What Was Their Motivation?

I've pondered this and cannot come up with anything that would motivate those 2 to plan for at least a year to blow up the school and shoot their peers.

I've read the 11k, I've read their journals, I've read all the books, I've researched endlessly online and I honestly can't come up with much of a motive.

I guess that's why we're all here, we don't know, but we can speculate.

We may never know all the answers as why two strapping young lads would commit such a horrendous act. Because the only two people that can answer those questions are already dead. Which I feel explains part of the fascination that has developed this fandom.

aquillina wrote:

We may never know all the answers as why two strapping young lads would commit such a horrendous act. Because the only two people that can answer those questions are already dead. Which I feel explains part of the fascination that has developed this fandom.

Yes, it definitely died with them. What we have of their writings, (which I believe there's more), their gripes are asinine, teenage angst type things. There's a reason 2 teenage boys plotted and planned for a whole year to blow up their school, but for the life of me, I can't fathom what it is

I've always believed they hated the school and their peers in the school but someone on here pointed out a different theory that makes a lot more sense. They didn't hate the school or their classmates, in fact they loved this place, committed suicide there so they'd be there forever. They did it less than two weeks before graduation because they didn't want to grow up, high school was comfortable, yes they were outcast but they liked it that way.
Why kill so many îf this was the motive? To be seen for once, they'd been planning for nearly a year and built up a huge arsenal right under people's noses and nothing. I think they just wanted someone to notice

It's just mind boggling, the planning, the execution, everything. And they weren't even careful about their planning. I remember at that age I wouldn't have been able to plan a year in advance for what I knew would be my death.

I'm close in age to them, and what strikes me is how trivial high school really was. How things that were such a big deal then, I now either no longer remember or vaguely remember it.

I was 8 when this happened so I got to experience how much schools changed (intruder drilłs atleast twice a year, all doors had locks and bulletproof glass)

This IS Evan Todd and he spews so much bs so take it with a grain of salt but this answers how they felt once the adrinaline had worn off [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Also we see them in the cafeteria after the massacre in the library and to me they look sort of dejected, Eric especially

I wish I could understand their motivation. Back in '99, it seemed so senseless to me, and it still does today . As I read the journals and 11k through my adult eyes, I can't help but think "you boys had all of these awesome classes that my nowheresville USA high school never even came close to and you hated it" ? On the other hand, I remember the teen angst of high school and trying to fit in, and yeah, it was rough, but certainly nothing to kill over.

The single best explanation I can come up with is that it had to have been some type of "perfect storm" type thing. No one known factor seems in itself to be a real motive and I wonder if we'll ever know.

They were mentally unstable and defeated at that aspect. Dylan's depression and self loathing went through the roof and Eric had given up on trying and impressing anybody. Their motivation is basically on paper and in documentaries and it is not a black and white explanation, but the better way to see it is what drove them to agree to finally do it is their mental instability that only they understand and live through. When I was in high school I hated the hell out of the people and the social ladder/hierarchy and myself and I've fantasised on taking out a few one by one but I never did it, I will not cause anyone any harm. The boys were fearless at that aspect. No hesitation, they wanted to cause violence. In their minds that was the best way to have their last hurrah and to tell the world their broken story if it meant collateral damage and their own deaths. It's the perfect teenage tragedy that the world fed off on along the years and it breeded copycats and movies, etc. I don't think Dylan would mind taking his own self out at that state of turmoil he was in but having met Eric who wanted to hurt others first, they got together and decided to kill people in the place that fed them to think they were the worst, unappreciated and unnoticed and then lastly kill themselves. They actually thought they were hot shit and they were mad that people deemed them weirdos if you think about it.

Rage,depression,bullying,ostracization,hopelessness.It can be hard to understand if you've never been in a similar state of mind or at least it seems like it usually is.

