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PostSubject: Ancestry   Ancestry Icon_minitimeTue May 24, 2016 12:51 am

What was the ancestry of Dylan and Eric.

We know that Dylan's mom was half Ukranian Jewish and half Christian from the book and that Klebold is indeed a German surname, going by Surname Profiler as well as a last name search.

What was Eric?

I'm guessing he was 100% English or Scottish or a mix of both. A few last names are "Birks, Poole, and Harris" which are all English.

His parents look like they could be relatives as well which is strange.
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PostSubject: Re: Ancestry   Ancestry Icon_minitimeTue May 24, 2016 1:04 am

EGadz wrote:
What was the ancestry of Dylan and Eric.

We know that Dylan's mom was half Ukranian Jewish and half Christian from the book and that Klebold is indeed a German surname, going by Surname Profiler as well as a last name search.

What was Eric?

I'm guessing he was 100% English or Scottish or a mix of both. A few last names are "Birks, Poole, and Harris" which are all English.

His parents look like they could be relatives as well which is strange.


If anyone has an ancestry.com account, that might give us some really cool info.
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PostSubject: Re: Ancestry   Ancestry Icon_minitimeTue May 24, 2016 1:08 am

Apparently Eric's dad is dead.

ww.geni.com/people/Wayne-Harris/6000000033054313296
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PostSubject: Re: Ancestry   Ancestry Icon_minitimeTue May 24, 2016 1:10 am

Other last names are "Parks", "Holden", "Mann" and "Stacey". All sound English.
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PostSubject: Re: Ancestry   Ancestry Icon_minitimeTue May 24, 2016 1:22 am

EGadz wrote:
Apparently Eric's dad is dead.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

WOW, if that is true Wayne died at 66 years old (if he lived until Oct 7 2014).


Last edited by sororityalpha on Tue May 24, 2016 2:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Ancestry   Ancestry Icon_minitimeTue May 24, 2016 1:23 am

How do we know it's true?

I searched for an obituary but couldn't find any.

That's really sad though.

Maybe father and son are finally reunited Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Ancestry   Ancestry Icon_minitimeTue May 24, 2016 1:31 am

He's not dead. He has a linkedin profile which he updated last year. Unless he died in 2015.

ww.linkedin.com/in/wayne-harris-83171655
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PostSubject: Re: Ancestry   Ancestry Icon_minitimeTue May 24, 2016 2:26 am

I thought someone on here posted recent pics of Wayne Harris at some sort of reunion.

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PostSubject: Re: Ancestry   Ancestry Icon_minitimeTue May 24, 2016 2:40 am

EGadz wrote:
He's not dead. He has a linkedin profile which he updated last year. Unless he died in 2015.

ww.linkedin.com/in/wayne-harris-83171655


Eric's dad retired in 2015.
I am not sure what month.
As far as I know he is alive and well.

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PostSubject: Re: Ancestry   Ancestry Icon_minitimeTue May 24, 2016 2:48 am

ThoughtBox wrote:
I thought someone on here posted recent pics of Wayne Harris at some sort of reunion.

Those pictures were taken 8 years after Columbine.
I know this because many people at the reunion set up webpages to tell their former soldiers what they had been up to since they had served together and Wayne talked about Kevin getting married and talked about how the tragedy of Columbine had consumed their lives for 8 years but they were now recovering and moving on with life.
A lot of people got all huffy because Wayne also spoke about how when they were stationed in Wichita in 1981 they had their second son Eric, who later died at Columbine.They got angry that Wayne didn't identify Eric as a murderer instead of just saying he died there which I thought was unfair because he did indeed die there.

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PostSubject: Re: Ancestry   Ancestry Icon_minitimeTue May 24, 2016 3:31 am

Speaking of ancestry, though I am on the record here saying that I don't think the Basement Tapes are much more than two young teens blustering and espousing hate-filled bravado, I would however like to see the segment in which Eric finds out that Dylan is part-Jewish. That would be priceless. I think Sue Klebold references it in her book, and I have heard the look given by Eric to Dylan when he admits it in various different descriptions.

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Last edited by ThoughtBox on Tue May 24, 2016 3:32 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)
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PostSubject: Re: Ancestry   Ancestry Icon_minitimeTue May 24, 2016 6:12 am

Harris is a pretty popular last name. I know a few with that myself. I'm guessing the Wayne in that site is a different person.
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PostSubject: Re: Ancestry   Ancestry Icon_minitimeTue May 24, 2016 7:00 am

Wayne isn't dead.

