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 Would a girlfriend made any difference?

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PostSubject: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeTue Jul 16, 2013 5:20 am

At the cost of sounding like a total fangirl, I was wondering:

The fangirls seem to think that if Eric and/or Dylan had a girlfriend, They wouldn't have gone through with the massacre. And the average researcher seem to think that it wouldn't have changed a damn thing.

It seems that Zack Heckler was heading for the wrong path(suicide or whatever) and that Devon Adams kind of saved him.
On the other hand; mental illness doesn't usually take love in account.

So what do guys think....?

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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeTue Jul 16, 2013 5:47 am

I honestly do believe that real love could help mental illness, especially if you're feeling alone and you find the right someone to spend your time with that loves you for you. In Dylan's case, it may have made a difference, as I think he wanted to go through with the massacre so ultimately he could kill himself and I believe one of the reasons he wanted to kill himself was because he felt so alone. Perhaps if he found love, found someone who was just like him, someone he could relate to that could relate to him, things could have been different for him. I'm not really sure about Eric though.

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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeTue Jul 16, 2013 5:51 am

I guess if Dylan had a girlfriend, there are two possibilities. He talked her into a rampage, or he failed in talking her in and they split up (and Dylan chooses Eric once again for his NBK). If Eric had a girlfriend (not in the last month though) he'd probably didn't go on the rampage.
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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeTue Jul 16, 2013 6:01 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I guess if Dylan had a girlfriend, there are two possibilities. He talked her into a rampage, or he failed in talking her in and they split up (and Dylan chooses Eric once again for his NBK). If Eric had a girlfriend (not in the last month though) he'd probably didn't go on the rampage.

What do you think would have happened if Dylan had found a female rampage partner? Do you think he would have ditched Eric? Or do you think the three of them would have united together?
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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeTue Jul 16, 2013 6:36 am

It's a difficult question to answer, especially because neither one of the boys had a particularly stable relationship with a girl before. I don't think that they were at the point in their lives where they were able to have a love-centric relationship based on mutual respect and reciprocation. That alone makes me believe that any relationship they would have had would not have lasted for the length of time necessary to put a definite halt to the plans for NBK. I think that they were on a fast track to death ever since January 1998's van break-in and the subsequent diversion program. I would put that down as the point in time where thoughts/fantasies slowly began to turn into plans. Any influence from a girlfriend would probably have to be present pre-1998, but at that age relationships rarely last all the way through to graduation in 1999. By the time of the second half of '98, both of them were fully engaged in what they were going to do. It was only a question of when. (In many ways, I feel like the relationship they had with each other 'replaced' what they could have had with a girlfriend. I'm not saying that the boys were gay or any such thing, but that kind of friendship requires such a level of trust and mutual respect that its intensity would very likely have been on-par with the intensity of a love-relationship. I don't think a third wheel in the form of a girlfriend would have impacted the connection to the point where the duo would've become a trio or to the point where one would leave the other behind for the girlfriend.)

If I discard the problems I have with the timeline and my thoughts on when NBK became reality, I'm still unconvinced on whether it would've made a difference at all. Dylan claimed to want love, sure, and he spoke of it with a longing you rarely see in guys his age.. but he also is an obsessive lover for that reason. I think he would've swamped the poor girl with affection and that he would've expected the same level of devotion from her. He's the type to quickly turn a good relationship into a suffocating one, in my opinion. The level of attention and care that would need to go into drawing him out of his shell, getting him to feel better about himself, etc would've been huge. Too huge, maybe, for a girl his own age to get herself into. Eric, in comparison, would've been the more stable choice at first glance. Yet, hiding behind that puffed-up exterior was a very insecure boy. I have a feeling that he would need to be reassured of someone's love for him and of their place in his life very regularly. I think he would've been a very gentlemanly sort, maybe, but also a very focused and marching-to-the-beat-of-his-own-drum sort of guy. He frequently shut people out of his life 'forever' when he perceived a slight against him or if they had direct critique etc.. Not the sort of thing that makes me think that he could've had a fight with his girlfriend and then make up with her within a relatively short space of time. I don't think any girl would've had the patience to keep walking on eggshells around him or something. Both boys weren't relationship material during their teenage years. The chances that a relationship would've backfired or ended are bigger than the chances that it would've worked out.


