Bullying?

That's a very clear answer girl.

shades wrote:

That's a very clear answer girl.

It was hard for me to keep to my point because I feel a bit grey in this area at times. Sometimes when an "evil" person is killed I cheer a bit inside, but ultimately know that I feel that is wrong lol

I'll never be on the side of the bully. If the bully gets back from whom he constantly abused, I don't think I would be even a little bit sorry for him. That's his problem. But if it has affected other innocent people then it is a completely different situation.

Lizpuff wrote:

I don't think Evan Todd was as much of a bully as claimed.  Yes I think he probably was a jock and wearing a white hat, but if you just look at the guy he isn't really what Eric and Dylan claimed to hate.  He was overweight and not gorgeous by any means.  I think Dylan looked into his face and saw the fear and panic he wanted.  I dont think either Eric or Dylan really did recognize him as someone that "tortured" them at all simply because I don't think he did.  
He may have been around when bullying occurred and laughed about it or not tried to stop it but I doubt he did any real bullying himself.

Evan doesn't even look like a man, seriously involved in sports.

This discussion about Evan should actually be in the Evan Todd thread, which I voiced my opinions about Evan on. I agree with you guys that Evan shouldn't get so much of the hate at this point let alone at all. He's trying to make a difference now it seems.

For me, I wouldn't be on the bully's side either. I'm not gonna deny that I'm okay with certain killings either to be honest. It's all a dependable situation. So let's say Eric or Dylan went and killed someone who directly gave them hell. Let's say. It might be easier to digest the situation.
It's a tragedy cause they took out the utmost innocent ones and ironically the collateral damage is what made Columbine big and brought their stories out even more.

I'm not a bully, but what I am also not is a pushover who has ever abided by bullies' and their antics. I have been suspended in school and I have fought with these thugs, both for myself and those I care about. My experience, since kindergarten (I know, right?), has been that when I stand up to them, they back down. I've always been small and I'm a girl, but I've stood up to huuuuuge girls and guys alike. Sometimes, it's been a verbal confrontation, sometimes, physical. What I think, probably if you asked THEM, they would say that I bullied THEM! Pride, and all that, I suppose. Never, ever, ever have I intentionally went out of my way to be a bully or to hurt anyone. This was all in school. I am not advocating my actions, and remember, it was the 80's and 90's. I, along with a lot of other kids, were raised to "take care of business, if business is put on your doorstep", so to speak. Had I been a bully, certainly my parents would have found out in the relatively small place I grew up and I would have paid dearly. That was never my intent or interest, and in fact, was something I despised.

Now, I call people out on bad behavior. To this day, I can't stand back and allow someone perceived as "weak" to be harmed. But I do it with the beauty of language. I am, for the most part, around decent people now, but we are all grown, too.

shades wrote:

For me, I wouldn't be on the bully's side either. I'm not gonna deny that I'm okay with certain killings either to be honest. It's all a dependable situation. So let's say Eric or Dylan went and killed someone who directly gave them hell. Let's say. It might be easier to digest the situation.
It's a tragedy cause they took out the utmost innocent ones and ironically the collateral damage is what made Columbine big and brought their stories out even more.

Why would they kill innocent people though? why not kill the bullies even though I don't agree with that either. They should've kicked the bullies asses, that way all the anger would be out of their system.

That's why I hate Evan Todd, because he was one of the bullies.

bradt93 wrote:

shades wrote:

For me, I wouldn't be on the bully's side either. I'm not gonna deny that I'm okay with certain killings either to be honest. It's all a dependable situation. So let's say Eric or Dylan went and killed someone who directly gave them hell. Let's say. It might be easier to digest the situation.
It's a tragedy cause they took out the utmost innocent ones and ironically the collateral damage is what made Columbine big and brought their stories out even more.

Why would they kill innocent people though? why not kill the bullies even though I don't agree with that either. They should've kicked the bullies asses, that way all the anger would be out of their system.

To Eric everyone was a robot. NO ONE was innocent. Everyone deserved to die. To Dylan everyone was below him. He didn't care if they died.

Im not sure how else to phrase this. They wanted everyone to die.

Columbine was not about bullies. Not at all

True, but I hope the bullies have some sort of guilty conscience how they treated those 2 boys. If I was Sue Klebold, I would go up to Evan Todd and ask him, why did you bully my son?

