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 Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy?

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PostSubject: Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy?   Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 26, 2017 2:41 pm

We keep assuming that Cullen has a hard-on for Dylan, but could it be that he secretly digs Eric? I mean, he makes Eric out to be this badass muthafucka who "outscored the football team," while Dylan was a sad little emo who shat his pants every time Eric scowled in his direction.

Psychopaths don't have much trouble getting laid ... I mean, even Charles Manson pulled some decent tail in his later years. Maybe Cullen likes a shot of crazy in the manjuice.

If anything, Cullenbine makes Eric look *better* than he was in real life. I would even dare to say that Eric would prefer to be remembered as a swaggering ladies' man who charmed girls left and right. He might even approve of Cullen's portrayal.

I'm not saying I'm ready to make up my mind either way, but the question is worth considering.

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PostSubject: Re: Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy?   Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 26, 2017 2:52 pm

I'm sure Dylan would have had issues with the way Cullen painted him as the sad, awkward follower, the someone please hug that boy type. While Eric was really portrayed the very way he wanted to be in real life, the way he tried to be.

HMM That does make one think. scratch
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PostSubject: Re: Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy?   Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 26, 2017 3:01 pm

I honestly got that impression reading Cullenbine.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy?   Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 26, 2017 3:06 pm

“Eric is just so good-looking. I can’t believe he couldn’t get a date for the prom. If I was a girl, I would have gone to the prom with him. Does that sound gay, straight or bi?" - Dave Cullen

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PostSubject: Re: Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy?   Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 26, 2017 3:38 pm

Eric DID have the patented french fry method to get a girls attention. That's smooth.

The portrayal of E&D in the book is off. Eric asked a LOT of girls out but got rejected, but Dylan asked girls out too. Once he got over his shyness he could talk to people. I do get slightly irritated at the portrayal that Dylan was a weak little missive who would run away crying if someone said hello to him... that's not how shy or even awkward people are, people are multi layered.

I bet Eric would like the portrayal of him, Cullen may like Eric more than he lets on.


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PostSubject: Re: Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy?   Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 26, 2017 3:48 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
Eric DID have the patented french fry method to get a girls attention. That's smooth.


Smooth as silk! Probably would have worked on me back in the day Haha Fries are something I can never resist, even though I know how bad they are for you. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy?   Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 26, 2017 3:52 pm

ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
Eric DID have the patented french fry method to get a girls attention. That's smooth.


Smooth as silk! Probably would have worked on me back in the day Haha Fries are something I can never resist, even though I know how bad they are for you. Very Happy

LOL, carbs in general work for me.

Cookies in class... 17 year ScreamingOphelia would be putty in the hands.

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PostSubject: Re: Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy?   Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 26, 2017 3:58 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
Eric DID have the patented french fry method to get a girls attention. That's smooth.


Smooth as silk! Probably would have worked on me back in the day Haha Fries are something I can never resist, even though I know how bad they are for you. Very Happy

LOL, carbs in general work for me.

Cookies in class... 17 year ScreamingOphelia would be putty in the hands.



Oh no, we are starting to sound all Fangirl-ish again! Roll
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PostSubject: Re: Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy?   Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 26, 2017 4:04 pm

CRAP! Embarassed

I just had a really good cookie at the Farmers Market this morning and my mind started wandering.

We are talking about the ultimate fanboy, Cullen.

I just don't know how you can watch Eric in Columbine and not see him as a dorky kid. Hence why Eric created his Reb persona. Or a cursory read of his journals that have been out for YEARS, you'd know that he wasn't a player.

Is there a reason Susan didn't go to the prom with him, was it too late to get tickets?


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PostSubject: Re: Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy?   Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 26, 2017 6:47 pm

I don't think Cullen is a fanboy of Eric or Dylan. I think Cullen relates to and sees his younger self in Dylan and I think that disturbs him. How can someone empathize with a mass murderer and still be a decent person? It was this identification that emerged during his research into Columbine which spurred him to create the narrative that we all know. He needed to make a distinction. He needed to widen the gap between the two of them. He needed an outside influence to explain the disconnect between himself and Dylan without losing Dylan's humanity because Dylan was somehow a part of him.