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PostSubject: Re: Ancestry   Ancestry Icon_minitimeTue May 24, 2016 1:29 pm

ThoughtBox wrote:
Speaking of ancestry, though I am on the record here saying that I don't think the Basement Tapes are much more than two young teens blustering and espousing hate-filled bravado, I would however like to see the segment in which Eric finds out that Dylan is part-Jewish. That would be priceless. I think Sue Klebold references it in her book, and I have heard the look given by Eric to Dylan when he admits it in various different descriptions.

here is the excerpt from her book: Pg 102-103

On the weekend they made the video, I had decided to make a traditional
Passover dinner and invite a neighbor to join us, and I asked both of my sons for their work
schedules so I could plan accordingly. Dylan responded in a way I found immature and selfcentered.
He didn’t want to participate. The youngest person at the table has to read part of
the service, and he found it embarrassing.
I asked him to reconsider. “I know this holiday means nothing to you, but it means
something to me. We’ll have a good dinner. Do it for me?” When he said he would, I thanked
him and told him I appreciated it. Then there he was on the video, complaining to Eric about
his obligation to attend.
Eric, who is playing with a gun while Dylan talks, becomes very still and silent when he
hears the word “Passover.” He hadn’t known my family was Jewish. When Dylan realizes
what he has let slip, he starts backpedaling. He seems afraid of Eric’s reaction, and tells him
I’m not really Jewish—just a quarter, or an eighth. I couldn’t tell if he was worried about
being judged, or being shot.
Eric finally breaks the tension by offering a word of consolation to Dylan. Watching it, I
thought, You stupid idiots! All this talk about hating everyone and everything, and you don’t
even know what you’re talking about. It’s all something you’ve invented in your minds to
sustain your anger. The heartbreaking thing was that, for a moment there, it seemed like
Dylan had almost realized it.
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PostSubject: Re: Ancestry   Ancestry Icon_minitimeTue May 24, 2016 1:44 pm

Speaking on the website posted above though, It just seems silly. With the lack thereof information on it anyone could have posted it. We all know he was Eric's dad. It seems like the wikipedia of obits.

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PostSubject: Re: Ancestry   Ancestry Icon_minitimeTue May 24, 2016 1:53 pm

Dylan must've had a hard time dealing with confusion of his faith and such...he's, half or a quarter jewish I'm not so sure and, there he was with his friend who worshipped Hitler and everything he's done, with Dylan under such influence. I'm not sure if he was educated enough to know what he believed in and what to stand up for but, just that exchange on the basement tape proves how much he needed Eric's assurance or, he couldn't get into a battle of religion and faith with Eric. I'm not sure if it's because he didn't know enough or he couldn't let Eric down.

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PostSubject: Re: Ancestry   Ancestry Icon_minitimeTue May 24, 2016 2:32 pm

What was Erics ancestry if you had to guess. Back on topic.
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PostSubject: Re: Ancestry   Ancestry Icon_minitimeTue May 24, 2016 2:35 pm

A lot of Erics family came from the South. Particularly Oklahoma. I'm guessing he was Scotch-Irish, Welsh, or English.
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PostSubject: Re: Ancestry   Ancestry Icon_minitimeTue May 24, 2016 2:57 pm

Perhaps he was German, since he seemed to like everything German!

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PostSubject: Re: Ancestry   Ancestry Icon_minitimeTue May 24, 2016 2:59 pm

Except he didn't look anything close to what Germans look like.
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PostSubject: Re: Ancestry   Ancestry Icon_minitimeTue May 24, 2016 3:07 pm

EGadz wrote:
Except he didn't look anything close to what Germans look like.

