E&D called Becca Heins a "devil child"

... in 8th grade. Just one of these tiny details.

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Overall interesting article. Cool little tidbits from Heins and Oglesbee.

I agree with Terra Oglesbee about Eric being hot. Oh, to have her seat in the class. In front of Eric and next to Dylan. I don't know how I'd get anything done, other than creatively writing notes to them and creatively imagining doing things with them. "Dear Dylan, you're beyond handsome. I could wax poetic about everything I like about you for paragraphs, but I just want to get to the point. I've had a crush on you for MONTHS. Meet me after school?"

Sabratha wrote:

... in 8th grade. Just one of these tiny details.

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Overall interesting article. Cool little tidbits from Heins and Oglesbee.

and she called harris hot

WendlaBergman wrote:

I agree with Terra Oglesbee about Eric being hot. Oh, to have her seat in the class. In front of Eric and next to Dylan. I don't know how I'd get anything done, other than creatively writing notes to them and creatively imagining doing things with them. "Dear Dylan, you're beyond handsome. I could wax poetic about everything I like about you for paragraphs, but I just want to get to the point. I've had a crush on you for MONTHS. Meet me after school?"

R.I.P this forum.

It seems it is now becoming another Tumblr with people instead of researching about the case are going on, and on about obsessing over the boys, and how hot they look, and whatever. Where the hell did the real researchers run off too?

lol wrote:

WendlaBergman wrote:

I agree with Terra Oglesbee about Eric being hot. Oh, to have her seat in the class. In front of Eric and next to Dylan. I don't know how I'd get anything done, other than creatively writing notes to them and creatively imagining doing things with them. "Dear Dylan, you're beyond handsome. I could wax poetic about everything I like about you for paragraphs, but I just want to get to the point. I've had a crush on you for MONTHS. Meet me after school?"

R.I.P this forum.

It seems it is now becoming another Tumblr with people instead of researching about the case are going on, and on about obsessing over the boys, and how hot and they look, and whatever. Where the hell did the real researchers run off too?

Don't be a spoilsport. New peopel come here and taht's fine with me, even if I disagree with some of their opinions. Gustopoet case in point

lol wrote:

WendlaBergman wrote:

I agree with Terra Oglesbee about Eric being hot. Oh, to have her seat in the class. In front of Eric and next to Dylan. I don't know how I'd get anything done, other than creatively writing notes to them and creatively imagining doing things with them. "Dear Dylan, you're beyond handsome. I could wax poetic about everything I like about you for paragraphs, but I just want to get to the point. I've had a crush on you for MONTHS. Meet me after school?"

R.I.P this forum.

It seems it is now becoming another Tumblr with people instead of researching about the case are going on, and on about obsessing over the boys, and how hot they look, and whatever. Where the hell did the real researchers run off too?

Um, I DO research about the case, f*ck you very much. I'm ALLOWED to occasionally express an attraction.

lol wrote:

WendlaBergman wrote:

I agree with Terra Oglesbee about Eric being hot. Oh, to have her seat in the class. In front of Eric and next to Dylan. I don't know how I'd get anything done, other than creatively writing notes to them and creatively imagining doing things with them. "Dear Dylan, you're beyond handsome. I could wax poetic about everything I like about you for paragraphs, but I just want to get to the point. I've had a crush on you for MONTHS. Meet me after school?"

R.I.P this forum.

It seems it is now becoming another Tumblr with people instead of researching about the case are going on, and on about obsessing over the boys, and how hot they look, and whatever. Where the hell did the real researchers run off too?

This forum is by no means turning into anything that even closely resembles that free for all over on Tumblr. And honestly, I take that as an insult towards me, my forum, the members who have contributed tons of valuable posts and the other 4 staff members that work very hard to keep this forum a well respected place where ALL people from the Columbine community can come together and discuss the case.