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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeTue Jul 16, 2013 6:55 am

I don't believe that either E or D could have maintained a relationship, but perhaps just knowing that it was possible from them to get a girlfriend could have altered their minds about the future. I think that both E/D believed they would never find someone.
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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeWed Jul 17, 2013 7:15 pm

@tragedy79 wrote:
At the cost of sounding like a total fangirl, I was wondering:

The fangirls seem to think that if Eric and/or Dylan had a girlfriend, They wouldn't have gone through with the massacre. And the average researcher seem to think that it wouldn't have changed a damn thing.

It seems that Zack Heckler was heading for the wrong path(suicide or whatever) and that Devon Adams kind of saved him.
On the other hand; mental illness doesn't usually take love in account.

So what do guys think....?

That is a tough question. I'd like to think a girlfriend would have helped them to the point that they wouldn't have went through with it. I'd especially like to think that if Dylan had found his true love & they were together that it would have helped him tremendously. I don't know though, because I've always wondered if maybe he was going more for finding the girl of his dreams & them committing suicide together. I mean, he felt that the girl for him would probably be as lonely & miserable as he was ("she feels as I do right now, i can feel it"..."I'm here, STILL alone, still in pain, so is she"), he didn't want to die alone, & he seem convinced that there was something better beyond this particular existence. I may be wrong; it's just a thought I had.

Anyway, though, I do think both boys had alot of problems that needed to be dealt with, so I don't know if a girlfriend alone would have solved the problem. Also, we'd have to consider if they could maintain a relationship. Dylan's expectations seemed so high....he would become infatuated w/ a certain girl & build her up in his head.....if he had gotten to know her & found out she wasn't what he thought, he'd probably have been crushed & for him it would have been worse than a "normal" person. When him & a girlfriend had, say a conflict (it would happen eventually), even if it were minor, it would probably drive him into despair. And if a girl broke up with him, he would most likely be suicidal again. His happiness depends on her.

As for Eric, I think, in addition to help for his other issues, he would have needed to lighten up--stop getting mad over every little thing--& he might have had a chance. Although, if, underneath it all, he was as suicidal as Dylan then it might have been a similar situation as Dylan's. Eric was dependent on others as well (like Dylan it was a crushing blow to lose, or perceive to lose, a friend), but to a lesser extent I think.
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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeTue Apr 21, 2015 12:17 am

Dylan yes, I believe he was a positive or fulfilling relationship away from being incapable of this.

It would have delayed Eric at best IMO.
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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeTue Apr 21, 2015 8:32 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I don't believe that either E or D could have maintained a relationship, but perhaps just knowing that it was possible from them to get a girlfriend could have altered their minds about the future. I think that both E/D believed they would never find someone.

That imho would be extremely unlikely, as this sort of spree killing behavior is almost exclusively a male thing.

If the unlikley had happened, I think Dylan would never realy told Eric about the plot in the first place, which would result in Eric still being alive today most likley.

While I think Eric was critical in building the explosives, obtaining weapons etc, I do not think Eric alone would ever come up with the idea for a spree killing. Dylan alone, or with a different partner - probably yes, he would.


I do not believe Eric would have ever told her girlfriend about plannign the massacre, unless she came up with the idea first. Eric was a carefull planner and a suspicious person.
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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeTue Apr 21, 2015 10:05 pm

That's such a hard question to answer honestly. On one hand a girl would have given them an outlet from all the anger. A way to show and give love, not hate and take it away. Having someone other than each other to confide in would have been very good for them. The boys really needed to branch out from each other. Hell a couple more friends with good outlooks on life would have done them good. If it was a girl from their school they might have thought twice about all the people who went there as well. Not everyone was a stuck up jock or a religious nut.

On the other hand a break up could have made it worse. Personally I think Dylan would have killed himself if a woman left him. Love was all he had to hope for and a breakup would equate to betrayal of the highest kind in his eyes. It would solidify and validate the depression. I think things would be different with Eric. He seemed like the kind of guy who could be a popular person with the right spark of confidence. He also comes across as more interested in sex than love. We all know how powerful the gun made him feel. Imagine the feeling he would have had after loosing his virginity. That's a point of pride for all young men. It might have given him a reason to keep going. Having sex would men he wasnt strictly the "weird looking eric kid", but a man who someone found attractive. I think he knew that too. That's why he wrote about not getting any in his last journal entry. He wouldn't need that gun to feel like a man, he just needed the right girl to see and treat him as one.

