We are but aren't psycho Translation

I think I may have found someone who translated it... They have excerpts on their tumbler page and a few pages you can read she hand wrote... IDK if I can post the link here... Ask me and I'll PM it to you... I asked if they had the entire book done too BUT IDK if I'll get a reply since I'm not on tumbler.

Anyway to get a hold of Krabbe? I would love to work with someone on a good English translation that isn't laughable.

Tumblr links are not allowed, I'm sorry. And if you want to copy and paste their work here on the forum, you have to get permission from them first or else they could put in a complaint saying that we've stolen their work. What you do in private messaging though is your business, so if you want to exchange Tumblr links, go ahead and do so.

Glad I didn't post the link right away like I was going to

ThoughtBox wrote:

Anyway to get a hold of Krabbe? I would love to work with someone on a good English translation that isn't laughable.

Krabbe said in Dutch interviews that he doesn't even think about translating the book himself. I guess you can get hold of him through his website. There's also a slight chance he lurks here. I know he used to post on the old board.

The other day I was thinking, maybe we can petition a publisher to translate the book? I doubt that's customary though. If they get bombarded with questions about it a company might think, ''hey there's a market for this product''.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] made a thread awhile back where he got permission from a member on Tumblr to post some stuff she translated from the book. Later on today when I have more time, I will see if I can dig up the old thread and post a link to it here. Perhaps it is the same Tumblr user?

Well, I just read Krabbe's book. It was an english language machine translation, causing some grammar mistakes and ambiguity at times, but overall entirely understandable.

My review is as follows:
Krabbe is excellent as far as collecting information and listing facts. This is a very, verys trong side of his book. He basically lists all available information we have on Eric and Dylan's life-history, the diversion, the online chats they had, their writings, some witness reports, the school projects and school movies, the contents of their websites etc.

Krabbe has all of that and he goes to great lenghts to make it in a coherent chonological order.

What Krabbe lacks in? Any sort of analysis. He will for example make a very extensive quote from Dylan, but ofer little to none information about what he considers the quote to mean or which pats are very significant and why.

Krabbe doesn't seem to offer any coherent hypothesis when it comes to the causes. Hejust lists lots of facts and quotes a lot of documents, but ultimately lets the reader make up his own colclusions... or just remain clueless and puzzled.
Overall I'd say its a good book for "columbiners" or people who have some knowledge about the issue and want to get a compehensive list of "who, what when".

If its a casual reader who is more interested in the "why?" then often miniutate of "who what when?", then Krabbe's book will be a poor choice for such a person.


One gripe I have with Krabbe is that he wrote that the basis for his book is just him reading the oficial documents, but he made it clear that he was on the old "Danny Ledonne" columbine massacre forums. For example in the book he recalls that Aamanda Stair was a member of the forums and how did the members react to her presence.

Also at times he seems to be stating things that were discovered by old forum members (at times even seems like he is quoting my own posts). the forums were available to the public and Krabbe's book is not an academic wok requiring him to list all the sources. Havign said that, he fails to name the forum as one of his major sources, which in fact it seems to have been.

Sabratha wrote:

Well, I just read Krabbe's book. It was an english language machine translation, causing some grammar mistakes and ambiguity at times, but overall entirely understandable.

My review is as follows:
Krabbe is excellent as far as collecting information and listing facts. This is a very, verys trong side of his book. He basically lists all available information we have on Eric and Dylan's life-history, the diversion, the online chats they had, their writings, some witness reports, the school projects and school movies, the contents of their websites etc.

Krabbe has all of that and he goes to great lenghts to make it in a coherent chonological order.

What Krabbe lacks in? Any sort of analysis. He will for example make a very extensive quote from Dylan, but ofer little to none information about what he considers the quote to mean or which pats are very significant and why.

Krabbe doesn't seem to offer any coherent hypothesis when it comes to the causes. Hejust lists lots of facts and quotes a lot of documents, but ultimately lets the reader make up his own colclusions... or just remain clueless and puzzled.
Overall I'd say its a good book for "columbiners" or people who have some knowledge about the issue and want to get a compehensive list of "who, what when".