When it became something personal for Cullen it also became necessary to exaggerate and cherry pick the facts to support the Fuselier conclusion as well as his own position (which is clearly that Dylan is a tragic figure and probably deserves less blame because he was taken advantage of by Eric). Since Cullen essentially saw Dylan as the 14th victim, he needed a real villain for his story so Eric the charismatic chick magnet was born. Cullen's not trying to make Eric look good. He's trying as hard as he can to make Eric look evil, as if he had everything figured out and had just about everything he wanted in life but still couldn't resist his baseless impulse toward destruction. The only reason he engaged in a massacre was for sadistic satisfaction and he used a depressed, vulnerable, lonely boy to accomplish his evil plan.

So, he presents the story in a way that allows people like himself and Dylan to sit safely on the side of innate goodness, knowing in his heart that Dylan was only pushed into evil actions because he was corrupted by an innately evil predator who used Dylan's suffering to create more suffering and who would have eventually killed on a grand scale even if Dylan didn't exist. Both Eric and Dylan are distorted caricatures of who they really were.

I'd say that maybe Cullen's motivation for turning Eric into a super-villain began as he attempted to write a compelling narrative but I suspect that a lot of Cullen's rhetoric is subconsciously self-protective. I never thought much about Cullen's motivation before so all of this is just an offhand suggestion but I don't think Cullen's interpretation was about Eric and Dylan as much as it was about himself. I can't blame him for that because I genuinely believe that this is true for every person who analyzes Columbine. No one looks deeply into this story without seeing himself somewhere in it and depending on where he sees himself, it can be uncomfortable. The problem is simply that he poses as an objective relay of factual information when anyone who does a bit of independent research can see that he's not.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy?   Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 26, 2017 8:31 pm

That's a really good explanation. I agree.


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PostSubject: Re: Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy?   Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy? Icon_minitimeMon Nov 27, 2017 2:16 am

STK wrote:
“Eric is just so good-looking. I can’t believe he couldn’t get a date for the prom. If I was a girl, I would have gone to the prom with him. Does that sound gay, straight or bi?" - Dave Cullen

Is it wrong that I know that the quote is actually from demented Columbine copycat Alvaro Castillo?

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PostSubject: Re: Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy?   Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy? Icon_minitimeMon Nov 27, 2017 6:43 am

sscc wrote:
I don't think Cullen is a fanboy of Eric or Dylan. I think Cullen relates to and sees his younger self in Dylan and I think that disturbs him. How can someone empathize with a mass murderer and still be a decent person? It was this identification that emerged during his research into Columbine which spurred him to create the narrative that we all know. He needed to make a distinction. He needed to widen the gap between the two of them. He needed an outside influence to explain the disconnect between himself and Dylan without losing Dylan's humanity because Dylan was somehow a part of him.

When it became something personal for Cullen it also became necessary to exaggerate and cherry pick the facts to support the Fuselier conclusion as well as his own position (which is clearly that Dylan is a tragic figure and probably deserves less blame because he was taken advantage of by Eric). Since Cullen essentially saw Dylan as the 14th victim, he needed a real villain for his story so Eric the charismatic chick magnet was born. Cullen's not trying to make Eric look good. He's trying as hard as he can to make Eric look evil, as if he had everything figured out and had just about everything he wanted in life but still couldn't resist his baseless impulse toward destruction. The only reason he engaged in a massacre was for sadistic satisfaction and he used a depressed, vulnerable, lonely boy to accomplish his evil plan.

Pretty much this....nope, guys, Cullen has called his dissection of Eric "like a bug under a microscope." Meanwhile Dylan is "a sweet, loving kid. Most of his life, anyway." Aww[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Like when he was blowing Kyle Velasquez's face off.

Eric probably *would* like the super-villain portrayal in Cullenbine, unlike me, who grew very tired of reading Eric's increasingly witless hate rants and Nazi references. I still crack up at "You know what I hate? CUHHHHNNNNNTRRRRY MUSIC" though.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy?   Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy? Icon_minitimeTue Aug 25, 2020 10:56 am

Lol, whaat? The theories are vile in here
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PostSubject: Re: Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy?   Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy? Icon_minitimeTue Aug 25, 2020 11:07 am

Lunkhead McGrath wrote:
sscc wrote:
I don't think Cullen is a fanboy of Eric or Dylan. I think Cullen relates to and sees his younger self in Dylan and I think that disturbs him. How can someone empathize with a mass murderer and still be a decent person? It was this identification that emerged during his research into Columbine which spurred him to create the narrative that we all know. He needed to make a distinction. He needed to widen the gap between the two of them. He needed an outside influence to explain the disconnect between himself and Dylan without losing Dylan's humanity because Dylan was somehow a part of him.