Bullying was a part of it though, because I read people saying bullying was a big problem at that school back then.

bradt93 wrote:

True, but I hope the bullies have some sort of guilty conscience how they treated those 2 boys. If I was Sue Klebold, I would go up to Evan Todd and ask him, why did you bully my son?

I read an article on here that Lporter posted in which a bully at Columbine 15 years later stated that yes he regretted his actions. So probably some do.

Chances are all of them have moved on with their lives and don't think much of it besides an event that happened. Like they don't blame themselves. Eric and Dylan were nothing to them. Going on 20 years out now they probably still think nothing of them.


Eric talked like he wanted to teach people lessons. Elliot Rodger the same. Did they? Honestly not really

bradt93 wrote:

Bullying was a part of it though, because I read people saying bullying was a big problem at that school back then.

This is getting way off topic here, but did Bullying occur at Columbine? Yes. Did Eric and Dylan experience it? I am sure they did.

Was it what caused Columbine? No.



Don't be offended here, but all of your posts reflect your past and your experience with bullying. There are a lot of members trying to respond back to you and offer facts and other comments and you ignore it all based on the fact that you think there are kids who deserved to be killed by Eric and Dylan just because they bullied them.
It is starting to get old.

Lizpuff wrote:

bradt93 wrote:

True, but I hope the bullies have some sort of guilty conscience how they treated those 2 boys. If I was Sue Klebold, I would go up to Evan Todd and ask him, why did you bully my son?

I read an article on here that Lporter posted in which a bully at Columbine 15 years later stated that yes he regretted his actions.  So probably some do.

Chances are all of them have moved on with their lives and don't think much of it besides an event that happened.  Like they don't blame themselves.  Eric and Dylan were nothing to them.  Going on 20 years out now they probably still think nothing of them.


Eric talked like he wanted to teach people lessons.  Elliot Rodger the same.  Did they?  Honestly not really

How can they not think about if they caused the 2 guys to snap?

bradt93 wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

bradt93 wrote:

True, but I hope the bullies have some sort of guilty conscience how they treated those 2 boys. If I was Sue Klebold, I would go up to Evan Todd and ask him, why did you bully my son?

I read an article on here that Lporter posted in which a bully at Columbine 15 years later stated that yes he regretted his actions.  So probably some do.

Chances are all of them have moved on with their lives and don't think much of it besides an event that happened.  Like they don't blame themselves.  Eric and Dylan were nothing to them.  Going on 20 years out now they probably still think nothing of them.


Eric talked like he wanted to teach people lessons.  Elliot Rodger the same.  Did they?  Honestly not really

How can they not think about if they caused the 2 guys to snap?

Because they don't see themselves as the reason they snapped.

Lizpuff wrote:

bradt93 wrote:

Bullying was a part of it though, because I read people saying bullying was a big problem at that school back then.

This is getting way off topic here, but did Bullying occur at Columbine?  Yes.  Did Eric and Dylan experience it?  I am sure they did.  

Was it what caused Columbine?  No.



Don't be offended here, but all of your posts reflect your past and your experience with bullying.  There are a lot of members trying to respond back to you and offer facts and other comments and you ignore it all based on the fact that you think there are kids who deserved to be killed by Eric and Dylan just because they bullied them.  
It is starting to get old.

You don't need to get smart with me, yes based on my experience I take bullying personally and I'm not saying they deserve to be killed.

Lizpuff wrote:

bradt93 wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

bradt93 wrote:

True, but I hope the bullies have some sort of guilty conscience how they treated those 2 boys. If I was Sue Klebold, I would go up to Evan Todd and ask him, why did you bully my son?

I read an article on here that Lporter posted in which a bully at Columbine 15 years later stated that yes he regretted his actions.  So probably some do.

Chances are all of them have moved on with their lives and don't think much of it besides an event that happened.  Like they don't blame themselves.  Eric and Dylan were nothing to them.  Going on 20 years out now they probably still think nothing of them.


Eric talked like he wanted to teach people lessons.  Elliot Rodger the same.  Did they?  Honestly not really

How can they not think about if they caused the 2 guys to snap?

Because they don't see themselves as the reason they snapped.  

Well, they are a bunch of idiots.

By the way, their should be no personal attacks on this board.

bradt93 wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

bradt93 wrote:

True, but I hope the bullies have some sort of guilty conscience how they treated those 2 boys. If I was Sue Klebold, I would go up to Evan Todd and ask him, why did you bully my son?

