Who was more intelligent?

Dylan and Eric both very intelligent, but I was wondering if anyone knows, or has an opinion, on which one was more intelligent.

Ive read that Dylan had a very high IQ so probably in that way of intelligence he was smarter than Eric butl for me being smart is not only a high IQ, is more than that and we didnt meet them in person so is hard to say, for me they were equally smart, Eric more impulsive and Dylan more spiritual but both equally smart.

I think they were both intelligent in their own ways. Dylan seemed like he had a greater ability to think philosophically; he wrote more about his thoughts on the complexities of life and existence. To me he came across as a deep thinker.

Eric, on the other hand, seemed like he was smarter in a less abstract way. He was more methodical and he had an aptitude for planning (even though Columbine did not quite turn out has he had planned).

So I guess in the way that we typically think of intelligence, Dylan would be considered the smarter one, but I think they were both smart boys who had different skills.

There is no evidence they were intelligent. Dylan took calculus, but he was terrible at it. Eric got average grades in classes with average students.

Not sure where this myth came from.

All I know is the least intelligent of the two was the boy who used clocks with plastic components for their time bombs.

lasttrain wrote:

There is no evidence they were intelligent.  Dylan took calculus, but he was terrible at it.  Eric got average grades in classes with average students.

Not sure where this myth came from.

Dylan was terrible at it because he didn't try; he didn't care. Considering Dylan went to a school for students who were advanced, I wouldn't really call that "average". He was definitely in advanced classes but didn't apply himself. Not too sure about Eric though nor do I know what their IQ's could have been but I'd be willing to bet Dylan's was higher.

Also, I believe dylan scored quite high on his SAT, which was probably the reason he was accepted into college, despite his low GPA.

Jenn wrote:

Dylan was terrible at it because he didn't try; he didn't care. Considering Dylan went to a school for students who were advanced, I wouldn't really call that "average". He was definitely in advanced classes but didn't apply himself. Not too sure about Eric though nor do I know what their IQ's could have been but I'd be willing to bet Dylan's was higher.

If not trying was evidence of intelligence, there would be an Einstein on every street corner.

I don't believe Dylan's admission to CHIPS is evidence of intelligence. First of all, he was in elementary school. Second, according to Brooks Brown in No Easy Answers, Dylan's parents had to protest to get him in. Third, it seems anyone could get in if their parents requested it. Byron Klebold was in it. Heck, even Brooks Brown was in it. In the 80s they put everyone in these programs if the parents pushed for it.

DaisyDelRey wrote:

Also, I believe dylan scored quite high on his SAT, which was probably the reason he was accepted into college, despite his low GPA.  

Dylan got a 1210 on his SAT, or 75%

To put that into perspective, there were more than a quarter of a million kids who got a higher score than him.

You are not distinguished at something if as an 18 year-old there are 250,000 other 18 year-olds who can do it better than you. And that's just in the US.

That he was accepted to that program because his parents made something or that he was bad in calculus (and we wont know anyway because he got bad grades there because he wanted not because he couldnt), doesnt mean anything. Being smart is not only get excellent grades and being the valedictorian of the high school graduation with a scholarship to Cambrigde, like I said, is more than that, Dylan could see what many of the kids of his age didnt see, he was againts that system that see us like robots and againts that society that is stupid most of the time. That is being really smart because most of the people dont think about it and think that everything that happen around is normal and is how it is (which is not many times and is stupid) and both of them were smart for that, there is not discussion about it, their bombs maybe didnt work but they were teens in the end, not experts and it doesnt mean either that they werent smart.

He did score 650 in math, which according to a fast google, puts him in the 86th percentile. Better than I did on mine, but I ended up majoring in English, what do I know?

But that's just a number I guess, there is more to intelligence than that... Personally, I think his writings and the descriptions given of him by his friends paint a picture of someone who was smart, in my opinion.

lasttrain wrote:

Jenn wrote:

Dylan was terrible at it because he didn't try; he didn't care. Considering Dylan went to a school for students who were advanced, I wouldn't really call that "average". He was definitely in advanced classes but didn't apply himself. Not too sure about Eric though nor do I know what their IQ's could have been but I'd be willing to bet Dylan's was higher.

If not trying was evidence of intelligence, there would be an Einstein on every street corner.

I don't believe Dylan's admission to CHIPS is evidence of intelligence.  First of all, he was in elementary school.  Second, according to Brooks Brown in No Easy Answers, Dylan's parents had to protest to get him in.  Third, it seems anyone could get in if their parents requested it.  Byron Klebold was in it.  Heck, even Brooks Brown was in it.  In the 80s they put everyone in these programs if the parents pushed for it.

