Your bedrock beliefs about Columbine

There are some beliefs where I'm willing to give some leeway ... but there are others where I can't give an inch.

The one belief that I cannot shake is my conviction that both Eric and Dylan were at or near the bottom of the social totem pole, that both boys deeply resented their lack of status, and that their resentment boiled over into rage.

Eric did not walk through the hallways thinking that he was a swaggering ladies' man who only had to snap his fingers to get girls to open their legs. He may or may not have been bullied badly, but he was a nobody at that school. You can see it in Eric in Columbine - the girls openly "jack him in the ass," as one of his friends says. He cares about what others think about him, and it drives him nuts that all too often he ends up as the butt-monkey.

You might get me to say that Eric was a narcissist. Hell, you might even get me to say that he was a psychopath - clearly there was more going on inside his head than a bruised ego. (To me, "psychopath" is so much psychobabble.) But you will never get me to say that he was anywhere near the top of the pack at Columbine.

The common interpretation of the infamous "wall of jocks" moment is just people parroting Brooks' (bad) interpretation of events.  The "flailing of arms" never even happens.  I still can't tell what the fuck happens to Erik Veik since the camera goes apeshit right when they pass.

sergeant hartman wrote:

The common interpretation of the infamous "wall of jocks" moment is just people parroting Brooks' (bad) interpretation of events.

My interpretation is that, when Eric sees the jocks, he stops talking and tenses up. He's nervous.

As he walks near the bigger boys, he bows his head like a little dog.

Also note that one of the jocks is flipping off the camera the whole time that the "wall" is walking toward Eric.

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The "flailing of arms" never even happens.  I still can't tell what the fuck happens to Erik Veik since the camera goes apeshit right when they pass.

It goes apeshit because one of the jocks tries to knock it out of his hands.

LPorter101 wrote:

sergeant hartman wrote:

The common interpretation of the infamous "wall of jocks" moment is just people parroting Brooks' (bad) interpretation of events.

My interpretation is that, when Eric sees the jocks, he stops talking and tenses up. He's nervous.

As he walks near the bigger boys, he bows his head like a little dog.

Also note that one of the jocks is flipping off the camera the whole time that the "wall" is walking toward Eric.

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The "flailing of arms" never even happens.  I still can't tell what the fuck happens to Erik Veik since the camera goes apeshit right when they pass.

It goes apeshit because one of the jocks tries to knock it out of his hands.

This type of analysis is very Dave Cullen-esque. You know, the type of analysis you purport to hate.

I don't think Eric was at the bottom. But he wasn't at the top, and he thought he deserved to be. That's what he hated.

One theme in all his writings is his desire for power over others.

Were Eric and Dylan at the bottom in CHS? I don't know, I wasn't there.

Were Eric and Dylan at the bottom on a general scale of high school students? No.

Proof?

We have this video where Eric is walking in the school with his friends (Mike and Erik), killing time with them, talking casually. I know there are high school students who have no one to hang around with.

We also have a video where Dylan is driving to school with his friend Nate in the morning, listening to music, being goofy. I know there are high school students who have no one to drive to school with - or don't even have a car to begin with.

Eric and Dylan had it much better than many high schoolers in the world.

Brooks' terrible depiction of the "wall of jocks" incident troubles me. (IRC) he claims they hit Eric with elbows and that Dylan was holding the camera. He must know that wasn't true.

Eric did rant about Brooks being a compulsive liar, and even Wayne wrote down that Brooks is a con artist. Is he? Brooks is one of the biggest sources of Columbine, so can we really trust what comes out of his mouth? There are times when I even wonder if the whole "Brooks, I like you now" dialogue on 4/20 really happened.

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This type of analysis is very Dave Cullen-esque.  You know, the type of analysis you purport to hate.

That's a low blow. Have you no sense of decency, sir?

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I don't think Eric was at the bottom.

He was near the bottom - far nearer the bottom than the top.

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But he wasn't at the top, and he thought he deserved to be. That's what he hated.

Yes.

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One theme in all his writings is his desire for power over others.

Yes, that is a good point. But where did that desire come from? It came from his feeling small and weak.

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Brooks' terrible depiction of the "wall of jocks" incident troubles me. (IRC) he claims they hit Eric with elbows and that Dylan was holding the camera. He must know that wasn't true.

Brooks may or may not be a fibber and/or a truth-stretcher, but he does *not* say that Dylan was holding the camera. The narrator is the one who says that.



BROOKS
And so you see the jocks flail their elbows right into Erik* and almost knock the camera out of his hand...

*He is talking about the boy holding the camera - Erik Veik.

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Were Eric and Dylan at the bottom on a general scale of high school students? No.

Proof?

We have this video where Eric is walking in the school with his friends (Mike and Erik), killing time with them, talking casually. I know there are high school students who have no one to hang around with.

We also have a video where Dylan is driving to school with his friend Nate in the morning, listening to music, being goofy. I know there are high school students who have no one to drive to school with - or don't even have a car to begin with.

Eric and Dylan had it much better than many high schoolers in the world.

That is a good point, John Denver. I was a carless loner myself.

But the thing is that Eric and Dylan were not comparing themselves to all of the high schoolers in the world ... they were comparing themselves to the upper-middle-class kids at Columbine High School in Jefferson County, Colorado.

I look at the '99 yearbook, and I am always struck by how handsome the student body looked. Those kids glowed. Almost all of them were fit, clear-skinned, and well-groomed. I would not have fit in there at all. (I didn't fit in at my school, which had a similar socioeconomic - but far different cultural - makeup.)

That is why I say that Eric and Dylan were near the bottom - not *at* the bottom, but *near* the bottom - of the senior totem pole at Columbine High School. They were "normal" seniors, so they weren't as lowly as the fat acne-ridden freshmen, or "special" kids like Kyle Velasquez. But they were not high-status, by any means.

You make a lot of good points. One thing that always truck me about Columbine when the footage first started airing was how sports-oriented it was. That, and how affluent it was. When the entire township, as well we the student body, is comprised of shiny happy people it tends to alienate those adolescents whom are suffering through it.

That machine that Columbine had become can grind extremely fine, and I can see them both ending up a the relative bottom of the social ladder.

Even if all of the interviews that told of bullying and oppression were exaggerated, there's still the fact that they all exist. Its like the old saying goes, "where there's smoke, there's fire"