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 A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses

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Screamingophelia
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PostSubject: Re: A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses   A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Aug 27, 2017 10:32 pm

I'm on chapter 7, I just downloaded the audio book. I just started looking into Columbine again after a good 10 years of not by Sue Klebold today. I'm not sure what I believe right now. regarding Eric I mentioned before in reading anything. I know it doesn't add much, but you guys have interesting perspectives. I don't buy the whole Eric was an evil mastermind and Dylan was hapless and followed him. I think they fed off of each other.

It is interesting, I had an older brother constantly in trouble and I was the "good" kid no one had to worry about. I was also the depressed one filled with a ton of anger. I didn't have a group of friends in school but I tried my best to be kind and polite to everyone. It surprised my parents after Columbine when I told them how my heart went out to them and I knew how they felt. Their petite little daughter who took ballet class and got straight A's was telling them she had so much anger inside her she could explode at any minute. No one took me seriously.

Also who didn't walk the stage at graduation?

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PostSubject: Re: A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses   A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Feb 01, 2018 10:56 am

I downloaded the audiobook from our library to listen to during work. I am usually a fan of unabridged works, but so far I wish this was about half as long. I think a lot of it is the detailed / flowery, though not always illuminating for me, language. I find myself wanting to fast forward or wonder if I am tuning out at times and missing out on something.

I recently got though a section on letters received and one from a Cindy who was called Flipper, bullied, and raped. Was Cindy the same age as Dylan? Sue said the families knew each other well; were they from the same area / schools?
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PostSubject: Re: A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses   A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Feb 01, 2018 5:05 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I recently got though a section on letters received and one from a Cindy who was called Flipper, bullied, and raped.  Was Cindy the same age as Dylan?  Sue said the families knew each other well; were they from the same area / schools?
Cindy was around Dylan's parents' age and their kids were around the same age (Sue said that their kids had celebrated birthdays together).

Sue Kebold wrote:
It came from Cindy Worth, a woman of about our age. Tom had known her family growing up, and had stayed in touch with them through the years. We both admired the Worths; they were successful and happy, pillars of their church —good people—and I was always struck by how loving and close they were to one another.
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PostSubject: Re: A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses   A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Feb 01, 2018 5:14 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I recently got though a section on letters received and one from a Cindy who was called Flipper, bullied, and raped.  Was Cindy the same age as Dylan?  Sue said the families knew each other well; were they from the same area / schools?
Cindy was around Dylan's parents' age and their kids were around the same age (Sue said that their kids had celebrated birthdays together).

Sue Kebold wrote:
It came from Cindy Worth, a woman of about our age. Tom had known her family growing up, and had stayed in touch with them through the years. We both admired the Worths; they were successful and happy, pillars of their church —good people—and I was always struck by how loving and close they were to one another.

Thanks. That flew right past me on my initial listen. I thought it was someone older, but somehow I got mixed up when she talked about the kids birthdays...makes more sense now.
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PostSubject: Re: A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses   A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Apr 18, 2018 11:49 pm

I just recently finished reading this book. (I know, I know, I'm two years late!) First of all, my heart goes out to Sue Klebold. I've always felt so horrible for the parents of Dylan and Eric. I just can't imagine what they must have gone through; still go through. The anniversary is coming up and that must always be a tough day for them. To have your child kill himself at such a young age has to be terrible for any parent, but then also dealing with the fact that your child also MURDERED people and you have to live with that. I think she was very brave for telling her story and I applaud her for doing so. It was very eye-opening and I think if Dylan could have read the book, while embarrassed, I think he would have been touched by how much he really was loved by this mother. (Though, if he were alive, the book wouldn't have existed, so it's kind of a moot point).

The part that struck me the most is when she talks about renting the film "Seven Samurai" after Dylan had heard about it in a class and was interested in seeing it. She states this at being the end of February 1999, so it's one of her last memories with her son. With good reason, she was worried that he may not like a black and white sub-titled movie from the 1950s, but he really got into it. I can totally relate to this: I am a huge movie buff (though I have never seen "Seven Samurai", now I need to check it out!) and I know the feeling of watching a great movie for the first time and really getting into it or showing a movie I really love to my parents or a friend. I loved that after the movie ended, Sue, Dylan, and her husband stayed up late talking about the film. This reminded me when I was in college in 2000 and saw "The Sixth Sense" (I saw the re-release because I was too scared to see it when it was originally released in the summer of '99!) and when my mom picked me up to drive me back home for spring break, we had spent the four hour drive talking about it as she had also recently seen it. While I was reading this, I was thinking, didn't Dylan want to see what other great movies were out there for him to watch?

