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 Lisa Kreutz

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PostSubject: Lisa Kreutz   Lisa Kreutz Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 2:40 am

I don't understand why she stayed when everybody else escaped, some seriously injured.

I do wonder what she overheard though.
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PostSubject: Re: Lisa Kreutz   Lisa Kreutz Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 10:20 am

Well from the columbine site, she was the one who overheard one of the two asking the whole "are you still with me/we're still gonna do this right?" line. and she was injured aswell. Why did she stay and was the last to be pulled out? I'm not sure, not sure as to whether investigators have asked her that aswell. I can only assume she went in and out of consciousness or she was literally petrified to move.

If she stayed throughout and was conscious enough though, then she most probably heard eric and dylan kill themselves.
Anyone have more information on this?

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PostSubject: Re: Lisa Kreutz   Lisa Kreutz Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 1:43 pm

I have seen from testimony in the 11k that she could not move her arms and thus could not pull herself up. Everyone else had already left her there.

Now it stands to reason that even if you do not have use of your arms you *could* use your legs to get up even though it would be hard,,,,but I think she was very hurt and in shock and I think that caused her to remain there.

I know she has never spoken publicly but as it stands she was really the only one there during the suicides (besides Patrick who understandably does not remember much) so I would love to hear some testimony from her!

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PostSubject: Re: Lisa Kreutz   Lisa Kreutz Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 2:05 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Yup me too.

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PostSubject: Re: Lisa Kreutz   Lisa Kreutz Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 2:26 pm

I wonder if someone found her if she would be willing to talk about it. It would be interesting to hear what others who were in the library heard/saw/remember. After 17 years I wonder how hard it might be for some to talk about it still.
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PostSubject: Re: Lisa Kreutz   Lisa Kreutz Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 2:28 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] me too. events in the library are the reports i'd really really wanna hear. Thing is if any one of the ones who were there talked about now we can't know for sure they may exaggerate an information.

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PostSubject: Re: Lisa Kreutz   Lisa Kreutz Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 3:01 pm

deathmedic wrote:
I wonder if someone found her if she would be willing to talk about it. It would be interesting to hear what others who were in the library heard/saw/remember. After 17 years I wonder how hard it might be for some to talk about it still.


Since she has never spoken before,I doubt she would now.Lisa was about the one one I can think of who was seriously injured that never gave any media interviews .She has always kept a very low profile and it seems she just wanted to heal from her injuries and get on with her life.

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PostSubject: Re: Lisa Kreutz   Lisa Kreutz Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 3:25 pm

Guys, was Lisa the only person who heard "are you still with me/we're still gonna do this right?" ?
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PostSubject: Re: Lisa Kreutz   Lisa Kreutz Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 3:34 pm

Kida wrote:
Guys, was Lisa the only person who heard "are you still with me/we're still gonna do this right?" ?

According to acolumbinesite yes, however that has been wrong before and I can't remember if anyone else mentioned that in the 11k
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PostSubject: Re: Lisa Kreutz   Lisa Kreutz Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 4:16 pm

Lizpuff wrote:
Kida wrote:
Guys, was Lisa the only person who heard "are you still with me/we're still gonna do this right?" ?

According to acolumbinesite yes, however that has been wrong before and I can't remember if anyone else mentioned that in the 11k
Maybe she heard that after Eric and Dylan entered the second time in the library and the other victims had left?
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PostSubject: Re: Lisa Kreutz   Lisa Kreutz Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 4:23 pm

Kida wrote:
Lizpuff wrote:
Kida wrote:
Guys, was Lisa the only person who heard "are you still with me/we're still gonna do this right?" ?

According to acolumbinesite yes, however that has been wrong before and I can't remember if anyone else mentioned that in the 11k
Maybe she heard that after Eric and Dylan entered the second time in the library and the other victims had left?

From her statement in the 11k she heard it when they very first entered:

The door to the library is always propped open and she could hear the 2 people coming into the library. She remembers hearing one of the gunmen say to the other "Are you still with me?" and "We're still gonna do this right?" After entering the library the gunmen started yelling and moved to the west side of the library. (and continues with how they shot people etc)
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PostSubject: Re: Lisa Kreutz   Lisa Kreutz Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 4:41 pm

Lizpuff wrote:
Kida wrote:
Lizpuff wrote:
Kida wrote:
Guys, was Lisa the only person who heard "are you still with me/we're still gonna do this right?" ?

