Why do you think Cho did it?

What do you think was CHO motive.

I was reading wikipedia entry and there are three possible reasons listed as motive.

1. Strong psychiatric delusion
Dave Cullen suggested this in his Columbine book. He said basically Cho had no real rational impulse for
the killing instead he was under the control of a "psychotic" delusion. As evidence he gives the fact that Cho
showed no emotion when doing his massacre unlike say Eric who I guess showed some emotion in his massacre.

Many witnesses also report that Cho was stoned faced during the shooting and lacking emotions he did not speak to anyone
or show any feeling he simple reloaded his weapons and shot people in class rooms.

2. Possible Bullying
I am not aware of Cho being bullied reading the wikipedia entry it says cho was bullied in high school and made fun of because of his voice
when reading a passage in school.
Perhaps the stalking incident made him feel bad and mistreated by the virginia tech faculty.

3. Poor job prospect after graduation
I watched a cho documentary on youtube. And it describes him as a "mediocre English major" with little chance of getting
a good job after graduation.

4. His novel being rejected
Apparently Cho wrote a large manuscript and mailed it to a publishing company in new york, profesor lucinda roy describes this
novel as a "teen age story about the redeeming power of love", unfortunately for him his novel was rejected.

5.Schizophrenia
This is a possibility he did describe himself as multiple people.
Know identities
-Seung Cho = his normal self
-question mark kid= According to his roommates he saw question mark kid as an ideal version of himself and used this identity when introducing himself to girls.
-Ax Ismael= In this persona he describes himself as a messianic figure who fights for the oppressed against "bullies". He considers himself "anti terrorist number 1"

6. Social Isolation
This could be a reason. Apparently in his time in college not even his parent visited him, he was descirbed by one of his roomates as a "loner" who never talked to anyone.
Yet according to some psychologist on the you tube virginia tech documentary his play "Mr.Browstone" reveals a yearning for camaraderie.


So the question is why? Why? Why????????

For me the mainly reason was his deeply mentally illness. Ho was not prepared to live in normal society and no one helped him with that. The same happened in Lanza's case.

I do think Cho was mentally unstable and by all evidence he at least had issues adapting to society and at most he was entirely unfit to even attempt living in society.

That's relaly the elephant in the room - his maladaptive behavior, selective mutism, his writings etc. By all evidence this was a very disturbed individual.

Was Cho bullied when he was younger? Perhaps. This isn't at all unlikely given how "weird" he must have seemed to other kids.

His novel? Again back to point one. Its not just him being a poor writer, its his inability to grasp the way relations between people work and his inability to create believable characters.

Job prospects? We are back to point one. His mental condition would give him trouble to keep a job even if he had the skills for it.

Social isolation was probably a big factor, btu again I'd argue the underlying reason for his isolation was his mental state. There's too many unconnected people who mentioned taht they tried being friends with him or rtalking to him to brush this off as just mass survivors guilt.

At least some people tried interactiung with him and by all evidence it was he who shied away from that.



Bottom line: My own impression is that Cho had serious mental problems which resulted in him having strong issues when trying to adapt to life in society.I think any interpretation of Cho needs to start from this. In this I see a paralel with Adam Lanza and no paralel with E&D.

He had a social disorder, which meant no matter what he did, he wouldn't be able to have what all around him are having, and if he couldn't have it then others shouldn't and there is no reason to live. He just wanted to be like all the others, confident and well spoken and enjoy life like the others did, his attempt at having a girlfriend backfired and he came across as creepy.

So my honest opinion is that he did it because others were enjoying life and he wanted to, but couldn't and wanted to take that happiness away from others, and die, and do it in a very dramatic way by sending tapes to the media.

I heard from his roommates that he never wore his baseball cap backwards, only low over his face to mask his eyes, and I think that wearing that hat backward was a throwback to the 90's fashion that Eric and Dylan wore, it was a 'tip of the hat' to Columbine.

Anger seems to have been Cho's drive before and during the shootings. His entire manifesto seems like one giant angry, highly irrational rant targeted against all of society. Was he psychotic? IT certainly is a very strong possibility. Was he bullied? Probably at some point, given that he appears to have never really fit into society, and he clearly functioned on a very different level from everyone around him.

Cho certainly had erratic behavior
here are some I learned of that some people say cho did.

