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 When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack

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PostSubject: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeThu Aug 04, 2016 5:38 pm

So the title explains for itself. It has somehow almost gotten out of hand from what I've witnessed on other sites within the Columbine community.
There's actually a debate and a semi-fight coming from those who romanticise Eric and Dylan way beyond delusion, and are saying nasty things towards civil ones who tell them or perhaps indirectly as a whole that their actions and the things they write about the boys are inappropriate, it's cringy, and they're exposing the type of person they are amongst those who may be offended with what they put out.

What are you guys' thoughts or form of retaliation? I know it's absolutely easy to ignore and its your own choice to not see these things. But how do we handle how obnoxious it is or the fact that we're speaking to somebody who is snippy and ignorant about the fact that they're still murderers, and yet are basically having a wet dream about the boys?

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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeThu Aug 04, 2016 7:01 pm

When you say "other sites," are you referencing Tumblr? Cause I've seen what you're talking about there.
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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeThu Aug 04, 2016 7:03 pm

I think the most disturbing part is the fact that the majority are teenagers who are currently enrolled in school. Its one thing when a crazy middle aged person like Lynn Ann worships Eric, but these teens may be going through the same kind of issues E/D were when they committed the shooting. IMO that alone puts them at a higher risk of pulling a copycat shooting. The fact that they're teenagers (especially the ones in "love" with them") they don't always have the capacity to listen to reason or logic. Although I wasnt "into" Columbine when I was in highschool I most certainly received my fair share of bullying. I don't doubt for a second that I'd have found some solace in the Columbine massacre because of the "revenge" angle. That's just a product of the typical reactionary thinking teenagers experience. When you feel alienated and misunderstood its easy to get wrapped up in that kind of mindset.

Honestly I don't think anyone single person is capable of changing it. We'd need a complete overhaul of American school systems view on bullying/harassment, as well as a major shift in internet culture in general. For every genuinely disenfranchised Harris/Klebold admirer how many dozens do you think are in it simply for the "edge" factor? "I'm obsessed with school shooters, how dark and edgey am I?" Ironically its that same kind of thinking that led to E/D wearing trenchcoats, as well as the existence of goth/emo/edge culture in general. It also ties into Marilyn Manson being blamed for the shooting too. Some kids have such an urge to be different that they turn to the macabre, while the status quo they seek to escape misunderstands and further pushes them away. Its a vicious cycle that continues to perpetuate itself.

The first step though? Stop labeling these killers monsters and making them out to be pure evil. Evil sells and the media knows it. Stop giving these angry kids the martyrs to lean on. That's far from a problem solver, but its the most important step IMO.
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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeThu Aug 04, 2016 7:27 pm

doomsdaydream wrote:
When you say "other sites," are you referencing Tumblr? Cause I've seen what you're talking about there.
Yes, it's ugly and it's ridiculous. How can these kids or unfortunately, grown adults though, justify or defend the fact that they've gone personally delusional on an actual crime? But that aside, what I'm bringing up is malicious words though. Like online-bullying. What is this the early 2000s? It's 2016.

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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeThu Aug 04, 2016 7:31 pm

Nirvana92 wrote:
I think the most disturbing part is the fact that the majority are teenagers who are currently enrolled in school. Its one thing when a crazy middle aged person like Lynn Ann worships Eric, but these teens may be going through the same kind of issues E/D were when they committed the shooting. IMO that alone puts them at a higher risk of pulling a copycat shooting. The fact that they're teenagers (especially the ones in "love" with them") they don't always have the capacity to listen to reason or logic. Although I wasnt "into" Columbine when I was in highschool I most certainly received my fair share of bullying. I don't doubt for a second that I'd have found some solace in the Columbine massacre because of the "revenge" angle. That's just a product of the typical reactionary thinking teenagers experience. When you feel alienated and misunderstood its easy to get wrapped up in that kind of mindset.

I agree. I hope they don't fall out of line and groom themselves to be cold or cause harm and justify their actions using the name of two dead guys, or in honour of Eric & Dylan, because of their love for them. I always think to myself at the end of the day, if they're feeling themselves over the boys, living their life somehow through them or talking to them in their sleep whatsoever - go ahead. Do you girl. or guy (cause maybe there are male "fans" too IDK I don't discriminate). BUT, when you go attacking someone else who is reasonably telling you that what you are dreaming and sharing about is borderline creepy, worrying, and making them feel like THEY are in the wrong for saying the right thing then you have just exposed yourself as problematic, and you need to log off for awhile.

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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeThu Aug 04, 2016 7:45 pm

By the way what I mean by attack is not when delusional fans of the boys become harmful and commit a shooting, what I mean is when they retaliate and bully those who confront them of their delusions and romanticision.