NotYourRobot wrote:

I've always believed they hated the school and their peers in the school but someone on here pointed out a different theory that makes a lot more sense. They didn't hate the school or their classmates, in fact they loved this place, committed suicide there so they'd be there forever. They did it less than two weeks before graduation because they didn't want to grow up, high school was comfortable, yes they were outcast but they liked it that way.
Why kill so many îf this was the motive? To be seen for once, they'd been planning for nearly a year and built up a huge arsenal right under people's noses and nothing. I think they just wanted someone to notice

You know, I lurk around here alot and I've got some opinions that I do not disclose cause I'm afraid I might be wrong, but I really dwell often on this part that you mention right now and I don't want to keep my thoughts inside my head this time. I also believe that, just like you and the 'other' person said, one of the deep, main reasons this happened was because all they knew was highschool and people connected with it, both good and bad.

I think about this VERY often and at least, to me, the theory of "them (or only Eric) wanting to be forever remembered" is wrong. Why? Because while bright (I hate seeing both E+D being paraded as incredibly smart/geniuses honestly), they were still young men with raw and simplified ideas about life. Eric's way of viewing life in black and white does not denote great intelligence, nor does Dylan's true love (a girl from the SAME place he was in, how CONVENIENT! It's almost like your soulmate just pops out when you want him/her to, not possibly in 50 years on the other side of the planet, all of it outside of your control) . KILL MANKIND, even people who brought us so far from at least a technological PoV (Juno made it into Jupiter orbit today wohoo!)? That's a very infantile way of viewing life... and thinking that they were blasting their brains with a bullet while smirking inside about how they'll be remembered forever is silly. It's simply a logical expectation but not a motivating behind the shootings.

Dylan would go away had NBK not happened (possibly the only true friend he ever had and contrary to what Eric tried to show to an audience, he was terribly afraid of losing that one connection - possibly the strongest he had with another person, especially considering he himself mentioned that moving away and losing friends was traumatizing and also knowing that he CRIED [THE REB - crying. Hah!] on a tape he knew would possibly be seen by people - like titanium being bended by a cockslap), he would be in a completely different environment even if he sat back home and attended community college.

Two intelligent young men, with college and a new world on the horizon, deciding to end it all even though they loved Doom and baseball and their music so much - people live on just for that tiny fragment of life. What if... the end came because they saw no future in the new world?

Now I know my thoughts are all over the place, kinda like throwing legos into a pit of bright colored balls and vomit but I can't help my fragmented thinking so hope you got something out of it. Also there's another thing that I wanted to say : my biggest Columbine mystery isn't Dylan exactly (the only thing I cannot figure out is how he acted normal through all the chaos in his head - IF it was real) but Eric's suicide. I'm having an incredibly hard time understanding his will to die even though i feel "connected" (not in the tumblr sense -_- ) to him and I think about it each day trying to figure it out to no avail.

Magnaphoria wrote:

Also there's another thing that I wanted to say : my biggest Columbine mystery isn't Dylan exactly (the only thing I cannot figure out is how he acted normal through all the chaos in his head - IF it was real) but Eric's suicide. I'm having an incredibly hard time understanding his will to die even though i feel "connected" (not in the tumblr sense -_- ) to him and I think about it each day trying to figure it out to no avail.

For me it's no mystery how Dylan is able to act normal through all the chaos in his head as that's basically how I am and how I live my days. It's numbness. Its not hard to carry on life while knowing you're gonna kill people and die because you're beyond turmoil and he's basically dead inside closing in to NBK. And since knowing he's no longer gonna be alive for sure, it almost made him feel elated and relieved, hence he could go to prom and dance the night away. There's that level of depression certain people reach to that extent where they shut themselves off of reality and any feelings.
Now for Eric, for his suicide, I think I may have mentioned before, honestly I feel he never had that intent of killing himself. It was just something he had to do in order to not get taken in after killing people. On 4/20 the failure of the bombs and the honest lackluster of their quick massacre evidently bummed him out, I could tell he was disappointed after it all happened, and in order not to fathom how he was still as much as a loser as he thought he was before, he quickly went and shot himself. He didn't have a will to die prior to NBK he had the will to kill. Dying was an obligation for him.