I don't know...so many Americans are kinda like mutts. Everyone is mixed with everyone ala the great melting pot. Fair to say he was some sort of European descent but odds are we will never really know
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PostSubject: Re: Ancestry   Ancestry Icon_minitimeTue May 24, 2016 3:17 pm

Always thought 'Klebold' was more Russian, his nickname 'VoDKa' also.
It wouldn't surprise me if Eric's father's family originally came from the UK, that's the most common surname here pretty much, i've met atleast 100 Harrises in my life time.
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PostSubject: Re: Ancestry   Ancestry Icon_minitimeTue May 24, 2016 3:22 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I'm guessing he was Scotch-Irish, Welsh, or English. - those are the best guesses I'd agree with

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PostSubject: Re: Ancestry   Ancestry Icon_minitimeWed May 25, 2016 1:51 am

ThoughtBox wrote:
Speaking of ancestry, though I am on the record here saying that I don't think the Basement Tapes are much more than two young teens blustering and espousing hate-filled bravado, I would however like to see the segment in which Eric finds out that Dylan is part-Jewish. That would be priceless. I think Sue Klebold references it in her book, and I have heard the look given by Eric to Dylan when he admits it in various different descriptions.


Here is something I have never understood and that honestly makes no sense.
Eric and Dylan were close friends for 4 1/2 years.
I think Dylan always went to Eric's house more but still Eric must have been there many times at all different times of the year.How could Eric have had no idea that Dylan and his Mother were Jewish in all that time? Not even the slightest hint was ever brought up? Dylan even looks Jewish.

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PostSubject: Re: Ancestry   Ancestry Icon_minitimeWed May 25, 2016 3:44 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I think I read somewhere that Dylan's parents didnt normally celebrate Jewish holidays, or only did on special occasions... Can't remember where I read that, but it would explain why Eric wouldn't be aware of it. Plus like you stated, I don't think Eric was over at Dylan's that much.

To me Dylan's features could have been passed off as something else. I honestly thought he was Greek before I found out he was Jewish!
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PostSubject: Re: Ancestry   Ancestry Icon_minitimeWed May 25, 2016 4:26 am

Yes, but if he was there say even 15 times over the year, I can't believe he wouldn't have known.
I guess I don't understand how you could not know something like that about a friend you've been that close to for that long.

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PostSubject: Re: Ancestry   Ancestry Icon_minitimeWed May 25, 2016 4:33 am

I wonder how many other Klebolds there are, that aren't related to Tom. Has anyone ever come across someone with that last name? I'd probably nerd out and have to talk to the person if I ever somehow heard them say their last name was Klebold out loud or something, even thought its a slim to none chance. Harris is super common.
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PostSubject: Re: Ancestry   Ancestry Icon_minitimeWed May 25, 2016 4:55 am

liquorvamp wrote:
Dylan must've had a hard time dealing with confusion of his faith and such...he's, half or a quarter jewish I'm not so sure and, there he was with his friend who worshipped Hitler and everything he's done, with Dylan under such influence. I'm not sure if he was educated enough to know what he believed in and what to stand up for but, just that exchange on the basement tape proves how much he needed Eric's assurance or, he couldn't get into a battle of religion and faith with Eric. I'm not sure if it's because he didn't know enough or he couldn't let Eric down.

I don't think it really mattered to Dylan honestly. There is enough evidence IMO to show that Dylan had an ulterior motive he kept hidden from Eric. Dylan didnt give a shit about Nazism or Eric's opinion on the Jews. I don't think Dylan really gave a shit about the "Godly little whores" or the Christian propagation around Littleton either. Dylan wantd to die and his personal beliefs were just as weird as any religion. God and Heaven are ridiculous, but the Halcyon and infinite love with his dream girl wasnt? Being a smart kid he had to have known how hypocritical that sounds. Dylan played into the anger stuff because it pumped Eric up, and he knew that without Eric he couldnt go theough with NBK or suicide.

Without actually seeing this part of the BTs play out its near impossible to tell what his feelings were. Sue may have seen it as a momentary spark of clarity because Dylan is her son. She obviously still to this day has trouble dealing with what Dylan did. That's completely understandable of course, but we must take into account that bias. Instead it easily could have been Dylan realizing he tangled up the strings on his "death puppet" Eric, and the back pedaling may have been an attempt to keep Eric on board with the plan. Do we honestly believe that Dylan would be afraid of Eric? At that point neither had killed anyone and the plan was still just macho talk. Hell I personally find it hard to believe that it took Eric that long to figure it out. I've even seen people say it could have been a bad attempt at back-and-forth humor between the two. Maybe Dylan's heritage was an in-joke between them after all the hate Eric claimed to have for Jews. We just can't know without seeing them interact for ourselves.

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PostSubject: Re: Ancestry   Ancestry Icon_minitimeWed May 25, 2016 9:18 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] well put. thank you..something to keep in mind.