When it became something personal for Cullen it also became necessary to exaggerate and cherry pick the facts to support the Fuselier conclusion as well as his own position (which is clearly that Dylan is a tragic figure and probably deserves less blame because he was taken advantage of by Eric). Since Cullen essentially saw Dylan as the 14th victim, he needed a real villain for his story so Eric the charismatic chick magnet was born. Cullen's not trying to make Eric look good. He's trying as hard as he can to make Eric look evil, as if he had everything figured out and had just about everything he wanted in life but still couldn't resist his baseless impulse toward destruction. The only reason he engaged in a massacre was for sadistic satisfaction and he used a depressed, vulnerable, lonely boy to accomplish his evil plan.

Pretty much this....nope, guys, Cullen has called his dissection of Eric "like a bug under a microscope."  Meanwhile Dylan is "a sweet, loving kid.  Most of his life, anyway."  Aww[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  Like when he was blowing Kyle Velasquez's face off.  

Eric probably *would* like the super-villain portrayal in Cullenbine, unlike me, who grew very tired of reading Eric's increasingly witless hate rants and Nazi references.  I still crack up at "You know what I hate?  CUHHHHNNNNNTRRRRY MUSIC" though.  
..

Well, have you ever felt a sense of a empathy for a killer, even if what they did was horrible? I have. Its easy to feel a sense of empathy for some school shooters because they struggle. I do feel a sense of empathy for Dylan as well. I think he was a sweet kid, but when you are at that point you Just dont care. You can have empathy for Klebold the person. You can have empathy for the child Breivik. That doesnt mean you have empathy for the killer Klebold or Breivik.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy?   Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy? Icon_minitimeTue Aug 25, 2020 6:40 pm

Norwegian wrote:
Lunkhead McGrath wrote:
sscc wrote:
I don't think Cullen is a fanboy of Eric or Dylan. I think Cullen relates to and sees his younger self in Dylan and I think that disturbs him. How can someone empathize with a mass murderer and still be a decent person? It was this identification that emerged during his research into Columbine which spurred him to create the narrative that we all know. He needed to make a distinction. He needed to widen the gap between the two of them. He needed an outside influence to explain the disconnect between himself and Dylan without losing Dylan's humanity because Dylan was somehow a part of him.

When it became something personal for Cullen it also became necessary to exaggerate and cherry pick the facts to support the Fuselier conclusion as well as his own position (which is clearly that Dylan is a tragic figure and probably deserves less blame because he was taken advantage of by Eric). Since Cullen essentially saw Dylan as the 14th victim, he needed a real villain for his story so Eric the charismatic chick magnet was born. Cullen's not trying to make Eric look good. He's trying as hard as he can to make Eric look evil, as if he had everything figured out and had just about everything he wanted in life but still couldn't resist his baseless impulse toward destruction. The only reason he engaged in a massacre was for sadistic satisfaction and he used a depressed, vulnerable, lonely boy to accomplish his evil plan.

Pretty much this....nope, guys, Cullen has called his dissection of Eric "like a bug under a microscope."  Meanwhile Dylan is "a sweet, loving kid.  Most of his life, anyway."  Awwwwww.  Like when he was blowing Kyle Velasquez's face off.  

Eric probably *would* like the super-villain portrayal in Cullenbine, unlike me, who grew very tired of reading Eric's increasingly witless hate rants and Nazi references.  I still crack up at "You know what I hate?  CUHHHHNNNNNTRRRRY MUSIC" though.  
..

Well, have you ever felt a sense of a empathy for a killer, even if what they did was horrible? I have. Its easy to feel a sense of empathy for some school shooters because they struggle. I do feel a sense of empathy for Dylan as well. I think he was a sweet kid, but when you are at that point you Just dont care. You can have empathy for Klebold the person. You can have empathy for the child Breivik. That doesnt mean you have empathy for the killer Klebold or Breivik.
Depression on its own won't lead someone to go on a killing spree. Evidence suggests Dylan had a greater hand in planning the massacre than you're giving credit for.

He also callously laughed as he executed students and physically enjoyed the act of killing more than the supposed psychopath, Eric.

