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 Dylan's triple cross

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JayJay




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PostSubject: Dylan's triple cross   Dylan's triple cross Icon_minitimeMon Apr 28, 2014 3:27 pm

Was scouring for books when I came across this: [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

It's called the Temple of Psychick Youth Cross (or T.O.P.Y cross) and has various meanings. The only difference with Dylan's cross is that the middle horizontal line is consistently drawn longer than the others in Dylan's journal.

I don't know if Dylan came across that material and if not, where he took the symbol from. If you read on it, from the T.O.P.Y's analysis, the cross can represent a stylized tree of life from occult symbolism. To simplify things to an extreme degree, the middle line represent the passage from a state of physicality to a state of spirituality. The middle of that point where the vertical and middle horizontal line crosses figures Tiphareth, the center sephira on the tree of life, representing the self, the center of consciousness.

This is interesting because Dylan wrote somewhere in his journal besides that point ''Cut here'': [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


Did he mean "cut me at the point of my self''? Could have meant ''Cut me in this present state so I can free myself to move on to a higher spiritual state''? There is certainly, as explained by T.O.P.Y's writings, the idea of needing to disembody in order to move along, which is basically what Dylan expounds on in his diary.

I wish I knew if Dylan came across these explanations and that's why he used the cross.

Here's a description of the cross from the T.O.P.Y's webpage: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's triple cross   Dylan's triple cross Icon_minitimeTue Apr 29, 2014 4:35 am

I heard of the Temple before, because one of my friends was a huge fan of Psychic TV (I just read at Wikipedia, that Current 93 are also a part of that organisation! I really like Current 93!).
But I don't know much about their ideology, could you explain their basics to some extent?

I think it is possible, that Dylan knew about the temple. I know, that he listened to Laibach, who have a similar sub-cultural background. I also heard once, that Eric and Dylan listened to Boyd Rice, but I never came across any proof for this. The thematic of Boyd Rice music would have appealed to them, I'm sure!
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JayJay




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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's triple cross   Dylan's triple cross Icon_minitimeTue Apr 29, 2014 7:41 am

Your friend probably knows more about it than I do since he knows Psychick TV. The only thing I know is what has to do with occult symbolism. I just stumbled upon T.O.P.Y but from reading their website, it looks a lot like an offshoot of discordianism or a chaos magick organization/movement. (I'm a discordian Pope, by the way   Laughing  ). It looks like a loose mix of various occult paths using ceremonial and chaos magick (which happens to have another symbol used by Dylan, the 8-pointed star).

I like Current 93 too, without being a big fan. There is some good dark ambient music in there that would have appealed to Dylan. So, basically, you're saying that Laibach (and maybe Boyd Rice) is probably the only link Dylan may have had to T.O.P.Y among all the bands listed as collaborators or allies. When I looked through the Wikipedia list, I could not make any connection and I'm sure you know more about these bands than I do.

Holy s..., just listened to a Boyd Rice's piece and it sounds just like Eric, almost verbatim. It's creeping me out how much like Eric this is. Granted his is a universal misanthropic sentiment but, still some of the ideas are exactly what he expounded. Hearing this, I cannot imagine he had not gotten around to it. You gotta hear it to believe it: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

_________________
"Is evil something you are? Or is it something you do? My pain is constant and sharp and I do not hope for a better world for anyone. In fact, I want my pain to be inflicted on others. I want no one to escape."
- American Psycho - Bret Easton Ellis (1991)
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's triple cross   Dylan's triple cross Icon_minitimeTue Apr 29, 2014 9:56 am

JayJay wrote:
Your friend probably knows more about it than I do since he knows Psychick TV. The only thing I know is what has to do with occult symbolism. I just stumbled upon T.O.P.Y but from reading their website, it looks a lot like an offshoot of discordianism or a chaos magick organization/movement. (I'm a discordian Pope, by the way   Laughing  ). It looks like a loose mix of various occult paths using ceremonial and chaos magick (which happens to have another symbol used by Dylan, the 8-pointed star).

I like Current 93 too, without being a big fan. There is some good dark ambient music in there that would have appealed to Dylan. So, basically, you're saying that Laibach (and maybe Boyd Rice) is probably the only link Dylan may have had to T.O.P.Y among all the bands listed as collaborators or allies. When I looked through the Wikipedia list, I could not make any connection and I'm sure you know more about these bands than I do.

Holy s..., just listened to a Boyd Rice's piece and it sounds just like Eric, almost verbatim. It's creeping me out how much like Eric this is. Granted his is a universal misanthropic sentiment but, still some of the ideas are exactly what he expounded. Hearing this, I cannot imagine he had not gotten around to it. You gotta hear it to believe it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z50p2v5Of0

I know this song and I once posted it in the "Songs that remind me of Columbine"- Thread. Yes, it sounds like it could be an excerpt from Eric's diary.

Laibach and Boyd Rice are not linked to T.O.P.Y. so far I know, but they also make classical Industrial and Noise music, just like Psychic TV and it seems like a lot of people who listen to Psychic TV also like Laibach and Boyd Rice, so I thought if Dylan listened to them, he may have also stumbled across Psychic TV and the T.O.P.Y.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's triple cross   Dylan's triple cross Icon_minitimeWed Apr 30, 2014 4:58 am

Dylans' illustrations certainly are ponderous with the triple cross being a consistent theme.  What it must of meant to him though will always be a mystery.  He was a much deeper thinker than he appeared to be.  Different levels of existences that's pretty far out for a 17 year old.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's triple cross   Dylan's triple cross Icon_minitimeWed May 07, 2014 12:48 pm

Thinking about the Triple Cross again, it seems for me that Dylan appears to have put a very unique and personal meaning in every of his symbols. I wouldn't necessarily think, that whatever this cross represented for him, must have been taken from any source.
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JayJay




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PostSubject: Re: Dylan's triple cross   Dylan's triple cross Icon_minitimeThu May 08, 2014 5:00 pm

There's no information at all on what these symbols meant to Dylan, apart from the little he says in his journal. All the symbols he used are not new or invented but have a religious or spiritual history. So, I believe he must have seen them somewhere but he could have attached a personal meaning to it. I'd like to know what the triple cross meant to him exactly, the 5 and other symbols, about ten of them all in all.

_________________
"Is evil something you are? Or is it something you do? My pain is constant and sharp and I do not hope for a better world for anyone. In fact, I want my pain to be inflicted on others. I want no one to escape."
- American Psycho - Bret Easton Ellis (1991)
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