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 What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre?

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Screamingophelia
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MarmaladeSkies




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PostSubject: Re: What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre?   What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Aug 19, 2013 8:15 pm

lasttrain wrote:
The timeline will tell you something about the boys' state of mind and level of maturity.

Cafeteria 11:09, drive to Clement Park, gear up, back by 11:15.

If you know the school or the park you know this is a ridiculous estimate.  It would take twenty or thirty minutes to do this.  These children were not thinking clearly (thank God).

Isn't Clement Park right near the school? Mapquest says it's two minutes away. I'd say their estimate is fair. Two minutes there, two minutes to gear up, two minutes to drive back.

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PostSubject: Re: What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre?   What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Aug 19, 2013 8:36 pm

MarmaladeSkies wrote:
lasttrain wrote:
The timeline will tell you something about the boys' state of mind and level of maturity.

Cafeteria 11:09, drive to Clement Park, gear up, back by 11:15.

If you know the school or the park you know this is a ridiculous estimate.  It would take twenty or thirty minutes to do this.  These children were not thinking clearly (thank God).

Isn't Clement Park right near the school? Mapquest says it's two minutes away.  I'd say their estimate is fair. Two minutes there, two minutes to gear up, two minutes to drive back.

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Yep. Clement Park is literally in the schools backyard. Still, six minutes ain't a whole lot of time. That's pushing it; they'd really need to be hustling. Silly boys.
Especially, if you consider that based on witness testimony, they were loitering around the school earlier in the morning. The lack of focus in being on target with their morning tasks
seems like subconscious vacillation.
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PostSubject: Re: What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre?   What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Aug 19, 2013 8:49 pm

lasttrain wrote:
The timeline will tell you something about the boys' state of mind and level of maturity.

Cafeteria 11:09, drive to Clement Park, gear up, back by 11:15.

If you know the school or the park you know this is a ridiculous estimate.  It would take twenty or thirty minutes to do this.  These children were not thinking clearly (thank God).

Agreed^ I just mentioned this today on Tumblr. They were intelligent but lacked the maturity. They were naive when it came to their sketchy schedule and how they assumed everything would
just magically come together with no backup plan thought out. No testing of the bombs. Couldn't they have gone into the mountains to test or would it have attracted too much attention?
As you said though, thankfully they were not thinking clearly!
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lasttrain




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PostSubject: Re: What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre?   What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Aug 19, 2013 8:54 pm

The drive isn't the problem. I have been to Little League games at the park and I've driven from the park to the school a few times. You could drive back and forth many times in five minutes.

The problem is all the other stuff they planned to do. Let's suppose in their favor that 11:09 is when they planned to exit the cafeteria (not when they planned to begin carrying the bombs in).

Still, they have to walk back out to the parking lot (running would cause a scene), get in their cars, start them, navigate through a parking lot that would be seeing a lot of traffic from students leaving for lunch off-campus, "gear up" (I'm not sure exactly what they meant by this--a full "gear up" or merely a final one? If the former that would take several minutes by itself), then drive back and park, all in six minutes.

I'd say you could do this in fifteen if you were rushing and everything went perfectly.
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PostSubject: Re: What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre?   What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Aug 19, 2013 9:49 pm

lasttrain wrote:
The drive isn't the problem.  I have been to Little League games at the park and I've driven from the park to the school a few times.  You could drive back and forth many times in five minutes.

The problem is all the other stuff they planned to do.  Let's suppose in their favor that 11:09 is when they planned to exit the cafeteria (not when they planned to begin carrying the bombs in).

Still, they have to walk back out to the parking lot (running would cause a scene), get in their cars, start them, navigate through a parking lot that would be seeing a lot of traffic from students leaving for lunch off-campus, "gear up" (I'm not sure exactly what they meant by this--a full "gear up" or merely a final one? If the former that would take several minutes by itself), then drive back and park, all in six minutes.

I'd say you could do this in fifteen if you were rushing and everything went perfectly.
Exactly. In the video productions you can see how tight it is in the parking lot.  I can see how easy it would be for accidents to take place when people are rushing around in the lot.
I know Dylan, in his haste, almost hit Chad Laughlin.  They must have been a bit frazzled having dawdled part of the morning away and now were trying to meet the deadline.

As for "gear up", I think they had half way changed into their clothes over the course of the morning, so it was the very last bit of details.  They had their BDUs on but probably changed into their infamous t-shirts at Eric's after their last Basement Tape speech but left on their flannel shirts to conceal it.  When they went to do their final suit up, Eric peeled off his plaid flannel shirt and tossed it in the backseat. I recall he was wearing the flannel shirt at the video of the gas station where he was getting propane. In the interior photos of his car, you can see part of the plaid shirt.  They put their dusters on, single glove,  probably strapped all of their military web belts in place, ammo pouches to their legs. I think..velcro strips with flint attached to them - I recall reading this was innovative thing according to the police.  Put all their knives in place.   Vanessa Grimes mentioned seeing Dylan with a balacalva.  I wonder if they initially tried them out but decided masks were too obstructive, sweaty and annoying. Plus, they wanted people to see them.
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PostSubject: Re: What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre?   What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Aug 19, 2013 10:00 pm

Do we actually know whether they geared up at the park, or did they probably just do it at their cars?

Given how notorious this event is, and how thoroughly it was investigated, it is surprising we do not have a better understanding of the timeline.
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PostSubject: Re: What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre?   What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Aug 19, 2013 10:14 pm

InFiNiNcEX5 wrote:
lasttrain wrote:
The timeline will tell you something about the boys' state of mind and level of maturity.

Cafeteria 11:09, drive to Clement Park, gear up, back by 11:15.

If you know the school or the park you know this is a ridiculous estimate.  It would take twenty or thirty minutes to do this.  These children were not thinking clearly (thank God).