According to acolumbinesite yes, however that has been wrong before and I can't remember if anyone else mentioned that in the 11k
Maybe she heard that after Eric and Dylan entered the second time in the library and the other victims had left?

From her statement in the 11k she heard it when they very first entered:

The door to the library is always propped open and she could hear the 2 people coming into the library.  She remembers hearing one of the gunmen say to the other "Are you still with me?" and "We're still gonna do this right?"  After entering the library the gunmen started yelling and moved to the west side of the library.  (and continues with how they shot people etc)
Then I bet it was Eric Razz Thanks for the info, Liz!
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PostSubject: Re: Lisa Kreutz   Lisa Kreutz Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 4:49 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Why do you feel it was Eric who asked that?
on a previous discussion on that line, my bet was always on Dylan.

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PostSubject: Re: Lisa Kreutz   Lisa Kreutz Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 5:37 pm

liquorvamp wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Why do you feel it was Eric who asked that?
on a previous discussion on that line, my bet was always on Dylan.

This whole discussion on that topic probably could be an interesting new thread as well!

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PostSubject: Re: Lisa Kreutz   Lisa Kreutz Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 5:39 pm

PaintItBlack wrote:
deathmedic wrote:
I wonder if someone found her if she would be willing to talk about it. It would be interesting to hear what others who were in the library heard/saw/remember. After 17 years I wonder how hard it might be for some to talk about it still.


Since she has never spoken before,I doubt she would now.Lisa was about the one one I can think of who was seriously injured that never gave any media interviews .She has always kept a very low profile and it seems she just wanted to heal from her injuries and get on with her life.

Absolutely. She has kept such a low profile that I had even forgotten her name until I saw this thread. She really has distanced herself from the circus that was/is Columbine.

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PostSubject: Re: Lisa Kreutz   Lisa Kreutz Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 6:12 pm

I go back and forth on who could have said that line.

First thought I always think it is Eric because Eric was shooting so many outside and Dylan did not shoot as many times.

But on the other hand when I really think about it I think it was Dylan because Dylan really wanted to die and get it over with, and I think Eric was very disappointed about the bombs failing.  So perhaps he could have been looking outwardly upset that moments into the incident they had already "failed"

Edit to say though, I wonder if any amount of filtering of the 911 call could get us an answer. If indeed it was said right when Lisa stated it was.
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PostSubject: Re: Lisa Kreutz   Lisa Kreutz Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 6:44 pm

Lizpuff wrote:
I go back and forth on who could have said that line.

First thought I always think it is Eric because Eric was shooting so many outside and Dylan did not shoot as many times.

But on the other hand when I really think about it I think it was Dylan because Dylan really wanted to die and get it over with, and I think Eric was very disappointed about the bombs failing.  So perhaps he could have been looking outwardly upset that moments into the incident they had already "failed"

Edit to say though, I wonder if any amount of filtering of the 911 call could get us an answer.  If indeed it was said right when Lisa stated it was.

I tend to agree with you on this rationale, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], I think Eric was disappointed, a little demoralized, a bit injured (the bloody nose), and in what some have coined the post-coital refractory period following their orgy of murder.

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PostSubject: Re: Lisa Kreutz   Lisa Kreutz Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 6:49 pm

well, we don't have the full 911 call either. We don't have the full of most evidence presented to us.
But if she was there throughout, she was definitely present when the boys took their lives.
I believe that Dylan was the one who said it because i think the dynamic between the two boys stayed as it was since the beginning; Dylan wanted it all to happen and he needed his sidekick who made things happen, Eric, to fuel it all up. Eric did 4/20 like a task that had to be completed whilst Dylan sunk the act of murder all in with glee. So he might've asked Eric that question in hopes that near the end, he had to make sure his comrade will take his own life too.

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PostSubject: Re: Lisa Kreutz   Lisa Kreutz Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 7:07 pm

liquorvamp wrote:
Dylan wanted it all to happen and he needed his sidekick who made things happen, Eric, to fuel it all up. Eric did 4/20 like a task that had to be completed whilst Dylan sunk the act of murder all in with glee. So he might've asked Eric that question in hopes that near the end, he had to make sure his comrade will take his own life too.

If this is true, can you explain why Eric fired far more shots than Dylan and killed and injured far more people?
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PostSubject: Re: Lisa Kreutz   Lisa Kreutz Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 7:36 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] because eric wanted to kill aswell. What I meant was, the process on 20 april 1999 of the boys was that eric committed silently and almost in a determined daze whereas dylan was more vocal and at peace that it was all going to end. Of course eric fired more shots, killing people was always his agenda whilst dylan's was to kill himself. But in a way, it could be like dylan hesitated a couple of times just to see if eric would do damage let alone more damage. Hell, in terms of taking their own lives even Eric got to it first.
I guess my point is Dylan prob had to make sure that his friend did the deed to the end that was ultimately his.