And it's getting very tiring having you jump into conversations just to pick on something that a 'fan' has said. And it is also tiring repeatedly having to tell you that everyone is welcome here on the forum whether they are a 'fan' or not. And finally, the fans are not the ones even causing any problems. You are by constantly hounding them for the posts they make. If anything, you're acting just like people over on Danny's forum who constantly tried to force people away when they didn't have the same opinion as them.

This is the last time I'm gonna say it. Everyone is welcome here. Fan or not. And if all you have to say is rude and negative comments, then don't say anything at all. I've brought this to your attention many times. I get the feeling you just ignore what I am saying though.

lol wrote:

WendlaBergman wrote:

I agree with Terra Oglesbee about Eric being hot. Oh, to have her seat in the class. In front of Eric and next to Dylan. I don't know how I'd get anything done, other than creatively writing notes to them and creatively imagining doing things with them. "Dear Dylan, you're beyond handsome. I could wax poetic about everything I like about you for paragraphs, but I just want to get to the point. I've had a crush on you for MONTHS. Meet me after school?"

R.I.P this forum.

It seems it is now becoming another Tumblr with people instead of researching about the case are going on, and on about obsessing over the boys, and how hot they look, and whatever. Where the hell did the real researchers run off too?

I don't think it's like Tumblr but I take your point about the 'fans' ramming it down people's throats at any given opportunity.

Jenn wrote:

lol wrote:

WendlaBergman wrote:

I agree with Terra Oglesbee about Eric being hot. Oh, to have her seat in the class. In front of Eric and next to Dylan. I don't know how I'd get anything done, other than creatively writing notes to them and creatively imagining doing things with them. "Dear Dylan, you're beyond handsome. I could wax poetic about everything I like about you for paragraphs, but I just want to get to the point. I've had a crush on you for MONTHS. Meet me after school?"

R.I.P this forum.

It seems it is now becoming another Tumblr with people instead of researching about the case are going on, and on about obsessing over the boys, and how hot they look, and whatever. Where the hell did the real researchers run off too?

This forum is by no means turning into anything that even closely resembles that free for all over on Tumblr. And honestly, I take that as an insult towards me, my forum, the members who have contributed tons of valuable posts and the other 4 staff members that work very hard to keep this forum a well respected place where ALL people from the Columbine community can come together and discuss the case.

And it's getting very tiring having you jump into conversations just to pick on something that a 'fan' has said. And it is also tiring repeatedly having to tell you that everyone is welcome here on the forum whether they are a 'fan' or not. And finally, the fans are not the ones even causing any problems. You are by constantly hounding them for the posts they make. If anything, you're acting just like people over on Danny's forum who constantly tried to force people away when they didn't have the same opinion as them.

This is the last time I'm gonna say it. Everyone is welcome here. Fan or not. And if all you have to say is rude and negative comments, then don't say anything at all. I've brought this to your attention many times. I get the feeling you just ignore what I am saying though.

I agree with Jen. We're all drawn to the Columbine shooting for one reason or another. Speaking as a person who hides his forum email notifications from his family, I can identify with folks who have interests outside the norm. This isn't a place to persecute others. If the fanboy/fangirl thing got to be too big of a deal, I sure the mods would deal with it.

WendlaBergman has enough relevant posts here to express a personal opinion or two : )

"Klebold and Harris made a video for a government and economics class in which they showed themselves as hit men, a protection ring of sorts, who could be hired out to wreak justice on jocks who picked on other students. The video was violent and ended with the two bludgeoning the head of a dummy amid much fake blood."

that's something we'd like to see.

Whoa O.o


And to think there were no warning signs...

CharlesWhitman wrote:

"Klebold and Harris made a video for a government and economics class in which they showed themselves as hit men, a protection ring of sorts, who could be hired out to wreak justice on jocks who picked on other students. The video was violent and ended with the two bludgeoning the head of a dummy amid much fake blood."

that's something we'd like to see.

