What if Eric and Dylan were jocks?

AZ20 wrote:

As teenage males who wanted to be viewed as "strong", E&D would want to downplay the bullying they were subjected to. It had to be humiliating...and make them feel ashamed. It probably also strengthened their bond.

We dont know wether they were bullied

Norwegian wrote:

AZ20 wrote:

As teenage males who wanted to be viewed as "strong", E&D would want to downplay the bullying they were subjected to. It had to be humiliating...and make them feel ashamed. It probably also strengthened their bond.

We dont know wether they were bullied

I think there is a strong case in support of bullying. Brooks Brown witnessed a car full of jocks throw a bottle at them in the smoker's pit, they were pelted with ketchup covered tampons, people who associated with them were ridiculed for it. It's all out there.

AZ20 wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

AZ20 wrote:

As teenage males who wanted to be viewed as "strong", E&D would want to downplay the bullying they were subjected to. It had to be humiliating...and make them feel ashamed. It probably also strengthened their bond.

We dont know wether they were bullied

I think there is a strong case in support of bullying. Brooks Brown witnessed a car full of jocks throw a bottle at them in the smoker's pit, they were pelted with ketchup covered tampons, people who associated with them were ridiculed for it. It's all out there.

Not entirely, and let me explain why.

First thing, yes, Brooks Brown claimed to have withnessed bullying up close. Yet, relying on one persons account doesnt necessarily cut it. There are several other friends of Eric and Dylan; Nathan, Zach, Robyn, Devon, Eric Veik, to name a few(but there are others as well). I havent looked at everyones statements and interviews, but lets look at the few Im aware of- Brooks, Robyn, Nate and Devon. Brooks suggests suggests throughout hes book that Dylan was bullied since Elementary school. Devon explained how Eric and Dylan recieved looks(yet, I always interpret this with cation, given Ive read that they used to be trouble makers aswell). Devon provided a statement where She said that she got slammed into a locker for talking to Dylan.


But if we look into other statements by Nate and Robyn, Nate suggested that Eric was the one being picked on and not Dylan. Robyn, on the other hand, argues that She had never seen them getting picked on.

What else is there? Frank Ochberg, the forensic psychiatrist that helped investigating the case says that 'in spite of views to the contrary, Eric and Dylan were not bullied'.

I think this leads us to the point Where theres likely not much of an answer.

Norwegian wrote:

AZ20 wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

AZ20 wrote:

As teenage males who wanted to be viewed as "strong", E&D would want to downplay the bullying they were subjected to. It had to be humiliating...and make them feel ashamed. It probably also strengthened their bond.

We dont know wether they were bullied

I think there is a strong case in support of bullying. Brooks Brown witnessed a car full of jocks throw a bottle at them in the smoker's pit, they were pelted with ketchup covered tampons, people who associated with them were ridiculed for it. It's all out there.

Not entirely, and let me explain why.

First thing, yes, Brooks Brown claimed to have withnessed bullying up close. Yet, relying on one persons account doesnt necessarily cut it. There are several other friends of Eric and Dylan; Nathan, Zach, Robyn, Devon, Eric Veik, to name a few(but there are others as well). I havent looked at everyones statements and interviews, but lets look at the few Im aware of- Brooks, Robyn, Nate and Devon. Brooks suggests suggests throughout hes book that Dylan was bullied since Elementary school. Devon explained how Eric and Dylan recieved looks(yet, I always interpret this with cation, given Ive read that they used to be trouble makers aswell). Devon provided a statement where She said that she got slammed into a locker for talking to Dylan.


But if we look into other statements by Nate and Robyn, Nate suggested that Eric was the one being picked on and not Dylan. Robyn, on the other hand, argues that She had never seen them getting picked on.

What else is there? Frank Ochberg, the forensic psychiatrist that helped investigating the case says that 'in spite of views to the contrary, Eric and Dylan were not bullied'.

I think this leads us to the point Where theres likely not much of an answer.