I read an article on here that Lporter posted in which a bully at Columbine 15 years later stated that yes he regretted his actions.  So probably some do.

Chances are all of them have moved on with their lives and don't think much of it besides an event that happened.  Like they don't blame themselves.  Eric and Dylan were nothing to them.  Going on 20 years out now they probably still think nothing of them.


Eric talked like he wanted to teach people lessons.  Elliot Rodger the same.  Did they?  Honestly not really

How can they not think about if they caused the 2 guys to snap?

You probably bullied people in your school now that I think about it.

I am not attacking you. I am just wondering I guess if you see bullying as the main root cause of Columbine? If you do why? What facts other than the journals do you have to support that?

bradt93 wrote:

bradt93 wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

bradt93 wrote:

True, but I hope the bullies have some sort of guilty conscience how they treated those 2 boys. If I was Sue Klebold, I would go up to Evan Todd and ask him, why did you bully my son?

I read an article on here that Lporter posted in which a bully at Columbine 15 years later stated that yes he regretted his actions.  So probably some do.

Chances are all of them have moved on with their lives and don't think much of it besides an event that happened.  Like they don't blame themselves.  Eric and Dylan were nothing to them.  Going on 20 years out now they probably still think nothing of them.


Eric talked like he wanted to teach people lessons.  Elliot Rodger the same.  Did they?  Honestly not really

How can they not think about if they caused the 2 guys to snap?

You probably bullied people in your school now that I think about it.

LMAO no. I am the furthest thing from a bully. I was picked on myself. I had bullies and kids mock me day after day. But I am old enough now to not care and have moved on with my life.

@bradt83, our lovely Lizpuff is the furthest thing from a bully. This is a beautiful soul here who has a genuine interest in other's perspectives. Read some of her posts and you will see what an open minded, kind person she is. She has never said a bad thing to anyone here that I'm aware of. She isn't attacking you, I swear. I won't speak for her but I'm 36 and I can confirm that I don't care about high school or even college and I have moved on. Life is different now, what was important as a teenager and my early 20's, well, isn't now. It is lovely and infinitely more beautiful and pleasant. Please don't think I didn't have tragedies, trials, battles and angst. I absolutely did, but time fades the memories and they become a part of my past and has shaped me to who I am.

If they killed the bullies it's too easy. That's the thing they're cunning. Hell, they might've even purposely eradicated EVERYONE because it would make their point and make their crime more popular. By the time 4/20 came about, every person they see is just a moving object. It wasn't exactly a revenge plot where they seek out significant people.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I really need you to not attack people personally on this board. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and I have been on here for awhile now and she's the greatest. I suggest you read what people are trying to say to you and not keep a blind eye on the points made because of your own past angers.

And for probably the fifth time, Evan Todd didn't bully them. How come he's the only name that comes up around here? Oh because he went on interviews and talked to the media?

shades wrote:

And for probably the fifth time, Evan Todd didn't bully them. How come he's the only name that comes up around here? Oh because he went on interviews and talked to the media?

I think if I am not mistaken, That Evan once in an interview said he was a bully....(more of a general bully not a bully just to E&D)..... so perhaps that is a part of it too?

In any case, In reading the 11k there is a section where they contacted everyone they could on Eric and Dylan's HIT LISTS and most of them had no idea why they would be on that list. Some didn't even know who they were. Only a very select few were like "Yea I deserve to be on that list"....so it would seem to me that no one really thought they were the reason for columbine

That's it, their plan was to blow up *everyone* in the school; friends, bullies, acquaintances, teachers, special needs students, etc. They didn't discriminate. That's what makes this an interesting case, the whole "why" of it. Had they went after the bullies, we wouldn't be here almost 18 years later, unless to briefly mention it. That would have been easy and logical.

At that time in policing history, they could have unimpeded access to anywhere in the schoo, for hours we now know. If they wanted the "bullies", the "tormentors" I bet they knew exactly where to find them. They didn't, though. They chose a random, innocent cross section of the school's population and cowardly slaughtered them while they tried to hide, while they cried in terror and while they begged for their lives before being mocked and blown away. That's what I think about. I have seen horrors most people can't fathom at the hands of violent, uncaring humanity. It is ugly, believe that.

