when others say that they were just a product of their enviroment and society, because in the end, everyone is right. They were a product of the society and enviroment, but they developed something else that made come true NBK and it wasnt their desires and words in a piece of paper.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeMon May 05, 2014 10:02 pm

midema wrote:
You don't know that though.

According to Brooks Eric and Dylan were the losers of the losers. The harm was not physical but psychological. I've been in that position. What I can tell you is that you get to a point where you dislike the entire population of the school... even those who may not have said or done anything. AND THIS comes from years of being victimized by peers.

I don't think Eric was a psychopath. Was he full of hatred. Yes. Was he justified in his mind of having this anger... in many ways yes.



Its very easy to not only dislike the entire population of the school but to hate them with a powerful rage, especially if most of them are cruel to you or egg it on or ostracize you .I know.I have been there.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeMon May 05, 2014 10:09 pm

PaintItBlack wrote:



Its very easy to not only dislike the entire population of the school but to hate them with a powerful rage, especially if most of them are cruel to you or egg it on or ostracize you .I know.I have been there.

No, it's very hard to dislike an entire popular of a 2,000+ student because you literally do not know the majority of them.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeMon May 05, 2014 10:24 pm

sergeant hartman wrote:
PaintItBlack wrote:



Its very easy to not only dislike the entire population of the school but to hate them with a powerful rage, especially if most of them are cruel to you or egg it on or ostracize you .I know.I have been there.

No, it's very hard to dislike an entire popular of a 2,000+ student because you literally do not know the majority of them.

Sorry, but you are wrong, is not hard to hate the entire population of the school and is not even hard to hate everyone in the world. But only people that have been living that situation understand. Thats one of the reasons why these people hide their emotions and dont say anything about it or just to a few, because not everyone will feel the same and will understand.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeMon May 05, 2014 10:30 pm

Mj2beat wrote:
sergeant hartman wrote:
PaintItBlack wrote:



Its very easy to not only dislike the entire population of the school but to hate them with a powerful rage, especially if most of them are cruel to you or egg it on or ostracize you .I know.I have been there.

No, it's very hard to dislike an entire popular of a 2,000+ student because you literally do not know the majority of them.

Sorry, but you are wrong, is not hard to hate the entire population of the school and is not even hard to hate everyone in the world. But only people that have been living that situation understand. Thats one of the reasons why these people hide their emotions and dont say anything about it or just to a few, because not everyone will feel the same and will understand.

I agree with you completely.You are speaking truth here.It's wonderful that a few people here have lived this too and really do understand.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeMon May 05, 2014 10:33 pm

Hating an entire population of a school or everyone in the world is irrational. It actively doesn't make sense.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeMon May 05, 2014 10:36 pm

It might not make any sense on a rational level, but if you've been treated cruelly long enough by enough people, it can easily happen believe me.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeMon May 05, 2014 10:39 pm

sergeant hartman wrote:
Hating an entire population of a school or everyone in the world is irrational.  It actively doesn't make sense.

Well, trust me, it happens, and it doesnt make sense for most of the people, but it makes sense for us. When a group of people harass you or reject you, you start to feel hate for everyone in general, for the society and its problems, you start to not be agree with everything and then you see everyone against you and you against everyone. You come to a moment where your sympathy is for a few people and sometimes for no one.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeMon May 05, 2014 10:46 pm

I understand overall what many of you are saying, however, I am "one of those people" who was (and in some cases, still is) mercilessly harassed, slandered, and ostracized.

I do not hate the world.

I have little tolerance for most stupidity and narrow mindedness, and prefer solitude and to keep my "circle" quite minimal.

I have issues trusting people, and I have no problem telling people to fuck off, in plain, blatant terms. Knowing that in most cases, it is going to bring me even more grief due to the massive inflated egos that most of these sorts of neanderthals possess.

I am a grown adult at this time, and I still deal with this behavior from narrow minded drones. I was relentlessly bullied, harassed and slandered starting most notably in junior high school, and high school was infinitely worse.