That sounds like Hitmen for Hire, although E&D didn't whack a dummy in HfH.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],
Thank you for your comments.I think they were fair to all.
Even though there are only 4 or 5 of us here that openly identify as Columbiners, I do feel that we contribute quite a bit to the board, and to helping keeping the conversation going.
Despite the personal dislike that some people may have for me or any other Columbiner here, I think there is plenty of room on the board for both sides.

I think everyone can contribute. I don't identify as a Columbiner, but I can relate to the possible backlash for being interested in this.

WendlaBergman wrote:

lol wrote:

WendlaBergman wrote:

I agree with Terra Oglesbee about Eric being hot. Oh, to have her seat in the class. In front of Eric and next to Dylan. I don't know how I'd get anything done, other than creatively writing notes to them and creatively imagining doing things with them. "Dear Dylan, you're beyond handsome. I could wax poetic about everything I like about you for paragraphs, but I just want to get to the point. I've had a crush on you for MONTHS. Meet me after school?"

R.I.P this forum.

It seems it is now becoming another Tumblr with people instead of researching about the case are going on, and on about obsessing over the boys, and how hot they look, and whatever. Where the hell did the real researchers run off too?

Um, I DO research about the case, f*ck you very much. I'm ALLOWED to occasionally express an attraction.

Fuck me?

Fuck you too then.

Jenn wrote:

lol wrote:

WendlaBergman wrote:

I agree with Terra Oglesbee about Eric being hot. Oh, to have her seat in the class. In front of Eric and next to Dylan. I don't know how I'd get anything done, other than creatively writing notes to them and creatively imagining doing things with them. "Dear Dylan, you're beyond handsome. I could wax poetic about everything I like about you for paragraphs, but I just want to get to the point. I've had a crush on you for MONTHS. Meet me after school?"

R.I.P this forum.

It seems it is now becoming another Tumblr with people instead of researching about the case are going on, and on about obsessing over the boys, and how hot they look, and whatever. Where the hell did the real researchers run off too?

This forum is by no means turning into anything that even closely resembles that free for all over on Tumblr. And honestly, I take that as an insult towards me, my forum, the members who have contributed tons of valuable posts and the other 4 staff members that work very hard to keep this forum a well respected place where ALL people from the Columbine community can come together and discuss the case.

And it's getting very tiring having you jump into conversations just to pick on something that a 'fan' has said. And it is also tiring repeatedly having to tell you that everyone is welcome here on the forum whether they are a 'fan' or not. And finally, the fans are not the ones even causing any problems. You are by constantly hounding them for the posts they make. If anything, you're acting just like people over on Danny's forum who constantly tried to force people away when they didn't have the same opinion as them.

This is the last time I'm gonna say it. Everyone is welcome here. Fan or not. And if all you have to say is rude and negative comments, then don't say anything at all. I've brought this to your attention many times. I get the feeling you just ignore what I am saying though.

I'm aware of what you stated to me, and I will stand by with what I said before. Some people who are fan boys and fan girls of these two douche bags should have no right to be in forums for researchers. Posting nonsensical stuff such as "Eric is cute", or whatever. Post that crap somewhere else (Tumblr is full of them). I've been on the Columbine boards for years, and you know damn well what a mess some of the old forums turned out to be BECAUSE of people like this. It's one thing to have a ridiculous "Rebiscool" username, but when you have a custom made shirt on that was worn from a mass murderer who killed innocent kids, and you post it as your profile picture is disgusting, and distasteful. It is a shame that you let some of these people on this forum with this filth. It is ridiculous, and if you want to ban me, then go right ahead, but this is getting to be tiring some, and it won't solve any problems in the near by future for those who are truly interested in Columbine, only to be hounded and hassled and find ridiculous threads from fan boys/fan girls, or those who already share the same dislike regarding this such as myself.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],
I totally agree that anyone here is capable of contributing and many people do.
I made the specific point about Columbiners contributing to illustrate that we do bring forth something worthwhile to the table, no matter how some people here feel about us otherwise.