Cullen has been wrong about far too much to take seriously including the Brenda Parker story which was debunked in 1999. He wrote his book years after that.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy?   Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy? Icon_minitimeTue Aug 25, 2020 11:36 pm

There is a great french movie called "Stranger by the lake" about gay man's intense and self-destructive attraction to psychopathic murderer. Danger can be very attractive. But i personally think that Cullen wanted to create very neat and simple narrative. You should feel for the main character, because otherwise it will be boring for the reader - so here you have sad, unwilling, depressed Dylan. And of course you have to have a villain - and here's Eric, banging chicks left and right. He wanted to create simple story on the basis of the real events that were very far from simple.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy?   Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy? Icon_minitimeWed Aug 26, 2020 11:00 pm

Norwegian wrote:
Lunkhead McGrath wrote:
sscc wrote:
I don't think Cullen is a fanboy of Eric or Dylan. I think Cullen relates to and sees his younger self in Dylan and I think that disturbs him. How can someone empathize with a mass murderer and still be a decent person? It was this identification that emerged during his research into Columbine which spurred him to create the narrative that we all know. He needed to make a distinction. He needed to widen the gap between the two of them. He needed an outside influence to explain the disconnect between himself and Dylan without losing Dylan's humanity because Dylan was somehow a part of him.

When it became something personal for Cullen it also became necessary to exaggerate and cherry pick the facts to support the Fuselier conclusion as well as his own position (which is clearly that Dylan is a tragic figure and probably deserves less blame because he was taken advantage of by Eric). Since Cullen essentially saw Dylan as the 14th victim, he needed a real villain for his story so Eric the charismatic chick magnet was born. Cullen's not trying to make Eric look good. He's trying as hard as he can to make Eric look evil, as if he had everything figured out and had just about everything he wanted in life but still couldn't resist his baseless impulse toward destruction. The only reason he engaged in a massacre was for sadistic satisfaction and he used a depressed, vulnerable, lonely boy to accomplish his evil plan.

Pretty much this....nope, guys, Cullen has called his dissection of Eric "like a bug under a microscope."  Meanwhile Dylan is "a sweet, loving kid.  Most of his life, anyway."  Aww[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  Like when he was blowing Kyle Velasquez's face off.  

Eric probably *would* like the super-villain portrayal in Cullenbine, unlike me, who grew very tired of reading Eric's increasingly witless hate rants and Nazi references.  I still crack up at "You know what I hate?  CUHHHHNNNNNTRRRRY MUSIC" though.  
..

Well, have you ever felt a sense of a empathy for a killer, even if what they did was horrible? I have. Its easy to feel a sense of empathy for some school shooters because they struggle. I do feel a sense of empathy for Dylan as well. I think he was a sweet kid, but when you are at that point you Just dont care. You can have empathy for Klebold the person. You can have empathy for the child Breivik. That doesnt mean you have empathy for the killer Klebold or Breivik.

I would *like* to feel sorry for Dylan, but I can't. Because of what he really did, and Cullen left a lot of that out. And he could have stopped all of it. And he could have been an adult and got help, but no, he was a TEENAGE BOY and got Eric.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy?   Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy? Icon_minitimeThu Aug 27, 2020 7:42 pm

Norwegian wrote:
Lunkhead McGrath wrote:
sscc wrote:
I don't think Cullen is a fanboy of Eric or Dylan. I think Cullen relates to and sees his younger self in Dylan and I think that disturbs him. How can someone empathize with a mass murderer and still be a decent person? It was this identification that emerged during his research into Columbine which spurred him to create the narrative that we all know. He needed to make a distinction. He needed to widen the gap between the two of them. He needed an outside influence to explain the disconnect between himself and Dylan without losing Dylan's humanity because Dylan was somehow a part of him.

When it became something personal for Cullen it also became necessary to exaggerate and cherry pick the facts to support the Fuselier conclusion as well as his own position (which is clearly that Dylan is a tragic figure and probably deserves less blame because he was taken advantage of by Eric). Since Cullen essentially saw Dylan as the 14th victim, he needed a real villain for his story so Eric the charismatic chick magnet was born. Cullen's not trying to make Eric look good. He's trying as hard as he can to make Eric look evil, as if he had everything figured out and had just about everything he wanted in life but still couldn't resist his baseless impulse toward destruction. The only reason he engaged in a massacre was for sadistic satisfaction and he used a depressed, vulnerable, lonely boy to accomplish his evil plan.