Agreed^  I just mentioned this today on Tumblr.  They were intelligent but lacked the maturity.  They were naive when it came to their sketchy schedule and how they assumed everything would
just magically come together with no backup plan thought out. No testing of the bombs. Couldn't they have gone into the mountains to test or would it have attracted too much attention?  
As you said though, thankfully they were not thinking clearly!
Agreed with the both of you. I am also thankful that they weren't thinking clearly and that the entire elaborate plan turned out to be a hazy etch-a-sketch of the real deal. I would personally time myself driving around (and doing all these things) to make sure it fit into the timeframe I'd thought out. I'd also have a plan B/C/D and contingency minutes in case I got held up, which probably makes it a very good thing that I'm not out to destroy the world. Laughing This whole thing just seems so lacklustre when you think that this is what they've been working up to for little over a year. I understand the problem with buying the propane early (those tanks kinda stick out Rolling Eyes ) but surely they could've found a remote place somewhere to test maybe a more minor version of the bombs they'd use on the day itself? All of the bomb failures have been put down to faulty wiring (why oh why did one of them still partially detonate?) and it does not make sense to me that the one thing a plan hinges on is the one thing that wasn't tested. Did they ever expect this crap to detonate or did they just close their eyes and make a wish or something? Look, it's a really good thing that none of this shit worked out for the boys but I would love to have a conversation on the how/what/why of planning with them all the same. (There are so, so many questions left to ask aside from these. It's just -- argh, I'm never going to figure this case out. Every time I think I've got something there's a new line of questions waiting in the wings. No )
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PostSubject: Re: What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre?   What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Aug 20, 2013 11:08 pm

InFiNiNcEX5 wrote:
lasttrain wrote:
The drive isn't the problem.  I have been to Little League games at the park and I've driven from the park to the school a few times.  You could drive back and forth many times in five minutes.

The problem is all the other stuff they planned to do.  Let's suppose in their favor that 11:09 is when they planned to exit the cafeteria (not when they planned to begin carrying the bombs in).

Still, they have to walk back out to the parking lot (running would cause a scene), get in their cars, start them, navigate through a parking lot that would be seeing a lot of traffic from students leaving for lunch off-campus, "gear up" (I'm not sure exactly what they meant by this--a full "gear up" or merely a final one? If the former that would take several minutes by itself), then drive back and park, all in six minutes.

I'd say you could do this in fifteen if you were rushing and everything went perfectly.
Exactly. In the video productions you can see how tight it is in the parking lot.  I can see how easy it would be for accidents to take place when people are rushing around in the lot.
I know Dylan, in his haste, almost hit Chad Laughlin.  They must have been a bit frazzled having dawdled part of the morning away and now were trying to meet the deadline.

As for "gear up", I think they had half way changed into their clothes over the course of the morning, so it was the very last bit of details.  They had their BDUs on but probably changed into their infamous t-shirts at Eric's after their last Basement Tape speech but left on their flannel shirts to conceal it.  When they went to do their final suit up, Eric peeled off his plaid flannel shirt and tossed it in the backseat.  I recall he was wearing the flannel shirt at the video of the gas station where he was getting propane. In the interior photos of his car, you can see part of the plaid shirt.  They put their dusters on, single glove,  probably strapped all of their military web belts in place, ammo pouches to their legs. I think..velcro strips with flint attached to them - I recall reading this was innovative thing according to the police.  Put all their knives in place.   Vanessa Grimes mentioned seeing Dylan with a balacalva.  I wonder if they initially tried them out but decided masks were too obstructive, sweaty and annoying. Plus, they wanted people to see them.
There was a ski mask found along with Eric's duster, so it's possible at some point that one of them was wearing a mask.
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PostSubject: Re: What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre?   What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Sep 09, 2013 4:13 am

MarmaladeSkies wrote:
Wasn't there speculation that the bombs could have been planted during Prom? And didn't they find bombs in places E & D supposedly never went to during the shooting?
Yes there was speculation that the bombs could have been placed during prom. Here is one such article by the Denver Post: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
which speculates the bombs coud have been placed during the afterprom party. We know Dylan was at prom and both Dylan and Eric were at After-Prom as well as many of their friends.
There was also similar speculation as mentioned within this thread and news article that they may have had keys to the school.
Interestingly Stefanie Haney mentions although she did not see E/D with any dufflebags at after-prom it would have been "relatively easy" for E/D or their associates to gain access to other parts of the school due to "the fact they had keys to other areas of the school." She said they had keys because they needed them for video production pg(835-6). LE appear to question several students about the possibility of E/D and their associates gaining access to the school during prom / after-prom. In my opinion if such questions were been asked perhaps the possibility that the bombs were placed in the school during this time frame was seriously considered.
On the map on pg(959) there is a comment regarding the "Door left unlocked during after-prom."

As far as bombs been placed elsewhere inside the school there were various media reports that implied doors inside the building had been rigged with explosives, designed to explode as a door was opened:
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Likewise I have come across other media reports suggesting bombs were found in multiple backpacks throughout the school as well as bombs been set up to cause a 'chain reaction' type explosion. I'm guessing these could just be media reports. But if anyone has anything official that would be interesting to read.
The following quote came from here: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
"There are backpacks with bombs in there everywhere,' Gov. Bill Owens said. 'The officers in there are convinced there had to be more people involved. There's just too much stuff in there."

It seems relevant to also mention that the maps on pg (924) pg(959) and pg(1079) state "Explosive devices found in three cars." Agency Reports indicate "process of empying 3rd car" at 21:48 on 4/20
pg(9226). Pg(9825) describes the search of a light blue Nissan where "numerous items of evidentiary value were collected... by members of the FBI ERT and CBI investigators." On pg(10767) there is information on Zach Hecklers car been towed as "evidence" from SW parking lot which is a blue Nissan with the same VIN and LP as the searched vehicle. Two additional vehicles belonging to associates of the suspects may have contained "some type of suspicious package." pg(7817)

thedragonrampant wrote:
(Can someone please tell me if I'm making shit up when I say that Dylan was hurrying Eric up by snapping his fingers during that tape? Could be even more 'proof' that they were running really late when they shot this. I've looked the transcripts up, but it doesn't indicate this even though I recall reading it somewhere..)
It was Dave Cullen was the one who suggested on the final tape: "Eric had one more thought but Dylan got restless and snapped his fingers. Eric flashed an angry look..."
This "finger snapping" is not reported in the 11k pg(10376 - 7) which Cullen himself has a copy of on his website, it also does not seem to be mentioned in many other transcripts that I have come across.