and [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I understand what you mean when you made that paragraph about the boys actually loving the school not hating it. If I could try to elaborate it myself, the boys happened to be one of the few teens who thought their teenage years were the most important ones of their lives and they badly wanted to be somewhere above the social ladder. It's so crazy to establish as adults and in hindsight but many adolescents take their reputation seriously, and chances are when a kid says they hate their school, what they mean is they want to love it because they wished they were popular and accepted by their peers and everyone in the school. Because yeah it's true, why wouldn't they have caused a rampage somewhere else, killed other people outside etc? Why strictly Columbine and then dying AT the place they HATED the Most? The boys had a love-hate relationship with the school like sometimes you do with people. They tried to fit in and they failed and lashing out at fellow students and the school was the only retaliation they knew. Might as well make their mark for living up till 17-18years old and having their memory etched as it was up till 1999 forever.

Their shitty teenage life was all that they knew and unfortunately that experience has led them to think there would be no good future in adulthood. So they stopped their lives up till there.

This isn't my theory; I think I first saw it in the comments section of an article but I've seen it mentioned more than once and I thought it was interesting.

There are some who believe that the massacre was a form of Eco Warfare. I assume this is based on Eric's writings about humans committing mass suicide and giving the planet back to the animals, the problems he had with the idea of animal abuse and his writings about appreciating nature. I tend to think these feelings either were the root of his hatred towards his own species or they added onto it. But I think these things were pretty important to Eric.

I don't think this theory applied as much to Dylan though. But only because he never really wrote about it. Its possible that they discussed it in lerson, though.

Deep down I feel that if Eric had grown up in a different environment he possibly would have been a hippie type. Just based on how aware he was, his compassion for animals and nature, and his sensitive disposition. His parents strike me as old fashioned, and with his dad being in the military and living in a small town full of very closed-minded people, it's possible that he would have struggled more that way. But we'll never know what could have been haha

They were teenagers and in their rants you see they were somewhat immature. They had all this hate and anger in them they couldn't understand themselves.

Wow what a great, varied response. I've never experienced depression the likes to which Dylan apparently did. Again, I'm a year or so older than they would be and I lost my mother at 18 suddenly which quickly spiraled into significant, horrible abusive issues with my dad. So, basically I grieved the loss of 2 parents, out on my own, by myself. This probably explains why I wasn't interested in Columbine when it happened. I also lost a sister a few years back and that was probably as close to depression as I have been. Again, she died suddenly, she was very young, but her husband was, and still is, the biggest piece of shit on earth. If I had the opportunity, well....he'd be laying on my slab in the morgue.

I agree it was all about the suicide for Dylan, but I don't know about Eric. I think I read in another thread where it was possible Dylan said he'd kill with Eric if Eric died with him. He mentions in his journal suicide, but he just didn't seem like that's what he really wanted.

I don't know. One member here (may have been Bubbles I am not sure) but anyway they mentioned a thought that has stuck with me.

Eric talked about an enemy. Someone who he hated. He had missions against him. He ranted about him online, he plotted killing him and his family...Brooks. And why did he hate him? Because he was late picking him up in his car?

Now I don't know if the situation is as cut and dry as it is made out to be. But if your biggest enemy is someone who is late to pick you up in the morning, that just feels off.

And Dylan. He talked about kids picking on him in daycare. 17 years old and talking about things that happened that long ago?

I do think bullying occurred at Columbine. It may well have been worse than other schools in fact. And I do think Eric and Dylan were both bullied. Perhaps they had ketchup thrown on them. Perhaps they had balls thrown in their face. However I no longer believe that the boys did the massacre because of bullying. I think both of them were also bullies to others. Adam Kyler for one. He was terrifed of Dylan. There is not a lot of information on that however. Adam was mentally challenged and said that he was threatened and was scared to go to class. What exactly did Dylan do to him?

It is obvious both were hating their lives. Lives they made. It is also obvious to me that they were doing anything they could to find reasoning for this crime. I will never know the thoughts they kept deep down inside. The real thoughts behind NBK. Did both just want to kill people? Did they just want the power that came with holding a weapon? Did they want to re-enact Doom? I am not sure. But I think all the "reasons" they gave were B.S. I don't believe any of that. Bullying did not cause NBK. No more than Marilyn Manson or Hitler.