If its a casual reader who is more interested in the "why?" then often miniutate of "who what when?", then Krabbe's book will be a poor choice for such a person.


One gripe I have with Krabbe is that he wrote that the basis for his book is just him reading the oficial documents, but he made it clear that he was on the old "Danny Ledonne" columbine massacre forums. For example in the book he recalls that Aamanda Stair was a member of the forums and how did the members react to her presence.

Also at times he seems to be stating things that were discovered by old forum members (at times even seems like he is quoting my own posts). the forums were available to the public and Krabbe's book is not an academic wok requiring him to list all the sources. Havign said that, he fails to name the forum as one of his major sources, which in fact it seems to have been.

Thanks for your thoughts on the book, you may have saved me some time in trying to find and read it. Sounds like a columbiner with a good knowledge of the evidence and the timeline, and has read most of the 11k, etc., wouldn't really learn or glean anything new from this. Thanks.

Sabratha wrote:

What Krabbe lacks in? Any sort of analysis. He will for example make a very extensive quote from Dylan, but offer little to none information about what he considers the quote to mean or which pats are very significant and why.

Krabbe doesn't seem to offer any coherent hypothesis when it comes to the causes. He just lists lots of facts and quotes a lot of documents, but ultimately lets the reader make up his own conclusions... or just remain clueless and puzzled.

I strongly dissagree. Indeed, the goal of the book was to let readers make up their own mind about the reasons for the massacre. Therefore Krabbe only concentrates on the cold hard facts in the first section. He does however subtly place these quotes in a certain context to achieve that. I actually think this is an advantage he has over Cullen, who manipulates people and makes assumptions/speculations all throughout his book - starting from the first page even. I thought this was refreshing especially compared to a lot of other true crime writers.

Have you read chapter six? It's the last part of the book. He spent 32 pages writing out a very clear analysis about what he thinks caused the tragedy, delving deep into psychology, media and parenting. Again he does this in such fashion that people are still able to dissagree with him. Krabbe never presents his ideas as the ultimate truth. I found it a very comprehensive and satisfactory conclusion.

Sabratha wrote:

Also at times he seems to be stating things that were discovered by old forum members (at times even seems like he is quoting my own posts). the forums were available to the public and Krabbe's book is not an academic wok requiring him to list all the sources. Havign said that, he fails to name the forum as one of his major sources, which in fact it seems to have been.

I have a physical copy and just checked again to make sure. Krabbe extensively thanks and does list the old forum as one of his sources in the afterword. Throughout he mentions or even shout-outs several members like Lporter101, REB10 and Catslynn. To be honest, the first time I read it I had a feeling he was quoting some of my contributions too (I used to post there as Qwerasdai), like a statement I made about their musical taste and NIN not being blamed because they were too famous or recognized in the 90's. He was probably just influenced by some of the ideas floating around the board, just like he influenced others too. Krabbe used to be an active poster (I know his username), in interviews he stated that he used the forum to test some of his theories.

I believe his intent was to write a book catered to people who remember Columbine or have a vague interest in it. Layman so to speak. If these people read it they will gain knowledge that they would otherwise only get by months, or even years of reading the 11k. The only minus I can think of is that none of their friends/acquaintances are included. That would have really set this book apart from all the others, especially because it primarily focuses on Eric and Dylan. Their insight would have proved invaluable. Chris, Nate and Zack would probably turn him down but he could have at least tried.

MegaloX wrote:

I have a physical copy and just checked again to make sure. Krabbe extensively thanks and does list the old forum as one of his sources in the afterword.

Ok, seems like the machine translation I had did not include the afterword. I'll have to check the non-pdf version I had from this forum to compare.

^^ It's on page 400.

MegaloX wrote:

^^ It's on page 400.

The pdf one I had on my mobile device has little over 200 pages. Sems it ends after chapter 5. I'll look at the versions on the forums.

Sabratha wrote:

MegaloX wrote:

^^ It's on page 400.

The pdf one I had on my mobile device has little over 200 pages. Sems it ends after chapter 5. I'll look at the versions on the forums.