What did everyone think of the part where she asks Dylan about the senior prank when he mentions it to her and he just smiled and said he didn't want to tell her. Was he talking about NBK?? Was this the closest he got to mentioning it to somebody? It just seemed very odd.

The part after the prom where he shows his mom the flask is very weird and I don't blame Sue for wondering what the point of it was. If he had never shown her the flask, she would have never known. Did he want to be seen as a good son before he committed murder? It's just very vexing.

How much would you love to be a fly on the wall at the steakhouse the night before the massacre where Eric and Dylan had their last meal (well, maybe they had breakfast, but you know what I mean?) I'm sure they weren't discussing NBK in public, unless they were speaking in code, but it would be fascinating to know what they were discussing. I guess we'll never know.

So many thoughts on this book! I'm sure I'll think of more later!
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PostSubject: Re: A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses   A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Apr 19, 2018 12:27 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I just recently finished reading this book. (I know, I know, I'm two years late!) First of all, my heart goes out to Sue Klebold. I've always felt so horrible for the parents of Dylan and Eric. I just can't imagine what they must have gone through; still go through. The anniversary is coming up and that must always be a tough day for them. To have your child kill himself at such a young age has to be terrible for any parent, but then also dealing with the fact that your child also MURDERED people and you have to live with that. I think she was very brave for telling her story and I applaud her for doing so. It was very eye-opening and I think if Dylan could have read the book, while embarrassed, I think he would have been touched by how much he really was loved by this mother. (Though, if he were alive, the book wouldn't have existed, so it's kind of a moot point).

The part that struck me the most is when she talks about renting the film "Seven Samurai" after Dylan had heard about it in a class and was interested in seeing it. She states this at being the end of February 1999, so it's one of her last memories with her son. With good reason, she was worried that he may not like a black and white sub-titled movie from the 1950s, but he really got into it. I can totally relate to this: I am a huge movie buff (though I have never seen "Seven Samurai", now I need to check it out!) and I know the feeling of watching a great movie for the first time and really getting into it or showing a movie I really love to my parents or a friend. I loved that after the movie ended, Sue, Dylan, and her husband stayed up late talking about the film. This reminded me when I was in college in 2000 and saw "The Sixth Sense" (I saw the re-release because I was too scared to see it when it was originally released in the summer of '99!) and when my mom picked me up to drive me back home for spring break, we had spent the four hour drive talking about it as she had also recently seen it. While I was reading this, I was thinking, didn't Dylan want to see what other great movies were out there for him to watch?

What did everyone think of the part where she asks Dylan about the senior prank when he mentions it to her and he just smiled and said he didn't want to tell her. Was he talking about NBK?? Was this the closest he got to mentioning it to somebody? It just seemed very odd.

The part after the prom where he shows his mom the flask is very weird and I don't blame Sue for wondering what the point of it was. If he had never shown her the flask, she would have never known. Did he want to be seen as a good son before he committed murder? It's just very vexing.

How much would you love to be a fly on the wall at the steakhouse the night before the massacre where Eric and Dylan had their last meal (well, maybe they had breakfast, but you know what I mean?) I'm sure they weren't discussing NBK in public, unless they were speaking in code, but it would be fascinating to know what they were discussing. I guess we'll never know.

So many thoughts on this book! I'm sure I'll think of more later!

My first thought and I will answer seriously in a second but [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Potatoes, did they go to breakfast?? Maybe they went to Outback of course the night before and Dylan had the damn potatoes in the morning with Eric... I'm done.

I would love to be a fly on the wall or lint on the shirt of E and D for a year before even the night before. Did they have doubts...

I also wonder how Dylan would feel about the book, I assume embarrassed maybe like "great my mom loves me... but no one else did"

I think the senior prank line was talking about NBK. I go back and forth on the flask thing and why Dylan told her but I always thought he was hinting at NBK. I think prom night was about Dylan giving his friends good memories of him so Devon, Robyn and his mom etc.. had nice memories. So I think the flask thing was showing Sue she was a good mom and that if Dylan wasn't so fucked up he could have made her proud.

I think Dylan would have loved Kill Bill, but depression and mental illness are beasts and Dylan got to the point of no return at some point and nothing was going to pull him back.



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PostSubject: Re: A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses   A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Apr 19, 2018 8:13 am

@Screamingophelia wrote:
My first thought and I will answer seriously in a second but @shadowedgoddess Potatoes, did they go to breakfast?? Maybe they went to Outback of course the night before and Dylan had the damn potatoes in the morning with Eric... I'm done.