PaintItBlack wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],
I totally agree that anyone here is capable of contributing and many people do.
I made the specific point about Columbiners contributing to illustrate that we do bring forth something worthwhile to the table, no matter how  some people here feel about us otherwise.

Do whatever you have to do, but wearing a custom made shirt from a mass murderer who killed innocent kids is just disgusting. And then it adds insult to injury by posting it as your profile picture.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - Telling other people to 'fuck themselves' is definitely against the rules here and I did not notice that the first time I read this thread or I would have mentioned it in my last post. Also, about your avatar, even though it doesn't show your face, the rules state 'no personal photographs' of yourself whatsoever and that includes body shots, so I will be removing the avatar. Please refrain from using any photos of yourself as an avatar. This has been a rule since the forums creation nearly 3 years ago.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], I am not banning you. That wasn't a threat for a ban. I understand that you don't like fans and that is your right to have that opinion but I am not going to change the rules to make it so fans cannot post here. That is just ridiculous. And there have been times when fans have crossed the line in the things they were saying. They were warned, the content was removed and we all moved on. But someone stating they found the boys attractive is hardly a reason to throw people off of the forum. If you don't like those comments. Ignore them. It is as simple as that and I can assure you that this forum will NEVER turn into a site like Tumblr.

And the members you're complaining about have all made many posts that were true contributions to the forum, not just fanish dribble and you know that.

I have 3 moderators and another administrator who constantly monitor this forum to make sure it stays a place where everyone can feel welcome, who make sure that the posts are all within the rules and to make sure people don't post things that cross the line.

And I am not 'hounding' you. I'm letting you know, again, that I am NOT going to be changing the rules to make it so fans cannot post. Anyone who follows the rules is welcome here. And this forum is by far the best Columbine forum there has ever been. I've been told this many times over and again, I take it as insult that you're implying I would ever let it turn into a place like Tumblr or Danny's forum.

I'm not banning you nor do I even want you to leave the forum but if you're so unhappy and disappointed with the way things are here, you're free to leave at anytime.

radaddio wrote:

Whoa O.o


And to think there were no warning signs...

If you watch the actual hitmen for hire movie, you will see its not serious. Actually its very far from serious - people act with deliberately squeaky voices, "overly-dramatic" poses, Dylan makes a "threat" about coughing up dandruff... Its all very goofy. Without 4/20 hindsight, the most worrying aspect is some of the language used.

People made over the top and intentionally funny or absurd videos for that class and the film class. One of the girls mentioned she and her group made a vid for that class that was about some sex stuff (business as a pimp etc?), it wasn't serious and nobody took it seriously either. Same with E&D.

Jenn wrote:

I would ever let it turn into a place like Tumblr or Danny's forum.

The original Danny's forum was not bad imho, frankly it had pretty much the same feel as this one. Only real difference I see was some occassional trolls interfering, as Danny was soft on the ban-hammer.

Just my 0.02$

Sabratha wrote:

radaddio wrote:

Whoa O.o


And to think there were no warning signs...

If you watch the actual hitmen for hire movie, you will see its not serious. Actually its very far from serious - people act with deliberately squeaky voices, "overly-dramatic" poses, Dylan makes a "threat" about coughing up dandruff... Its all very goofy. Without 4/20 hindsight, the most worrying aspect is some of the language used.

People made over the top and intentionally funny or absurd videos for that class and the film class. One of the girls mentioned she and her group made a vid for that class that was about some sex stuff (business as a pimp etc?), it wasn't serious and nobody took it seriously either. Same with E&D.

I agree that example was just normal teen humor. However, it becomes just one brushstroke in a very morbid painting when you add in the pipe bombs, vandalism, robbery, murder threats, weapons research, searching for loopholes in gun control legislation, and manipulating a friend into buying guns for you.

I can see why Judy Brown freaked out when she saw Eric Harris buying a gun magazine at the market.

