The small questions thread

Just reading Dylan's writing in Eric's yearbook I realize how much fun they had and how many memories they shared as teenagers doing harmless stuff. Why couldn't they have just made a pact to forget all the bullshit in high school and remain friends after graduation? I never saw them write about meeting each other in the "afterlife" but they were so ready to die. They had such a bizarre yet close friendship and didn't care that they would just end it one April morning (their friendship and their lives). What do you guys think of this? Did they only view their friendship as a means to an end?

Littlelo wrote:

Just reading Dylan's writing in Eric's yearbook I realize how much fun they had and how many memories they shared as teenagers doing harmless stuff. Why couldn't they have just made a pact to forget all the bullshit in high school and remain friends after graduation? I never saw them write about meeting each other in the "afterlife" but they were so ready to die. They had such a bizarre yet close friendship and didn't care that they would just end it one April morning (their friendship and their lives). What do you guys think of this? Did they only view their friendship as a means to an end?

I love this question and I've thought about it before. They did have a lot of fun together. If I remember correctly I think Robyn said he was pushing for a lot of people to go out for Eric's 18th bday because he didn't want Eric to feel left out. In Hitmen for Hire there's a moment they look bemused and look at each other and kind of turn in and laugh.

I think Eric was a lot and Dylan had patience. There are things Dylan wrote that would make you think he used Eric as a means to an end. Having a friend like that is pretty amazing but they chose a bad path.

It makes me think maybe that's a small reason why Zach was so harsh on Dylan right after. He did horrible things yes but Eric is the one he died with. The one he at the end was most connected with.

I sometimes wonder if Dylan cried in front of him like he did with Zach?

There was a time I realized "wow, all of this and they won't even have each other anymore"

Screamingophelia wrote:

There was a time I realized "wow, all of this and they won't even have each other anymore"

This is what gets me the most. Such a bond they had, I wish they had found their way out of the darkness together.

Littlelo wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

There was a time I realized "wow, all of this and they won't even have each other anymore"

This is what gets me the most. Such a bond they had, I wish they had found their way out of the darkness together.

Me too

It makes me sad reading how Kathy asked Sue not to separate the boys since Dylan was a good influence.

If only it was "fuck, we are angry. What do we do?" Get through it together and get the fuck out of Littleton.

When I was there I talked to so many people who said while it's still conservative in ways, it's more diverse and accepting. They said it was bad in the 90's

Screamingophelia wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

There was a time I realized "wow, all of this and they won't even have each other anymore"

This is what gets me the most. Such a bond they had, I wish they had found their way out of the darkness together.

Me too

It makes me sad reading how Kathy asked Sue not to separate the boys since Dylan was a good influence.

If only it was "fuck, we are angry. What do we do?" Get through it together and get the fuck out of Littleton.

When I was there I talked to so many people who said while it's still conservative in ways, it's more diverse and accepting. They said it was bad in the 90's

It was poor timing, a toxic friendship, mental illness, and paranoid uncertainty all rolled into one. They didn't see a future past NBK. They didn't want one.

Littlelo wrote:

I wish they had found their way out of the darkness together.

They didn't want that. This ties into the question of "what could have been." Nothing could have been different without Eric and Dylan changing at some fundamental level because you can't help someone who doesn't want your help. Eric was in therapy for a year and Dylan wasn't even honest enough to be put into treatment. Just like many other mass shooters, there was unhealthy narcissism and a related sense of entitlement which drove them to recognize the problems with everything but themselves. They didn't want to change or learn to adapt to the world they were actually living in. They wanted the world to adapt to their needs and when they saw that it wasn't going to happen, they decided that the best choice was to destroy what they could before taking their exit.

Edit:

Littlelo wrote:

It was poor timing, a toxic friendship, mental illness, and paranoid uncertainty all rolled into one. They didn't see a future past NBK. They didn't want one

I see that you said the same thing while I was typing.

All good points [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. I guess I wish they would have been able to recognize their issues and seek help, but I agree that their flawed logic didn't allow that to happen.

Littlelo wrote:

All good points [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. I guess I wish they would have been able to recognize their issues and seek help, but I agree that their flawed logic didn't allow that to happen.

They did get a lot if not all that they wanted. Movies, followers etc..

Sensitive question. Was Kyle V actually "mentally retarded" I am reading a LOT of posts saying that and I'm wondering if he had a learning disability or something. It seems not only cruel to say that but when I read that it is almost like they are saying Eric and Dylan are worse for killing him... no one that day deserved to die more or less than anyone else. It was horrible. Every life mattered. Granted I think all 15 lives mattered, Eric and Dylans too but still. They did matter.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Sensitive question. Was Kyle V actually "mentally retarded" I am reading a LOT of posts saying that and I'm wondering if he had a learning disability or something. It seems not only cruel to say that but when I read that it is almost like they are saying Eric and Dylan are worse for killing him... no one that day deserved to die more or less than anyone else. It was horrible. Every life mattered. Granted I think all 15 lives mattered, Eric and Dylans too but still. They did matter.