Yeah because a psychiatrist clearly went to Columbine High School. I'm going to pick his word over the people that actually knew Eric and Dylan, and were very close to them. Eric and Dylan were bullied, however Eric was definitely teased more than Dylan. We don't know the extent of the bullying, but after researching Columbine over 10 years I've come to the conclusion that a lot of the "bullied" stories that Eric and Dylan received weren't really them, and others would get them confused with the TCM, who actually had members who were physically abused by jocks throughout high school. I'm pretty sure at this point from what I've viewed they were teased, but no more than your average dork, or your average freshman


Bullying was a small factor in Columbine High School, but they were still bullied. However Eric and Dylan never had to pick up pennies from their noses. Eric and Dylan were never made to slide in the hallway by using lotion on the floor to make it slippery. The Tampon Ketchup Incident was a complete myth that people continue to confuse with everyday. There were separate incidents. The whole thing with Rocky and his goons telling Eric and Dylan "to kiss" is a lie. That was actually towards Eric Dutro and Joe Stair, who would purposely do things in front of Rocky and his goons, because they (Rocky and co) were very homophobic. The whole "ketchup incident" I believe was a food fight and the tampons thrown was at the TCM.

A lot of the mystic BS lies continue that surround Columbine, but it is what it is. People believe what they want, and actually believed Eric and Dylan were tormented everyday. You have kids who are actual rejects at their school who look up to those two clowns, who by the way, I am positive Eric and Dylan would've bullied them too, since they bullied others themselves.

Eric and Dylan weren't loners either. Brooks Brown and his continued exaggeration bullshit is just that...bullshit. They had their own group of friends. They weren't popular, but they weren't the "losers of the losers"; "lowest of the low". They had way more friends than killers like Adam Lanza, or Elliot Rodger

Eric and Dylan committed the shooting at Columbine High School for various different reasons such as bullying, hatred towards humanity, and infamy. Infamy is a huge one that isn't talked about enough here. These boys were recording their Basement Tapes for the world to see. They wanted copycats. They wanted to be famous, and wanted people to forever talk about them (they got their wish. They won). Eric wrote his entire journal for an audience, because he knew every scientist out there would try to "decipher" if he was truly a psychopath or not (He wasn't)

lol wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

AZ20 wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

AZ20 wrote:

As teenage males who wanted to be viewed as "strong", E&D would want to downplay the bullying they were subjected to. It had to be humiliating...and make them feel ashamed. It probably also strengthened their bond.

We dont know wether they were bullied

I think there is a strong case in support of bullying. Brooks Brown witnessed a car full of jocks throw a bottle at them in the smoker's pit, they were pelted with ketchup covered tampons, people who associated with them were ridiculed for it. It's all out there.

Not entirely, and let me explain why.

First thing, yes, Brooks Brown claimed to have withnessed bullying up close. Yet, relying on one persons account doesnt necessarily cut it. There are several other friends of Eric and Dylan; Nathan, Zach, Robyn, Devon, Eric Veik, to name a few(but there are others as well). I havent looked at everyones statements and interviews, but lets look at the few Im aware of- Brooks, Robyn, Nate and Devon. Brooks suggests suggests throughout hes book that Dylan was bullied since Elementary school. Devon explained how Eric and Dylan recieved looks(yet, I always interpret this with cation, given Ive read that they used to be trouble makers aswell). Devon provided a statement where She said that she got slammed into a locker for talking to Dylan.


But if we look into other statements by Nate and Robyn, Nate suggested that Eric was the one being picked on and not Dylan. Robyn, on the other hand, argues that She had never seen them getting picked on.

What else is there? Frank Ochberg, the forensic psychiatrist that helped investigating the case says that 'in spite of views to the contrary, Eric and Dylan were not bullied'.

I think this leads us to the point Where theres likely not much of an answer.