Oh and if you want faces to go with the people who made the statements in the article, yearbook photos:

Domonic Duran: (AFAIK has nopthing to do with Philip Duran, its a common surname in the area it seems)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Becca Heins:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Terra Oglesbee:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

She looks nice to me, but I don't think Dylan would have found her "hot" in return. People don't often mention Harris making racist comments in public, but Klebold was known for these.

Nice find Sabratha!

I remember having a pierced eyebrow : ) Ahh, the 90's...

I think Dylan would have still found Terra attractive. Casual racism used to be a more common thing, and usually didn't indicate anything besides trying to "go with the flow" He struck me as the more open minded of the two TBH

Everyone used to use the F** word a lot too, but it rarely meant anything out side of a universal insult.

radaddio wrote:

I think Dylan would have still found Terra attractive. Casual racism used to be a more common thing, and usually didn't indicate anything besides trying to "go with the flow" He struck me as the more open minded of the two TBH

I had a similar impression of Dylan at first (he's less hatefull in the journals etc), but changed my opinion.

Firts of all, few people in thge 11k mention Eric being racist in public, other than the whole group making jokes and nazi salutes at bowling. People do mention Dylan being openly racist when it came to black people and making racist comments openly in the CHS hallways in discussion with other students. Also its he who first shot Shels, then called him the N-word repeatedly and then even called to Eric to come see.

Eric at frist on his website had a rant how (among all the other things he hates) he hates racists:

Harris wrote:

YOU KNOW WHAT I HATE!!

---RACISM!!Anyone who belives that blacks, asians, mexicans, or people from any other country or race besides white-american....people who think that should be drug out into the street, have their arms ripped off, be burnt suht at the stumps, then have every person of the race that YOU hate come out and beat the shit out of you. and if you are female, then you should be raped by a male from the race you hate and be forced to raise the child! You people are the scum of society and arent worth a damn piece of worm shit. You all are trash. And dont let me catch you making fun of someone just because they are a different color because i will come in and break your fucking legs with a plastic spoon. i dont care how long it takes! and thats both legs mind you.

Then in may 1998 he wrote in his journal:

Harris wrote:

Blacks ARE different, like it or not they are. they started on the bottom so why not keep em there.

Dylan seems to have been racist all the time. In Eric's case I see a clear transition from an anti-racist to a racist position. Frankly, I suspect he's adopting Dylan's views here. Devon mentioned how Eric would adopt various things from Dylan.

Then again, they didn't seem to act racist in the face of black students vefore the shooting:

Oglesbee wrote:

Oglesbee, who is black, said neither Harris nor Klebold showed signs of being racist, an element that came into focus during the shootings, when one of the gunmen reportedly used a racial epithet before shooting a black student in the face.

also fun fact: The article describes her as black. In Poland people probably wouldn't call her black, but brown or mulatto. Shge doesn't look fully african in the photo at all.

Wow, that paints a very different picture of Dylan than I was thinking. Also, it's odd to see Harris start out as violently anti racist, and then change to Dylan's perspective.

Race is always a touchy subject, especially right now in the USA. It seems that everyone in the more conservative parts of the United States has a tendency to be prejudiced in one way or another. Going from that, it seems easy to see Eric and Dylan in a way that just had them going along with the common theme of hating minorities yet not really caring one way or the other.

Also, didn't Dylan have a run in with Isiah Shoels shortly before the shooting? It makes me wonder if that incident may have stemmed from Dylan's prejudices. As I recall, Isiah also had problems with hate speech while he was involved in sports at Columbine.

radaddio wrote:

Also, didn't Dylan have a run in with Isiah Shoels shortly before the shooting? It makes me wonder if that incident may have stemmed from Dylan's prejudices. As I recall, Isiah also had problems with hate speech while he was involved in sports at Columbine.

I heard a lot of people online mention this, but have not seen any actual witness account to taht extent. Granted, it might be buried somewehre deep in the 11k, but so far I'm ratehr skeptical of this.
I know there was a black student hanging around with the jocks group, but that was not Isaiah - that person had already graduated in 1998. And yes, Shoels actually decided not to be in CHS sports team, because people were rude and racist to him. Matt Kechter also left the team for alledgedly similar reasons - he didn't like the atmosphere and the way people behaved and talked.