thedragonrampant wrote:
The official timeline for the shooting's a big mess anyway thanks to all the chaos and conflicting statements, so there's give or take a minute or so that could be 'off' in terms of timeline overall.
I completely agree with you, there are many time discrepancies throughout the shooting. The time stamps on the Texaco receipt and CCTV footage as mentioned in the OP for one.I always found the time discrepancy of Rachael Scotts lunch transaction interesting and relevant in this case.
The cash register records have Rachel Scott paying for her lunch at 11:32:36 pg(9864) It was reported that the cash register was ten minuets fast.
"I observed the clock to be ten minutes forward of the true time." pg(9846) this would still mean Rachel purchased her lunch at 11:22:36. If this was the case then how was she shot at 11:19? The last transaction on the cafeteria cash register is 11:36:21 minus ten minuets would be 11:26:21. According to the official timeline by 11:26 E/D had already shot and killed two students (Rachel and Danny) as well as wounded others. Dylan had gone up and down the steps and into the cafeteria, Deputy Gardiner had arrived on scene and exchanged gunfire with Eric, 911 had been called and E/D had entered the school and shots had been fired.But the whole time some students were still ordering and paying for their lunches.

thedragonrampant wrote:
Surely you'd testdrive your own schedule more than once to see if you could make it from place to place doing everything you needed to do in that time?
Surely you'd, I dunno, not buy an integral component of your bombs on the morning you're supposed to let them go off? Surely you'd take a little more time than this to actually build the bombs and make sure everything was wired together correctly? Surely you'd have your shit together more than this with such an important event in your life?
I can see where you are coming from here. This is just my opinion but i think they probably did test drive their schedule to some degree. They would know how long it would take them to drive to and from various locations and how long it would take them to gear up. They probably then just estimated how long it would take them to plant the cafeteria bombs (if they did) and go buy propane. They had test fired all of their weapons, had successfully detonated pipe bombs before and conducted tests. Eric particularly comes across like he had confidence in his bomb making skills. I think it's likely they were blinded by their own confidence and perceived knowledge, as far as we know there was no Plan B. I think they genuinely believed everything would work according to schedule.

lasttrain wrote:
The Jake Abodaca testimony is really intriguing to me?  Did Dylan walk in the cafeteria for just a second at around 11:17, perhaps to see if anything had ignited?
Jake Abodaca's statement is interesting if true. Although in his initial statement on 4/20 he mentions seeing three gunmen outside the school(wearing berets) none of whom he could identify in the school yearbook, but had seen around school pg(653 - 4). A week later in his second interview is when he mentions having seen Dylan entering the cafeteria just prior to 11:15. He description of Dylan is very accurate and he says he knew Dylan by sight pg(656). Chris Wisher who was with Abodaca also saw Dylan walk into the southeast entrance to the cafeteria from the parking lot and walk over to the vending machines. He didn't recall Klebold carrying anything pg(1263). Josh Chavez who was in this group did not see Dylan in the cafeteria but did identify him as a shooter outside pg(736 - 7). I'm wondering how many times Dylan actually entered the cafeteria that morning.

(Description says this is Jake Abodaca)
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Chris Wisher
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InFiNiNcEX5 wrote:

Yep. Clement Park is literally in the schools backyard.  Still, six minutes ain't a whole lot of time. That's pushing it; they'd really need to be hustling.
Yes as mentioned Clement Park is right next to the school. According to Google Maps it would take 4 minuets to drive from Clement Park to the School. I agree that even if they rushed this is still not allowing a huge amount of time to drive there and back and gear up as mentioned in the "plan" in Dylan's journal.

InFiNiNcEX5 wrote:
Couldn't they have gone into the mountains to test or would it have attracted too much attention?
I have also wondered from time to time why they did not test a larger bomb which they intended to use. I just think if they believed their bombs were capable creating a massive explosion then it's likely they wouldn't test them as you said because it could attract too much attention.

lasttrain wrote:
Given how notorious this event is, and how thoroughly it was investigated, it is surprising we do not have a better understanding of the timeline.
We have this timeline:
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But as you mention it is difficult to gain a better understanding of what actually happened not just during the shooting but also before.
Unfortunately there is nothing to describe what was going on the morning of 4/20 or within the months leading up.

MarmaladeSkies wrote:
There was a ski mask found along with Eric's duster, so it's possible at some point that one of them was wearing a mask.
The Ski Mask / Balaclava seems to be another piece of confusing evidence.
In this photograph: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
we can clearly see Erics coat, two gloves and a dark green ski mask. I'd be interested to know if these items were found exactly like this or were moved around to be photographed. Perhaps the gloves and mask were inside Eric's pocket. It's very interesting considering numerous witnesses reported seeing gunmen wearing some kind of mask, or appear to have been questioned about seeing gunmen in masks.
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PostSubject: Re: What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre?   What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Sep 09, 2013 9:24 pm

The coat, gloves, and mask were not found that way.

This is a picture before it was moved:

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PostSubject: Re: What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre?   What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Sep 10, 2013 12:33 am

lasttrain wrote:
The coat, gloves, and mask were not found that way.

This is a picture before it was moved:

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Ah yes, i have seen this picture before, thank you for posting.
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Several of the outside witnesses in the 11K say that they saw Eric kneeling behind the fence and using the chain links to steady his gun as he fired down to the area outside the commons.

From the original placement of the coat, it seems that he may have discarded it around this time, possibly because it was restricting his mobility.
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lasttrain wrote:
Several of the outside witnesses in the 11K say that they saw Eric kneeling behind the fence and using the chain links to steady his gun as he fired down to the area outside the commons.

From the original placement of the coat, it seems that he may have discarded it around this time, possibly because it was restricting his mobility.  
Yes I believe he removed his trench coat very early on in the shooting at the top of the stairs. The original picture of the coat certainly looks like it could have just been taken off and dumped on the ground, which of course it would have been. I highly doubt Eric would have taken the time to neatly lay his coat out on the ground. I should probably know this but i am wondering how close those gloves and mask were found to his coat, or if they were just inside his pocket then taken out to be photographed. I will have to check but i am sure i have seen another picture of the dark green looking mask elsewhere on it's own, unless of course it was just a close up shot i am thinking of.

I'll have to check some of the witness statements again about gunmen in masks although i think it will just be a case of some witnesses did see gunmen in masks and some did not. Of course it gets confusing if E or D did wear a mask and then discarded it early on. Although i'm not sure about this prospect.
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Why would they wear masks? That doesn't make any sense? Wasn't the point of everything their "grand master plan" why would they even bother with masks?