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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeThu Aug 04, 2016 8:08 pm

Okay so most of the Tumblr users I see that post the "romantic" stuff are fully aware of the crime that Eric and Dylan committed and don't excuse them. A lot of the people that sympathize with Eric and Dylan sympathize with their feelings of depression or anger, but DO NOT in any way want to commit any act of revenge. Tbh, I am one of those people.
I guess we can see ourselves in Eric and Dylan and (almost in a motherly way) want to love them and protect them. If we could go back and stop them from killing all those kids and themselves, we would. And because so many of us are teenagers, OF COURSE we are gonna fantasize about them. We all do it with movie stars, musicians, athletes, the popular guy at school, fictional characters, and other people that we don't actually know. I really think it's just a human thing to do, especially among teenage girls, and in this case, we fantasize about two boys about our age, perhaps with similar mental and social problems, who also killed people. Maybe that sounds crazy to other people, but as an 18 year old girl who has fantasized (both in a friendly context and ugh...more...) myself with KPop stars, 1 Direction, and many more guys, it honestly doesn't sound all that crazy.
A lot of us on Tumblr do "attack" people who confront us, but most of the people who confront us do so in a derogatory, hateful way. They call us "sick" or "freaks" and just like generally harass us. And most of the time these people aren't even in the "Columbine community" or "True Crime community;" they just ran across something we posted and flipped out at the thought of sympathizing with killers. Honestly, if it makes us happy and we aren't hurting ourself or others, I don't see what the big problem is. Most of us are sane people who can separate reality from fantasy and can reply in a civl manner, but remember that those who are civl and respectful rarely get any attention or notes. The more extreme people will always get the spotlight.
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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeThu Aug 04, 2016 8:21 pm

doomsdaydream wrote:
A lot of us on Tumblr do "attack" people who confront us, but most of the people who confront us do so in a derogatory, hateful way. They call us "sick" or "freaks" and just like generally harass us. And most of the time these people aren't even in the "Columbine community" or "True Crime community;" they just ran across something we posted and flipped out at the thought of sympathizing with killers. Honestly, if it makes us happy and we aren't hurting ourself or others, I don't see what the big problem is. Most of us are sane people who can separate reality from fantasy and can reply in a civl manner, but remember that those who are civl and respectful rarely get any attention or notes. The more extreme people will always get the spotlight.

It's not a problem how you all feel or do with yourselves, not at all to me. I really don't want to be contradictory here. Of course there's a line for it but yet even if gets crossed, it's every person's business and I literally cannot stop them from doing it. The only thing I have a issue with is these kids retaliating in the most childish and un-civil manner when confronted by it. Be it outsiders or fellow people in the community. At the end of the day, in the topic of fantasies or romanticising the boys, what if they end up offending the wrong person? Friends or relatives of actual victims or survivors on the net? And then there they are mindlessly defending their erotica and personally attacking a random person who calls them out on it?

My bottomline is, get a grip.

p.s and to be honest though, like the root of it, what you're into are actual killers, not popstars. They killed people. So it should be no surprise these people get called Freaks. Initially though. If you know how to separate, good for you all. But I'm just saying, it's not wrong if people are creeped out by it.

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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeThu Aug 04, 2016 8:50 pm

Oh yeah I totally understand it's not everyone's cup of tea, so I'm not surprised that people are confused or turned off by it, but rather than steering clear of it, saying like, "Hey, that's not cool," or providing good reasons like you did (i.e. offending victim's families), we get told to kill ourselves or other horrible things. Not to like guilt trip you or anything, but it does happen regularly. Yet despite that, the number of civil responses to this hate greatly outnumbers the childish ones, I can promise you that.
Okay, so look at it this way: When some daddy/little girl fetish pops up on my dash, I gasp and quickly scroll past. Sometimes I'll even read what they have to say, but move on as it's not my thing. I don't message them saying they're sick and pedophiles because I know most of them only take part in that fetish if it's between two consenting adults. There are so many good, valid reasons I could give as to why it's wrong, like that it might offend children that were victims of sexual abuse as children, but, again, since I know most of them don't want to hurt anybody and are just enjoying themselves in their little internet niche, it really isn't a problem.
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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeThu Aug 04, 2016 9:00 pm

doomsdaydream wrote:
Oh yeah I totally understand it's not everyone's cup of tea, so I'm not surprised that people are confused or turned off by it, but rather than steering clear of it, saying like, "Hey, that's not cool," or providing good reasons like you did (i.e. offending victim's families), we get told to kill ourselves or other horrible things. Not to like guilt trip you or anything, but it does happen regularly. Yet despite that, the number of civil responses to this hate greatly outnumbers the childish ones, I can promise you that.
Okay, so look at it this way: When some daddy/little girl fetish pops up on my dash, I gasp and quickly scroll past. Sometimes I'll even read what they have to say, but move on as it's not my thing. I don't message them saying they're sick and pedophiles because I know most of them only take part in that fetish if it's between two consenting adults. There are so many good, valid reasons I could give as to why it's wrong, like that it might offend children that were victims of sexual abuse as children, but, again, since I know most of them don't want to hurt anybody and are just enjoying themselves in their little internet niche, it really isn't a problem.

Makes sense. And I totally get where you're coming from, very eloquently put. I just happened to witness old-school online bullying and I was flabbergasted. and just to defend something like indulging into a romanticising killers as a hobby honestly is a pretty tough one. Hahah, like you said especially to outsiders or people who aren't willing to have an open mind. Unfortunately, there's a couple of people who don't explain themselves nicely or reasonably. Why a girl gotta get called a b***h for it? Sigh.