I agree, big bad Dylan whining about frigging DAYCARE!!! Seriously?!? Come on, man, at least make something dramatic up! And the whole time he's whining, he's thinking this will be disseminated to the world. I wish DAYCARE was the only bad thing to ever happen to me lol

Lizpuff wrote:

I do think bullying occurred at Columbine. It may well have been worse than other schools in fact. And I do think Eric and Dylan were both bullied. Perhaps they had ketchup thrown on them. Perhaps they had balls thrown in their face. However I no longer believe that the boys did the massacre because of bullying. I think both of them were also bullies to others. Adam Kyler for one. He was terrifed of Dylan. There is not a lot of information on that however. Adam was mentally challenged and said that he was threatened and was scared to go to class. What exactly did Dylan do to him?

It is obvious both were hating their lives. Lives they made. It is also obvious to me that they were doing anything they could to find reasoning for this crime. I will never know the thoughts they kept deep down inside. The real thoughts behind NBK. Did both just want to kill people? Did they just want the power that came with holding a weapon? Did they want to re-enact Doom? I am not sure. But I think all the "reasons" they gave were B.S. I don't believe any of that. Bullying did not cause NBK. No more than Marilyn Manson or Hitler.

I agree that their anger over the littlest things were really off to hear. I mean eric just kept complaining about a certain guy with Susan he just keeps complaining about people. It goes back to what I have state about mental instability, insecurity and their ego. Superiority complex. The counter bullying they did is obviously out of self-loathing and to make themselves feel better and in power.

I would agree that the reasons they gave on camera may be pure excuses, but it could also be the trigger that ticked them off on in the inside and they thought it was the last straw and NBK was the best way to end it all. In our perspective we may see how ungrateful they are because they actually seemed much better guys than most out there, I think they even had better comfortable lives than I do and enough people like them so why were they so angry? It's the problem in their minds. They weren't psychopaths or sociopaths (in my opinion) BUT, there was a depressive+angered (induced with meds for Eric) state in them.

p/s I think his reminisce over getting picked at Daycare was suppose to explain that he's such a piece of shit or loser that even young kids knew to pick on him as opposed to showing him respect. He's reminiscing how shitty a person he thinks he is.

ultraviolencelv wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

I do think bullying occurred at Columbine. It may well have been worse than other schools in fact. And I do think Eric and Dylan were both bullied. Perhaps they had ketchup thrown on them. Perhaps they had balls thrown in their face. However I no longer believe that the boys did the massacre because of bullying. I think both of them were also bullies to others. Adam Kyler for one. He was terrifed of Dylan. There is not a lot of information on that however. Adam was mentally challenged and said that he was threatened and was scared to go to class. What exactly did Dylan do to him?

It is obvious both were hating their lives. Lives they made. It is also obvious to me that they were doing anything they could to find reasoning for this crime. I will never know the thoughts they kept deep down inside. The real thoughts behind NBK. Did both just want to kill people? Did they just want the power that came with holding a weapon? Did they want to re-enact Doom? I am not sure. But I think all the "reasons" they gave were B.S. I don't believe any of that. Bullying did not cause NBK. No more than Marilyn Manson or Hitler.

I agree that their anger over the littlest things were really off to hear. I mean eric just kept complaining about a certain guy with Susan he just keeps complaining about people. It goes back to what I have state about mental instability, insecurity and their ego. Superiority complex. The counter bullying they did is obviously out of self-loathing and to make themselves feel better and in power.

I would agree that the reasons they gave on camera may be pure excuses, but it could also be the trigger that ticked them off on in the inside and they thought it was the last straw and NBK was the best way to end it all. In our perspective we may see how ungrateful they are because they actually seemed much better guys than most out there, I think they even had better comfortable lives than I do and enough people like them so why were they so angry? It's the problem in their minds. They weren't psychopaths or sociopaths (in my opinion) BUT, there was a depressive+angered (induced with meds for Eric) state in them.