But again, I do not hate the world. I do not hate everyone.

I just have less tolerance for their bullshit, but I will react with words as weapons, which, while they will often retaliate even further due to being put in their place and humiliated, makes me the "winner" in the end in these particular contexts.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeMon May 05, 2014 10:57 pm

tfsa47090 wrote:
I understand overall what many of you are saying, however, I am "one of those people" who was (and in some cases, still is) mercilessly harassed, slandered, and ostracized.

I do not hate the world.

I have little tolerance for most stupidity and narrow mindedness, and prefer solitude and to keep my "circle" quite minimal.

I have issues trusting people, and I have no problem telling people to fuck off, in plain, blatant terms. Knowing that in most cases, it is going to bring me even more grief due to the massive inflated egos that most of these sorts of neanderthals possess.

I am a grown adult at this time, and I still deal with this behavior from narrow minded drones. I was relentlessly bullied, harassed and slandered starting most notably in junior high school, and high school was infinitely worse.

But again, I do not hate the world. I do not hate everyone.

I just have less tolerance for their bullshit, but I will react with words as weapons, which, while they will often retaliate even further due to being put in their place and humiliated, makes me the "winner" in the end in these particular contexts.

But you are a grown adult now and things change when you mature more. I know I will do that when I will be older, I will probably not hate everyone and still today I sometimes do the same that you but later I go away and prefer to not socialize anymore. This is a process and when you are still very young and with high school finished last year or two years ago, that rage, hate and memories of bad experiences are still there very fresh but it will definitely go away little by little to a point of better ignore everyone like I do now too but with more tolerance like you do now.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeMon May 05, 2014 10:59 pm

Different people react in different ways. We are all largely shaped by our experiences .If you had lived the life I had or MJ had or anyone who feels or has felt and thought that way in the past, you might feel that way too or have felt that way in the past.

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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeMon May 05, 2014 11:02 pm

I had to deal with this all the time, on a daily basis as a young kid and a teenager.

I dealt with it in the same way I do now.

The only thing that is different now is that I tell people to fuck off a lot more quickly, because I no longer have to fear getting my ass kicked at home for getting in trouble at school.

I live on my own with a caring partner.

I still have to deal with it now.

I am literally bullied daily at my place of employment to a degree that is so damn insane I literally do not have the energy to showcase in this post.

I lived a rather screwed up life myself. Beatings, mental and emotional abuse that I also do not have the energy to get into detail about at this time.

I was, again, harassed, bullied, slandered and had grades sabotaged, I had TEACHERS bullying me.

Yes, it is true that certain people deal with things differently.

My life has not been easy, either.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeTue May 06, 2014 7:06 am

columbine22 wrote:
Ted Bundy was crying only for himself , because he knew that he is going to die ... Eric on the other hand wanted to die .


" He obviously had a Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I mean, this screams just right over the whole place, there can't be any denial about that at all."


How you can explain changes in Eric Harris ? What if school , bullying and his low self-esteem made him what he was?


I mentioned this several times before, but I will mention it again: If Eric got narcissistic, because of school, bullying and low self-esteem, than it does NOT change the fact, that he was a narcissist. In fact, narcissist always have low self-esteems! Narcissistic Personality Disorder is nothing than hiding a fragile and vulnerable ego by creating grandiose and unrealistic view of the self.
When someone gets bullied and then start to see himself as superior and godlike, because it helps him dealing with the fact, that the bullying makes him feel weak and worthless than this person is narcissistic! And if the person takes it to such an extreme level, as Eric did, that this person very likely has Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

It is funny, you wrote this, because you wanted to show me, why you don't think that Eric had Narcissistic Personality Disorder. But when I look at what you wrote, it seems to me, that you do agree with me, you just don't know it. Not because you see Eric that different than me, but because you seem to have a different understanding of what Narcissistic Personality Disorder is.
Maybe it would make more sense to ask you: what is a narcissist for you? And how Eric does not fit it?