-writing on the dormitory walls the lyrics collective soul shine down
-keeping knives in his residence
-wearing sunglasses and baseball cap even when indoor
-hardly speaking and when he did he usually whispered and took 20 second to respond to people querries
-blank emotionless face
-giving monosyllabic answer to long questions
-setting fires (ok noone saw him do this but there report of the smell of fire in his room)
-threatening suicide
-creating a fake facebook profile for his alter ego question mark kid
-wearing disguises
-Going into people rooms and saying "who am I" repeatedly
-listening to shine by collective soul repeatedly
-Riding his bike in the parking lot in the middle of the night

-watching wwe wresling
-taking pictures of people while they sleep
-taking pictures of people legs under a desk
-having an imaginary girlfriend "spanky"
-sleeping under a bright lightbulb in a bunk bed
-going to sleep really early at 9 pm this is strange for a college student
-filing off serial numbers of his guns (why?)
-violent plays


There must be some more I am forgetting.

Yes I think Cho wearing the baseball cap backwards,in his video, was a reference to columbine cho made.

Yeah Cho probably had something that made him angry.

It seems he felt people committed "emotional sodomy" on him as he writes in his manifesto.

I am not sure what he means describes his anger towards "deceitful charlatans" and "spoiled brats"

I guess he is talking about his fellow students.

James411 wrote:

I am not sure what he means describes his anger towards "deceitful charlatans" and "spoiled brats"

I guess he is talking about his fellow students.

As far as I know V-tech is a very average school, not Ivy-league at all. Many students from poor or very average families. No milionare's kids go there afaik.

Just wanted to point that out.

He did it because he had to

James411 wrote:

3. Poor job prospect after graduation
I watched a cho documentary on youtube. And it describes him as a "mediocre English major" with little chance of getting
a good job after graduation.

4. His novel being rejected
Apparently Cho wrote a large manuscript and mailed it to a publishing company in new york, profesor lucinda roy describes this
novel as a "teen age story about the redeeming power of love", unfortunately for him his novel was rejected.


So the question is why? Why? Why????????

If you look at his school performance he was good enough in high school to be accepted in vtech, he also started off as a business major and dabbled in comp sic. I guess english was his passion, but he was bad at it. But in his videos he brought up how he wanted to be a martyr and how he felt like his "soul was raped". I Think he had depression, coupled with anxiety and other issues he became unhinged and lost touch of reality.

Don't understand the Lanza comparison at all. Lanza was autistic, never went to college and spent weeks in his room at a time. Cho lived a very different life.

Biggest difference of all is Cho didn't shoot toddlers to death.

He very clearly gives his motive in even the small bit of his manifesto that is available to the public. He felt as though he was acting as a a martyr for himself and all the other victims of bullying.
I paraphrase:
"For all the shit you've given me, hollow points right at you."
"You will never know what it is like to die for a cause you spoiled brats, i shall die for the defenseless people of your disgusting acts like jesus christ."
"I say we take no more, we rally up our hammers, our guns, our knives, and we shall kill every last one of this perpertators of vicious crimes against the weak and defenseless. I say we show no mercy and spare none.!"

Ivan wrote:

Don't understand the Lanza comparison at all.

Selective mutism resembles autism in terms of the symptoms and consequences (lack of communication, long term isolation, social frustration and anxiety, bullying).

In this excerpt from the Virginia Tech report, you can see that the way in which Cho's life is described is very similar to what could be said of Lanza's life. Many mass shooters have a lot in common if you look past the surface differences. The details are different but the ongoing themes are the same.
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(Also, Adam did attend college classes while he was in high school and after he graduated. It was one of the factors that led to cutting off communication with his father because he insisted on taking a full course load and his father didn't think that he should. There is a thread in the Sandy Hook section with links to a couple of articles where a professor and fellow student were interviewed if you care to look at it.)

Seung was not autistic. He had a rare disorder that plagued him throughout his life. He spent years at college against his parents bettermint. He found it hard to fit in due to earlier bullying in his life. He was ostracized because he couldn't speak the same way as others obviously due to the fact he rarely did so. He admitted to a professor he was shy and didn't have many friends.

Lanza shot his own mother then killed kids under 10 years old. He suffered from autism or Asperger's. One or the other. He was almost entirely different from Seung. I see more parrells between Dylan Klebold and Seung Hui Cho to be quite blunt and honest.

I don't care if he attended a community college for a semester. It doesn't change the fact he and Cho were different people with different problems. Lanza was angry or something else at little kids. Seung was angry at people his own age for leaving him out of everything JUST like Eric/Dylan ranted and raved about.

Seung basically wanted to be normal like everyone else, but every time he tried it ended up bad. He tried to get a girlfriend but she treated him like a stalker, that didn't work. He just kept trying to be like everyone else, but for whatever reasons (cultural differences, scars from past bullying, his disorder) it just didn't happen, so he became isolated and depressed because of it.