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PostSubject: Re: Ancestry   Ancestry Icon_minitimeWed May 25, 2016 11:07 am

Lizpuff wrote:
ThoughtBox wrote:
Speaking of ancestry, though I am on the record here saying that I don't think the Basement Tapes are much more than two young teens blustering and espousing hate-filled bravado, I would however like to see the segment in which Eric finds out that Dylan is part-Jewish. That would be priceless. I think Sue Klebold references it in her book, and I have heard the look given by Eric to Dylan when he admits it in various different descriptions.

here is the excerpt from her book:  Pg 102-103

On the weekend they made the video, I had decided to make a traditional
Passover dinner and invite a neighbor to join us, and I asked both of my sons for their work
schedules so I could plan accordingly. Dylan responded in a way I found immature and selfcentered.
He didn’t want to participate. The youngest person at the table has to read part of
the service, and he found it embarrassing.
I asked him to reconsider. “I know this holiday means nothing to you, but it means
something to me. We’ll have a good dinner. Do it for me?” When he said he would, I thanked
him and told him I appreciated it. Then there he was on the video, complaining to Eric about
his obligation to attend.
Eric, who is playing with a gun while Dylan talks, becomes very still and silent when he
hears the word “Passover.” He hadn’t known my family was Jewish. When Dylan realizes
what he has let slip, he starts backpedaling. He seems afraid of Eric’s reaction, and tells him
I’m not really Jewish—just a quarter, or an eighth. I couldn’t tell if he was worried about
being judged, or being shot.
Eric finally breaks the tension by offering a word of consolation to Dylan. Watching it, I
thought, You stupid idiots! All this talk about hating everyone and everything, and you don’t
even know what you’re talking about. It’s all something you’ve invented in your minds to
sustain your anger. The heartbreaking thing was that, for a moment there, it seemed like
Dylan had almost realized it.

Truer words have not been spoken. Sue is a very smart woman. It must have been incredibly awkward for Dylan to be unintentionally confronted as the subject of Eric's disdain and to be on the receiving end of his hatred, just for existing. Dylan obviously didn't get the message, a prime example being when he told Eric to "make sure that nigger is dead" right after Eric had blasted a hole in Isaiah Shoels' chest. Really sad.
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PostSubject: Re: Ancestry   Ancestry Icon_minitimeWed May 25, 2016 3:26 pm

PaintItBlack wrote:
ThoughtBox wrote:
Speaking of ancestry, though I am on the record here saying that I don't think the Basement Tapes are much more than two young teens blustering and espousing hate-filled bravado, I would however like to see the segment in which Eric finds out that Dylan is part-Jewish. That would be priceless. I think Sue Klebold references it in her book, and I have heard the look given by Eric to Dylan when he admits it in various different descriptions.


Here is something I have never understood and that honestly makes no sense.
Eric and Dylan were close friends for 4 1/2 years.
I think Dylan always went to Eric's house more but still Eric must have been there many times at all different times of the year.How could Eric have had no idea that Dylan and his Mother were Jewish in all that time? Not even the slightest hint was ever brought up? Dylan even looks Jewish.

Exactly, it has to imagine that Eric never knew this before, or the topic had never come up. Dylan (despite his looks, which I agree with what you say) must have hid it pretty well from Eric up to that point of his slip-up in the BTs.

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PostSubject: Re: Ancestry   Ancestry Icon_minitimeWed May 25, 2016 3:46 pm

ThoughtBox wrote:
PaintItBlack wrote:
ThoughtBox wrote:
Speaking of ancestry, though I am on the record here saying that I don't think the Basement Tapes are much more than two young teens blustering and espousing hate-filled bravado, I would however like to see the segment in which Eric finds out that Dylan is part-Jewish. That would be priceless. I think Sue Klebold references it in her book, and I have heard the look given by Eric to Dylan when he admits it in various different descriptions.


Here is something I have never understood and that honestly makes no sense.
Eric and Dylan were close friends for 4 1/2 years.
I think Dylan always went to Eric's house more but still Eric must have been there many times at all different times of the year.How could Eric have had no idea that Dylan and his Mother were Jewish in all that time? Not even the slightest hint was ever brought up? Dylan even looks Jewish.