Yeah because a psychiatrist clearly went to Columbine High School. I'm going to pick his word over the people that actually knew Eric and Dylan, and were very close to them. Eric and Dylan were bullied, however Eric was definitely teased more than Dylan. We don't know the extent of the bullying, but after researching Columbine over 10 years I've come to the conclusion that a lot of the "bullied" stories that Eric and Dylan received weren't really them, and others would get them confused with the TCM, who actually had members who were physically abused by jocks throughout high school. I'm pretty sure at this point from what I've viewed they were teased, but no more than your average dork, or your average freshman


Bullying was a small factor in Columbine High School, but they were still bullied. However Eric and Dylan never had to pick up pennies from their noses. Eric and Dylan were never made to slide in the hallway by using lotion on the floor to make it slippery. The Tampon Ketchup Incident was a complete myth that people continue to confuse with everyday. There were separate incidents. The whole thing with Rocky and his goons telling Eric and Dylan "to kiss" is a lie. That was actually towards Eric Dutro and Joe Stair, who would purposely do things in front of Rocky and his goons, because they (Rocky and co) were very homophobic. The whole "ketchup incident" I believe was a food fight and the tampons thrown was at the TCM.

A lot of the mystic BS lies continue that surround Columbine, but it is what it is. People believe what they want, and actually believed Eric and Dylan were tormented everyday. You have kids who are actual rejects at their school who look up to those two clowns, who by the way, I am positive Eric and Dylan would've bullied them too, since they bullied others themselves.

Eric and Dylan weren't loners either. Brooks Brown and his continued exaggeration bullshit is just that...bullshit. They had their own group of friends. They weren't popular, but they weren't the "losers of the losers"; "lowest of the low". They had way more friends than killers like Adam Lanza, or Elliot Rodger

Eric and Dylan committed the shooting at Columbine High School for various different reasons such as bullying, hatred towards humanity, and infamy. Infamy is a huge one that isn't talked about enough here. These boys were recording their Basement Tapes for the world to see. They wanted copycats. They wanted to be famous, and wanted people to forever talk about them (they got their wish. They won). Eric wrote his entire journal for an audience, because he knew every scientist out there would try to "decipher" if he was truly a psychopath or not (He wasn't)

Is there a witness statement included in the 11k that refers to the ketchup incident being a food fight? Just curious as to where you found the definitive answer to the age old question of ketchup packets vs ketchup tampons.

As for wanting infamy, completely agree. They were looking for the world's attention and didn't care what it took to get it...That said, since they're dead and don't know wtf happened after they blew their brains out, I wouldn't exactly call it a win. It's not like they get to revel in their celebrity status. Not too glamours being found covered in brains and your own shit.

lol wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

AZ20 wrote:

Norwegian wrote:

AZ20 wrote:

As teenage males who wanted to be viewed as "strong", E&D would want to downplay the bullying they were subjected to. It had to be humiliating...and make them feel ashamed. It probably also strengthened their bond.

We dont know wether they were bullied

I think there is a strong case in support of bullying. Brooks Brown witnessed a car full of jocks throw a bottle at them in the smoker's pit, they were pelted with ketchup covered tampons, people who associated with them were ridiculed for it. It's all out there.

Not entirely, and let me explain why.

First thing, yes, Brooks Brown claimed to have withnessed bullying up close. Yet, relying on one persons account doesnt necessarily cut it. There are several other friends of Eric and Dylan; Nathan, Zach, Robyn, Devon, Eric Veik, to name a few(but there are others as well). I havent looked at everyones statements and interviews, but lets look at the few Im aware of- Brooks, Robyn, Nate and Devon. Brooks suggests suggests throughout hes book that Dylan was bullied since Elementary school. Devon explained how Eric and Dylan recieved looks(yet, I always interpret this with cation, given Ive read that they used to be trouble makers aswell). Devon provided a statement where She said that she got slammed into a locker for talking to Dylan.


But if we look into other statements by Nate and Robyn, Nate suggested that Eric was the one being picked on and not Dylan. Robyn, on the other hand, argues that She had never seen them getting picked on.

What else is there? Frank Ochberg, the forensic psychiatrist that helped investigating the case says that 'in spite of views to the contrary, Eric and Dylan were not bullied'.

I think this leads us to the point Where theres likely not much of an answer.