Pretty much this....nope, guys, Cullen has called his dissection of Eric "like a bug under a microscope."  Meanwhile Dylan is "a sweet, loving kid.  Most of his life, anyway."  Aww[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  Like when he was blowing Kyle Velasquez's face off.  

Eric probably *would* like the super-villain portrayal in Cullenbine, unlike me, who grew very tired of reading Eric's increasingly witless hate rants and Nazi references.  I still crack up at "You know what I hate?  CUHHHHNNNNNTRRRRY MUSIC" though.  
..

Well, have you ever felt a sense of a empathy for a killer, even if what they did was horrible? I have. Its easy to feel a sense of empathy for some school shooters because they struggle. I do feel a sense of empathy for Dylan as well. I think he was a sweet kid, but when you are at that point you Just dont care. You can have empathy for Klebold the person. You can have empathy for the child Breivik. That doesnt mean you have empathy for the killer Klebold or Breivik.
Stop it. Just. Stop. It.

You want to have empathy or sympathy? Have it for the poor innocent kids who had nothing to these with these pissants rage against humanity. They killed innocent kids who had nothing to do with him. They taunted, and killed innocent kids who were scared for their lives. They killed an autistic boy. Dylan was laughing it up the entire time as if he was playing Doom. Eric was out there acting as if he was on a mission. Both were horrendous humans in the end.

Dylan being depressed means nothing, because in the end he was not just depressive, he was homicidal. A depressive person does NOT kill unless he is also homicidal, which is exactly what Dylan was. People need to stop making excuses for that loon. He was just as bad as Eric was. In many cases he was worse, because he hid his true self for years.

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PostSubject: Re: Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy?   Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy? Icon_minitimeFri Aug 28, 2020 9:06 am

lol wrote:
Stop it. Just. Stop. It.

You want to have empathy or sympathy? Have it for the poor innocent kids who had nothing to these with these pissants rage against humanity. They killed innocent kids who had nothing to do with him. They taunted, and killed innocent kids who were scared for their lives. They killed an autistic boy. Dylan was laughing it up the entire time as if he was playing Doom. Eric was out there acting as if he was on a mission. Both were horrendous humans in the end.

Dylan being depressed means nothing, because in the end he was not just depressive, he was homicidal. A depressive person does NOT kill unless he is also homicidal, which is exactly what Dylan was. People need to stop making excuses for that loon. He was just as bad as Eric was. In many cases he was worse, because he hid his true self for years.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] didn't say they don't have empathy for the victims and their families; I think this is implied from saying how horrible the crime was.
I think all of us would wish that it could be undone; the pain it caused everyone is immeasurable.
I disagree, though, with negating someone's entire life because of what they've done, regardless of how vile. When you learn about anyone, it isn't unusual to compare your own experiences to theirs and to look at the commonalities and differences between you. In so doing, you might find similarities and if that person went on to do something terrible, it makes you wonder "what if..." things had gone differently for that person. Or you may find no common thread at all. Relating to what/who someone was before they evolved into the person capable of atrocities in no way implies that you are supporting or excusing those atrocities. Or that you have more empathy for the perpetrator than you do for any victims of his actions.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy?   Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy? Icon_minitimeFri Aug 28, 2020 3:13 pm

Think one is right to get frustrated in pointing out Klebold the person is Klebold the killer. Though, am also surprised how often Brooks take on the library call (or anything) is taken as gospel.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy?   Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy? Icon_minitimeFri Aug 28, 2020 11:02 pm

thelmar wrote:
lol wrote:
Stop it. Just. Stop. It.

You want to have empathy or sympathy? Have it for the poor innocent kids who had nothing to these with these pissants rage against humanity. They killed innocent kids who had nothing to do with him. They taunted, and killed innocent kids who were scared for their lives. They killed an autistic boy. Dylan was laughing it up the entire time as if he was playing Doom. Eric was out there acting as if he was on a mission. Both were horrendous humans in the end.