I agree Luvox was the beginning of the end for Eric. That medication was terrible for him. I wish he would have just stayed off of it. I guess he wanted to help himself at times and thought that this medication might help because others told him it would help. "Having too many thoughts".... I feel bad that of all the items he checked off on his list of problems that is what they latched on to. I would love to hear from his counselor

Lizpuff wrote:

I agree Luvox was the beginning of the end for Eric.  That medication was terrible for him.  I wish he would have just stayed off of it.  I guess he wanted to help himself at times and thought that this medication might help because others told him it would help.  "Having too many thoughts".... I feel bad that of all the items he checked off on his list of problems that is what they latched on to.  I would love to hear from his counselor

I agree as well. I had a similar experience with Paxil . Racing thoughts, irrational anger, and so on. And it is a known potential side effect of some antidepressants . I wonder if the psychiatrist who put Eric on Luvox warned his family to watch out for this .

Very good question!
If I try to think about their motivation, I cannot come to any real conclusion. Just guessing.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], I especially like your idea! It seems to be probable, maybe one important part of the truth - that we will never get to know, as [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] pointed it out, it died with them - that they just did not want to grow up. If we think about their timing - they decided to do it shortly before graduation - it may refer to their wish to be remembered as the "high school suicidal terrorist guys". Absolutely possible, I think.

If I let my inner psychologist (yes, some have an Inner Child inside themselves, while others have their Inner Psychologist) ramble, I have to notice some kind of grandiose, narcissistic desire to be eternally the angsty outcasts they were.

But, again - this is likeably only one part of the truth.

When it comes to school bullying, this is always very subjective.
I am a survivor of extremely bad mobbing, so I would rather not bagatellize this. I can understand whyDylan wrote about old memories of being picked on.
Some say that both Eric and Dylan were mobbed - it is true, but later they found a certain position in the community. (Yes, even being "the outcasts" means a certain position.) Even if they were not the most popular ones, they did have friends, they were able to function outside school (working at Blackjack Pizza), and, yes... they did pick on other kids.
(This is what I really don't understand. Having been a target of bullying myself, I would never do the same to others. I might not behave perfectly, but at least I try to not hurt others intentionally.)
So, school mobbing was definitely not "the" motivation for them.

The same goes for M.Manson and interest in Nazi Germany, yeah [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], I completely understand your feelings. These guys had great possibilities, many of us cannot even dream about such ones: getting into a program for the extraordinarily gifted; they both had good families (okay, not perfect families, but seemingly better than the average)...
About the teen angst - well, many teens are actually fantasizing about killing, but very few of them decides to act on their fantasies.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], this is a really important part of the truth too! Mental instability (though it could be another thread's topic) and that you mentioned.

Somehow I feel that they surely fueled each others' destructiveness. Giving and getting feedback to/from each other must have been an enormous motivation. They completed each other too well, and they never let each other get demotivated. At least this is my impression.

So, could we say that it was a horribly unfortunate combination of many diverse circumstances? (Just like at plane crashes, there are at least 5...6 combined reasons that lead to the tragedy.)

Moonshadow wrote:

Very good question!
If I try to think about their motivation, I cannot come to any real conclusion. Just guessing.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], I especially like your idea! It seems to be probable, maybe one important part of the truth - that we will never get to know, as [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] pointed it out, it died with them - that they just did not want to grow up. If we think about their timing - they decided to do it shortly before graduation - it may refer to their wish to be remembered as the "high school suicidal terrorist guys". Absolutely possible, I think.

If I let my inner psychologist (yes, some have an Inner Child inside themselves, while others have their Inner Psychologist) ramble, I have to notice some kind of grandiose, narcissistic desire to be eternally the angsty outcasts they were.

But, again - this is likeably only one part of the truth.

When it comes to school bullying, this is always very subjective.
I am a survivor of extremely bad mobbing, so I would rather not bagatellize this. I can understand whyDylan wrote about old memories of being picked on.
Some say that both Eric and Dylan were mobbed - it is true, but later they found a certain position in the community. (Yes, even being "the outcasts" means a certain position.) Even if they were not the most popular ones, they did have friends, they were able to function outside school (working at Blackjack Pizza), and, yes... they did pick on other kids.
(This is what I really don't understand. Having been a target of bullying myself, I would never do the same to others. I might not behave perfectly, but at least I try to not hurt others intentionally.)
So, school mobbing was definitely not "the" motivation for them.