Then he started to look at people his age who have good social lives and party as his enemy, it probably started out as jealousy of wanting what they had and then turned into anger at them for having what he didn't have. He didn't want to live anymore as he felt he was incapable of functioning in this world and will be missing out on fun like everyone else. He decided to not just take his own life but to take away their happiness in the process and also send out a message that he was doing this for other outsiders of the world who were in a similar position as him.

spidEr wrote:

Seung basically wanted to be normal like everyone else, but every time he tried it ended up bad. He tried to get a girlfriend but she treated him like a stalker, that didn't work. He just kept trying to be like everyone else, but for whatever reasons (cultural differences, scars from past bullying, his disorder) it just didn't happen, so he became isolated and depressed because of it.

Then he started to look at people his age who have good social lives and party as his enemy, it probably started out as jealousy of wanting what they had and then turned into anger at them for having what he didn't have. He didn't want to live anymore as he felt he was incapable of functioning in this world and will be missing out on fun like everyone else. He decided to not just take his own life but to take away their happiness in the process and also send out a message that he was doing this for other outsiders of the world who were in a similar position as him.

Honestly I feel like this is the most likely explanation out of any. He was Elliot Rodger before Elliot Rodger was a thing. Also makes sense why Elliot looked up to him then.

Ivan wrote:

Seung was not autistic.

I know that Cho was not diagnosed with autism. I mentioned autism in comparison to selective mutism because you suggested that Adam was unlike Cho because he had autism. In fact, autism and selective mutism have some things in common and can lead to similar social and emotional consequences.

Still, it wouldn't be terribly off-base to wonder whether Cho was autistic based on what was reported about him. He had an aversion to touch and avoided eye contact, he declined to communicate even when directly addressed, he did not engage socially, even with his own family and his affect was flat. During an assessment in high school, they specifically wanted to rule out autism as a possible cause for his issues and according to one article, Cho's own mother told a relative that he was autistic when he was a child while a different article says that a pastor from his childhood suggested that Cho's mother have him checked out but she declined.
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His professors at college also discussed what his problem might be and one said that they had considered autism. I didn't suggest that Cho was autistic but if I had, I would not be the first person to wonder about that.

Peter Langman actually thinks that Cho was probably schizophrenic which he also believes about Adam Lanza. I don't think that I believe that either one was schizophrenic but that's another theory and another possible link.

Aside from that, Cho's diagnoses (first social anxiety disorder, then selective mutism and depression) have a lot in common with Adam's own issues. Adam had an anxiety disorder and a professional who worked with Adam said that he was "the most anxious youth" that he'd ever seen. Adam also had problems with communication. He had expressive and speech disorders as a child for which he went to therapy and it was noted that he seemed to understand more than he could express verbally, which sounds a lot like Cho. I'm sure that his difficulties with communication and the isolation, anxiety and frustration they caused would have been familiar to Cho, since he came to America without knowing how to speak English and later on, because of his selective mutism. They were also both depressed for years. Cho was diagnosed in high school (I think) and Nancy Lanza voiced concerns about her son's depression while he was still in elementary school, though it was never really treated and he did not even speak to a professional until several years after this started. Adam thought of himself as a loser for years (at least from the age of 10 or 11) which is very similar to Cho's poem about a boy named "Loser." Adam even wrote poetry like Seung and he wrote at least one play, which was found on his hard drive (unreleased but described by investigators). There was bullying, rejection and disappointment in both of their lives due to their disabilities and it probably also contributed to low self-esteem that sparked a need to "prove" themselves as powerful, capable and important. They were also both suicidal for a long time but that is probably not particularly unique among mass shooters.

Anyway, I don't think that their experiences in life were extremely dissimilar and their problems actually seem to be very similar. That's why I posted the excerpt from the Virginia Tech report. Seung was probably not angry with others as much as he was angry about his isolation as well as his own failures or inadequacies and his dim prospects for the future, just like Adam, Eric, Elliot and other shooters. Many are genuinely afflicted with issues for which they are not responsible (physical ailments, autism, anxiety disorders, depression, PDD, other mental illnesses) but which do impair their functioning and they clearly do not want to see themselves as dysfunctional or less capable than other people. They project their rage and self-hatred outward as they begin the process of self-destruction and you can't completely trust their perceptions of their own persecution because their thinking probably becomes exaggerated and distorted through depression and isolation.