Dylan being depressed means nothing, because in the end he was not just depressive, he was homicidal. A depressive person does NOT kill unless he is also homicidal, which is exactly what Dylan was. People need to stop making excuses for that loon. He was just as bad as Eric was. In many cases he was worse, because he hid his true self for years.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] didn't say they don't have empathy for the victims and their families; I think this is implied from saying how horrible the crime was.
I think all of us would wish that it could be undone; the pain it caused everyone is immeasurable.
I disagree, though, with negating someone's entire life because of what they've done, regardless of how vile. When you learn about anyone, it isn't unusual to compare your own experiences to theirs and to look at the commonalities and differences between you. In so doing, you might find similarities and if that person went on to do something terrible, it makes you wonder "what if..." things had gone differently for that person. Or you may find no common thread at all. Relating to what/who someone was before they evolved into the person capable of atrocities  in no way implies that you are supporting or excusing those atrocities. Or that you have more empathy for the perpetrator than you do for any victims of his actions.
There lies the problem. Here's the thing...one of the last things you do, especially how vile it is will forever be looked at because it is the last impression you leave on them. The other poster stated Dylan was a sweet kid. Based on what? Because he gave cookies to a class? Because he may have been a chill guy to hang with? Because he was shy and quiet? Does any of that overlook for what he did on his last day alive?

I don't care and it is certainly irrelevant to what Dylan did prior to the massacre, because in the end he will always be looked at as a killer. You search his name up, and there lies his name with a big fat "Murderer" next to his name. So no matter how many times anyone here tries to portray him as what he did prior, it won't work, and it shouldn't work.

I've researched Columbine for a very long time. I was on the old boards before the loons made it get shut down, and I've always said this:

There were always 13 victims on 4/20/1999 at Columbine High School. Eric and Dylan will never and should never be victims' in anyone's eyes, and it is for the simple fact is that those two knew they were going to die that day. Those 13 victims? Most of them kids? Did they go into Columbine, and figured it'd be their last day? You know how heartbreaking that sounds for those innocent people who just went in that day to school as if it was a normal day of school? Meanwhile these two jack asses go in that high school knowing what was going to happen, and knowing that they were going to take others' lives and their own. How dare they ever be portrayed as victims.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy?   Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy? Icon_minitimeSat Aug 29, 2020 1:11 am

lol wrote:
There lies the problem. Here's the thing...one of the last things you do, especially how vile it is will forever be looked at because it is the last impression you leave on them. The other poster stated Dylan was a sweet kid. Based on what? Because he gave cookies to a class? Because he may have been a chill guy to hang with? Because he was shy and quiet? Does any of that overlook for what he did on his last day alive?

I don't care and it is certainly irrelevant to what Dylan did prior to the massacre, because in the end he will always be looked at as a killer. You search his name up, and there lies his name with a big fat "Murderer" next to his name. So no matter how many times anyone here tries to portray him as what he did prior, it won't work, and it shouldn't work.

I've researched Columbine for a very long time. I was on the old boards before the loons made it get shut down, and I've always said this:

There were always 13 victims on 4/20/1999 at Columbine High School. Eric and Dylan will never and should never be victims' in anyone's eyes, and it is for the simple fact is that those two knew they were going to die that day. Those 13 victims? Most of them kids? Did they go into Columbine, and figured it'd be their last day? You know how heartbreaking that sounds for those innocent people who just went in that day to school as if it was a normal day of school? Meanwhile these two jack asses go in that high school knowing what was going to happen, and knowing that they were going to take others' lives and their own. How dare they ever be portrayed as victims.

I don't know whether Dylan was a sweet kid or not and I don't think that either Eric or Dylan should be spoken of as victims of 4/20. I understand what Zanis was trying to do with regard to putting crosses up for them, Christian forgiveness and all, but I don't think it was the time or the place to be putting up reminders of the kids who murdered classmates and terrorized a school.
Dylan and Eric are killers, their actions indefensible, and they will always be associated with their final act, as they should. And the kids who were killed, wounded, and terrorized deserve to have every bit of our empathy, as they should. For you, it ends there, and it's very black and white. It doesn't end there for me as I am curious to know who they were before they ended up where they did, why they ended up there. Because this keeps happening and the answer for why it happens has to be somewhere in the killer's life before that final act. For me, looking for that answer may lead me to recognize the "humanness" of what they were before they went in the direction they did. Part of this involves comparing and contrasting experiences I'm familiar with to things they might have had happen in their lives. This is true for any criminal I've studied, not just Eric and Dylan. Recognizing this "humanness" doesn't make me any less angry or upset with their violent actions, doesn't make me want to make excuses for their actions. I don't think it's possible to separate someone's violent actions from the parts of their life that were unrelated to those actions; the whole person is not what they were before nor what they were after their violent act, it's both. Trying to learn about all aspects of a perpertrator doesn't preclude me from feeling every bit of sadness and empathy for their victims. The desire to try to understand the why of crime/criminal and an ability to feel for the victims of the crime are not mutually exclusive pursuits.
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PostSubject: Re: Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy?   Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy? Icon_minitimeSat Aug 29, 2020 5:01 am