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He suffered a stroke as a kid that left him disabled. And yes, 10000%. No one deserved to die that day.

Was Kyle the one that Dylan mentioned he tried to stop bullying in his effort to cleanse himself?

munchkinphone wrote:

Was Kyle the one that Dylan mentioned he tried to stop bullying in his effort to cleanse himself?

I always assumed it was Adam Kyler since supposedly he bullied him pretty bad.

Did we ever get an actual answer on Dylan and his jewelry. Did he remove it or was it removed after he died?

I think CVA made a video about their autopsies where he discussed the jewelry thing.

I don't think Dylan removed it himself, though. Do you remember the video I mean?

Littlelo wrote:

I think CVA made a video about their autopsies where he discussed the jewelry thing.

I don't think Dylan removed it himself, though. Do you remember the video I mean?

Yes, I think it's still up. It's about their suicides.

Matt Kechter's football number (70) is on the CHS football team's practice jerseys and helmets...but does anyone know what the "6" is for? Another team member that passed?

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Isaiahs number maybe?

Isaiahs was 52

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No idea what the 6 stands for :/

Maybe it was Isaiah, since that picture is not from the CHS team.

Littlelo wrote:

Maybe it was Isaiah, since that picture is not from the CHS team.

Nvm that then

I was purusing the EC blog and I came across info that I wanted to confirm. Cassie Bernall supposedly had a rape kit done? Did all the female victims have one? It may be standard for females?

I think I remember seeing one or some of the male victims also had them? I know it wasn't just her. It is included on the evidence list for each one, along with photo logs.

Here is what I could find:

Lauren Townsend
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Kelly Fleming
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John Tomlin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Matt Kechter
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Cassie Bernall
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Dave Sanders
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Rachel Scott
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Littlelo wrote:

Here is what I could find:

Kelly Fleming
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
John Tomlin
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Matt Kechter
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Cassie Bernall
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Dave Sanders
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Rachel Scott
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Thank you!!

I wonder why the males were tested for signs of rape? I can see why the female victims would have been, but not so much the males. Also why only some were tested while others were not.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

I wonder why the males were tested for signs of rape?  I can see why the female victims would have been, but not so much the males.  Also why only some were tested while others were not.  

I'm wondering that too. I feel like researching that to see why it would be done.

I just added Lauren Townsend as well.

I think it might have been standard procedure, maybe they all had them done but they weren't all documented. Otherwise it would seem like they were chosen pretty arbitrarily.

Littlelo wrote:

I just added Lauren Townsend as well.

I think it might have been standard procedure, maybe they all had them done but they weren't all documented. Otherwise it would seem like they were chosen pretty arbitrarily.

You may be right about it being just normal procedure.

Wonder if Eric and Dylan had them done as well...

Littlelo wrote:

Wonder if Eric and Dylan had them done as well...

I think their autopsy reports somewhat noted that those regions seemed normal in appearance with no abnormalities. Or something along those lines.

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It looks like under the question of "what do your parents think of your alcohol use?" there is just the number 7....

I think it's a question mark. If you compare it to the answers for the "Dates of Employment" under the Employment section, it looks very similar. According to the answers given by Dylan's parents, they did not even know about his drug and alcohol use until a few minutes before they were required to fill out the forms so it would make some sense that he claimed not to know how they felt about it. Dylan should have been able to infer what his parents would say about it after witnessing their reaction to his brother's marijuana use but I would guess that he didn't want to think about it until he had to, so he just decided to leave the question blank.

sscc wrote:

I think it's a question mark. If you compare it to the answers for the "Dates of Employment" under the Employment section, it looks very similar. According to the answers given by Dylan's parents, they did not even know about his drug and alcohol use until a few minutes before they were required to fill out the forms so it would make some sense that he claimed not to know how they felt about it. Dylan should have been able to infer what his parents would say about it after witnessing their reaction to his brother's marijuana use but I would guess that he didn't want to think about it until he had to, so he just decided to leave the question blank.

Thanks sscc, that makes sense!

Also it looks like Dylan did cross out something when describing Eric, I don't know if it was best then he wrote "very good friend"

What does "Benjamin Franklin" mean below the description of the gun found on Dylan's body? I assume this is about Dylan, anyway.

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It's a type of rifle I think? He had his Tec-9 and one other that he used when they first started.

Thanks [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I know nothing about firearms lol. It seemed like a weird name but I think you're right.

Littlelo wrote:

Thanks [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I know nothing about firearms lol. It seemed like a weird name but I think you're right.

It sure is!!

Dumb question. How was the gun in his hand when his Tec-9 was in his hand too.. he wasn't holding both guns in the suicide photo. Wouldn't the sawed off be in his pocket? I assume the Benjamin Franklin was his sawed off shotgun.

Maybe it's just the way it was written? Some investigators were a bit more thorough with their descriptions. Although they did write that the knife was on his leg...

Littlelo wrote:

Maybe it's just the way it was written? Some investigators were a bit more thorough with their descriptions. Although they did write that the knife was on his leg...