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areyoulistening wrote:
Why would they wear masks? That doesn't make any sense? Wasn't the point of everything their "grand master plan" why would they even bother with masks?
I agree, i don't understand why they would want to. I think they would want to be seen and recognized by as many people as possible.
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PostSubject: Re: What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre?   What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Sep 10, 2013 7:02 am

The Official Timeline has Harris taking off his trench coat at 11:19 dropping it at the top of the stairs and Klebold dropping his trench coat in the library between 11:29 - 11:36 just before Steven Curnow is shot.
As shown in lasttrain's post the picture of Eric's trench coat looks as it would have when he discarded it. There are several photographs in the El Paso Report Outside Crime Scene pictures that show the trench coat from different angles (#18, #20, #25, #26, #27). The other picture posted above shows the pair of gloves with dark green ski mask placed next to Eric's coat. It would seem these items were laid out together to be photographed because they were found together....
After a bit of digging i noticed the coat, gloves and mask are listed under the same evidence number (#2258) in the handwritten evidence recovery log. In the Misc column is written "black duster + Green Mask + gloves" pg(11327)which would suggest that these items were likely found inside Eric's pocket or possibly even under it. Interestingly Eric's coat is listed as evidence on pg(11639) as #2258 "black long jacket (Eric Harris)" with no mention of mask or gloves.

I find it interesting and relevant to this thread if we assume the gloves and mask did in fact belong to Eric and were found in his pocket or with his coat.
Would he have worn the gloves / mask recently or did he put them in his pocket just prior to the shooting and why? Did he wear them pre-shooting at any time? I would imagine gloves and a mask stuffed into a coat pocket would be kind of bulky and maybe restrictive?

There are witnesses who report seeing gunmen in masks (among other things) outside the school but also many witnesses that say they saw no masks. If I am not mistaken i also believe there were reports of masked gunmen inside the school also. I will check on this.

They are clearly wearing gloves in their suicide pictures (Eric on his right hand and Dylan on his left), would they have bothered to take a spare pair?

In my opinion i find the whole morning of 4/20 very confusing time wise right up until the first shots were supposedly fired. Just to go back over some of the previous posts in this thread, it baffles me that Mrs Klebold said Dylan left the house that morning at 5.15 pg(10523) and then we only have a very rough idea of what he was doing up until he is filming the last basement tape around 10:50 - 10:55, that's over a 5 hour gap.
The notes in Eric's planner seems more like the plan they would have followed that morning but then it is brought into question by the numerous witness sightings. Even then it's a case of figuring out which statements are true and which are not.
This is probably just me but i am very surprised Jeffco did not seem to show more of an interest in the boys activities leading up to the shooting, not just the morning of the shooting but the months prior.
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PostSubject: Re: What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre?   What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Nov 11, 2013 4:31 pm

Just another bit of information:

Witness Sarah Gillings was told by a student named Gabe Montoya...that a neighbor of his (Gabe's) named "Nathan" told him at 2:00p.m the day of the shooting that Corey DePooter was killed in the shooting, Nathan told Gabe he found out on news reports when no such reports were aired. Gabe also told her that he saw Dylan's black car and another tan sedan at Nathan's house the morning of the shooting.   pg(3142)

(Allegedly Nathan Dykeman had owned a tan sedan before changing cars a few weeks prior to 4/20)
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What's interesting about Corey DePooter is that out of all the students killed he's the only one that sort of gives off a jock-vibe, well at least to me anyway. Unluckily for him that he was the final fatality Sad
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PostSubject: Re: What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre?   What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Nov 11, 2013 9:20 pm

I think we have to use much speculation to have an idea on what occurred the morning of 4/20. According to the written schedule in Eric's agenda (written by Dylan), they planned to meet up at KS (King Soopers), a grocery store at 6:00 AM, and then meet up at Eric's home at 7:00 AM. Now, its very obvious that they did not follow this plan exactly, but it does indicate their general idea of what they were going to do. Eric and Dylan had a lot to accomplish before they could commit NBK. They still had to: buy most of their gas cans and flammable materials, possibly get more backpacks/duffel bags, fill up propane tanks and fill up all the gas tanks, load up their duffelbag/backpacks with various explosive, ammunition, matches ect. They would have to assemble both diversionary bombs, both cafateria bombs, and then both car bombs and then transfer all their equipment to their cars. Essentially, all of this would take a lot of time.

To get into their mentality, they both had run into close calls in having their intentions discovered; they most certainly did not want to attract attention. Testing 2"x6" pipebombs in the mountains is one thing, as the explosion is just a hyped up fire cracker, but testing BLEVE explosions with 20 lb propane tanks in the mountains would attract a lot of attention as they produce huge fireball and would possibly cause a Forrest fire. It would have been impractical to test these bombs before hand, and it would have been dangerous to build them and then store them in their homes as there was too risky a chance that their parents would discover them. Therefore, they would be forced to buy and assemble the components on the day of.

Based on everything they still had to do, it would make sense that Dylan would have left his home at 5:15 or 5:30 and meet up at KS's early. They had a lot to buy there so that probably took some time. It is important to note that the earliest sighting of Eric and Dylan was after 8 AM, about 3 hours after Dylan would have left. It is likely Eric and Dylan wanted to get everything prepared in the hours before the first initial sightings of them. While I personally want to discount many of the sightings such as them being inside the school hours before the shooting, them being in clement park etc. its still obvious they were driving around possibly "chilling" for a few hours. After they met at KS I would bet they filled up their personal duffel bags with their semi-automatics/shotguns and explosives and put them in their cars. They probably would have also assembled their diversionary bombs at this point. Their diversionary bombs used 16.4 oz propane tanks which Eric and Dylan had probably bought days if not weeks before NBK; in their basement tapes they mention having already bought some propane. It would have taken some time as hooking up the timer with the wires/battery to the fuses would have been somewhat time consuming. They may have even have dropped them off this early. So, at this point they *might* have already assembled their diversionary bombs, planted them, assembled their equipment and placed them in their cars.