There was a brief mention of is in Dave Cullen's book as well. IDK how much validity I would give it in the way of being factual though. He did stretch the truth on some things.

radaddio wrote:

There was a brief mention of is in Dave Cullen's book as well. IDK how much validity I would give it in the way of being factual though. He did stretch the truth on some things.

Its probably because I messed up, it was Corey Depooter who quit the team because he didn't like the atmosphere, not Matt Kechter. Sorry for the error.

"Corey was 17 years old, and a junior. He loved to golf, hunt and fish, and he liked in-line skating. He also used to be a wrestler, but he quit the wrestling team after his sophomore year to focus on the academics. He recently got a maintenance job at a golf club to save up for a fishing boat with a friend. He was a good student, and when he had wis wisdom teeth removed this year, he was frustrated because it forced him to miss school."
Source: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Corey DePooter -17, a junior. . . . Quit the wrestling team for a maintenance job at the Raccoon Creek Country Club in Littleton so he could earn money for a fishing boat. . . . Also liked to go hunting. . . . Planned to drive to Oklahoma over Easter vacation, but a snowstorm stopped him at a Holiday Inn in Kansas.

Source: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


Mike Vendegnia was friends with with Eric and Corey Depooter. He mentioned in an interview (to press not 11k) taht Corey quit the team because he didn't like the atmosphere there. I can't find this article now though, just some other articles quoting just one or two statements from that interview.

See, this is the shit that pisses me off about people who see another side of him.

Racist, murdering scum.

You can read Mein Kampf and pick out parts that make Hitler look misunderstood.

Radioactive_Clothing wrote:

See, this is the shit that pisses me off about people who see another side of him.

Racist, murdering scum.

You can read Mein Kampf and pick out parts that make Hitler look misunderstood.

Did you know people are not one dimensional, because we aren't characters in a poorly-written book? :O SHOCKING NEWS OF THE CENTURY!

NOBODY is condoning what he did. I sure as hell won't condone what Hitler did because he killed millions of people, obviously. He's a little different than a nutty mentally ill teenager who threw away potential.

Way to follow Godwin's Law though! A+. Great job. You get a gold star!

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],
I don't care for the word nutty but I greatly agree with you and I thank you for the post above.

I don't take E &D's racism very seriously because I don't know how racist they truly were in actuality.
They would say racist things in their journals, then backtrack .They were very friendly with people like Terra and I think it was Meg Hains from the TCM who was Hispanic.
Devon Adams pointed out that a lot of their favorite movies by Tarantino used racist terms and I think some of that racial posturing may have come from that too.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],
I hate to be a stickler but racism exists everywhere not only among people in conservative parts of the US.

Eric and Dylan were not racist people with confederate flags on their walls going to rallies who fight for America to become a pure race country, they just hated everyone, they were finding any reason to single out people on that day, even a guy with glasses on, Dylan wore thick spectacles months prior, they were just looking for anything to mock people for as it was their day to turn the tables around.

I mean you could say Eric hated visually impaired people because he shot Daniel in the hand for wearing glasses.

They just hated everyone, they said so in their personal writings about hating everyone, and a bomb planting isn't a weapon you'd use in a spree that was about specific targets, victims of bombs are merely statistics.

They shot Daniel Mauser mostly because he was there and because by most accounts he tried to jump Dylan or push a chair against him. Not saying he wouldn't have been shot eitehr way if he stayed put and meek, but wearing glassess was certainly not the reason why he was shot.

I do think at leats Dylan was a bti racist, he killed a lot of people shooting at them and not saying much or even shot under a table without relaly taking a look who is shot. With Isaiah he not only spent some time taounting him using racil terms, but he even called Eric specifically to come see it. Perhaps it was random, but I think if anyone was singled out during the whole shooting, it was Isaiah more than anyone else.