Lizpuff wrote:

In any case, In reading the 11k there is a section where they contacted everyone they could on Eric and Dylan's HIT LISTS and most of them had no idea why they would be on that list.  Some didn't even know who they were.  Only a very select few were like "Yea I deserve to be on that list"....so it would seem to me that no one really thought they were the reason for columbine

I don't think that all people honestly answered questions about why they are in the lists. Not all people have the courage to admit their deeds.

Love wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

In any case, In reading the 11k there is a section where they contacted everyone they could on Eric and Dylan's HIT LISTS and most of them had no idea why they would be on that list.  Some didn't even know who they were.  Only a very select few were like "Yea I deserve to be on that list"....so it would seem to me that no one really thought they were the reason for columbine

I don't think that all people honestly answered questions about why they are in the lists. Not all people have the courage to admit their deeds.

Probably to some extent true. But really 20 years out....if anyone still does feel guilty they need therapy most likely. Life moves on

Tomb wrote:

That's it, their plan was to blow up *everyone* in the school; friends, bullies, acquaintances, teachers, special needs students, etc. They didn't discriminate. That's what makes this an interesting case, the whole "why" of it. Had they went after the bullies, we wouldn't be here almost 18 years later, unless to briefly mention it. That would have been easy and logical.

At that time in policing history, they could have unimpeded access to anywhere in the schoo, for hours we now know. If they wanted the "bullies", the "tormentors" I bet they knew exactly where to find them. They didn't, though. They chose a random, innocent cross section of the school's population and cowardly slaughtered them while they tried to hide, while they cried in terror and while they begged for their lives before being mocked and blown away. That's what I think about. I have seen horrors most people can't fathom at the hands of violent, uncaring humanity. It is ugly, believe that.

Eric and Dylan knew how much time they have? Unlikely. They expected at any moment to deal with the police, so they were in a hurry. If they knew for almost 3 hours you can walk around the school I can assure you they wouldn't miss a chance to find people from the list.

The bottom line, what we have is hearsay on bullying of Eric and Dylan. Where is the proof? There are varying accounts, none any more reliable than the last. Most people in the 90's experienced some form of harassment. It's not right, but neither is it right today and it still occurs. I have never gotten the impression from them that they were bullied to death or even endured much worse than an average kid then. If they did...

WHY didn't they track down the bullies instead of a plot to blow up the entire school indiscriminately? Hours of unimpeded access and "armed to the teeth", I'm sure they knew where the "worst of the worst" were. Didn't we all in high school when someone was on your radar? They didn't. Period.

Lizpuff wrote:

Probably to some extent true.  But really 20 years out....if anyone still does feel guilty they need therapy most likely.  Life moves on

I do not believe in the conscience of a bully. Even less that it will be their torment in the last almost 20 years.

Sure they expected the police, but so what? They were gonna die anyway, so find those big bad bullies. If that was their intent, with their knowledge of the school, they could have entered close to where they needed to be. Are you going to tell me that those kids in the library were deserving of what happened? I see a lot of your postings and I challenge you to tell us what you think happened and why? Instead of attacking a point of view, lay yours out for us. Not being rude at all.

I think its easier to hate the killers myself due to the fact that many people go through some sort of bullying in their lives (in fact most of the bullies do to to some degree) that an act even as harsh and vindictive as bullying does not give anyone the right to kill.
Im staying on topic here for the purpose of the thread but I will add that I feel perhaps bullying may have made Eric and Dylan feel more ostricised and even played a part in their decision to do what they did but was it their sole motivator... I strongly doubt it
Now cant we all just get along and have a few brewskis

No, of course I don't think anyone deserved to die. I'm just trying to understand the motives. They hoped to blow up the school. All that they have done in the library was improvisation. I think they hated not only the bullies, but in General the very school system hierarchy. So why chase the bullies when you can blow up the school with all of these hateful children? Again I will explain that this is not what I think, I'm just trying to understand what they were thinking.

Acid84 wrote:

I think its easier to hate the killers myself due to the fact that many people go through some sort of bullying in their lives (in fact most of the bullies do to to some degree) that an act even as harsh and vindictive as bullying does not give anyone the right to kill.
Im staying on topic here for the purpose of the thread but I will add that I feel perhaps bullying may have made Eric and Dylan feel more ostricised and even played a part in their decision to do what they did but was it their sole motivator... I strongly doubt it
Now cant we all just get along and have a few brewskis  

Yep but you are buying !!! JK

Love wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

Probably to some extent true.  But really 20 years out....if anyone still does feel guilty they need therapy most likely.  Life moves on

I do not believe in the conscience of a bully. Even less that it will be their torment in the last almost 20 years.