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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeFri Aug 05, 2016 8:29 am

There is a reason this is really the only Columbine community I visit. Besides YT but I don't read the comments there. I don't visit tumblr or any other site that may have this kind of information. Simply because it is not really in my mind to care. If these people are not hurting anyone with their thoughts who cares what they think?

Is it weird to dream about them and fantasize about them? Perhaps to some people, but it doesn't affect my life at all. It doesn't hurt them or anyone else for them to think that way. Live and let live I say. And when provoked who doesn't attack? They feel their feelings are just as valid as anyone else's. And they are right. It isn't my place to tell them they are wrong or gross.


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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeFri Aug 05, 2016 8:52 am

Lizpuff wrote:
There is a reason this is really the only Columbine community I visit.  Besides YT but I don't read the comments there.  I don't visit tumblr or any other site that may have this kind of information.  Simply because it is not really in my mind to care.  If these people are not hurting anyone with their thoughts who cares what they think?  

Is it weird to dream about them and fantasize about them?  Perhaps to some people, but it doesn't affect my life at all.  It doesn't hurt them or anyone else for them to think that way.  Live and let live I say.  And when provoked who doesn't attack?  They feel their feelings are just as valid as anyone else's.  And they are right.  It isn't my place to tell them they are wrong or gross.  

I like your post and I agree. When I started reading about Columbine I chose to join this forum instead of other communities because it seems a much better fit for my preferences but I wouldn't try to stop anyone else from doing it and I don't really care. I figure that if it's not something you like, it's pretty easy to avoid.
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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeFri Aug 05, 2016 9:32 am

Sure, they'd Attack cause they get defensive of their own business. What I'm going about is that the way they go about the attacking is very telling of who they are, I guess. I guess it helps make it easier to divide who to stay away from. It'd be pretty embarrassing if they lashed out at somebody who knew a victim or knew the boys.

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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeFri Aug 05, 2016 10:03 am

ultraviolencelv wrote:
Sure, they'd Attack cause they get defensive of their own business. What I'm going about is that the way they go about the attacking is very telling of who they are, I guess. I guess it helps make it easier to divide who to stay away from. It'd be pretty embarrassing if they lashed out at somebody who knew a victim or knew the boys.

Well you gotta remember you are trying to argue with teenagers. You would have better luck arguing with a 5 year old. Teenagers feel the need to be right and will take all the low blows to get there.

Sometimes I feel like you could take me at 28 and plop me back in highschool and I would fit. Other times I see highschool kids and am like OMFG wtf is wrong with kids nowadays...Get my a wheelchair!!
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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeFri Aug 05, 2016 4:30 pm

I wrote a really thought out response to this thread yesterday but something happened with my connection and I lost it. So this response is gonna be "meh" in comparison I'm sure.

But basically there are people like this for everything that has a following (and by following I mean it has fangirls/guys). It's kinda like when people get obsessed with celebrities, and some people just take it to delusional levels and you can't reason with them. It's just shame that there are so many extreme types that they're more well known than the rest of us and, they practically represent the whole community. And as a result you get "bad publicity" like Onision's video, where the whole true crime community gets mocked, bashed and frowned upon. Then we all look like a bunch of murder condoning groupies and when someone in your personal life finds out you're interested in this kinda stuff you get negatively judged for it. That's the part I don't like, and that's really the biggest thing that bothers me about the extreme fangirls. When you don't behave like that but get labeled as one of them b/c you happen to have similar interests (even of you like totally different aspects of the shared interest).

I Personally avoid sites like tumbler b/c in my experience most of it is way too fangirly for me. I like it here where we can have mature conversations and everyone can share their opinions, theories, and any other info. Plus I haven't run into any drama here.
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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeSat Aug 06, 2016 2:25 am

Kiwik wrote:
I Personally avoid sites like tumbler b/c in my experience most of it is way too fangirly for me. I like it here where we can have mature conversations and everyone can share their opinions, theories, and any other info. Plus I haven't run into any drama here.

Its just so ridiculous that there's drama within a community dedicated to a mass shooting. I mean the fact that "Columbiners" are a thing is ridiculous in itself, but the fact that there's drama is even more so. Why does it matter who is cuter, or who the better kisser would have been? These two child killers have been dead for 17 years now. These fangirls dont seem to understand that E/D would have killed them that day too. It can get really morbid on tumblr and that kind of behavior is the only thing that's ever made me feel weird about my interest in Columbine. I really hate to think that I'd be lumped into the same category as the attention seeking (and always edgey) fangirls.
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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeSat Aug 06, 2016 4:02 am