@Screamingophelia  The when and where of the potato eating incident will never truly be known. This unanswered question will likely haunt us forever! Evil or Very Mad Haha
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PostSubject: Re: A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses   A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Apr 19, 2018 8:18 am

ShadowedGoddess wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
My first thought and I will answer seriously in a second but [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Potatoes, did they go to breakfast?? Maybe they went to Outback of course the night before and Dylan had the damn potatoes in the morning with Eric... I'm done.


[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  The when and where of the potato eating incident will never truly be known. This unanswered question will likely haunt us forever! Evil or Very Mad Haha

Without this knowledge (and the knowledge of the halcyon everything) we will never truly understand why Columbine happened Sad
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PostSubject: Re: A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses   A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Apr 19, 2018 10:31 am

can i read this for free anywhere?

i'm poor
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PostSubject: Re: A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses   A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Apr 19, 2018 10:35 am

eldigato wrote:
can i read this for free anywhere?

i'm poor

If you don’t mind audiobooks you can listen to it for free through scribd and Sue is the narrator.
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PostSubject: Re: A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses   A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Apr 19, 2018 10:35 am

@Screamingophelia wrote:
eldigato wrote:
can i read this for free anywhere?

i'm poor

If you don’t mind audiobooks you can listen to it for free through scribd and Sue is the narrator.

link?
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PostSubject: Re: A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses   A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Apr 19, 2018 10:37 am

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PostSubject: Re: A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses   A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Apr 19, 2018 10:21 pm

What does everyone think of Sue telling parents that they should read their kids' journals? I don't know if I agree with this. I can't image ever going through anyone's most private thoughts. That is a huge violation. I understand why she says this because of her situation. I suppose if you were really worried about your kid and they weren't telling you anything, but then when you tell them you read their journal, they're gonna be pretty pissed at you. I just don't think that's good advice.

She says that Dylan's "journal" was actually just scraps of paper and it sounds like she didn't even know he had them. Makes me wonder if he had a notebook filled with his thoughts and she found it while doing one of her room checks, if she would have read it?
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PostSubject: Re: A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses   A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Apr 20, 2018 1:57 am

@Mariposa919 wrote:
What does everyone think of Sue telling parents that they should read their kids' journals? I don't know if I agree with this. I can't image ever going through anyone's most private thoughts. That is a huge violation. I understand why she says this because of her situation. I suppose if you were really worried about your kid and they weren't telling you anything, but then when you tell them you read their journal, they're gonna be pretty pissed at you. I just don't think that's good advice.

She says that Dylan's "journal" was actually just scraps of paper and it sounds like she didn't even know he had them. Makes me wonder if he had a notebook filled with his thoughts and she found it while doing one of her room checks, if she would have read it?  

my notebook is just irl shitposting and ideas for an offensive meme wad but i can't make wads well cuz i'm too retarded so...

anyways noting even in it

don't even write about my crush
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PostSubject: Re: A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses   A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Jul 21, 2018 4:29 pm

The thing that stood out for me while reading the book and still continues to linger in my thoughts...is that Sue describes several times, moments in which Dylan was in serious pain and suffering from something that happened to him. He goes off on his own to cry and once even falls asleep under all his childhood stuffed animals. He even remarks to her that one occurence was the worst day of his life.

She's aware this has happened and aware of his responses and symptoms of despair, .and yet she does nothing.

She does not ask him what happened. She does not check in with him later to see how he is. She does not encourage him to tell her so she can help or even just listen to his story so he doesn't feel alone.

She simply leaves him on his own to cope with these obviously severe and tragic occurrences in his life without any support or understanding.
Kids need support. They need to know someone is there they can go to. Being a teenager is awful. Parents need to persue thier kids during times of trouble until they know whats going on. If not that then they need to follow up. Find out how their kids are doing afterwards. Find out if there is something they can do to help. Guide them along the rocky and dangerous slope of adolescents. Yes I know teenagers are very private but when your child is in distress you simply have to get in there until they are ready to talk. Get in their face and be so annoying they tell you just to shut you up. Whatever it takes.

She. Does. Nothing.

That poor kid. It breaks my heart.
If these are the stories she shared I wonder how many others occured that she didn't.
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PostSubject: Re: A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses   A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Jul 21, 2018 5:37 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
The thing that stood out for me while reading the book and still continues to linger in my thoughts...is that Sue describes several times, moments in which Dylan was in serious pain and suffering from something that happened to him. He goes off on his own to cry and once even falls asleep under all his childhood stuffed animals. He even remarks to her that one occurence was the worst day of his life.