After they got the last of their materials, they would have split up: Eric to buy propane (two receipts are time stamped at Conoco 8:36 and Texaco 9:12). Dylan's job of filling up all the gas cans (they had like 15-20 fuel tanks to fill for their cafateria bombs and car bombs plus the possibility that their incendiary devices may have fused gasoline) would have taken less time. At SOME point they would have had to assemble these bombs. This might have taken some time, but its also possible that the main component of the bombs (the timers) would have already been assembled. So after getting the gasoline and propane tanks, all they would have had to do was tape the cans and timer to the tanks and placed them in their respective bags. This would not have taken too much time, and may have made it possible for them to drive all over doing w/e the hell they were doing at all these locations.
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PostSubject: Re: What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre?   What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Nov 12, 2013 12:48 am

Here is my estimation of the events as they happened in the morning:

On Tuesday at 5:00 AM both Eric and Dylan got up as usual, which normally would have seen them getting ready to go to bowling class. They both put on clothing that was unrelated to NBK, Dylan left his house at 5:15, his parents were still in bed and he called out "bye" as he ran out the door, and wildly took off in his BMW. They would of then met up at the grocery store King Soopers. Here they proceded to buy a large quantity of gas tanks, possibly some more duffelbags, and lighter fluid and other flammable liquids. They would have bought any remaining items they needed. The two of them went to the bowling alley and were seen by multiple people in the parking lot at 7:15, but they left shortly after. They would then probably have met up at Eric's house and prepared for NBK in what i estimate to have been the following manner. They may have loaded up their personal explosives, firearms, and equipment into their personal backpacks/duffelbags and kept them in a quick to retrieve area. They would have loaded their ammunition into their pouches and kept their equipment handy. They probably would have also assembled their diversionary bombs at this point. They may have also assembled all their various alarm clocks at this point to be able to quickly assemble their main bombs. They would have then separated: eric to fill and buy the propane tanks and Dylan to fill the gasoline tanks. Eric filled up 2 propane tanks at Conoco for $79.16 at 8:36 AM and then filled another tank at Texaco at 9:12 for $52.39. Dylan filled up all the gas cans. Meanwhile Dylan showed up at school and was seen sitting in the cafeteria at 8:20 in the corner according to Brian Deidel. He was next seen by several girls independently who knew him driving out of the school parking lot, possibly filling up more fuel. He was seen in his black pants, boots, hat, and black shirt. Dylan at some point drove to Eric's house arriving at 9:00 while Eric was filling up the propane tanks. He pulls into the garage and sounds of broken glass was heard, possibly creating shrapnel. Within a few minutes he pulls back out of hte car and leaves. Dylan probably drove to Wendy's about this point and got some french fry's, according to his autopsy. From 10:05 to 10:20 the two of them were seen in various places around the school. This was probably their chill time, just relaxing around the area. They would have left and went back to Eric's home and assembled the cafeteria bombs and car bombs. Since they both had all the necessary components they would have quickly assembled the bombs with probably pre-made alarm clocks. They would have loaded up all their car bomb material and equipment. At about 10:50 they recorded their final goodbye video in Eric's home and they would have left at about this time and drove to the field to drop off their diversionary bombs. Then they immediately drove toward school.
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PostSubject: Re: What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre?   What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Nov 21, 2013 2:29 am

mattmatthew1337 wrote:
Here is my estimation of the events as they happened in the morning
Good post. I bet they had a lot of last-minute adjustments to their gear and fussing with the bombs. Their farewell message is very much on the fly and seems almost like an afterthought. I think that shows they didn't have a lot of spare time on the morning of the attack.
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PostSubject: Re: What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre?   What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Nov 21, 2013 3:37 am

mattmatthew1337 wrote:
Here is my estimation of the events as they happened in the morning:

On Tuesday at 5:00 AM both Eric and Dylan got up as usual, which normally would have seen them getting ready to go to bowling class. They both put on  clothing that was unrelated to NBK, Dylan left his house at 5:15, his parents were still in bed and he called out "bye" as he ran out the door, and wildly took off in his BMW. They would of then met up at the grocery store King Soopers. Here they proceded to buy a large quantity of gas tanks, possibly some more duffelbags, and lighter fluid and other flammable liquids. They would have bought any remaining items they needed. The two of them went to the bowling alley and were seen by multiple people in the parking lot at 7:15, but they left shortly after. They would then probably have met up at Eric's house and prepared for NBK in what i estimate to have been the following manner. They may have loaded up their personal explosives, firearms, and equipment into their personal backpacks/duffelbags and kept them in a quick to retrieve area. They would have loaded their ammunition into their pouches and kept their equipment handy. They probably would have also assembled their diversionary bombs at this point. They may have also assembled all their various alarm clocks at this point to be able to quickly assemble their main bombs. They would have then separated: eric to fill and buy the propane tanks and Dylan to fill the gasoline tanks. Eric filled up 2 propane tanks at Conoco for $79.16 at 8:36 AM and then filled another tank at Texaco at 9:12 for $52.39. Dylan filled up all the gas cans. Meanwhile Dylan showed up at school and was seen sitting in the cafeteria at 8:20 in the corner according to Brian Deidel. He was next seen by several girls independently who knew him driving out of the school parking lot, possibly filling up more fuel. He was seen in his black pants, boots, hat, and black shirt. Dylan at some point drove to Eric's house arriving at 9:00 while Eric was filling up the propane tanks. He pulls into the garage and sounds of broken glass was heard, possibly creating shrapnel. Within a few minutes he pulls back out of hte car and leaves. Dylan probably drove to Wendy's about this point and got some french fry's, according to his autopsy. From 10:05 to 10:20 the two of them were seen in various places around the school. This was probably their chill time, just relaxing around the area. They would have left and went back to Eric's home and assembled the cafeteria bombs and car bombs. Since they both had all the necessary components they would have quickly assembled the bombs with probably pre-made alarm clocks. They would have loaded up all their car bomb material and equipment. At about 10:50 they recorded their final goodbye video in Eric's home and they would have left at about this time and drove to the field to drop off their diversionary bombs. Then they immediately drove toward school.
Interesting stuff. I wonder why Chris Morris decided not to show up to bowling class that morning although he usually was there. Did E & D tell him they would not be present? Then, why would Nate be ready for class? Did they say ''hi'' to Nate while at the bowling place?