Oh, that explains alot. It seems like you never got around to read the conclusion and Krabbe's in depth analysis. Chapter 6 is by far the book's biggest plus point. Although I suspect you will probably strongly disagree with alot of what he says.

BTW, to any of you who still haven't read it. Sabratha and I might have conveyed the impression that the author just took some ideas from the old forum and constructed a book around it. Not true. He only used secondary stuff to shed light on otherwise confusing aspects of the case. Most of the content, especially regarding own theories, are all original.

I don't want to sound like an Anglophile, but I really don't want to read it unless there's a decent translation into English, so I can "enjoy" the book instead of trying to wonder what the hell he really meant in his own language.

Yeah, just read the remainder today, found a complete copy. The one I had on the mobile ended after chapter 5 for some reason.

Overall, I think he nailed the basic differences between the two shooters and their basic motives. Dylan wants to kill himself and his whole idea of NBK is built around suicide. Eric hates the way society works, the dumb, debilitating routine of school-job-money-morals-law etc. He wants not to be part of this whole mess, and the only way to do so is lash back. Suicide for him is just a way to escape the consequences of his attack (and being again a part of society, behind bars this time).

That's where me and Krabbe agree 100%. He also clearly states that Dylan was not a follower and that he had his own, deliberate and thought-out role in the killings. Again, I agree.

He also agrees with my old theory, that Eric and Dylan have not read each others journals.

But Krabbe then believes Eric had some miraculous inner-conversion early 1999 and is for some unclear reason afraid of the massacre and is looking for a way out. That from that moment on, heis the follower and Dylan the leader and mastermind.

Krabbe, who up to that point was pretty rational has thus suddenly turned into Cullen, except that he thinks Eric was the follower. Only reasons for this theory he states are:
1) The alleged Eric crying on the basement tapes
2) Eric stopped his journal activity shortly before the massacre. Krabbe also claims Eric became less active in the bomb making and other preparations.
3) Eric wrote about a "dream" where there is a shool shooting and he is a victim saved by SWAT.


I find this all somewhat absurd. First of all, Eric always had a way out. If he felt like he's not ready for the suicide, he could have ratted Dylan out to the police, decline to participate or just not commit suicide with Dylan. Eric wasn't the type of guy to let himself be pressed into doing stuff taht went against his judgement.

Eric was actually very busy with NBK preparations before the massacre. We have witness reports who say that Eric "basically became a bat in March and started living in his garage". It also seems all the bombs for NBK were in fact built by Eric himself in the garage, Dylan didn't seem to contrubute much (he didn't have the space to do it - always his mom was around).

The deams in the psychology class as well as soem creative writings of both E&D were duping delight and creatign "amazing foreshadowing". They were gloating that they can get away with it. It was very clearly a power-trip for both, but more so for Eric.

Even on the alleged basement tapes, Eric seems to be the one acting more naturally, more like the Eric we see in his journals and his websites. It is Dylan who is trying hard to confom and behaves less like the Dylan in his journal. Krabbe notices the fact taht it is Dylan conforming to Eric's standard and not the other way around, but somehow he fails to make a connection between this fact and Eric's role as an "equal partner in crime".

Last, but not least Eric seemed to be happy during the shooting, even after his beloved bombs failed. Eric took a more active part than Dylan, taking more shots and initiating most of the action (shooting cops etc). Dylan did more taunting, Eric was more straight to the point and killed more. It seems that it was in fact Eric's broken nose that ended the killing spree in the library, Dylan himself wasn't persistent on it. Most witnesses were even under the impression that Eric was the one giving orders to Dylan.

To sum it up: I didn't buy Cullen's "Dylan as a follower" theory and I buy Krabbe's "Eric as a follower" theory even less.

Having said that, I do agree with the vast majority of everything else Krabbe stated. His "Eric as a follower who is afraid to die" notion really comes up from the blue at the very end of the book and doesn't even mesh well with everything else Krabbe himself wrote up to that point.