Exactly, it has to imagine that Eric never knew this before, or the topic had never come up. Dylan (despite his looks, which I agree with what you say) must have hid it pretty well from Eric up to that point of his slip-up in the BTs.

Chris Morris stated in an interview that Dylan read books on Nazis, Nazi beliefs and spoke about Nazis. I don't doubt Dylan never mentioned it before. I am with pp that I don't think the Klebold's really celebrated much in the way of religious holidays. Technically I am a bit Jewish. Possibly as much as Dylan and I never mention it at all nor do I celebrate it. Ask any of my friends and prob none know that about me. I don't think it is too far off to assume Eric really didn't know until that moment.
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PostSubject: Re: Ancestry   Ancestry Icon_minitimeWed May 25, 2016 5:29 pm

That raises the question of did Eric really mean it the way it has been interpreted or did people jump to that conclusion because the only witnesses we have to this exchange (the Browns and Dylan's Mother) who have spoken about it publicly were very biased towards Dylan.The Browns were obviously sympathetic towards Dylan at the time since they had known him as a child and Brooks and he had been friends.They also had a terrible opinion of Eric.Dylan's Mom is also hugely biased and somewhat in denial to this day which many of us have discussed here extensively.
I highly doubt that Eric was going to turn on his best friend because of finding something like that out.
If he honestly didn't know this before he was probably surprised.
And then he said "I'm sorry man." which I believe meant that he was expressing sympathy to Dylan for his having to attend the Passover dinner and partake in the speeches and rituals etc.
Even Dylan's Mom admitted that Dylan complained about going and tried to get out of it, so it makes sense he'd be bitching to Eric about it.A petty thing to be bitching about, yes but they were self centered teenagers.

Lastly,I do not believe that Dylan was ever afraid of Eric.I just don't.At least not afraid in the sense that Dylan's Mom and others have tried to portray him as possibly being.

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PostSubject: Re: Ancestry   Ancestry Icon_minitimeWed May 25, 2016 5:57 pm

PaintItBlack wrote:
That raises the question of did Eric really mean it the way it has been interpreted or did people jump to that conclusion because the only witnesses we have to this exchange (the Browns and Dylan's Mother) who have spoken about it publicly were very biased towards Dylan.The Browns were obviously sympathetic towards Dylan at the time since they had known him as a child and Brooks and he had been friends.They also had a terrible opinion of Eric.Dylan's Mom is also hugely biased and somewhat in denial to this day which many of us have discussed here extensively.
I highly doubt that Eric was going to turn on his best friend because of finding something like that out.
If he honestly didn't know this before he was probably surprised.
And then he said "I'm sorry man." which I believe meant that he was expressing sympathy to Dylan for his having to attend the Passover dinner and partake in the speeches and rituals etc.
Even Dylan's Mom admitted that Dylan complained about going and tried to get out of it, so it makes sense he'd be bitching to Eric about it.A petty thing to be bitching about, yes but they were self centered teenagers.

Lastly,I do not believe that Dylan was ever afraid of Eric.I just don't.At least not afraid in the sense that Dylan's Mom and others have tried to portray him as possibly being.

I think the only thing Dylan was afraid of with Eric, was that he was afraid of losing him. Afraid of losing the friend that was helping him plan his suicide, his friend til the end. Same as what happened with Zach
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shades

shades


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PostSubject: Re: Ancestry   Ancestry Icon_minitimeWed May 25, 2016 7:34 pm

I don't think Dylan was afraid of Eric at all however he might not want to face how judgemental Eric could get. Dylan had definitely faced Eric's rage and mouth-running before and it would be awkward if lets say they end up having a mild banter about Dylan's faith. Hence I brought up earlier were they educated enough to know how to discuss Nazism-being Jewish and was it something they truly indulged in. but yes since we didn't see that portion of the basement tape we may not know how it came off.
Either way, I think at that point of time Eric just didn't care, and neither did Dylan.
Secondly, it's not really that hard to not find out somebody's faith or culture if they hardly openly showed it, let alone talked about it. In this case, I feel that Dylan never brought up being partially Jewish at all. It's respectfully common if someone hardly cherished nor celebrate it despite their family's beliefs.
And yup, if there's any factor that Dylan should be afraid of in losing Eric is losing his partner in crime because he needed his comrade to commit NBK-Suicide with him. Eric was the push he needed.

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PostSubject: Re: Ancestry   Ancestry Icon_minitime

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