The question to this thread was "Who do YOU think was more intelligent". I was stating my opinions on why I think Dylan was more intelligent than Eric. And also, Dylan's writings in his journal proved that he was intelligent. And I've never seen a kid just "get into an advanced program" because their parents insisted on it. If that were the case, you'd have tons of kids who were not advanced in these programs and not doing well in them.. at all. And what does what grade you are in have to do with when you are placed in an advanced class? Not really getting the connection on that one. I would think intelligence at a younger age would be a good thing. And well, as far as Brooks Brown is concerned, I take everything he says with a grain of salt as he comes off as a liar and one of those people who uses Columbine for attention.

I stick with my original opinion. Dylan was more intelligent than Eric. To me, Dylan proved he had an intelligent way of thinking. I saw it in his journal. I am not saying I have proof of it though as there is no way to know what either of their IQ's are because they are both dead. But I stick with what I said, I think Dylan's would have been higher and I do think he was very smart but with depression and his impeding suicide, there really was no reason for him to apply himself.

Dylan was better at school and test-taking than Eric, but both were marginal students at best.

The myth that they were intelligent is a lot like the myth that they were "outcasts" or "members of a gang called the Trenchcoat Mafia."

It's something the media put out there to hook readers.

Can someone please explain to me how NOT trying is evidence of intelligence?

Just because you didn't try doesn't mean you WOULD have done well if you had tried.

Part of being intelligent is realizing that you DO have to try.

lasttrain wrote:

The myth that they were intelligent is a lot like the myth that they were "outcasts"

It's something the media put out there to hook readers.

And why exist this then?

btw before you tell me that is not the same to being teased and to being an outcast. I have to say that being an outcast come from being teased and ignore and here you have the proofs about it.

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lasttrain wrote:

Can someone please explain to me how NOT trying is evidence of intelligence?  

Just because you didn't try doesn't mean you WOULD have done well if you had tried.  

Part of being intelligent is realizing that you DO have to try.

And no one is saying that he was smart in calculus, what we said is that he was bad because he didnt try, he didnt study because he didnt care.

I don't remember ANYONE saying "he was smart because he didn't try." Have you actually anything being said? Or did you skim through what was said and start typing? What Jenn was saying was that Dylan was intelligent, although he didn't apply himself. Again, Dylan didn't give a shit, why should he? He was depressed and suicidal. He saw it all as dumb human shit. This doesn't prove that he was smart, nobody ever said that. Read what people like Devon Adams said about him, Susan and Tom, they all can testify that he was intelligent. Be a big kid and read.

I wonder why Zack said that Dylan's wasn't smart enough to study computer science - was he just basing that on his grades?
Also, what subjects did they take in their junior year?

maninthebox wrote:

I wonder why Zack said that Dylan's wasn't smart enough to study computer science - was he just basing that on his grades?
Also, what subjects did they take in their junior year?

Because Zack knew him and didn't buy into all the myths of sensitive little geniuses going on a homicidal rampage.

maninthebox wrote:

I wonder why Zack said that Dylan's wasn't smart enough to study computer science - was he just basing that on his grades?

Maybe because most of the normal people (or what I call: "photocopies") think that being smart is just to get good grades and being popular. You can a see a great example about it in this post ;)

lasttrain wrote:

Dylan was better at school and test-taking than Eric, but both were marginal students at best.

The myth that they were intelligent is a lot like the myth that they were "outcasts" or "members of a gang called the Trenchcoat Mafia."

It's something the media put out there to hook readers.

How do you know they were both 'marginal' students? Where is your proof to back this up? You do not know their IQ's because there is no record of them taking the test. You have absolutely no way of knowing what their intelligence levels were because they are both dead. Dylan (in my opinion) has proof backing up him being intelligent from a young age. His Mother said he was very advanced since a young child. That he was able to figure out puzzles and games that other children his age were not able to figure out. His Mother also said that he was in the advanced program and did very well in it and that he didn't start going downhill until later on in Middle School or early High School. I would imagine this was when he got extremely depressed and probably didn't care anymore. But what does Dylan's own Mother know, right? I mean, you are willing to buy the crap that Dave Cullen and Brooks Brown are trying to sell but when Dylan's own Mother says that her son was very smart and intelligent since childhood you're all like "Oh no, no, no he wasn't. That is just a myth".