Having said that, racism was certainly not the reason behind the attack - vast majority of the kids killed were white and the bomb plot was obviously not race-specific. They hated everyone and the attack was intended to target everyone. Kids like Mike Savage were spared, but this occured only because they happened to be known to Dylan and the bombds didn't explode.
Dylan didn't care enough for Savage or other of his friends to warn them before the attack. Mike would likley have died or be wounded if the bomb went off.

John?

PaintItBlack wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],
I hate to be a stickler but racism exists everywhere not only among people in conservative parts of the US.

Oh, I agree. It tends to be a little worse in places that claim to not have a problem with it. What I was trying to state was that they may not have been any more more less racist than the general population.

Then, Sabratha's post regarding Eric and Dylan's views really opened my eyes. Given Dylan's more liberal upbringing, I was under the impression he was the more tolerant of the two. It turned out to be the opposite.

radaddio wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],
I hate to be a stickler but racism exists everywhere not only among people in conservative parts of the US.

Oh, I agree. It tends to be a little worse in places that claim to not have a problem with it. What I was trying to state was that they may not have been any more more less racist than the general population.

Then, Sabratha's post regarding Eric and Dylan's views really opened my eyes. Given Dylan's more liberal upbringing, I was under the impression he was the more tolerant of the two. It turned out to be the opposite.

Another super old post but I've seen some of these comments discussed on other posts. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact Dylan was born and raised in Littleton. It's a very white very conservative very suburban area. It's definitely not backwood white trash it's very neat and proper or so it strives to be. I'm half Native half white, my mom and half siblings are all white, so I definitely experienced Littleton differently than them.

Even by the time I graduated in 2010, you'd hear kids quote rap lyrics with the n word thinking it's okay but not thinking that they're racist. Or if there were racist attitudes expressed, let's say with politics and welfare, there'd be always a "Oh not all ____ are like that." With some kicker about how they're colorblind and there's good people and bad people of all colors. Since I had moved to live with my 100% Native father and his family in a very poor, 100% Native area for the end of elementary and middle school and came back to LIttleton in high school I think I was more aware of it. One of my good friends was a couple years younger and Filipino and hadn't lived anywhere but Littleton and when I would try to talk to her about it, she didn't see it like me. She was student body president and super popular and during high school she said she never had experienced racism. Now I've noticed her and one Latino friend who were both at Columbine with me are far more aware of how sinister and indirect racism can be.

I don't know if I'm explaining this well and I'm in no way trying to rationalize or defend Dylan's attitude compared to Eric's who had lived in other parts of the country. The way race is discussed and experienced in Littleton is weird. I guarantee almost everyone there in 99 and in 2010 when I graduated and now would say they're not racist. But being white in a white area like that they don't get it. A lot of them would probably say they've experienced reverse racism or that they don't see race, not realizing that those attitudes have racial implications as well.

Good thing I've got no idea who these people are.

milennialrebelette wrote:

radaddio wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],
I hate to be a stickler but racism exists everywhere not only among people in conservative parts of the US.

Oh, I agree. It tends to be a little worse in places that claim to not have a problem with it. What I was trying to state was that they may not have been any more more less racist than the general population.

Then, Sabratha's post regarding Eric and Dylan's views really opened my eyes. Given Dylan's more liberal upbringing, I was under the impression he was the more tolerant of the two. It turned out to be the opposite.

Another super old post but I've seen some of these comments discussed on other posts. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact Dylan was born and raised in Littleton. It's a very white very conservative very suburban area. It's definitely not backwood white trash it's very neat and proper or so it strives to be. I'm half Native half white, my mom and half siblings are all white, so I definitely experienced Littleton differently than them.