doomsdaydream wrote:
Okay so most of the Tumblr users I see that post the "romantic" stuff are fully aware of the crime that Eric and Dylan committed and don't excuse them. A lot of the people that sympathize with Eric and Dylan sympathize with their feelings of depression or anger, but DO NOT in any way want to commit any act of revenge. Tbh, I am one of those people.
I guess we can see ourselves in Eric and Dylan and (almost in a motherly way) want to love them and protect them. If we could go back and stop them from killing all those kids and themselves, we would. And because so many of us are teenagers, OF COURSE we are gonna fantasize about them. We all do it with movie stars, musicians, athletes, the popular guy at school, fictional characters, and other people that we don't actually know. I really think it's just a human thing to do, especially among teenage girls, and in this case, we fantasize about two boys about our age, perhaps with similar mental and social problems, who also killed people. Maybe that sounds crazy to other people, but as an 18 year old girl who has fantasized (both in a friendly context and ugh...more...) myself with KPop stars, 1 Direction, and many more guys, it honestly doesn't sound all that crazy.
A lot of us on Tumblr do "attack" people who confront us, but most of the people who confront us do so in a derogatory, hateful way. They call us "sick" or "freaks" and just like generally harass us. And most of the time these people aren't even in the "Columbine community" or "True Crime community;" they just ran across something we posted and flipped out at the thought of sympathizing with killers. Honestly, if it makes us happy and we aren't hurting ourself or others, I don't see what the big problem is. Most of us are sane people who can separate reality from fantasy and can reply in a civl manner, but remember that those who are civl and respectful rarely get any attention or notes. The more extreme people will always get the spotlight.

Beautifully written.I have said the same thing many times before.
Often Columbiners are minding their own business, not bothering anyone, not trying to get anyone to accept our beliefs on the boys when we are attacked often viciously out of nowhere.And that's often seen as okay because we are the minority viewpoint.

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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeSat Aug 06, 2016 4:08 am

Nirvana92 wrote:
Kiwik wrote:
I Personally avoid sites like tumbler b/c in my experience most of it is way too fangirly for me. I like it here where we can have mature conversations and everyone can share their opinions, theories, and any other info. Plus I haven't run into any drama here.

Its just so ridiculous that there's drama within a community dedicated to a mass shooting. I mean the fact that "Columbiners" are a thing is ridiculous in itself, but the fact that there's drama is even more so. Why does it matter who is cuter, or who the better kisser would have been? These two child killers have been dead for 17 years now. These fangirls dont seem to understand that E/D would have killed them that day too. It can get really morbid on tumblr and that kind of behavior is the only thing that's ever made me feel weird about my interest in Columbine. I really hate to think that I'd be lumped into the same category as the attention seeking (and always edgey) fangirls.


There are and always have been male Columbiners too....

All the Columbiner name represents is a group of people in a subculture who feel a certain way towards E & D which is very sympathetically.This varies on the spectrum from simple sympathy to intense devotion.
I understand why people don't like that we exist but we do so why shouldn't we have a way to identify ourselves? A group identity even though many Columbiners don't know each other?
I am one who appreciates that group identity very much.


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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeSat Aug 06, 2016 5:07 am

PaintItBlack wrote:
Nirvana92 wrote:
Kiwik wrote:
I Personally avoid sites like tumbler b/c in my experience most of it is way too fangirly for me. I like it here where we can have mature conversations and everyone can share their opinions, theories, and any other info. Plus I haven't run into any drama here.

Its just so ridiculous that there's drama within a community dedicated to a mass shooting. I mean the fact that "Columbiners" are a thing is ridiculous in itself, but the fact that there's drama is even more so. Why does it matter who is cuter, or who the better kisser would have been? These two child killers have been dead for 17 years now. These fangirls dont seem to understand that E/D would have killed them that day too. It can get really morbid on tumblr and that kind of behavior is the only thing that's ever made me feel weird about my interest in Columbine. I really hate to think that I'd be lumped into the same category as the attention seeking (and always edgey) fangirls.


There are and always have been male Columbiners too....

All the Columbiner name represents is a group of people in a subculture who feel a certain way towards E & D which is very sympathetically.This varies on the spectrum from simple sympathy to intense devotion.
I understand why people don't like that we exist but we do so why shouldn't we have a way to identify ourselves? A group identity even though many Columbiners don't know each other?
I am one who appreciates that group identity very much.


And its you're right to call yourselves that, just like its my right to think its juvenile. I'm very sympathetic to E/D like many people on this board. We're talking about the horrible mass murder of 12 children and 1 brave teacher though. Why isn't "I research Columbine" enough? Maybe its just me, but I'd feel very uncomfortable being called a "Columbiner" at 24 years old. Why do you even need a banner for this hobby to begin with?

I saw a fan made Columbine "vore" comic on reddit recently. Its one thing to be sympathetic towards E/D, but cute cartoons with word balloons that say "hurry up and pass me Dylan so we can go shoot up the school!" is an entirely different thing. Why would I want to be associated with that crap? I can come here and have adult discussions about a very adult topic.