Let's take it one step further for a second: What would have happened to E/D's friendship if one of the boys had gotten laid or found a girlfriend? If it happened to Eric then Dylan would be devastated. Eric was the only friend he felt he had. E getting a girl would have made him certain that the world was against him. Hed probably just kill himself alone. Typical sad Dylan stuff lol. I think Eric would have been angry if Dylan met a girl. She would have been an enemy in his eyes. It may have even drove him to want to hurt Dylan or his girl out of jealousy. "We can be sad together, but I won't let you be happy without me."
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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeTue Apr 21, 2015 10:48 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
That's such a hard question to answer honestly. On one hand a girl would have given them an outlet from all the anger. A way to show and give love, not hate and take it away. Having someone other than each other to confide in would have been very good for them. The boys really needed to branch out from each other. Hell a couple more friends with good outlooks on life would have done them good. If it was a girl from their school they might have thought twice about all the people who went there as well. Not everyone was a stuck up jock or a religious nut.

On the other hand a break up could have made it worse. Personally I think Dylan would have killed himself if a woman left him. Love was all he had to hope for and a breakup would equate to betrayal of the highest kind in his eyes. It would solidify and validate the depression. I think things would be different with Eric. He seemed like the kind of guy who could be a popular person with the right spark of confidence. He also comes across as more interested in sex than love. We all know how powerful the gun made him feel. Imagine the feeling he would have had after loosing his virginity. That's a point of pride for all young men. It might have given him a reason to keep going. Having sex would men he wasnt strictly the "weird looking eric kid", but a man who someone found attractive. I think he knew that too. That's why he wrote about not getting any in his last journal entry. He wouldn't need that gun to feel like a man, he just needed the right girl to see and treat him as one.

Let's take it one step further for a second: What would have happened to E/D's friendship if one of the boys had gotten laid or found a girlfriend? If it happened to Eric then Dylan would be devastated. Eric was the only friend he felt he had. E getting a girl would have made him certain that the world was against him. Hed probably just kill himself alone. Typical sad Dylan stuff lol. I think Eric would have been angry if Dylan met a girl. She would have been an enemy in his eyes. It may have even drove him to want to hurt Dylan or his girl out of jealousy. "We can be sad together, but I won't let you be happy without me."

Actually, I think just the opposite. It was Dylan who got jealous over a friend having a girlfriend. Remember Zack Heckler? When he got a girlfriend Dylan got extremely depressed and jealous and even wrote about 'killing' Zack's girlfriend in his journal.

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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeWed Apr 22, 2015 3:06 am

I should have phrased it better. I know they'd both be jealous but the type of jealousy would be different IMO. Dylan would be the sad kind of jealous. Eric would be the angry type.
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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeWed Apr 22, 2015 7:06 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Let's take it one step further for a second: What would have happened to E/D's friendship if one of the boys had gotten laid or found a girlfriend? If it happened to Eric then Dylan would be devastated. Eric was the only friend he felt he had. E getting a girl would have made him certain that the world was against him. Hed probably just kill himself alone. Typical sad Dylan stuff lol. I think Eric would have been angry if Dylan met a girl. She would have been an enemy in his eyes. It may have even drove him to want to hurt Dylan or his girl out of jealousy. "We can be sad together, but I won't let you be happy without me."

I would tend to disagree. Perhaps if Eric found a girl before the whole van brake in mess, it would be like you wrote and the massacrewould never happen. But if it happened in 1998 or early 1999, Eric would just continue his sexual relationship, not tell the girl about the planned massacre and go on with it. Eric would lov that - "The amount of dramatic irony and foreshadowing is fucking amazing." is what would be his reaction.

I'm sure having a girlfriend, who is being kept in the dark about this and would be left behind - this would have ben a power-trip for him.

Eric having a steady girlfriend would be in some way a feather in his hat. He could then also state that he is doing the massacre not because he is a failure in life, that he could have a wonderfull normal everday life if he ever wanted, but instead he chose to go on with the massacre becuase of his own inner beliefs.