She's aware this has happened and aware of his responses and symptoms of despair, .and yet she does nothing.

She does not ask him what happened. She does not check in with him later to see how he is.  She does not encourage him to tell her so she can help or even just listen to his story so he doesn't feel alone.

She simply leaves him on his own to cope with these obviously severe and tragic occurrences in his life without any support or understanding.
Kids need support. They need to know someone is there they can go to. Being a teenager is awful. Parents need to persue thier kids during times of trouble until they know whats going on.  If not that then they need to follow up. Find out how their kids are doing afterwards. Find out if there is something they can do to help. Guide them along the rocky and dangerous slope of adolescents. Yes I know teenagers are very private but when your child is in distress you simply have to get in there until they are ready to talk. Get in their face and be so annoying they tell you just to shut you up. Whatever it takes.

She. Does. Nothing.

That poor kid. It breaks my heart.



If these are the stories she shared I wonder how many others occured that she didn't.


Those resonated with me too. I know that he was really self-sufficient but he was still a child. He wasn’t a little adult. And he was suffering.

Another thing about the Mother’s Day incident when he says he can’t control his anger. If Dylan was always been such a gentle person why would that not shock her more?


Though she does talk about all the regrets she had about that day


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PostSubject: Re: A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses   A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Jul 21, 2018 7:07 pm

Exactly. She seemed to "check out" when he needed her. This probably made him feel even more alone and isolated. Without a support system or source of help. Things could have been a lot different. No one is a perfect parent though and we all make mistakes we regret.
I just do not understand how she could stand and watch with out doing anything. She could have just brought him his favorite dessert so he knew she cared that he was hurting. Life could have been very different for him.

Eric's parents did care about him and were doing "all the right tbings" for him. We do not know what went on but he did have a psychiatrist, a counsellor and was on medication for his mental health. This shows that they were not just standing by and watching him struggle. They may have have made mistakes but i do think they honestly cared and were trying to get him help. We will probably never know how much they knew about what Eric was planning.

That being said there were a lot of missed red flags but now that being said neither boy was struggling their entire life with mental instability and violent tendencies like that of a child who has spent thier entire life needing help. I don't think either parent imagined in any way what actually happened.

There was a mother of a troubled boy that wrote a letter about her son after the Sandy hook tragedy. She knew her son was capable of being the next Adam Lanza. Neither Eric or Dylan went through this life long struggle. I believe it was only a few years before thier deaths in which they struggled and suffered with mental health issues. I'll try to find that letter....
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PostSubject: Re: A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses   A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Jul 21, 2018 7:10 pm

So this is an article about the boy compared to Adam Lanza by his mom. The original blog link is in the article.

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PostSubject: Who was the four people Dylan let live?   A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Jul 24, 2018 4:07 pm

To read over and over again that Dylan let four people live I was confused as to who it was?
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PostSubject: Re: A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses   A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Jul 24, 2018 4:48 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
To read over and over again that Dylan let four people live I was confused as to who it was?

Evan Todd and John Savage both in the library, Tim Castle who was supposedly crawling in the ceiling when Dylan saw him and chose not to shoot him, I am blanking on the last one claimed but some say that Val Schnurr also counts due to the fact she was left alive

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PostSubject: Re: A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses   A Mothers Reckoning Book Responses - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Jul 25, 2018 6:19 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
To read over and over again that Dylan let four people live I was confused as to who it was?

Evan Todd and John Savage both in the library, Tim Castle who was supposedly crawling in the ceiling when Dylan saw him and chose not to shoot him, I am blanking on the last one claimed but some say that Val Schnurr also counts due to the fact she was left alive

Val Schnurr and Evan Todd were "spared" by both. I have a feeling Amanda Stair was also spared (possibly recognized). People on both sides of her died, but she did not.

In this sense there's many more library witnessess spared. There's the girls who got the "Pathetic!" quote, but who weren't shot for instance. I'm not sure the truth is as easy as just grouping people into "killed" and "spared" groups. Some were wounded, likely with the intention of being killed (Val), but once wounded E&D left them alive knowing they are just wounded not dead.

Overall the library shooting (with a few exceptions such as Kyle or Isaiah) victims seem very random. Despite Eric's rants in his diary, there was no "Kill em'all!" mentality displayed. They killed several people at random, but they also spared people at random. There was no single-minded drive to "shoot as many people in the head repeatedly" as would be later made by Cho or Lanza. E&D were not aiming for the highets possible bodycount, at least not in the library.

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