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 Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell

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PostSubject: Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell   Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Icon_minitimeTue Feb 16, 2016 12:48 am

From Susan Klebold's book:

Once, during sophomore year, Dylan said something to Tom about “hating the jocks.” Tom asked him if they were giving him a hard time, and Dylan answered with confidence: “They don’t bother me. I’m six four. But they sure give Eric hell.”

Would someone be so nice as to send this to Dave Cullen?

Was Dylan, in a way, Eric's protector? Did Eric hang around with him because he knew that, with his bigger buddy around, the assholes would leave him alone?

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell   Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Icon_minitimeTue Feb 16, 2016 1:35 am

Why would he bring up hating them if just to point out that they bullied Eric? Sounds to me like he was giving his dad hints about jocks bothering him, but was too embarrassed to outright say so.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell   Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Icon_minitimeTue Feb 16, 2016 1:45 am

gunsgobang wrote:
Why would he bring up hating them if just to point out that they bullied Eric? Sounds to me like he was giving his dad hints about jocks bothering him, but was too embarrassed to outright say so.

Tom was home with Dylan most of the time during the suspension. During one conversation, Dylan complained that the school’s administration favored athletes, making excuses for them while coming down hard on others for lesser offenses. In Dylan’s mind, school was a place where things were “not fair.” Yet he seemed to take the suspension in stride, and after the five days were up, all three of us smoothed our ruffled feathers and moved on.

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Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell   Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Icon_minitimeTue Feb 16, 2016 3:30 am

So by an admission in Sue's own book, Eric was a kid who was given Hell by people yet he was just a psychopath?

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell   Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Icon_minitimeTue Feb 16, 2016 3:37 am

PaintItBlack wrote:
So by an admission in Sue's own book, Eric was a kid who was given Hell by people yet he was just a psychopath?

Sue says that Eric has many psychopathic features, but she adds the disclaimer that you can't conclusively diagnose a dead teenager. She certainly tries to leave the impression that, yes, Eric was a psychopath.

She also says that while she does not give the revenge-for-bullying issue much weight, her husband believes that it was a key factor.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell   Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Icon_minitimeTue Feb 16, 2016 3:51 am

@LPorter,
I know that Sue has every right to accept and believe what she wants but I am utterly disappointed that she is going the psychopath route with Eric in her book. Especially since she has always said that she has been on a quest all the years to find as much truth and understanding as is humanly possible about her son and Columbine.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell   Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Icon_minitimeTue Feb 16, 2016 12:36 pm

LPorter101 wrote:


Sue says that Eric has many psychopathic features, but she adds the disclaimer that you can't conclusively diagnose a dead teenager. She certainly tries to leave the impression that, yes, Eric was a psychopath.


I'm hoping that this will inspire Eric's parents to speak up and say something about Eric...maybe write their own book.  I know they've gotta have something to say in his defense.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell   Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Icon_minitimeWed Feb 17, 2016 1:32 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],
I think we are all hoping for something that won't ever happen there. Eric's parents told the Mauser's that they never planned to speak to the media; they didn't think they could stand it.
Based on how silent they've been, I think they'll stay quiet. I don't think they are willing to endure the scrutiny y that Sue is subject herself too. With that, comes much criticism and most of it is not kind.

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Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell   Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Icon_minitimeWed Feb 17, 2016 7:36 pm

Freezingmoon wrote:
LPorter101 wrote:


Sue says that Eric has many psychopathic features, but she adds the disclaimer that you can't conclusively diagnose a dead teenager. She certainly tries to leave the impression that, yes, Eric was a psychopath.


I'm hoping that this will inspire Eric's parents to speak up and say something about Eric...maybe write their own book.  I know they've gotta have something to say in his defense.