[quote="thelmar"]
lol wrote:
There lies the problem. Here's the thing...one of the last things you do, especially how vile it is will forever be looked at because it is the last impression you leave on them. The other poster stated Dylan was a sweet kid. Based on what? Because he gave cookies to a class? Because he may have been a chill guy to hang with? Because he was shy and quiet? Does any of that overlook for what he did on his last day alive?

I don't care and it is certainly irrelevant to what Dylan did prior to the massacre, because in the end he will always be looked at as a killer. You search his name up, and there lies his name with a big fat "Murderer" next to his name. So no matter how many times anyone here tries to portray him as what he did prior, it won't work, and it shouldn't work.

I've researched Columbine for a very long time. I was on the old boards before the loons made it get shut down, and I've always said this:

There were always 13 victims on 4/20/1999 at Columbine High School. Eric and Dylan will never and should never be victims' in anyone's eyes, and it is for the simple fact is that those two knew they were going to die that day. Those 13 victims? Most of them kids? Did they go into Columbine, and figured it'd be their last day? You know how heartbreaking that sounds for those innocent people who just went in that day to school as if it was a normal day of school? Meanwhile these two jack asses go in that high school knowing what was going to happen, and knowing that they were going to take others' lives and their own. How dare they ever be portrayed as victims.

I don't know whether Dylan was a sweet kid or not and I don't think that either Eric or Dylan should be spoken of as victims of 4/20. I understand what Zanis was trying to do with regard to putting crosses up for them, Christian forgiveness and all, but I don't think it was the time or the place to be putting up reminders of the kids who murdered classmates and terrorized a school.
Dylan and Eric are killers, their actions indefensible, and they will always be associated with their final act, as they should. And the kids who were killed, wounded, and terrorized deserve to have every bit of our empathy, as they should. For you, it ends there, and it's very black and white. It doesn't end there for me as I am curious to know who they were before they ended up where they did, why they ended up there. Because this keeps happening and the answer for why it happens has to be somewhere in the killer's life before that final act. For me, looking for that answer may lead me to recognize the "humanness" of what they were before they went in the direction they did. Part of this involves comparing and contrasting experiences I'm familiar with to things they might have had happen in their lives.  This is true for any criminal I've studied, not just Eric and Dylan. Recognizing this "humanness" doesn't make me any less angry or upset with their violent actions, doesn't make me want to make excuses for their actions. I don't think it's possible to separate someone's violent actions from the parts of their life that were unrelated to those actions; the whole person is not what they were before nor what they were after their violent act, it's both. Trying to learn about all aspects of a perpertrator doesn't preclude me from feeling every bit of sadness and empathy for their victims. The desire to try to understand the why of crime/criminal and an ability to feel for the victims of the crime are not mutually exclusive pursuits.[/quot

Fully agree on this. They shouldnt have put up the crosses, because thats offensive to the victims families. As for the record, I am always troubled with the term monster, because whos to reckognize a monster? You can think about Rwanda, Yoguslavia, WWII. Werent these all perfectly human that turned their attrocities towards fellow human beings? But, yes, I also think that some people do horrible acts because they lack this particular something. They might bully, abuse or worse kill, because they dont feel it in the first place.

On a side note, history books suggests that anyone can do horrible things or be a bystander to it under the right circumstances . Yet, thats not the image I have of the school shooters, as they are usually severely mentally disturbed from what I know. Yet, I gather they are also not necessarily so severely mentally ill that they dont know what they are doing
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PostSubject: Re: Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy?   Is Cullen an *Eric* fanboy? Icon_minitimeSat Aug 29, 2020 5:11 am

Criminal FBI-profiler Mary Ellen O'Toole wrote a book about killers. Shes the one that helped write School shooters A threat assessment perspective..
I think that people tend to argue that people are monsters, so they dont have go a knowledge that these people look like you and me. I dont think its true that every person that has committed a horrible crime are, simply put, evil.
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