Also, uh, how could you possibly say these two were not outcasts? There is evidence logs and videos of witnesses stating that most of the school hated them. That they wished people like them would just "go away" because they were "weird" and "different". Sometimes I honestly wonder if you have even read anything else except Cullen's book because you constantly try to go against the proof that is out there. Dylan, Eric and their group of friends were most definitely outcasts and I do not see how anyone could possibly see it any different than that.

lasttrain wrote:

Can someone please explain to me how NOT trying is evidence of intelligence?  

Just because you didn't try doesn't mean you WOULD have done well if you had tried.  

Part of being intelligent is realizing that you DO have to try.

I love how you twist my words around. I never said Dylan not trying is evidence of him being intelligent. WTH? That doesn't even make any sense. What I said was that Dylan did not try anymore. He was depressed, he was going to be dead soon. And if anyone has ever suffered the kind of depression Dylan has, really all you think about is your depression and wanting to kill yourself. You really couldn't care less about anything else.

Why I think Dylan was intelligent was because of how well he did when he was younger, what his own Mother had said and when you read his writings you can tell that he is very intelligent and that his mind is very advanced and well above people of the same age. I would think most people who read his journal would be able to figure that one out.

SeeMan666 wrote:

I don't remember ANYONE saying "he was smart because he didn't try." Have you actually anything being said? Or did you skim through what was said and start typing? What Jenn was saying was that Dylan was intelligent, although he didn't apply himself. Again, Dylan didn't give a shit, why should he? He was depressed and suicidal. He saw it all as dumb human shit. This doesn't prove that he was smart, nobody ever said that. Read what people like Devon Adams said about him, Susan and Tom, they all can testify that he was intelligent. Be a big kid and read.

Yes, thank you. You basically said everything I was just saying. I am glad someone sees my point and understands what I have been saying.

Ultimately this thread is a matter of opinion, as most topics are concerning Columbine. There is no way to tell for sure who was smarter. I say it was Dylan. I say there is a lot of evidence to back up that this kid was intelligent; that he was smart. He built his own computer for goodness sake. I don't know any "average" teenager that could do that. Sure anyone can state their reasons of why they think Dylan wasn't smart but I have not heard any good arguments yet to disprove this boys intelligence. Just saying "Well Brooks Brown said this" or "That was just a rumor" doesn't disprove anything.

I feel both were very intelligent and I rank their intelligence as equal. Sure, both showed aptitude in some different things but I feel they were on the same level of intelligence. IMO That is one of the reasons they bonded .

Jenn,

You make a lot of points and I will address them in order:

1) They were marginal students because they got terrible grades.  Grades define students.  

2) Eric and Dylan were not outcasts.  32 people in the 11K are listed as their associates.  They had lots of friends from work, extracurricular activities, video projects, etc.  Yes, Eric and Dylan had hostile interactions with others, but for over a year they were planning to commit homicide against everyone at the school--it is not surprising others sensed their hostility and returned it.

3) Dylan's mom put him in CHIPS.  She put Byron in it too.  Hostility to learning (which Dylan showed as soon as he was on his own) is good evidence of lack of intelligence.

lasttrain wrote:

Jenn,

You make a lot of points and I will address them in order:

1) They were marginal students because they got terrible grades.  Grades define students.  

2) Eric and Dylan were not outcasts.  32 people in the 11K are listed as their associates.  They had lots of friends from work, extracurricular activities, video projects, etc.  Yes, Eric and Dylan had hostile interactions with others, but for over a year they were planning to commit homicide against everyone at the school--it is not surprising others sensed their hostility and returned it.

3) Dylan's mom put him in CHIPS.  She put Byron in it too.  Hostility to learning (which Dylan showed as soon as he was on his own) is good evidence of lack of intelligence.

I always prefer character over intelligence. For Dylan I do not think he saw much of the world or encountered the right people to walk a different path than the one he choose. At 18, he was still growing to make such a violent act.

lasttrain wrote:

2) Eric and Dylan were not outcasts.  32 people in the 11K are listed as their associates.  They had lots of friends from work, extracurricular activities, video projects, etc.

And that baffles me even after 3 years of reading about Columbine. The part where Eric rants that he asked and nobody invited him along, that he was the weird Eric KID etc. My god, I'm 24 years old and I didn't have a fraction of the aquaintances/friends that he had, in all my life. I guess the need for companionship was very strong within him. Heck, he had people to hang around school with. Try being alone FOUR years. Not even "friends" you talk to once in a blue moon. Nobody. Can't understand that thing he wrote no matter what.

Each of us are different, but not THAT different as others like to make it out to be.