I don't want you to think I'm attacking you because that not my intention. I recognize that at the end of the day were all interested in the same heinous crime. I just can't understand why anyone would want to be called a "Columbiner". Whether you realize it or not the title trivializes the crime. On top of that you're giving the murdering bastards the fan base they craved. Think about the parents of the children who died. They have to live knowing their children's murderers have a growing fan base, and that in some cases people feel more sympathy for E/D than their victims. Hell the Columbiner community has even had its share of copycats, which isn't surprising in the slightest. The whole thing just leaves a terrible taste in my mouth.
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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeSat Aug 06, 2016 10:53 am

I'm not even hating on the extreme devotion and the activities aligned it within these very, very specific Columbine group, I'm focusing on the retaliation ways they put out when called out for it. It's very childish, rude and very telling of who they are. But as I said above, these people are just exposing who they are to me and to people I have seen getting bullied online for it, and now I know who to stay away from. It's not even a reasonable thing to defend about honestly - romanticising killers. It's a battle. I'm not even saying I hate it, In a minor way I glamorise too!, so I don't, I'm just saying it's very hard to try to convince someone that a hobby such as that is okay and doesn't make you creepy.

These kids are just getting ruder and braver over the internet.

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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeSat Aug 06, 2016 8:44 pm

Nirvana92 wrote:
PaintItBlack wrote:
Nirvana92 wrote:
Kiwik wrote:
I Personally avoid sites like tumbler b/c in my experience most of it is way too fangirly for me. I like it here where we can have mature conversations and everyone can share their opinions, theories, and any other info. Plus I haven't run into any drama here.

Its just so ridiculous that there's drama within a community dedicated to a mass shooting. I mean the fact that "Columbiners" are a thing is ridiculous in itself, but the fact that there's drama is even more so. Why does it matter who is cuter, or who the better kisser would have been? These two child killers have been dead for 17 years now. These fangirls dont seem to understand that E/D would have killed them that day too. It can get really morbid on tumblr and that kind of behavior is the only thing that's ever made me feel weird about my interest in Columbine. I really hate to think that I'd be lumped into the same category as the attention seeking (and always edgey) fangirls.


There are and always have been male Columbiners too....

All the Columbiner name represents is a group of people in a subculture who feel a certain way towards E & D which is very sympathetically.This varies on the spectrum from simple sympathy to intense devotion.
I understand why people don't like that we exist but we do so why shouldn't we have a way to identify ourselves? A group identity even though many Columbiners don't know each other?
I am one who appreciates that group identity very much.


And its you're right to call yourselves that, just like its my right to think its juvenile. I'm very sympathetic to E/D like many people on this board. We're talking about the horrible mass murder of 12 children and 1 brave teacher though. Why isn't "I research Columbine" enough? Maybe its just me, but I'd feel very uncomfortable being called a "Columbiner" at 24 years old. Why do you even need a banner for this hobby to begin with?

I saw a fan made Columbine "vore" comic on reddit recently. Its one thing to be sympathetic towards E/D, but cute cartoons with word balloons that say "hurry up and pass me Dylan so we can go shoot up the school!" is an entirely different thing. Why would I want to be associated with that crap? I can come here and have adult discussions about a very adult topic.

I don't want you to think I'm attacking you because that not my intention. I recognize that at the end of the day were all interested in the same heinous crime. I just can't understand why anyone would want to be called a "Columbiner". Whether you realize it or not the title trivializes the crime. On top of that you're giving the murdering bastards the fan base they craved. Think about the parents of the children who died. They have to live knowing their children's murderers have a growing fan base, and that in some cases people feel more sympathy for E/D than their victims. Hell the Columbiner community has even had its share of copycats, which isn't surprising in the slightest. The whole thing just leaves a terrible taste in my mouth.

I don't feel attacked .It's just I'm by far the most active Columbiner here so when subjects like this come up,I feel a need to respond.Of course I don't approve of anything that actually condones the crime but I don't see much of that anymore.It was always in the minority but I saw more of that in the first 3 to 5 years .Of course I know it still exists but I think its only a tiny portion of the subculture.
I'm speaking honestly about what I have seen and still observe today.

I've explained here why I identify myself as a Columbiner and why I don't see the name as negative although I understand that others see it differently.

As far as the rest, I feel I can't fairly respond because I don't or never have considered this a hobby.
It's never been like that for me.

I also don't think of E &D as "murdering bastards" so I can't really speak to that either.

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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeSat Aug 06, 2016 8:52 pm

ultraviolencelv wrote:
I'm not even hating on the extreme devotion and the activities aligned it within these very, very specific Columbine group, I'm focusing on the retaliation ways they put out when called out for it. It's very childish, rude and very telling of who they are. But as I said above, these people are just exposing who they are to me and to people I have seen getting bullied online for it, and now I know who to stay away from. It's not even a reasonable thing to defend about honestly - romanticising killers. It's a battle. I'm not even saying I hate it, In a minor way I glamorise too!, so I don't, I'm just saying it's very hard to try to convince someone that a hobby such as that is okay and doesn't make you creepy.

These kids are just getting ruder and braver over the internet.


I think it depends on what form the criticism takes.
It's one thing to say "I don't agree with you." or "I don't think what you are doing is right."

It's another to say"You're a horrible person." "I hope you and your family die a painful death." "I hope you get shot." and so on.
I have seen that kind of criticism directed to Columbiners who are not saying or doing anything aggressive or mean.
They are just posting on their own blogs or talking among themselves.