That would certainly be interesting, but I'm afraid it will likely never happen. I get the feeling that the Harrises wish Eric had never been born and have no desire to defend him.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell   Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Icon_minitimeThu Feb 18, 2016 2:03 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],
I don't think that just because they haven't spoken out like we'd like them to do means that they feel that way.
They have a ton of legitimate reasons for not speaking out.I can't really blame them. We need to remember that these people have already lived through a hellish ordeal and people choose to deal with it differently.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell   Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Icon_minitimeThu Feb 18, 2016 2:08 am

PaintItBlack wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],
I don't think that just because they haven't spoken out like we'd like them to do means that they feel that way.
They have a ton of legitimate reasons for not speaking out.I can't really blame them. We need to remember that these people have already lived through a hellish ordeal and people choose to deal with it differently.

This is quite true and well stated, not to mention the legal ramifications, which at the time of the shooting, must have been very, very frightening.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell   Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Icon_minitimeThu Feb 18, 2016 2:35 am

Another thing to consider is if they did speak out disputing Eric's diagnosis  Dave Cullen and Langman and that FBI lady would be all over TV , online and newspapers saying they just don't want to accept their son was a psychopath, was doomed, all psychiatric professionals agree, blah, blah, blah.
Why rip your heart open to try to speak out if you are just going to get shot down like that? I wouldn't be surprised if that thought hadn't at least crossed the Harrises' mind, at least about Cullen. He's relentless and everybody knows it.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell   Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Icon_minitimeThu Feb 25, 2016 7:13 pm

Not just Cullen but Dr. Langman, Dr. Frank Ochberg, Dr. Mary Ellen O'Toole, Dwayne Fusilier--every professional who has examined Eric came to the conclusion that he killed from psychopathy, not bullying.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell   Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Icon_minitimeFri Feb 26, 2016 4:08 am

LPorter101 wrote:


Was Dylan, in a way, Eric's protector? Did Eric hang around with him because he knew that, with his bigger buddy around, the assholes would leave him alone?

LPorter, respectfully, I've never seen a shred of evidence that Dylan was Eric's protector.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell   Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Icon_minitimeFri Feb 26, 2016 4:12 am

Devon said a football player pushed her against her locker and said "Why are you talking to that faggot? Are you a dyke?" Devon said that the football player was referring to Dylan when the football player said faggot.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell   Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Icon_minitimeFri Feb 26, 2016 4:57 am

PaintItBlack wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.],
I think we are all hoping for something that won't ever happen there. Eric's parents  told the Mauser's that they never planned to speak to the media; they didn't think they could stand it.
Based on how silent they've been, I think they'll stay quiet. I don't think they  are willing to endure the scrutiny  y that Sue is subject herself too. With that, comes much criticism and most of it  is not kind.
It would be great if they did, but unfortunately we may never hear from them
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell   Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Icon_minitimeSat Mar 05, 2016 12:08 am

lasttrain wrote:
Not just Cullen but Dr. Langman, Dr. Frank Ochberg, Dr. Mary Ellen O'Toole, Dwayne Fusilier--every professional who has examined Eric came to the conclusion that he killed from psychopathy, not bullying.

Dwayne Fuseiler was so ridiculously biased that he should have resigned from the case.I've explained at length before why that's so.
And all these other so called adult professionals act like they have a literal and personal grudge against a deceased 18 year kid .
They certain try to demonize him every chance they get.Some have made a large part of their careers by demonizing him.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell   Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Icon_minitimeFri Mar 25, 2016 4:22 am

gumshoe wrote:
LPorter101 wrote:


Was Dylan, in a way, Eric's protector? Did Eric hang around with him because he knew that, with his bigger buddy around, the assholes would leave him alone?

LPorter, respectfully, I've never seen a shred of evidence that Dylan was Eric's protector.

Aside from the fact that Dylan was 6'4" and Eric was 5'8", you're right. But I still wonder.

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Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell   Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Icon_minitimeFri Mar 25, 2016 4:27 am

gunsgobang wrote:
Why would he bring up hating them if just to point out that they bullied Eric? Sounds to me like he was giving his dad hints about jocks bothering him, but was too embarrassed to outright say so.