Me either, I just don't get it. Why do bullies feel the need to put other people down? Everyone, I'm sorry for getting so personal on this topic and I don't mean to empathize with Dylan and Eric. Since middle school, I had to go through therapy, because of the bullying I got. I will go on with my life, but I will always have those bad memories. I just read stories about kids committing suicide, because of being bullied. geez, I feel like I'm going to weap thinking about it.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] What is this lunacy you speak of? Stay on topic?!? Isn't it a mandate to have someone criticize a different point of view while never sharing their own? *Clutching my pearls and feeling faint*

it's all good. I'm leaving this and a couple other threads that have spiraled into nonsense. I enjoy scholarly, intellectual thoughts and posts.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I am sorry, truly and utterly from the bottom of my heart for what you have went through. No one deserves that. Perhaps it's a generalization, but all the bullies I know growing up have had really bad, unsuccessful lives. Some are dead. Some are addicted. Some are chronically imprisoned. That is the reality in my life. I couldn't name one bully who is successful, doing well or even has a decent life.

Do the bullies sometimes suffer from bad home lives too?

bradt93 wrote:

Do the bullies sometimes suffer from bad home lives too?

Personally I think so. I think the people that bully are bullying because they feel low themselves. They have things they feel ashamed about or inadequate so they pick on others to try to make those people feel lower than them. Or to try to feel better than them. It is the wrong way to go about getting self esteem for sure, but not everyone has the tools needed to get thru hard times.

Hehe I can buy but you all have to journey to the uk
I get where your coming from [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] , facts and structured debate are why I am here also I must admit there are a few things I disagree with a number of people over on this board
Sometimes topics can get a tad heated when certain topics are perhaps close to the bone [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ( I went through a few things too) and I agree with you on a certain topic
Its just how we discuss things including substantiating claims with evidence and logical thought and discussion.

Would be a sad world if we all agreed on things

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] that is often the case. Overbearing, strict, negligent, adusive, etc. parents seem to be a common thread. I'm not making excuses but just saying what I've observed. They rise to the upper echelon in school (where they most often pique, I might add), not through people liking them or respecting them, but from fearing them.

I ran into a grade school bully a few years back. He was a drug addict and was in and out of prison. He's back in, now. Oh, he tried to be nice, but I remained aloof. What would I possibly say? "Sorry I took up for myself when you thought you were a tyrant and would pick on little girls?" Uh, no.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I get what you're saying. Make no mistake (not you, personally), I abbhor bullies. Always have, always will. I like a lively debate, but not insipid baiting. I told a dear friend today that when you start researching anything, you go in with your preconceived notions, but you must be willing to have those notions shattered by the reality of what you find. I don't speak on any topic lightly. If I don't know, then I qualify that. My life has been research, research and more research. Even now, on my deathbed (although, I'm determined to beat this), I continue to research. Knowledge is more powerful than anything.

Completely agree [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] the knowledge of potentially learning new things or considering other opinions regarding columbine bring me back time and time again.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] So....you know what I want to know? What you agree with me about. PM me if you prefer or maybe you don't want to share, but I'd sure like to know. Dang it! I said I was leaving these posts!

After thoroughly reading this entire thread, I have decided to unlock it since the only person who was actually insulting others and making personal attacks has already been banned. Thank you to everyone else who participated in this thread without giving into him (who I believe was either just being a troll or intentionally trying to get people to argue with him). To [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], I saw how he tried to call you out for being a bully. Everyone here knows that isn't true and I'm sorry he said that about you.

Every single post he made (over 100 posts) stems from him being bullied 25 years ago? That just seems a bit ridiculous. And Sue Klebold walking up to Evan Todd and asking him why he "bullied" Dylan? I honestly cannot take that seriously. I recall Evan hiding under a desk in the Library, already wounded from being shot at earlier and Dylan being the one standing over him, "bullying" him and threatening to kill him. How anyone can ignore that and paint Dylan as the victim, I'll never know.

I think we need to be careful before pointing fingers. I understand it that people are upset with Todd, but you are only hurting yourselves.


Columbine was a random shooting and failed bombing. As horrible as it was, its a miracle not more people were murdered. They planned to execute more people, which is sick when you think about it.