People always seem to think, that labeling Eric and Dylan with any disorder minimize the complexity of the case. I don't think that that is true at all.
Psychopathy does not explain why Eric did commit murder. It is simply a description of how his development went down. It still does not explain his motives for the attack.
It also does not minimize the outside social circumstances, in which the idea for NBK was made (although I think that the bullying-factor might be overrated. Eric was NOT a totally normal child, before the bullying did start. The small things we know from him early childhood shows that he was an unusual vulnerable and anxious child. Just remember the baseball-stories from Plattsburgh).
When I call Eric a narcissist, Im simply acknowledging the categorization of his behaviour and self-view. Not more and not less. This does not minimize questions like "Why school?", "What impact bullying had om them?" etc.

Well, this will be my last post in this topic.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeTue May 06, 2014 11:27 am

Hale-Bopp wrote:
The small things we know from him early childhood shows that he was an unusual vulnerable and anxious child. Just remember the baseball-stories from Plattsburgh


Don't leave yet! Can you elaborate on this statement you made? It's the first time I'm hearing about this. P-please Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeTue May 06, 2014 1:26 pm

Magnaphoria wrote:
Hale-Bopp wrote:
The small things we know from him early childhood shows that he was an unusual vulnerable and anxious child. Just remember the baseball-stories from Plattsburgh


Don't leave yet! Can you elaborate on this statement you made? It's the first time I'm hearing about this. P-please Sad

When Eric lived as a child in Plattsburgh, he played Baseball there. His former team members later remembered, that he refused to try to hit the ball with his baseball bat, because he was afraid that he could disappoint his team members. For me that sounds like a very vulnerable and anxious child. And given the fact, that there are no reports of bullying from his time at Plattsburgh, his huge social anxiety did not seem to have been the product of rejection from peers, but came from inside.
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tfsa47090
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeTue May 06, 2014 3:45 pm

Hale-Bopp wrote:
Magnaphoria wrote:
Hale-Bopp wrote:
The small things we know from him early childhood shows that he was an unusual vulnerable and anxious child. Just remember the baseball-stories from Plattsburgh


Don't leave yet! Can you elaborate on this statement you made? It's the first time I'm hearing about this. P-please Sad

When Eric lived as a child in Plattsburgh, he played Baseball there. His former team members later remembered, that he refused to try to hit the ball with his baseball bat, because he was afraid that he could disappoint his team members. For me that sounds like a very vulnerable and anxious child. And given the fact, that there are no reports of bullying from his time at Plattsburgh, his huge social anxiety did not seem to have been the product of rejection from peers, but came from inside.

Absolutely exquisite point, Hale-Bopp.
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PostSubject: Re: Eric Harris Psychopath?   Eric Harris  Psychopath? Icon_minitimeTue May 06, 2014 9:45 pm

tfsa47090 wrote:
I had to deal with this all the time, on a daily basis as a young kid and a teenager.

I dealt with it in the same way I do now.

The only thing that is different now is that I tell people to fuck off a lot more quickly, because I no longer have to fear getting my ass kicked at home for getting in trouble at school.

I live on my own with a caring partner.

I still have to deal with it now.

I am literally bullied daily at my place of employment to a degree that is so damn insane I literally do not have the energy to showcase in this post.

I lived a rather screwed up life myself. Beatings, mental and emotional abuse that I also do not have the energy to get into detail about at this time.

I was, again, harassed, bullied, slandered and had grades sabotaged, I had TEACHERS bullying me.

Yes, it is true that certain people deal with things differently.

My life has not been easy, either.


I wasn't trying to imply that you have had an easy life or minimize the pain and impact of your experiences.I was only saying that many people who are treated this way over a long period of time do develop the same sort of anger and rage and hate that E &D had.And I don't think it is because the fault lies totally with us.I think only a small part does and its a developed and understandable reaction to years of cruelty and abuse.Some like yourself managed to keep a more positive attitude in spite of it all,which is great, but some have an opposite reaction.
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