What are the parallels that you see between Seung-Hui and Dylan? I think the most significant similarity between Cho and Lanza is the difficulty communicating and the resulting isolation that they had in common. Adam and Seung seem to be two of the most isolated shooters (especially for shooters of their age group), even with the "loner" stereotype that gets thrown around so much (and the excerpt explains, in the last few sentences, why I feel this is so significant). Dylan had a social life and several close friends (although he was not very open with them) and even Adam managed to form some social connections on and offline in his later years but Seung didn't seem to have had a single friend since childhood (though, maybe I am wrong about that? I don't know much about Cho.). I don't think that they were exactly alike but I do think that Cho and Lanza were more similar than some other shooters so my original point is that I definitely understand the comparison between the two of them. I'm open to hearing what you have to say about Dylan though.

(If you're interested in Cho in relation to other shooters, I'd say to check out the report on the NIU shooter. There is information on the similarities between Cho and Kazmierczak, another shooter who may (or may not) have been of special interest to Lanza.)

sscc wrote:

I know that Cho was not diagnosed with autism. I mentioned autism in comparison to selective mutism because you suggested that Adam was unlike Cho because he had autism. In fact, autism and selective mutism have some things in common and can lead to similar social and emotional consequences.

Still, it wouldn't be terribly off-base to wonder whether Cho was autistic based on what was reported about him. He had an aversion to touch and avoided eye contact, he declined to communicate even when directly addressed, he did not engage socially, even with his own family and his affect was flat. During an assessment in high school, they specifically wanted to rule out autism as a possible cause for his issues and according to one article, Cho's own mother told a relative that he was autistic when he was a child while a different article says that a pastor from his childhood suggested that Cho's mother have him checked out but she declined.
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His professors at college also discussed what his problem might be and one said that they had considered autism. I didn't suggest that Cho was autistic but if I had, I would not be the first person to wonder about that.

Peter Langman actually thinks that Cho was probably schizophrenic which he also believes about Adam Lanza. I don't think that I believe that either one was schizophrenic but that's another theory and another possible link.

You know, I can easily see Cho as being autistic. This might not be a good comparison to make, but Cho's tendency to make up fictional people and pretend that they were real (like his twin brother "Question Mark" and his girlfriend from outer space) could be compared to Christian Weston Chandler's persistent delusions that his fictional characters Sonichu and Rosechu are real.

On the low end of the autism spectrum (the kids that attend regular high schools and colleges and are usually diagnosed as adults as their symptoms are so mild) they are just viewed as shy and quiet kids who like to spend time alone reading books and don't speak much in class. So there it is definitely similar and I can see people with selective mutism easily being misdiagnosed with mild forms of autism/asperger's.

Oddly, when Cho sent the first 50 pages of his novel to a professor for him/her to read, they thought enough of it (calling it a story about the redemptive power of teenage love) to send it out to be critiqued by someone for possible publication.

No professor or writer I know would put thier name or reputation on the line with a colleague in the industry were the work anything like "Richard McBeef or Mr. Brownstone". It must have been decent, at least, for someone to forward it on for him.

I would love to get a copy of it to see what it was actually like. Maybe " McBeef's Revenge" would have taught us something of life and love...

Edit: sorry, it seems OP had pointed out much of what I stated already.

I have to agree with spider. Cho was the elliot rodger before elliot rodger was a thing. I think he wanted to fit in but could not and then he got jealous of people.

Adam Lanza is more mysterious. I think Adam Lanza wanted society to accept his attraction to children but he knew people would never accept his sexuality so he went crazy.

I would say some shooter are more isolated than others. Like this Nick Cruz guy he had a girlfriend so that makes him relatively normal compared to other school shooter. I do not think Cho ever had a girlfriend I am not sure If Adam Lanza ever had a girlfriend either.

James411 wrote:

I am not sure If Adam Lanza ever had a girlfriend either.

It's funny that you even consider him having a girlfriend. You are talking about creature (he's more creature than human to me) who was contacting his mother via e-mail while they were living in the same house.

James411 wrote:

I am not sure If Adam Lanza ever had a girlfriend either.

>adam lanza
>girlfriend

g0y wut

In his Life leading up to the shooting he was suffering from extreme Psychosis and had many delusions and discrepancies in his mind and behaviour. He started to have delusions that he was A messianic vigilante like Hero (Ax Ishmael) who was going to Commit the massacre in order to trigger the "weak and defenseless" people to stand up for themselves and start a violent revolution against Society which can be inferred from his manifesto. He also emulated himself after The Punisher and even had a poster of him in his dorm and copied his poses.

Again he refrences Himself being a Messianic like figure by comparing himself to Jesus Christ and saying that he will sacrifice himself for the "weak and defenseless" like Jesus did on the Cross.

He was under the control of Psychosis caused by years of isolation and his pre psychosis disorders

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