The same goes for M.Manson and interest in Nazi Germany, yeah [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], I completely understand your feelings. These guys had great possibilities, many of us cannot even dream about such ones: getting into a program for the extraordinarily gifted; they both had good families (okay, not perfect families, but seemingly better than the average)...
About the teen angst - well, many teens are actually fantasizing about killing, but very few of them decides to act on their fantasies.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], this is a really important part of the truth too! Mental instability (though it could be another thread's topic) and that you mentioned.

Somehow I feel that they surely fueled each others' destructiveness. Giving and getting feedback to/from each other must have been an enormous motivation. They completed each other too well, and they never let each other get demotivated. At least this is my impression.

So, could we say that it was a horribly unfortunate combination of many diverse circumstances? (Just like at plane crashes, there are at least 5...6 combined reasons that lead to the tragedy.)

I very much think it was the so called "perfect storm" of happenings that caused this. The timing in which Eric and Dylan met...Eric having been a military brat so to speak already arriving to CO with issues....I think this started as a hypothetical what if situation that morphed into reality.

Moonshadow wrote:

I have to notice some kind of grandiose, narcissistic desire to be eternally the angsty outcasts they were.

Sounds legit to me.

Moonshadow wrote:

Somehow I feel that they surely fueled each others' destructiveness. Giving and getting feedback to/from each other must have been an enormous motivation. They completed each other too well, and they never let each other get demotivated. At least this is my impression.

This is a nice touch to the closest possibilities. Unfortunately they had met and found each other; that could simply be the number one cause of Columbine if anything.

I think their motivation was one another. If let's say they tried to pitch NBK to anyone else which in fact they already had, and they got turned down and called insane and reported it could've been avoided. They had one another to pull it off. This was definitely a win for Dylan I mean now he had a reason to kill himself.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I agree with what you've said here. I think there are so many elements that went into this, that even if they were alive, we would never comprehend it.

I was never bullied, and I never bullied anyone, but I did stick up for those who couldn't/wouldn't. I've always had an assertive personality and have never taken crap from anyone. I weigh 100 lbs too, lol. I would take up for anyone in a bullying situation. I learned in elementary school to stand up for myself and it has always worked. Shoot, I would even stand up to boys lol.

In high school, I had a boyfriend who punched me in the face and ran away. When I caught up to him, I kindly reciprocated and bear the scar on my hand from breaking his tooth. And I do so with honor.

Sorry to ramble on, but I befriended a guy in high school, who looking back, reminds me of Dylan. One of the best friends I ever had. People made fun of him and picked on him and called him names. Not after he was my friend. He would draw things similar to E & D and, in a lot of ways, was similar to them. We've been out of touch for 16 years, but he's married, with a baby and a great job.

Perhaps this is part of the Columbine intrigue for me, idk.

Lizpuff wrote:

I very much think it was the so called "perfect storm" of happenings that caused this.  The timing in which Eric and Dylan met...Eric having been a military brat so to speak already arriving to CO with issues....I think this started as a hypothetical what if situation that morphed into reality.

Yeah, good that you mention Eric's background. I have thoughts on this too. If Dad is in the military - or has been in the military -, he might not be able to take off his uniform, not even when he is at home. The kids and also the wife must show discipline, and everything has to be in apple-pie order! As far as we know what kind of personality Eric had, it must have been really hard for him.

ultraviolencelv wrote:

I think their motivation was one another. If let's say they tried to pitch NBK to anyone else which in fact they already had, and they got turned down and called insane and reported it could've been avoided. They had one another to pull it off. This was definitely a win for Dylan I mean now he had a reason to kill himself.

Exactly. I have nothing to add.

Tomb wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I agree with what you've said here. I think there are so many elements that went into this, that even if they were alive, we would never comprehend it.