If you read his journal, then you can see that he hated the jocks because he they got the girls that he wanted, but couldn't get.

He was jealous of them.

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PostSubject: Re: Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell   Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Icon_minitimeSun Mar 27, 2016 9:23 am

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At Columbine, the message that jocks rule seeped into student life in many ways. Randy Brown says that his own son, Brooks, encountered his share of harassment and that teachers stood by while a few athletes continually cut in line in the cafeteria--a show of superiority that also earned comment on Harris's Web site. ("YOU KNOW WHAT I HATE!!!? ASSHOLES THAT CUT!!!!! Why the fuck cant you wait like every other human on earth does. Every fucking line i get into i end up having to wait a fucking hour when there WAS only me and 1 other person in line! Then the queer sucking asshole lets all his\her so called friends cut in behind em! If that happens one more time i will have to start referring to the Anarchists cookbook (bomb section)."

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Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell   Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Icon_minitimeSun Dec 10, 2017 6:46 am

ThoughtBox wrote:
Freezingmoon wrote:
LPorter101 wrote:


Sue says that Eric has many psychopathic features, but she adds the disclaimer that you can't conclusively diagnose a dead teenager. She certainly tries to leave the impression that, yes, Eric was a psychopath.


I'm hoping that this will inspire Eric's parents to speak up and say something about Eric...maybe write their own book.  I know they've gotta have something to say in his defense.

That would certainly be interesting, but I'm afraid it will likely never happen. I get the feeling that the Harrises wish Eric had never been born and have no desire to defend him.

Exactly, I believe this a WHOLE lot. I keep saying, people tolerated Eric but no one really gave a shit about him, not his father, his mother, his so-called friends, Dylan was the only one who seemed to really care. This is why Eric's story is a lot sadder than Dylan's because no one liked or cared about Eric.

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Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell   Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Icon_minitimeSun Dec 10, 2017 7:17 am

There was a write up on Tumblr username has been censored I believe about Dylan being a devoted friend and not letting people down even up to the minute Eric killed himself that was fucking heart breaking.

If only they used their friendship for good

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Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell   Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Icon_minitimeSun Dec 10, 2017 12:47 pm

100% one of the reasons Eric would hang with Dyl because he was a big guy.
Eric hardy wrote about jocks, Dyl wrote about hating them all the time.
Chris Morris and Devon Adams both said the jocks gave Dyl trouble too occasionally, he was probably too afraid to admit it to his father.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell   Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Icon_minitimeSun Dec 10, 2017 4:19 pm

gumshoe wrote:
LPorter101 wrote:


Was Dylan, in a way, Eric's protector? Did Eric hang around with him because he knew that, with his bigger buddy around, the assholes would leave him alone?

LPorter, respectfully, I've never seen a shred of evidence that Dylan was Eric's protector.

I never understood this. Labeling Eric a "psychopath" is an excuse and not an explanation. Clearly they both showed "psychopathic behavior" but psychopath isn't a diagnosis. Eric showed FEELINGS and looking back there were cries for help. Neither of them were psychopaths. I watched an interview with Cullen and he was saying that the only way to stop Eric would have been if his parents knew he was a psychopath from birth and even then what could they do? Such bullshit. So Eric was born evil? He was a lost cause? A lot of factors caused Eric to shoot up Columbine

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Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell   Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Icon_minitimeWed Dec 27, 2017 11:52 am

Farthest fucking thing from a psychopath. Not to be rude but goddamn I mean how is it not obvious Harris wasn’t to people.

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Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell   Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Icon_minitimeWed Dec 27, 2017 3:32 pm

gumshoe wrote:
LPorter101 wrote:


Was Dylan, in a way, Eric's protector? Did Eric hang around with him because he knew that, with his bigger buddy around, the assholes would leave him alone?