From the book:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] started in 2005 as a site for the Columbine game but whose discussion (/discuss/viewforum.php?F=5), with participants from around the world, has become the meeting point for Columbine connoisseurs. I found many obscure information and interesting insights, and it was often my guide for newsprint and magazine papers and other material. Two posters should be specially mentioned: lporter101 that many complete articles, references to articles and transcripts of television interviews placed, and REB10 who gathered the best versions of nearly fifty films by and about Eric and Dylan and made downloadable; see 'REB10's Ultimate Download Thread'.

Thanks I owe to the wise and otherwise eavesdroppers of those movies on [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - it is not easy to be wise out there such as a few students in a noisy cafeteria sit through each other while talking on the microphone it is addressed.

The forum still has a million hits a month, which unfortunately led to problems with enough bandwidth; in January 2011 a major cleanup was held which disappeared much old material.

sororityalpha wrote:

From the book:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] started in 2005 as a site for the Columbine game but whose discussion (/discuss/viewforum.php?F=5), with participants from around the world, has become the meeting point for Columbine connoisseurs. I found many obscure information and interesting insights, and it was often my guide for newsprint and magazine papers and other material. Two posters should be specially mentioned: lporter101 that many complete articles, references to articles and transcripts of television interviews placed, and REB10 who gathered the best versions of nearly fifty films by and about Eric and Dylan and made downloadable; see 'REB10's Ultimate Download Thread'.

Thanks I owe to the wise and otherwise eavesdroppers of those movies on [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - it is not easy to be wise out there such as a few students in a noisy cafeteria sit through each other while talking on the microphone it is addressed.

The forum still has a million hits a month, which unfortunately led to problems with enough bandwidth; in January 2011 a major cleanup was held which disappeared much old material.

Wasn't taht part written after chapter 5?

ThoughtBox wrote:

Anyway to get a hold of Krabbe? I would love to work with someone on a good English translation that isn't laughable.

At first I was puzzled by the frequent mix ups between "she" and "they" (and both ways!) and then I recalled my deeply-buried knowledge of German -- and without even looking it up I knew the same applied to Dutch.

Sabratha wrote:

His "Eric as a follower who is afraid to die" notion really comes up from the blue at the very end of the book and doesn't even mesh well with everything else Krabbe himself wrote up to that point.

This is probably just a misinterpretation on your part thanks to the sketchy translation. I read the book more than two times, in my native language. Eric is never described as a follower. Krabbe argues that as time progressed and judgment day approached, Eric seemed to become less invested in the attack and Dylan more invested. He also mentions there is some evidence that suggests Eric was (unconsciously) looking for a way out - like him sending a sort of application letter to id Software, wanting to join the Marines, leaving clues around etc.

Sure these can also be seen as instances of duping delight/distractions, but that's just where you two differ in opinion. He doesn't present his theories as the absolute undeniable truth, like Cullen does.

Krabbe states very clear that Eric remained ''in charge'' until the very end, even if his heart weren't in it anymore, because he had gone too far. There was no going back after all the planning and boasting. According to Eric's logic a soldier never blows his composure and makes sure the objective is completed no matter what.

MegaloX wrote:

Sabratha wrote:

His "Eric as a follower who is afraid to die" notion really comes up from the blue at the very end of the book and doesn't even mesh well with everything else Krabbe himself wrote up to that point.

This is probably just a misinterpretation on your part thanks to the sketchy translation. I read the book more than two times, in my native language. Eric is never described as a follower.

(...)Krabbe states very clear that Eric remained ''in charge'' until the very end

Ok, after Krabbe mentions that going NBK with Eric was for Dylan just a last resort and his primary idea was to go NBK with a girl, he writes (the machine translation has it so):

Krabbe (english machine translation): wrote:

"What seemed at first sight the manipulation of a weak follower by an evil leader, was rather the opposite. Eric clung to Dylan, but it was an unrequited love. Dylan did not care about him (...) he used him for his own NBK.

Then Krabbe goes into the whole NBK deam and states taht its evidence that Eric was frightened of Dylan and the shooting and that he suddenly identified himself with victims and SWAT, not the shooter. That Eric was lookign for a way out of the shooting.

I don't buy it.