True... and I try not to look at the suicide photos but I think Dylan's arm is down on one side maybe touching the gun.

I wonder if his family kept his jewelry. He wore the same things everyday for years.

Did any of their friends/family members speak out after they were leaked? Sue talks about it for a little bit and I think she said she never looked at it. She said it was hard enough to see the CVTV screen capture of him holding his gun I believe.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

Maybe it's just the way it was written? Some investigators were a bit more thorough with their descriptions. Although they did write that the knife was on his leg...

True... and I try not to look at the suicide photos but I think Dylan's arm is down on one side maybe touching the gun.

I wonder if his family kept his jewelry. He wore the same things everyday for years.

I definitely had a morbid curiosity about the photos but I find it hard to look at them anymore tbh.

I am sure they wanted to keep his jewelry, I just wonder what was allowed to be kept since some things were considered a biohazard. Do those pieces of evidence ever get released or are they destroyed?

Littlelo wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Littlelo wrote:

Maybe it's just the way it was written? Some investigators were a bit more thorough with their descriptions. Although they did write that the knife was on his leg...

True... and I try not to look at the suicide photos but I think Dylan's arm is down on one side maybe touching the gun.

I wonder if his family kept his jewelry. He wore the same things everyday for years.

I definitely had a morbid curiosity about the photos but I find it hard to look at them anymore tbh.

I am sure they wanted to keep his jewelry, I just wonder what was allowed to be kept since some things were considered a biohazard. Do those pieces of evidence ever get released or are they destroyed?

I have to look it up but I think the pocket watch and ring were returned.

I imagine the earring and necklace had to have been covered in blood so probably a biohazard. His ring was on his gloved hand so probably fine. When I saw someone who knew Dylan it looked like they had a similar ring but I doubt it was his.. it would seem like an odd thing to wear around. Maybe not, I'm not sure why I'd do.

I have a visceral reaction when. I see the picture and get teary eyed... it's so weird. I never met them but I get sad. It's odd.

It makes me sad, too. Definitely not a weird reaction!

It's essentially the culmination of the deeds of two extremely troubled people who thought their death and the death of innocent people was their only hope for peace and happiness.

Has anyone ever confirmed exactly why SWAT had removed Dylan's jewelry? I know there was some debate about whether he had removed everything himself or not.

Littlelo wrote:

It makes me sad, too. Definitely not a weird reaction!

It's essentially the culmination of the deeds of two extremely troubled people who thought their death and the death of innocent people was their only hope for peace and happiness.

Exactly.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Has anyone ever confirmed exactly why SWAT had removed Dylan's jewelry? I know there was some debate about whether he had removed everything himself or not.

Nothing that I've seen!

2 possibly dumb questions. I was reading the 1 star reviews of AMR, some are actually sympathetic to Dylan more so than Sue. Like no wonder he was screwed up with a mom like that.

One reviewer mentioned 2 things that happened in the book that I'm not sure about, I've read it and listened to the audiobook.

1. Dylan got a DUI. That doesn't ring a bell

2. The gun magazines were addressed to Dylan. I don't think that was confirmed.

Screamingophelia wrote:

2 possibly dumb questions. I was reading the 1 star reviews of AMR, some are actually sympathetic to Dylan more so than Sue. Like no wonder he was screwed up with a mom like that.

One reviewer mentioned 2 things that happened in the book that I'm not sure about, I've read it and listened to the audiobook.

1. Dylan got a DUI. That doesn't ring a bell

2. The gun magazines were addressed to Dylan. I don't think that was confirmed.

Never remember hearing about a dui. Wouldn't we have spoken extensively about this?

You're right about the catalogs. Sue never thought to check who they were addressed to, which leads me to believe they were for him and she overlooked it.

Littlelo wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

2 possibly dumb questions. I was reading the 1 star reviews of AMR, some are actually sympathetic to Dylan more so than Sue. Like no wonder he was screwed up with a mom like that.

One reviewer mentioned 2 things that happened in the book that I'm not sure about, I've read it and listened to the audiobook.

1. Dylan got a DUI. That doesn't ring a bell

2. The gun magazines were addressed to Dylan. I don't think that was confirmed.

Never remember hearing about a dui. Wouldn't we have spoken extensively about this?

You're right about the catalogs. Sue never thought to check who they were addressed to, which leads me to believe they were for him and she overlooked it.

Yes I assume we would've talked about that a lot. So she must be mistaken.

The overlooking makes sense.

oh!! Plus if he got a DUI in diversion he would've gotten into a lot of trouble.

I read somewhere that E & D both said they never wanted kids. I know where Dylan's comes from, it was in AMR but I have never seen anything from Eric.

It makes you think, I wonder if their young "fangirls' who are in HS and in their early 20's realize they would have been 37 this year... if they sat down to think about it.

I bet either one or both would have changed their minds about kids. I always said I didn't want them until I was around 25-26 and then I realized I did (eventually). You never know!