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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeSat Aug 06, 2016 9:05 pm

PaintItBlack wrote:
I think it depends on what form the criticism takes.
It's one thing to say "I don't agree with you." or "I don't think what you are doing is right."

It's another to say"You're a horrible person." "I hope you and your family die a painful death." "I hope you get shot." and so on.
I have seen that kind of criticism directed to Columbiners who are not saying or doing anything aggressive or mean.
They are just posting on their own blogs or talking among themselves.

Well from the altercation I witnessed, it was the first form. It was eloquent, it was in a civil tone, and it said things that I happened to agree with at that point of time and I was glad the person shared the same sentiment that I did. It's not an order, it's not like saying Stop what you're doing but the post was almost like a form of PSA which everybody could see. The response to that from someone who was obviously a hardcore fan was the problem that not only I noticed. That individual was problematic, used vulgarities and took it personal. So I was cringed. Their hobby which is their hobby, their business as everyone says, had gotten way too deep for them that when someone makes a comment that differs from what they like they take to threats? It's childish, and didn't make them look good.

So I hope that the rest of avid Columbiners do not have the same exact attitude.

I mean can you imagine being called derogatory names from someone who is in love with a killer? It's making the person who's doing the calling out feel THEY'RE in the wrong when they are not at all. There's no wrong or right in a case like this but since when do groupies trample over a sensible outsider?

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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeSat Aug 06, 2016 9:17 pm

From the way I see it, I think the avid fan was offended that the calling out brought them back to reality, that their fantasies will only remain delusions. I think they were offended that it was almost like a wake up call from the calling out. Because end of the day, it is true, these are two dead boys, which they're trying to make something out of it in their head but it will go nowhere.


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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeSun Aug 07, 2016 12:18 am

The reality is that if E&D never committed the massacre and were just guys that happened to go to the same school as a lot of their followers/admirers/fangirls/whatever, these girls/guys most likely wouldn't have given them the time of day. They would have seen Eric as weird and Dylan as having greasy hair. Just like the real people who went to school with them and actually knew them in Real Life saw them.
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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeSun Aug 07, 2016 3:06 am

That's it... Copycats strive for the same sensation.

Thing is, how'd they know, they're dead. Unless there's an afterlife somewhere with an Internet connection where they can see these things, the reality ought to be reinforced within these fans once in awhile. I think that's what the calling out basically did and the columbiner was offended by It.

People even claiming to be able to talk to the afterlife and are convinced Eric and Dylan have spoken to them and claim they love them? Girl please. See the thing about these avid fans as much as it has nothing to do with me at all, but just a pet peeve, 999 of them go around "claiming" the boys, E is mine, D is mine and list reasons why they are and fight amongst each other. Gosh. Do some yoga.

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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeSun Aug 07, 2016 7:40 am

People do the same thing with dead celebrities. I've seen multiple people who claim River Phoenix channeled them from the afterlife and were highly defensive if anyone questioned their authenticity. I saw one person who had a blog dedicated to her contact with his spirit, and encouraged people to post questions for him that he would answer through her. This wasn't even a psychic medium, just some regular fan he supposedly "chose" to contact.  

A big problem is that dead people are so glorified in our society, particularly famous ones. And their admirers are usually desperate to feel connected to them and I guess some people just take it to this level. I don't know if they honestly believe they are in contact with the deceased spirits or if they're just doing it for attention, but I think that's taking it a little too far in my opinion. But trust me you'll find people like this anywhere there is something that has a fanbase.
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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeSun Aug 07, 2016 12:04 pm

Kiwik wrote:
The reality is that if E&D never committed the massacre and were just guys that happened to go to the same school as a lot of their followers/admirers/fangirls/whatever, these girls/guys most likely wouldn't have given them the time of day. They would have seen Eric as weird and Dylan as having greasy hair. Just like the real people who went to school with them and actually knew them in Real Life saw them.

YES! I couldnt agree more.
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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeSun Aug 07, 2016 3:54 pm

Honestly, I guess I do not like the kids for being into the boys for the wrong reason and being so aggressive about their nonexistent love.

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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeMon Aug 08, 2016 10:44 am

Kiwik wrote:
People do the same thing with dead celebrities. I've seen multiple people who claim River Phoenix channeled them from the afterlife and were highly defensive if anyone questioned their authenticity. I saw one person who had a blog dedicated to her contact with his spirit, and encouraged people to post questions for him that he would answer through her. This wasn't even a psychic medium, just some regular fan he supposedly "chose" to contact.  

A big problem is that dead people are so glorified in our society, particularly famous ones. And their admirers are usually desperate to feel connected to them and I guess some people just take it to this level. I don't know if they honestly believe they are in contact with the deceased spirits or if they're just doing it for attention, but I think that's taking it a little too far in my opinion. But trust me you'll find people like this anywhere there is something that has a fanbase.