Eric spent a lot of time and effort on NBK, up till the very day before the shooting. He built all the bombs and was also working hard to "leave a lasting impression on the world". That's what the NBK drea at his psychology class was for. That's what the carving was made for. This was Eric gving us his idea of "amazing foreshadowing" and "leaving his mark". He laughed at us and wanted to leave stuf so we would talk about him and remember him.

He was also trying to confuse us ("when in doubt, confuse the crap out of the enemy") and it seems he did succeed in confusing Krabbe. I wonder if part of all this was Eric trying to confuse Dylan a bit as well...

See, you misinterpret stuff. It's not your fault. Like I said in an earlier topic, this translation is very rudimental and doesn't do the book right at all. You should also consider that Krabbe wrote it in a literary sense, which makes it even more confusing.

He never implied that Eric and Dylan switched roles. It's not like Eric became a follower. What he says is that Dylan remained a ''weak follower'', but manipulated Eric into making NBK a reality because he could never commit suicide on his own.

Sabratha wrote:

Then Krabbe goes into the whole NBK deam and states that its evidence that Eric was frightened of Dylan and the shooting and that he suddenly identified himself with victims and SWAT, not the shooter.

That ain't true. I just checked it again. He never stated that Eric was afraid of Dylan. In the dream he does identify with the victims and SWAT. Krabbe just wonders aloud if it might have a double meaning.

Sabratha wrote:

I don't buy it.

Well, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Sabratha wrote:

He built all the bombs

That's only an assumption. Evidence suggests otherwise. They both worked on the bombs.

The rest of what you say is all just your theories. They aren't facts. Some will agree with you, others will not.

MegaloX wrote:

See, you misinterpret stuff. It's not your fault. Like I said in an earlier topic, this translation is very rudimental and doesn't do the book right at all. You should also consider that Krabbe wrote it in a literary sense, which makes it even more confusing.

Well, the translation is the only one we have now. Not much of a Dutch spekaer myself. Perhaps the machine translation makes Krabbe's opinion sound stronger than it was in the original. The machine translation suggests Krabbe thinks they swiched roles (or at least went from equal partners to Dylan dragging the doubting Eric behind him).

As far as I know, all the bombs were built in Eric's place and while Dylan might have helped, other people did not notice Dylan being very busy and absent all of a sudden before the massacre. They did notice this in Eric. There is the Eric "just became a bat -- He stayed inside his garage all the time" statement from a neighbour. CHS students also mentioned Eric becoming more busy and less active after school in regular events etc.

True, perhaps we have such statements about Eric bcause he lived near people at a normal street and was an extravert, while Dylan lived in the "High Castle", was an introvert and had less contacts with peopel anyways. But we do have evidence and witness reports of Eric spending a lot of time in the garage workign on bombs before the massacre. We do not have such corresponding reports regarding Dylan. Eric was also the guy who asked other people tips on bombs and asked a lot of people about napalm. Every piece of vidence points to Eric being the "bomb man" in this pair.


I think the "doubting Eric" is Krabbe's speculation based on either a sudden lack of evidence (Eric stopping writing for a time) or second hand eports of basement tapes none of us got to see. I just don't see this as substantiated, wich is a bit odd since Krabbe tries to substantiate the avst majority of other stuff in his book.

My "Equal partners in crime" theory is better substantiated by the active role both played in the shooting, the amount of shots fired at people from point-blank range and witness reports stating that Eric was very busy in his garage before the shooting.

Sabratha wrote:

Perhaps the machine translation makes Krabbe's opinion sound stronger than it was in the original.

It does, indeed. Subtle nuances are missing and literary descriptions lose their meaning. Alot of it is altered. I already noticed it when the translation was first posted and warned people about it in a different topic. Unfortunately this is all we have. I don't expect the book to ever receive a proper English translation, Krabbe himself doesn't either.

Sabratha wrote:

Every piece of vidence points to Eric being the "bomb man" in this pair.