I must say I disagree. A lot of students don't make the best grades because of learning disabilities, social anxieties, yes bullying, and trouble at school or home. I don not think this means they can be fairly labeled as unintelligent. Dylan's hostility to learning came from the fact that for many years he hated the environment he was in and he probably dreaded school most days. I can understand why he felt that way.
I don't see how that proves his unintelligence either.

lasttrain wrote:

Jenn,

You make a lot of points and I will address them in order:

1) They were marginal students because they got terrible grades.  Grades define students.  

2) Eric and Dylan were not outcasts.  32 people in the 11K are listed as their associates.  They had lots of friends from work, extracurricular activities, video projects, etc.  Yes, Eric and Dylan had hostile interactions with others, but for over a year they were planning to commit homicide against everyone at the school--it is not surprising others sensed their hostility and returned it.

3) Dylan's mom put him in CHIPS.  She put Byron in it too.  Hostility to learning (which Dylan showed as soon as he was on his own) is good evidence of lack of intelligence.

I think neither was dumb, though hard to say whowas more intelligent.

On one account, Dylan seems to have had a better personality. People liked Dylan few liked Eric.

On the other hand, Eric was more "capable". He was the one who made things happen, not Dylan. In both writings, the (publically avalable) videosEric s the more outspoken, pro-active person. Though its not necessarily an indication of intelligence.

Eric had afak mroe "close calls", while Dylan never afaik got close to being caught with anything suspicious, save that common van theft.

Despite Dylan being more seemngly "docile" he was capable of ordering Eric around. There is a witness testimony in the olice files, where two female students remember driving around the CHS parking and scrathcing or slightly bumping Dylan's parked ca with Dylan and Eric inside. Eric jumped out ver angry, cussed them out and thenwanted to go futher. But Dylan stped out, basiclaly told Eric to calm down and get bac in the car and Eric obliged.Then Dylan basiclaly said: "No biggie, no har done, run along" to the girls.

IMHO that episode shows taht Dylan had more "emtotional intelligence" than Eric, despiteErc probably having all aound moe "life-experience" and practical intelligence.

Sabratha wrote:

Despite Dylan being more seemngly "docile" he was capable of ordering Eric around.

Well, in your example, it was Dylan's car that was the object of the incident, so obviously Dylan had a lot more of a say than Eric on the follow up.

I'd actually say that just the fact that Eric took the initiative to act first even though it was Dylan's car tells us that Eric was the dominant one in the duo.


Had it been the other way around (Eric's car gets damaged and Eric starts cussing at whoever did it) I don't think Dylan could have easily ordered Eric to shut up so he, Dylan, could take charge of the situation involving Eric's own car. Really unlikely with what we know of them.

Just from their writings alone, I would tend to say Dylan was slightly more intelligent, but perhaps not as good as expressing himself as Eric. I would really love to have time to analyze both boys' writings more fully, has anyone out there actually done that from an analytical, psychological standpoint?

SodaCanHalfwayOpen wrote:

Just from their writings alone, I would tend to say Dylan was slightly more intelligent, but perhaps not as good as expressing himself as Eric. I would really love to have time to analyze both boys' writings more fully, has anyone out there actually done that from an analytical, psychological standpoint?

Good point. I would need to double check if they were in Dylan's or Eric's car when that happened tbh. It is in the police documents about the shooting. The police made an interview with a lot of students asking if they had anything to do with Eric and Dylan. This parking lot incident was reported to the police by one of the two girls in question.

It a lot of looking through the 11k document tho to find that.

maninthebox wrote:

I wonder why Zack said that Dylan's wasn't smart enough to study computer science - was he just basing that on his grades?
Also, what subjects did they take in their junior year?

I've wondered about that, too. I remember being taken aback when I first read it. He could have been basing it off his grades, which were of course poor mostly due to his lack of effort & depression. If I'm not mistaken (& that's entirely possible haha), Calculus is part of the Computer Science college curriculum, & Dylan I think did legit struggle w. that subject sometimes, so perhaps that was it. I'm not sure what subjects they had in junior year.

I agree with others that Dylan & Eric were both intelligent in different ways. I think it would be hard to say which one of them was actually more intelligent. Eric could be a deep thinker, but I must say I find Dylan's philosophical viewpoints interesting.

They were both smart. In my understanding, the mind is not only the ability to learn well or the presence of any knowledge. For me it is a special quality of mind that allows you to perceive and understand the world around us. The interests of the majority of people do not go beyond what everyday problems or already established opinions. In addition, not every teenager thinks about things that most people simply do not notice, even before they reach old age. From this point of view, Dylan and Eric definitely had a more open-minded than most of their peers. In the diaries of Rachel you can also see her ability to think deeply.

In each their own way they both were.