LPorter, respectfully, I've never seen a shred of evidence that Dylan was Eric's protector.

Err...."his bigger buddy"? Taller maybe. Dylan was gangly and scrawny. I don't think height makes up for being scrawny as hell. This is not the same thing as endorsing some view that Dylan would have run screaming down the hall if a girl talked to him, mind you.

"In a way" Eric's protector? Friend, yes, strength in numbers yes, "protector" not really I don't think.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell   Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Icon_minitimeWed Dec 27, 2017 3:38 pm

I think it was a more of the "Buddy System" thing then Dylan being Eric's protector. Hell Dylan couldn't/wouldn't even protect himself.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell   Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Icon_minitimeTue May 05, 2020 2:26 pm

There are atlaest two interpretations about this that Im aware of.

1: 'The search for Truth at Columbine' by Peter Langmann.

2: A mothers reckoning by Sue Klebold.

Peter Langmann argues that this could imply that Eric was more bullied than Dylan. Because some other accounts said the same thing. That Eric was more likely to get picked on. Yet, Langmann also argues that some of this harassment could be retaliation for Erics own behaviour, which was far from perfect, to say the least. They had both sent threatning letters to a fellow classmate since 8th grade. They routinely got into fights with other students and so on. Basically, thats what he argues.

2: Sue Klebold argues that this could indicate that Dylan was both bullied and bullied others(as she doesnt talk much about Eric, yet she briefly mentions that they both may have formed a close friendship through shared humiliation).

I would have to say that Im a bit undisclosed about this or Im thinking: Do we ever get the full answer?' . I dont think so, as they are both dead
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell   Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Icon_minitimeWed May 06, 2020 10:34 am

Bigger buddy? Dylan would've been weak as hell. Just a tall, gawky weirdo. Eric on the other hand had short-man's syndrome.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell   Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Icon_minitimeSun May 17, 2020 10:36 pm

Possibly. Dylan Klebold didn’t much like the jocks, so them being together while this happened made it more of a reason for Dylan Klebold to stick around by him through the bullying, pushing, and abuse Eric Harris was facing.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell   Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Icon_minitimeSun May 17, 2020 11:35 pm

LPorter101 wrote:
From Susan Klebold's book:

Once, during sophomore year, Dylan said something to Tom about “hating the jocks.” Tom asked him if they were giving him a hard time, and Dylan answered with confidence: “They don’t bother me. I’m six four. But they sure give Eric hell.”

Would someone be so nice as to send this to Dave Cullen?

Was Dylan, in a way, Eric's protector? Did Eric hang around with him because he knew that, with his bigger buddy around, the assholes would leave him alone?
Wasn't Dylan called "stretch" by the jocks? (Reminds me of The Cable Guy).
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell   Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Icon_minitimeSun May 31, 2020 9:17 am

Perhaps Eric stuck by Dylan due to not wanting to be harassed, but it seemed to have happen even then, I read a story/testimonial somewhere about jocks surrounding their table at lunch and saying, “Why don’t you two fags kiss? You guys are such sweethearts.” I think it was maybe John Savage who gave that story to the press. Kinda lame for a large group of jocks to harass only a couple of kids who are eating lunch.  
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell   Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Icon_minitimeSun May 31, 2020 11:12 am

Damn that's rough.
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PostSubject: Re: Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell   Dylan: The jocks gave Eric hell Icon_minitimeThu Jun 04, 2020 9:51 am

It doesn't seem to me one can both disagree with Cullen that Eric had a special senior role in the massacre  *and* use (a single quote saying) that Eric, not Dylan, was bullied to show that Cullen was wrong to doubt the day 1 narrative about bullies. That's only significant if I buy the idea that Eric was the mastermind. Not to mention that Eric's comments about bullying are much more  along the lines of  "anti bullying is anti life, I can't wait to bully freshmen, natural selection" rather than "if only we had anti bullying measures Sad"
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