This is very true. While it can be annoying to see others act in a way you feel is weird or incorrect at the end of the day I feel pretty meh about it.
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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeTue Aug 09, 2016 10:45 pm

I agree that all these longings that people have for the boys is never going to happen, but isn't it basically harmless? It kind of reminds me of all the people out there who are in love with celebrities.There are even web pages where people go to write stories or share their fantasies of them and there's almost no chance of these people's dreams coming true either, although I realize there is more of a chance there than with E &D.

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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeTue Aug 09, 2016 11:51 pm

I never said that it was harmful or not, I've just been stating from the start that they are very aggressive towards others who might be against it who said something, take to annoying personal threats while going all over the place with their annoying claim of a dead person that nobody except family and friends really knew.

That aside, I really wish people would stop comparing it to the love of celebrities. I have read that 1225 times. Honestly, really, it's not exactly the same. They are actual murderers. The context of the fangirling is the same, sure. But, it's whatever.

Not everybody is going to get where I'm coming from. Some have and that's good enough for me it's all I need.

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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeWed Aug 10, 2016 12:24 am

Actually them being aggressive and making personal threats can be harmful and could even be considered as bullying if they take it far enough.

I get how that behavior can be annoying. There's a level of immaturity about it that would get under my skin too. I have no problem with sympathizers, as I sympathize with E&D too, to a degree. It would probably be easier if the extreme sympathizers who fantasize about E&D realized that their fantasies are not really of the norm, and not to resort to harassing, threatening or becoming aggressive if someone questions or doesn't understand the level of their obsession. Although I try to consider the age group, as a lot of the ones who act like that are likely still teenagers.

And I think I might have been the one who kept bringing up the celebrity comparison! Embarassed
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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeWed Aug 10, 2016 12:32 am

I wasn't trying to compare them to celebrities on most levels. I said that because there are many people out there who feel the same way about a celebrity that girls feel about E &D and what they dream of is never going to happen for those people either.


The fangirling or whatever you'd like to call it doesn't bother me because it's always been a part of this subculture.
It started very early on.And I honestly do see it as harmless but I can understand why new people coming into this would be taken aback by it at least at first.


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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeWed Aug 10, 2016 1:54 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] nah babygirl it's not you. It's not even continuously you haha, literally everybody will make that statement and I've seen them.

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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeWed Aug 10, 2016 4:19 am

ultraviolencelv wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] nah babygirl it's not you. It's not even continuously you haha, literally everybody will make that statement and I've seen them.

Yeah the comparison to celebrity culture is a misguided one for sure. Celebrities are usually loved for the work they do. Actors and musicians create art which people connect with. There is no equivalent with E/D and I think people are stretching the definition of "sympathize" to defend unhealthy obsessions. You can sympathize with the boys because of what they went through or how they felt before the massacre. Its something different entirely to viciously defend the two while simultaneously acknowledging that they killed 13 innocent people. If someone is capable of grasping the concept behind the crime then they should know that E/D should not and cannot be defended. Plenty of people in this world have dealt with metal illness and bullying as a teen, and yet 99.99% of them refrain from shooting up their schools. And lets be honest the only thing that makes E/D so unique is the fact that they shot up their school. If these teenage girls want a depressed teenage boy there's plenty of them out there. Longing over two who have been dead for 17 years because they killed themselves after shooting up their school can't be healthy in the long run.
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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeWed Aug 10, 2016 8:48 am

ultraviolencelv wrote:
I never said that it was harmful or not, I've just been stating from the start that they are very aggressive towards others who might be against it who said something, take to annoying personal threats while going all over the place with their annoying claim of a dead person that nobody except family and friends really knew.

That aside, I really wish people would stop comparing it to the love of celebrities. I have read that 1225 times. Honestly, really, it's not exactly the same. They are actual murderers. The context of the fangirling is the same, sure. But, it's whatever.

Not everybody is going to get where I'm coming from. Some have and that's good enough for me it's all I need.

We all have our own interests. And there is always going to be at least one person out there that thinks that interest is gross, annoying, weird etc. If someone were to come at you and say wow...look at you...this xxxhobby of yours is sick and disgusting and you need to stop. Wouldn't you be angry/upset with that person?

I dont want anyone to tell me what I can and cannot be interested in. It is not their place. I don't agree with bullying or being harmful in this situation at all but I think these people being picked on and picked apart have every right to defend themselves.
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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeWed Aug 10, 2016 9:22 pm

The comparison to the obsession people have with celebrities is not a perfect one or maybe even a great one but its the only one I could think of that had any similarity IMO.

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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeWed Aug 10, 2016 9:58 pm

Okay. I have no ill will for everyone's thoughts on this at all, I appreciate everyone's. And all of you make sense. I'm not exactly sure if I got my point out right at all or maybe I had a hard time cause I have no idea how to phrase it eloquently.

I myself agree with the fact that when a person has an interest, be it whatever it is even if it's extremely gross or problematic, illegal or will send you the hell, the main point is that it is THEIR business, so despite having opinions or complaints, it doesn't matter. and trust me I know that very very well.