I was never bullied, and I never bullied anyone, but I did stick up for those who couldn't/wouldn't. I've always had an assertive personality and have never taken crap from anyone. I weigh 100 lbs too, lol. I would take up for anyone in a bullying situation. I learned in elementary school to stand up for myself and it has always worked. Shoot, I would even stand up to boys lol.

In high school, I had a boyfriend who punched me in the face and ran away. When I caught up to him, I kindly reciprocated and bear the scar on my hand from breaking his tooth. And I do so with honor.

Sorry to ramble on, but I befriended a guy in high school, who looking back, reminds me of Dylan. One of the best friends I ever had. People made fun of him and picked on him and called him names. Not after he was my friend. He would draw things similar to E & D and, in a lot of ways, was similar to them. We've been out of touch for 16 years, but he's married, with a baby and a great job.

Perhaps this is part of the Columbine intrigue for me, idk.

Very nice of you that you stuck up for those who needed! (I could say much about my experiences: if I dared to strike back, so there were 4...5 other kids who came against me. And it was me who was punished by the teachers, for being "antisocial" and "aggressive" and a "nervous wreck who is difficult to deal with." Oh yeah. I did not just endure the bullying with an angelic smile, so I was the bad one. But this is offtopic here.)

Yes, it was absolutely justiceful to defend yourself.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] That brings a tear to my eye. I am so sorry for what you've been through. Were you my friend I woulda kicked some ass lol. You seem so kind, insightful, with so much to offer. How are you doing now?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]: thank you so much for caring! I would recommend that we discuss this in private, so that this thread will remain on-topic. And thanks again!

A lot of the things they said seems petty or short sighted especially in comparison to what they did because it was.
They were so incredibly young that it would surprise me if it hadn't been short sighted.
But of course none of this seemed petty or short sighted to them at the time.How many times have you heard of a teen killing themselves or trying to because of a breakup or their parents won't let them go to a concert or the like?
As a teen everything seems like life and death and it can be almost impossible to believe that your life ill someday be different than today,that you'll feel differently.

And there was really nothing they could have said that would have been a justification for what they were planning to do.

PaintItBlack wrote:

A lot of the things they said seems petty or short sighted especially in comparison to what they did because it was.
They were so incredibly young that it would surprise me if it hadn't been short sighted.
But of course none of this seemed petty or short sighted to them at the time.How many times have you heard of a teen killing themselves or trying to because of a breakup or their parents won't let them go to a concert or the like?
As a teen everything seems like life and death and it can be almost impossible to believe that your life ill someday be different than today,that you'll feel differently.

And there was really nothing they could have said that would have been a justification for what they were planning to do.

Yes, looking at it like that, it makes sense. Teen angst and teen hormones have accounted for a lot of bad decisions. But it seems as if they're reaching reaaaallllllyyyyyy far to come up with reasons to kill innocent people and themselves.

PaintItBlack wrote:

A lot of the things they said seems petty or short sighted especially in comparison to what they did because it was.
They were so incredibly young that it would surprise me if it hadn't been short sighted.
But of course none of this seemed petty or short sighted to them at the time.How many times have you heard of a teen killing themselves or trying to because of a breakup or their parents won't let them go to a concert or the like?
As a teen everything seems like life and death and it can be almost impossible to believe that your life ill someday be different than today,that you'll feel differently.

And there was really nothing they could have said that would have been a justification for what they were planning to do.

All good points. Things seem so much worse than they are in those years. I can't tell you how many times I've told my daughter - "Just wait about 5 years......this will all come into focus" Lots of molehills become mountains .

You are correct. Much like nothing the Klebolds or Harrises could say now would be enough, nothing Dylan or Eric could have said then would've been considered a good reason.

But despite the fact that it's no good reason, what if it is all that they felt back then? Meaning their social and self-loathe problems really hurt them and it's only something one with mental issues or depression can feel? What if they were truly truly angry and upset and they couldn't see any future or garner any patience at all? Otherwise they would've considered waiting it out or dropping the whole thing no? It was an impulsive decision they made but they kept it when they realised things kept getting shitty for them.