Even by the time I graduated in 2010, you'd hear kids quote rap lyrics with the n word thinking it's okay but not thinking that they're racist. Or if there were racist attitudes expressed, let's say with politics and welfare, there'd be always a "Oh not all ____ are like that." With some kicker about how they're colorblind and there's good people and bad people of all colors. Since I had moved to live with my 100% Native father and his family in a very poor, 100% Native area  for the end of elementary and middle school and came back to LIttleton in high school I think I was more aware of it. One of my good friends was a couple years younger and Filipino and hadn't lived anywhere but Littleton and when I would try to talk to her about it, she didn't see it like me. She was student body president and super popular and during high school she said she never had experienced racism. Now I've noticed her and one Latino friend who were both at Columbine with me are far more aware of how sinister and indirect racism can be.

I don't know if I'm explaining this well and I'm in no way trying to rationalize or defend Dylan's attitude compared to Eric's who had lived in other parts of the country. The way race is discussed and experienced in Littleton is weird. I guarantee almost everyone there in 99 and in 2010 when I graduated and now would say they're not racist. But being white in a white area like that they don't get it. A lot of them would probably say they've experienced reverse racism or that they don't see race, not realizing that those attitudes have racial implications as well.

Just because Eric moved around doesn't justify his racist attitude. He didn't pick that up anywhere but his own deluded mind.

Ivan wrote:

milennialrebelette wrote:

radaddio wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],
I hate to be a stickler but racism exists everywhere not only among people in conservative parts of the US.

Oh, I agree. It tends to be a little worse in places that claim to not have a problem with it. What I was trying to state was that they may not have been any more more less racist than the general population.

Then, Sabratha's post regarding Eric and Dylan's views really opened my eyes. Given Dylan's more liberal upbringing, I was under the impression he was the more tolerant of the two. It turned out to be the opposite.

Another super old post but I've seen some of these comments discussed on other posts. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact Dylan was born and raised in Littleton. It's a very white very conservative very suburban area. It's definitely not backwood white trash it's very neat and proper or so it strives to be. I'm half Native half white, my mom and half siblings are all white, so I definitely experienced Littleton differently than them.

Even by the time I graduated in 2010, you'd hear kids quote rap lyrics with the n word thinking it's okay but not thinking that they're racist. Or if there were racist attitudes expressed, let's say with politics and welfare, there'd be always a "Oh not all ____ are like that." With some kicker about how they're colorblind and there's good people and bad people of all colors. Since I had moved to live with my 100% Native father and his family in a very poor, 100% Native area  for the end of elementary and middle school and came back to LIttleton in high school I think I was more aware of it. One of my good friends was a couple years younger and Filipino and hadn't lived anywhere but Littleton and when I would try to talk to her about it, she didn't see it like me. She was student body president and super popular and during high school she said she never had experienced racism. Now I've noticed her and one Latino friend who were both at Columbine with me are far more aware of how sinister and indirect racism can be.

I don't know if I'm explaining this well and I'm in no way trying to rationalize or defend Dylan's attitude compared to Eric's who had lived in other parts of the country. The way race is discussed and experienced in Littleton is weird. I guarantee almost everyone there in 99 and in 2010 when I graduated and now would say they're not racist. But being white in a white area like that they don't get it. A lot of them would probably say they've experienced reverse racism or that they don't see race, not realizing that those attitudes have racial implications as well.

Just because Eric moved around doesn't justify his racist attitude. He didn't pick that up anywhere but his own deluded mind.

Hey [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] sorry if I wasn't clear in my ramblings. I was just sharing some context to Dylan's "racism" and view on racial issues, coming from the Littleton area. As far as Eric goes, I was trying to say that at least at the start of his writings, he wasn't as "racist" as Dylan possibly because he had moved around so much and had more experiences with different kinds of people outside the Littleton area. The opposite of what you responded about.

Of course as his racist attitudes continued that changed but I can't really offer any context to that. Just saying that Dylan's view on race is in line with a lot of what i experienced as a mixed race individual growing up there and graduating from Columbine myself. Not trying to excuse or justify any of it, just sharing about the community and how at least with Dylan before the stuff he said at the shooting.

Hope that's clearer and makes more sense!