I'm not even trying to start a discussion about people being avid fans of Eric and Dylan here. What I was trying to bring up was their RETALIATION when someone brought up their problematic activities online. I personally witnessed a blogger that I like get attacked by someone extremely rude, and pretty soon more of the groupies joined in and riled up on her. And the irony is that they're trying to defend something that is actually not exactly of the norm, not 100% accepted by most people and on top of that personally attack her with vulgarities and threats, making the point she brought up in a civil way seem wrong. She wasn't wrong at all. and what's more gross than a bunch of girls or maybe even a guy, and I'm not sure if they're kids or adults, go together to put down someone who simply made an observation and brought them back down to reality that their interest in two dead murderers is pure fantasy and being aggressive towards others who remind them that isn't right.

Like how salty and bitter are these people that take their hobby almost too personally that when they get reminded it's pure delusion, they lash out on not an outsider, but someone part of the Columbine community who wasn't even being hateful?
And I'm not even trying to search for a solution on this either, cause I know there will never be one. I just wanted to talk about it and wonder if others have witnessed something like this. Am I not alone in this experience?

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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeWed Aug 10, 2016 10:50 pm

Who knows? Who cares? People are stupid. Lots of stupid people in the world who focus on dumb shit like this.
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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeWed Aug 10, 2016 10:56 pm

x5000x wrote:
Who knows? Who cares? People are stupid. Lots of stupid people in the world who focus on dumb shit like this.
Lol am I stupid for being bothered by it?

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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeThu Aug 11, 2016 12:20 am

Why spill things when you ain't gonna clean it up you know what I'm saying.

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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeThu Aug 11, 2016 12:27 am

ultraviolencelv wrote:
omeone who simply made an observation and brought them back down to reality

Why was it her business to do this though? I can't understand starting a conversation meant to make people feel ashamed of or uncomfortable about their emotional reactions, thereby assuming the role of a superior person and then complaining about the response. If she thinks the people are immature, what did she expect? It was intended to get a rise out of people and when she gets a rise out of them, she pretends not to understand why or gets offended? Pretty easy to solve that whole thing by not making public observations about other people in the first place.
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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeThu Aug 11, 2016 1:06 am

sscc wrote:
Why was it her business to do this though? I can't understand starting a conversation meant to make people feel ashamed of or uncomfortable about their emotional reactions, thereby assuming the role of a superior person and then complaining about the response. If she thinks the people are immature, what did she expect? It was intended to get a rise out of people and when she gets a rise out of them, she pretends not to understand why or gets offended? Pretty easy to solve that whole thing by not making public observations about other people in the first place.

You have a point.
Hm, I think you pretty much made the best closing argument on here really.

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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeThu Aug 11, 2016 7:21 am

This topic comes up always on this forum, and pretty much is never resolved.

Important to note both sides of the opinion, last time things got quite out of hand.

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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeThu Aug 11, 2016 8:29 am

sscc wrote:
ultraviolencelv wrote:
omeone who simply made an observation and brought them back down to reality

Why was it her business to do this though? I can't understand starting a conversation meant to make people feel ashamed of or uncomfortable about their emotional reactions, thereby assuming the role of a superior person and then complaining about the response. If she thinks the people are immature, what did she expect? It was intended to get a rise out of people and when she gets a rise out of them, she pretends not to understand why or gets offended? Pretty easy to solve that whole thing by not making public observations about other people in the first place.

I agree. When you poke a snake with a stick you should expect to be bitten.

Some of these people are not dealing with a full deck of cards. They may be young and defensive. Not all of course but when you decide to retaliate against someone like this it isn't right but should be expected at least to some extent.

Again part of the reason I only really hang out here
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Lizpuff

Lizpuff


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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeThu Aug 11, 2016 8:34 am

Oh and @Ultraviolence...I hope you don't feel like I was picking you apart. I didnt mean it that way!

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shades

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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeThu Aug 11, 2016 11:19 am

Lizpuff wrote:
Oh and @Ultraviolence...I hope you don't feel like I was picking you apart. I didnt mean it that way
nah you my girl it's totally good. You weren't making wrong points anyway.

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Magnaphoria

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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeThu Aug 11, 2016 2:53 pm

ultraviolencelv wrote:
go together to put down someone who simply made an observation and brought them back down to reality that their interest in two dead murderers is pure fantasy and being aggressive towards others who remind them that isn't right.

Like how salty and bitter are these people that take their hobby almost too personally that when they get reminded it's pure delusion.

Har har har, I post once in a blue moon but my jimmies have been rustled. Alright , they love and photoshop flowers on two dead mass murderers. Are they planning a shooting? Are they planning to hurt/bully someone? If the answer is no, then I can't see how you can call someone who's eavesdropping on these people telling them 'ew disgusting fagets" morally superior and righteous. You're asking for it , considering you're trying to argue with a bunch of teenagers on Tumblr.

Spank the gorilla and you'll get assblasted know what I'm sayin :^)

Edit: I'm not targetting YOU with this , it's a general statement.


Last edited by Magnaphoria on Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack   When Those Who Romanticise The Boys Attack Icon_minitimeThu Aug 11, 2016 3:23 pm

Why does it sound like everyone's gleeful she's getting attacked though O.0 Lol.

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