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PostSubject: Re: What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre?   What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Nov 21, 2013 10:46 am

JayJay wrote:
mattmatthew1337 wrote:
Here is my estimation of the events as they happened in the morning:

On Tuesday at 5:00 AM both Eric and Dylan got up as usual, which normally would have seen them getting ready to go to bowling class. They both put on  clothing that was unrelated to NBK, Dylan left his house at 5:15, his parents were still in bed and he called out "bye" as he ran out the door, and wildly took off in his BMW. They would of then met up at the grocery store King Soopers. Here they proceded to buy a large quantity of gas tanks, possibly some more duffelbags, and lighter fluid and other flammable liquids. They would have bought any remaining items they needed. The two of them went to the bowling alley and were seen by multiple people in the parking lot at 7:15, but they left shortly after. They would then probably have met up at Eric's house and prepared for NBK in what i estimate to have been the following manner. They may have loaded up their personal explosives, firearms, and equipment into their personal backpacks/duffelbags and kept them in a quick to retrieve area. They would have loaded their ammunition into their pouches and kept their equipment handy. They probably would have also assembled their diversionary bombs at this point. They may have also assembled all their various alarm clocks at this point to be able to quickly assemble their main bombs. They would have then separated: eric to fill and buy the propane tanks and Dylan to fill the gasoline tanks. Eric filled up 2 propane tanks at Conoco for $79.16 at 8:36 AM and then filled another tank at Texaco at 9:12 for $52.39. Dylan filled up all the gas cans. Meanwhile Dylan showed up at school and was seen sitting in the cafeteria at 8:20 in the corner according to Brian Deidel. He was next seen by several girls independently who knew him driving out of the school parking lot, possibly filling up more fuel. He was seen in his black pants, boots, hat, and black shirt. Dylan at some point drove to Eric's house arriving at 9:00 while Eric was filling up the propane tanks. He pulls into the garage and sounds of broken glass was heard, possibly creating shrapnel. Within a few minutes he pulls back out of hte car and leaves. Dylan probably drove to Wendy's about this point and got some french fry's, according to his autopsy. From 10:05 to 10:20 the two of them were seen in various places around the school. This was probably their chill time, just relaxing around the area. They would have left and went back to Eric's home and assembled the cafeteria bombs and car bombs. Since they both had all the necessary components they would have quickly assembled the bombs with probably pre-made alarm clocks. They would have loaded up all their car bomb material and equipment. At about 10:50 they recorded their final goodbye video in Eric's home and they would have left at about this time and drove to the field to drop off their diversionary bombs. Then they immediately drove toward school.
Interesting stuff. I wonder why Chris Morris decided not to show up to bowling class that morning although he usually was there. Did E & D tell him they would not be present? Then, why would Nate be ready for class? Did they say ''hi'' to Nate while at the bowling place?
I'm interested mattmatthew1337 where you got some of the information you posted from? Specifically that Dylan ate at Wendy's? I ask just because I don't recall any witnesses saying they saw Dylan at Wendy's?

JayJay Chris Morris was marked absent from the bowling class that morning. However the team who were due to bowl against Harris, Klebold, Morris and Dykeman on 4/20 all say Chris Morris and Nate Dykeman were there, just not Eric and Dylan. Carrie Sabey "specifically recalls Dykeman as well as Morris bowling that morning" pg(2150) She also mentions that Morris arrived late (after the teacher had taken attendance) and this could be the reason he was marked absent. Edward Olsen confirms Harris and Klebold did not show up for bowling class on 4/20. "The only ones present were Chris Morris and Nate Dykeman." pg(2086) Kristi Held who was also supposed to bowl against Eric and Dylan's team says she "specifically remembers Dykeman as well as Morris bowling that morning." pg(1922) Mike Paavilainen also confirms the presence of Morris and Dykeman pg(16417)
Interestingly Chris Morris says Eric was supposed to pick him up for bowling class on 4/20 at 5:00am but never showed up, he said he waited until 6:00am then made his own way there. pg(10802)

The fact Morris is marked absent from the register is very confusing, although it could just have been a simple mistake. Admittedly there are also a handful of students in bowling class who do not remember seeing Morris there. Although I feel like the team who were supposed to bowl against him are slightly more reliable witnesses as they would have been more likely to notice his absence. He also says himself that he was there although he did turn up late.

To address your second question we don't know if they did for a fact turn up at bowling that morning, it's all hearsay based on witness reports. As we discussed in this thread there are numerous witnesses that claim to have seen Eric and Dylan on 4/20 but in different places at the same time which is not possible. So it's a case of trying to figure out which statements are accurate and which are not. If they did turn up at the bowling class but didn't bowl it would be interesting to know why they went there.
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PostSubject: Re: What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre?   What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Nov 21, 2013 4:45 pm

You're right, queenfarook. It seems Chris was not on the register but was indeed bowling that morning. I'm reading that off the bowling classmates interviews in the ''Supplementary Reports'' now (pp.16, 395-16, 695), one of the reference you mentionned along with others.

It's a tough call to say if they were indeed in the parking of the bowling alley.  We now know they also may have been ordering fast food in Hawaian shirts (?!?)  Razz 

If they were at the bowling place, they may have been there for a short time leaving at around 7:15 as someone on this board mentionned. I was just wondering if they could have talked to Nate or someone else from the bowling class at that moment but it seems that it's not the case.

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JayJay wrote:
We now know they also may have been ordering fast food in Hawaian shirts (?!?)  Razz
Lol. That was only Dylan. Only Dylan went cruising around Burger King in his Hawaiian shirt. Eric didn't have one. Which is odd, because all their other clothing happened to match each other's that day. Maybe Eric did have a Hawaiian shirt, but nobody happened to see him in his?

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PostSubject: Re: What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre?   What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Nov 21, 2013 5:13 pm

It'd be hard for him to be seen as a badass killer in an Hawaiian shirt. Neutral  Might be that Eric, if he saw Dylan's exotic shirt, would not jump up and say ''Cool! I need one too!'' Smile

P.S I wouldn't dare play any Columbine trivia game with you, Jenn.

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PostSubject: Re: What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre?   What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Nov 21, 2013 5:20 pm

Well, I figured that since everything else they wore that day pretty much matched, including the flannel shirts they wore that morning and even their green boxer shorts, that I couldn't see one sporting his Hawaiian shirt while the other didn't.