I agree with you to a certain point. The idea to use bombs for the attack probably did come from Eric. He was the pyromaniac of the two. They were built in the Harris' garage for practical reasons. Dylan's father was always around because he worked from home. The majority of bombs were constructed in a relatively short span of time, just weeks before the attack and probably on sunday afternoons when Eric's parents visited family. It were alot of bombs. There's no way Eric could have built them all by himself. He needed Dylan's help with this.

Sabratha wrote:

I think the "doubting Eric" is Krabbe's speculation based on either a sudden lack of evidence (Eric stopping writing for a time) or second hand eports of basement tapes none of us got to see. I just don't see this as substantiated, wich is a bit odd since Krabbe tries to substantiate the avst majority of other stuff in his book.

I'm not sure I concur with him either. Just to be clear, i'm not necessarily a Krabbe advocate. There's plenty of stuff in his book that I don't go along with. In a way I think the ''equal partners in crime'' theory is more probable too. However, he did make me think. I guess it's possible. Sure it might not be very substantiated, but IMO, Eric being a cold hearted psychopath isn't either - just like alot of other aspects in this case.

This is what makes Columbine so interesting. All the different opinions, theories and possibilities.

MegaloX wrote:

I agree with you to a certain point. The idea to use bombs for the attack probably did come from Eric. He was the pyromaniac of the two. They were built in the Harris' garage for practical reasons. Dylan's father was always around because he worked from home. The majority of bombs were constructed in a relatively short span of time, just weeks before the attack and probably on sunday afternoons when Eric's parents visited family. It were alot of bombs. There's no way Eric could have built them all by himself. He needed Dylan's help with this.

No argument there. Just pointing out that Eric stopping journal entries does not correspond to him losing faith in the shooting and overall becoming passive. He was very active and busy with other things related to the shooting in spring 1999, such as bombs.

I'm sure Dylan helped with the bombs, but if Eric lost heart he ouldn't be working on them so hard. Dylan alsone sure as hell wouldn't be able to finish the job (al easons stated above, including his dad in his house).

Crickets:

10 made 10-22-98
04 made 12-18-98
04 made 01-03-99
09 made 02-08-99
13 made 02-17-99

Total: 40 [used 1] = 39 Crickets

Super Crickets:

14 made 04-14-99

Total: 14 Super Crickets

Pipe Bombs:

03 made 10-22-98 ALPHA
01 made 10-22-98 BETA
06 made 10-23-98 BETA
03 made 10-31-98 CHARLIE 2" x 6"
03 made 03-19-99 DELTA
02 made 03-19-99 ECHO
05 made 03-29-99 DELTA
02 made 03-29-99 FOXTROT

Total: 25 Pipe Bombs  


From Oct 22 1998 to April 20 1999:

In 6 months, Eric/Dylan spent 10 days, just over a week and a half, making bombs.

Lol, sororityalpha is like a walking Columbine encyclopedia. It's great to have you here!

I see a pattern: a flurry of activity in october 1998, then nothign save a few Co2 here and there, then a pipebomb fllury in March 1999, then 14 crickets all of a sudden a wee before the massacre.

There's still the big duffel and car bombs left, but seing the purchases I imagine these were rushed in April 1999. Molotovs probably also, but tehse are easy to make.

But all in all there is a pause in activity between october and mid December. Overall between October 1998 and mid-March 1999 there's not much happening, just some Co2.

Curious. Why the general pause between the big flurry of activities in October and March? Was it simply times where they both had free time to work without adults around?

PostSubject: Re: Was Rachel's journal a fraud? Today at 5:27 pm Select/Unselect multi-quote Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post
I just finished Krabbe's book. Good read! And I haven't thought about (gawd) being placed after NBK and not Eric. Subtle but important difference.

I have learned many things about the case. Thanks to reads on this forum and Krabbe's book.

Also some of Krabbe's conclusions are;

- that Eric wanted to be found out (for instance the gun shop calling his home when the bullets were ordered)
- that both not wanted to do the whole thing at the moment they were driving to CHS on april 20th 99, but
there was no way back.
- Dylan not caring for Eric (Dylan was the real "nut" in Krabbes book)

What do you think?

where do you find the machine translation of the book and how does one get a machine to translate it?