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PostSubject: Re: Lisa Kreutz   Lisa Kreutz Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 7:47 pm

Dylan's guns sucked, one kept jamming, the other had to be reloaded after one shot. Hence the reason Eric fired more times. The end.
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PostSubject: Re: Lisa Kreutz   Lisa Kreutz Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 7:49 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ah yes, and that too. thank you.

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PostSubject: Re: Lisa Kreutz   Lisa Kreutz Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 7:59 pm

If Lisa heard that before the boys entered the library it has to be Eric. Eric was shooting outside and Dylan was just clowning in school. Dylan seems to do much more damage when Eric is around. Dylan didnt act alone pretty well (like Eric did). I think when Eric entered the school it was clear that he wasnt going to chicken out and stop. At this point Eric went to retrieve Dylan. I cant imagine Dylan saying that to Eric in this situation.
I found an interesting quote from Sue's book which states Eric being the one who wanted to get his friend on track.
"On at least four occasions at the school-always out of Eric's earshot and line of sight- Dylan let people go. The physical evidence suggests two incidents during the rampage when Eric went to retrieve Dylan, perhaps to make sure he was still on board."
Maybe Sue isnt a good source cus I feel like shes trying to make her son look "better" than Eric.
God, I dont know what to believe now.... scratch
But again, maybe it was Dylan..he was the one "shaking like a leaf", always calling for Reb. Maybe he needed to boost his adrenaline and confidence by making sure that his friend is still by his side? Who knows.

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PostSubject: Re: Lisa Kreutz   Lisa Kreutz Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 8:05 pm

No problem. I'm never going to understands the whole Dylan was a follower who didn't reeeaallly want to kill people. I mean he shot a kid in the damn face, if that doesn't show intent to kill, then I don't know what would. If you look at the injured kids he shot at least three or four in the head. I can't quite remember the exact number right now because it's been awhile since I've really researched. But anyway, my point is he wanted to and did kill people.
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PostSubject: Re: Lisa Kreutz   Lisa Kreutz Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 8:05 pm

Well other witnesses stated that Eric was ordering Dylan around ie "Cover me" or "Go shoot over there" so if Eric had lost his nerve he got it back by the time they were in the cafeteria.

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PostSubject: Re: Lisa Kreutz   Lisa Kreutz Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 8:18 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] this is my alignment of events; Reb ordered, and as Liz said, he may have lost his nerve and hence Dylan had to ask that question and prompt Eric once again.
When dylan killed, though the number was lesser, he did horrid damages too. Lastly for me I judge based on their personality in itself. Dylan always needed assurance, Eric hardly. He was a tiny hardhead. Dyl had to make sure Reb got it together to give his orders and do his part of the damages. He had Arlene the better arsenal too. Dyl was improvising at one part asking Eric should they start knifing people. He was all over the place.

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Last edited by liquorvamp on Thu May 19, 2016 8:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Lisa Kreutz   Lisa Kreutz Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 8:31 pm

It sounds like Dylan was a kid in a candy store. Wildly throwing bombs, random shooting, he was the one to try to break into the science classes and shoot into them....

Eric tried to shoot the cafe bomb and Dylan tried to throw a bomb at it... both were destructive but I can see the crazy smile on Dylan's face and him skipping around and it is terrifying to me

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PostSubject: Re: Lisa Kreutz   Lisa Kreutz Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 10:04 pm

I wonder if those were asked between the two boys instead of how you all are taking it'd, as one question to the other.

Then again nobody else in the library heard this nor is it on the 911 cal, where you can clearly hear them enter the library and the whole "anybody in a white hat stand up" thing, so maybe Lisa was confused
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PostSubject: Re: Lisa Kreutz   Lisa Kreutz Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 10:14 pm

I really hope Lisa is positive she heard this and not a mix of trauma and things she thought she heard. She was the only one to hear this apparently.

and why do I feel I'd accept it better or it would make more sense if the question was asked the second time they entered the library than the first time.

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PostSubject: Re: Lisa Kreutz   Lisa Kreutz Icon_minitimeThu May 19, 2016 10:27 pm

liquorvamp wrote:

it would make more sense if the question was asked the second time they entered the library than the first time.

Exactly!
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