I find the whole Hawaiian shirt thing humorous. I honestly cannot see Dylan riding around in a Hawaiian shirt, eating Burger King hours before the massacre. But who knows? Maybe he really did?!scratch 

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I think in some ways we all want the Hawaiian shirt sighting to be accurate Smile The thing is the person who claimed to have seen Dylan in his Hawaiian shirt worked at Blackjack Pizza with both Dylan and Eric. He seemed to be familiar with them both and recognized their cars. The witness was on foot when he says he saw Dylan "driving his B.M.W in a Hawaiian shirt" pg(10187) I'm not saying this is 100% accurate but it's such an odd thing to make up and Hawaiian shirts are pretty distinctive. I always find it so strange that Dylan had previously worn a Hawaiian shirt for Devon Adams "Lethal Luau" party so we know that he owned one Very Happy This is mentioned in Jeff Kass' book.

Somehow I just can't see Eric catching onto the idea of wearing a Hawaiian shirt. But it is a very odd coincidence that all their clothing matched on 4/20 aside from their t-shirts.
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queenfarooq wrote:
But it is a very odd coincidence that all their clothing matched on 4/20 aside from their t-shirts.
You think it was just a coincidence? I was under the impression that it was planned in advance. Sort of like ''Ok, I bought a pack of those boxers, take this one'', ''Take the right glove, I'll take the left one.'' and so on and so forth.

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JayJay wrote:
queenfarooq wrote:
But it is a very odd coincidence that all their clothing matched on 4/20 aside from their t-shirts.
You think it was just a coincidence? I was under the impression that it was planned in advance. Sort of like ''Ok, I bought a pack of those boxers, take this one'', ''Take the right glove, I'll take the left one.'' and so on and so forth.
I do believe the underwear was a coincidence yes.
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queenfarooq wrote:
JayJay wrote:
queenfarooq wrote:
But it is a very odd coincidence that all their clothing matched on 4/20 aside from their t-shirts.
You think it was just a coincidence? I was under the impression that it was planned in advance. Sort of like ''Ok, I bought a pack of those boxers, take this one'', ''Take the right glove, I'll take the left one.'' and so on and so forth.
I do believe the underwear was a coincidence yes.
You do? I don't think it was a coincidence. I think they did that on purpose too. Everything else they wore matched too (aside from the Hawaiian shirt), even the flannel shirts they wore that morning. I guess it could have been a coincidence though.

I know Dylan wore a hat during the massacre though and Eric didn't. Did Brooks Brown say he saw Eric that morning wearing a hat? Did Eric just ditch the hat at the last minute?

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Brooks said Eric wasn't wearing his hat and that was one of the first things that tipped him off something was wrong.

"That's when I noticed Eric wasn't wearing his hat. A pretty small detail, I suppose; he was wearing his usual attire of black pants and a white T-shirt, so everything else seemed normal. But Eric always wore his hat. Always." -- Brooks Brown, No Easy Answers, p.4.

I don't think their matching stuff was coincidental. These guys were joined at the hip in everything they did.
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gustopoet wrote:
Brooks said Eric wasn't wearing his hat and that was one of the first things that tipped him off something was wrong.

"That's when I noticed Eric wasn't wearing his hat. A pretty small detail, I suppose; he was wearing his usual attire of black pants and a white T-shirt, so everything else seemed normal. But Eric always wore his hat. Always." -- Brooks Brown, No Easy Answers, p.4.

I don't think their matching stuff was coincidental. These guys were joined at the hip in everything they did.
I knew Brooks had something about Eric's hat, but I couldn't remember if it was he was or wasn't wearing it. Thanks for that. Unfortunately I haven't read his book yet. I want to one day though.

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Jenn wrote:
queenfarooq wrote:
JayJay wrote:
queenfarooq wrote:
But it is a very odd coincidence that all their clothing matched on 4/20 aside from their t-shirts.
You think it was just a coincidence? I was under the impression that it was planned in advance. Sort of like ''Ok, I bought a pack of those boxers, take this one'', ''Take the right glove, I'll take the left one.'' and so on and so forth.
I do believe the underwear was a coincidence yes.
You do? I don't think it was a coincidence. I think they did that on purpose too. Everything else they wore matched too (aside from the Hawaiian shirt), even the flannel shirts they wore that morning. I guess it could have been a coincidence though.
Yeah I think the underwear was just a coincidence. Of course we don't really know for sure one way or the other if it was planned or not, but I just can't see them planning on wearing the same underwear. Obviously this is just my opinion, but I just don't think matching underwear is very "bad-ass" and i think the type of boxers they were said to be wearing would be quite a common style / pattern. Also the rest of their outfits weren't identical, their shirts were different and Eric didn't wear his hat.

Of course Eric could have worn his Hawaiian shirt in secret Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre?   What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 24, 2013 10:50 pm

queenfarooq wrote:
Jenn wrote:
queenfarooq wrote:
JayJay wrote:
queenfarooq wrote:
But it is a very odd coincidence that all their clothing matched on 4/20 aside from their t-shirts.
You think it was just a coincidence? I was under the impression that it was planned in advance. Sort of like ''Ok, I bought a pack of those boxers, take this one'', ''Take the right glove, I'll take the left one.'' and so on and so forth.
I do believe the underwear was a coincidence yes.
You do? I don't think it was a coincidence. I think they did that on purpose too. Everything else they wore matched too (aside from the Hawaiian shirt), even the flannel shirts they wore that morning. I guess it could have been a coincidence though.
Yeah I think the underwear was just a coincidence. Of course we don't really know for sure one way or the other if it was planned or not, but I just can't see them planning on wearing the same underwear. Obviously this is just my opinion, but I just don't think matching underwear is very "bad-ass" and i think the type of boxers they were said to be wearing would be quite a common style / pattern. Also the rest of their outfits weren't identical, their shirts were different and Eric didn't wear his hat.

Of course Eric could have worn his Hawaiian shirt in secret Very Happy
I think they were sporting their Hawaiian shirts together during their "chill" time. Dylan must have left his on to go grab a bite real quick at Burger King, came back and got changed to get ready to head over to the school. I think that is most likely what happened and why no one saw Eric in his.