Yeah because a psychiatrist clearly went to Columbine High School. I'm going to pick his word over the people that actually knew Eric and Dylan, and were very close to them. Eric and Dylan were bullied, however Eric was definitely teased more than Dylan. We don't know the extent of the bullying, but after researching Columbine over 10 years I've come to the conclusion that a lot of the "bullied" stories that Eric and Dylan received weren't really them, and others would get them confused with the TCM, who actually had members who were physically abused by jocks throughout high school. I'm pretty sure at this point from what I've viewed they were teased, but no more than your average dork, or your average freshman


Bullying was a small factor in Columbine High School, but they were still bullied. However Eric and Dylan never had to pick up pennies from their noses. Eric and Dylan were never made to slide in the hallway by using lotion on the floor to make it slippery. The Tampon Ketchup Incident was a complete myth that people continue to confuse with everyday. There were separate incidents. The whole thing with Rocky and his goons telling Eric and Dylan "to kiss" is a lie. That was actually towards Eric Dutro and Joe Stair, who would purposely do things in front of Rocky and his goons, because they (Rocky and co) were very homophobic. The whole "ketchup incident" I believe was a food fight and the tampons thrown was at the TCM.

A lot of the mystic BS lies continue that surround Columbine, but it is what it is. People believe what they want, and actually believed Eric and Dylan were tormented everyday. You have kids who are actual rejects at their school who look up to those two clowns, who by the way, I am positive Eric and Dylan would've bullied them too, since they bullied others themselves.

Eric and Dylan weren't loners either. Brooks Brown and his continued exaggeration bullshit is just that...bullshit. They had their own group of friends. They weren't popular, but they weren't the "losers of the losers"; "lowest of the low". They had way more friends than killers like Adam Lanza, or Elliot Rodger

Eric and Dylan committed the shooting at Columbine High School for various different reasons such as bullying, hatred towards humanity, and infamy. Infamy is a huge one that isn't talked about enough here. These boys were recording their Basement Tapes for the world to see. They wanted copycats. They wanted to be famous, and wanted people to forever talk about them (they got their wish. They won). Eric wrote his entire journal for an audience, because he knew every scientist out there would try to "decipher" if he was truly a psychopath or not (He wasn't)

The best we can do is probably to ask questions. Ochberg worked on the investigation and with the students after the shooting. Always go back to the source. Find out Where this came from. Thats my take. Us humans tends to be confused when represented with New evidence. Im not saying that Eric and Dylan werent bullied or occasionally harassed. Im saying giving it the benefit of the doubt is always a good idea when represented with new information. I agree that the aspect of infamy is important, though. Does it make sense to say that someone that plans to go out on a mass shooting in order to seek infamy is a psychopath or just extremely narssistic? I dont think thats necessarily, but I do believe that some of them are.

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As for Ochberg, he worked on the case, and he also talked to students that went to Columbine, from what I gather


Bound By A Trauma Called Columbine
By Frank M. OchbergNovember 19, 2000
'To walk through Columbine High School today is to be struck by the apparent normality of it all. Students greet each other between classes. A teacher jokes with a group of girls and boys in the hall. Band members tote instruments to practice. It's almost as if the shootings of April 20, 1999, had never happened.

But the cheerful ordinariness that prevails on the surface masks a painful paradox: Though the school and the community are gradually returning to normal, they will never, on one level, be "normal" in people's minds again. The name "Columbine" will always signal more than the name of a high school. And those who lived through the killing cannot deny to themselves that their lives have been forever changed, reorganized around tragedy and loss.

Assistant principal Chris Mikesell still has upsetting lapses of concentration. "I got back from vacation, and what did I do?" she recalls with exasperation. "I drove right into my son's car!" She is distressed by the holes in her memory of the day that Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold strode into the school and started shooting. A former math teacher, Mikesell had always specialized in logic and deliberation. Now she struggles with a disturbing sense of diminished control over life'.


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'For more than a year, I have worked with survivors of the shootings at the Littleton, Colo., high school that left 14 teenagers (including the two killers) and one teacher dead, and many others wounded. I have seen Columbine struggling to recover from a form of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD)--the disorder most associated with survivors of war--and the shame and blame that attach to the profoundly wounding trauma the community suffered'