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PostSubject: Re: What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre?   What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Nov 25, 2013 2:47 am

Jenn wrote:
Unfortunately I haven't read his book yet. I want to one day though.
Personally, I think it is an excellent book.
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PostSubject: Re: What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre?   What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Nov 25, 2013 8:15 am

Coming from considerable personal experience, I know that Burger King changed their fries in 1998. The texture became corrugated and fake, prompting me to drop Burger King and go back to McDonald's. Those fake plastic-like fries cannot possibly have left potato skins in D's stomach at autopsy. This is just gastrono-thanalogical science. Someone mentioned Wendy's fries. Wendy's fries are good.

However, I'm willing to believe he went in the drive-in wearing an Hawaiian shirt. That I can deal with.

(This is all tongue-in-cheek as I don't see how discussing Hawaiian shirts and French fries make one's life significantly better. I didn't mean to elevate the Columbine discussion with this post AT ALL ;)  )

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PostSubject: Re: What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre?   What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Nov 25, 2013 12:14 pm

But seriously Hawaiian shirts / Wendy's and Burger King aside:)  I know it is a little off topic but they must have eaten that morning, or i'd say it's very likely they did. So they either could have gone out and purchased food or just ate at Eric's house.
I am somewhat skeptical of this but the Klebold's said that Dylan told them on the Monday night 4/19 that he Eric and some friends went to dinner at the Outback restaurant. Dylan had said this was Eric's favorite restaurant and that he had coupons.  The Klebold's said Dylan left between 6 and 7 that evening then returned sometime later, he indicated he had eaten steak for dinner. pg(10514 - 5) I would imagine the steak likely came with something "potatoey." I have never come across any friends interviews who say they also went to Outback, only those who deny any knowledge of these dinner plans.
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PostSubject: Re: What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre?   What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Nov 25, 2013 6:14 pm

Did their bowels release when they died? It must have stunk to the highest heaven in that library.
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PostSubject: Re: What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre?   What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Jan 09, 2014 4:26 am

After reading the "War is War" fanfic ( a great amusement and laugh inducer if there ever was one) I can guess what the "chill" time was allotted for! Jk!
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PostSubject: Re: What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre?   What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Jan 09, 2014 4:29 am

Moseley wrote:
Did their bowels release when they died? It must have stunk to the highest heaven in that library.
No, that only happened to one person, not all of them and not Dylan and Eric.

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PostSubject: Re: What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre?   What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Jan 09, 2014 6:13 am

On the important topic of the underwear (!), I seem to remember the autopsies listing one as blue and the other boxer as green though I don't remember which boy wore what and I'm too lazy to go look. However, after thinking it was originally a coincidence, I tend to agree with gustopoet that it was not mere coincidence. Eric and Dylan probably (despite the height diference) had a similar waist size for boxers (medium, probably) and a two or three pack of boxers would have a couple different plaid colors, green and blue are the more common types. I would agree that like the single pair of gloves they shared, that the boxers were probably also noncoincidental. Hopefully though, this will not add any fuel to the "E/D were lovers" fire.
Unfortunately, I don't know of any Hawaiian shirts being sold in two-packs. ;)
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PostSubject: Re: What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre?   What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Oct 18, 2017 8:05 am

Remembering men's underwear choices in the late 90's I feel the underwear was an accident. There were not all that many choices and plaid was in fashion (thanks Nirvana!). I bet both boys owned multiple sets of plaid boxers and maybe even owned only those? It was either those, plain or those awful satin ones with daffy duck on them... ugh.
I have often wondered about the big propane bombs being carried into the commons. The duffle bags looked heavy and seemed to bounce against things when they bought them in to the commons. I also suspect that when the commons was full people banged/bumped into them or tripped over them (thinking they were bags of athletic equipment or something?) - maybe some of the wiring came loose? Or they were damaged in some way which stopped them going off, maybe?
I also agree that they had to buy them on the morning of, there was nowhere left to hide things and they would be dangerous to be caught with.
The broken glass may have been a Molotov which broke and may explain why the Harrises home stunk of petrol when investigators arrived?
My other thought was about Brooks and the "I like you now, go home" thing... I am beginning to doubt this happened at all. I think Brooks was way nosier than that and would have wanted to know what was going on if he ran into Eric, if he was sus on him skipping classes and the "it doesn't matter now" and other statements make me think he would have started asking uncomfortable questions instead of just leaving...
I am super curious about the cops total lack of wanting to know what the boys were up to in the days and weeks coming up to 4/20.
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PostSubject: Re: What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre?   What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Oct 18, 2017 8:41 am

A plaid shirt was found in Dylans car, but was a Hawaiian shirt found?

I take things that Brooks said with a huge grain of salt. I bet Eric had more important things to do (well I mean to him...) and Brooks was probably pestering him, because Eric was always so focused, never missing tests and they were friends again so he was like "Eric you're going to fail" and Eric needed him to stop talking to him so he could go about his business.

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PostSubject: Re: What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre?   What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Oct 18, 2017 3:35 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
A plaid shirt was found in Dylans car, but was a Hawaiian shirt found?

I take things that Brooks said with a huge grain of salt. I bet Eric had more important things to do (well I mean to him...) and Brooks was probably pestering him, because Eric was always so focused, never missing tests and they were friends again so he was like "Eric you're going to fail" and Eric needed him to stop talking to him so he could go about his business.

Not that I am aware of. I take the hawaiian shirt claim with a grain of salt but you never know!

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Cemetery Jones wrote:
I have often wondered about the big propane bombs being carried into the commons. The duffle bags looked heavy and seemed to bounce against things when they bought them in to the commons. I also suspect that when the commons was full people banged/bumped into them or tripped over them (thinking they were bags of athletic equipment or something?) - maybe some of the wiring came loose? Or they were damaged in some way which stopped them going off, maybe?


That is a very real possibility, although we all know that Eric had used methods of bomb making from a book filled with shitty instructions as well.

They also never tested them, likely because they thought it was to risky. In my opinion the propane bombs were very hastily thrown together and Eric just assumed they would work.
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PostSubject: Re: What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre?   What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Oct 19, 2017 1:11 am

NOTE: Eric/Dylan were influenced by their friends/co-workers about making their bombs/explosives.
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PostSubject: Re: What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre?   What were E/D doing on 4/20 pre-massacre? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Apr 20, 2019 10:46 pm

The notes about "only 6 minutes to Clement Park" should realize that by "11:09" Dylan obviously meant "before 11:10" (4th period, I think), not "exactly at 11:09 not before". The same for "11:18" for when to set the bombs meaning "after 11:17".
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