Dylan might have felt very distressed and suspicious of Eric if Eric had a girlfriend, he would pobably keep asking Eric if he really wants to go on with the massacre, if Eric will not leave him hanging a few ays before the shooting etc. He might have even try to press Eric to end the relationship.
I'm sure Eric would not end the relationship, btu would also not abandon his plans fot the massacre. I'm pretty sure Eric would in some way try to warn his girlfriend not to come to CHS on 20/4 if she happened to be a student.
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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeWed Apr 22, 2015 11:32 pm

I am one who thinks that yes, girlfriends could have made a positive difference. I believe this because it could have given them hope. Hope is such an important commodity in life. The hope for a better future is all that can keep a person hanging on to life at times.
I think everyone can agree that E &D had no hope in life to keep living.
Most disagree with me on this however.

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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeThu Apr 23, 2015 4:18 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I am one who thinks that yes, girlfriends could have made a positive difference. I believe this because it could have given them hope. Hope is such an important commodity in life. The hope for a better future is all that can keep a person hanging on to life at times.
I think everyone can agree that E &D had no hope in life to keep living.
Most disagree with me on this however.

I see what you mean and this might have been critical for Dylan.

Eric? Eric's issue was different Eric was not Dylan. Eric did not have problems with his self-image, he had problems living in society as it is. Hope for a better love/family future was not really what Eric needed or was particualry interested in. Eric wanted to get laid, but not getting laid was not his fundamental beef with life.

I think a girlfriend for Eric might have prevented columbine in a sesne if he met her before late 1997.If being with her would prevent him from becoming closer friends with Dylan, brakign into the van and then getting the killing spree idea from Dylan.

Would it make Eric happy and stable in the long run? No. But he might still be alive today, even if his fundamental beef with life would remain.

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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeThu Apr 23, 2015 7:21 pm

That's not completely true. Eric had some definite self image issues. He even admits to picking on people who look like him in his journal. Eric viewed the world as a place where only the big and strong survive. He wasnt big and strong though and he knew that and hated it. His anger toward society may have just been a misdirection so he could turn that hate on himself without having to fully admit to himself that he was a flawed person. He tried to outwardly blame the world for him not fitting in him, when in reality he internally hated and blamed himself for being different. There's multiple instances where he projects the problems he has with himself out into the world: Pickiing on people who look/act like him, hating liars but being one, etc. The biggest piece of evidence being that he killed himself. He's aid in his journal that "even we have to die". In some ways the massacre was a way for eric to eliminate his own weakness from the world. I believe Eric had severe self image issues, they were just of a different type than Dylan's.
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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeFri Apr 24, 2015 1:01 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I am one who thinks that yes, girlfriends could have made a positive difference. I believe this because it could have given them hope. Hope is such an important commodity in life. The hope for a better future is all that can keep a person hanging on to life at times.
I think everyone can agree that E &D had no hope in life to keep living.
Most disagree with me on this however.

Oh, I think you are spot-on about this, actually. Although the answer, "yes, to a degree," may seem like a trite response, I believe, along with you, that it is the correct one. Hope, as you allude, especially in those who have suicidal ideation, is central in keeping a person hanging on, as you write. For many, hope is the ONLY thing that keeps them going.

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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeFri Apr 24, 2015 4:13 pm

Reading between the lines, it's pretty obvious that Eric had self image issues. One point that always seems to be ignored (intentionally maybe?) while ''diagnosing'' Eric, is the fact that he was probably a cutter. I never kept notes of my research but I remember the pathologist mentioning that Eric had cuts on the inside of his upper arm (the part that is covered by a t-shirt) which suggested self-harm. Now i'm not a psychologist and, to be honest, far from being well informed in the reasons for this type of behavior. I do, however, know that it is commonly associated with self-hate and low self-esteem.
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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeSat Apr 25, 2015 8:21 am

Quote :
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Eric was a carefull planner
I disagree with that. He was in luck that he could carry on this massacre. He left many signs which might have thwarted his plan.
-After January 98 then they decided with Dylan that the massacre occurred he told his shrink that he had homicide and suicide thoughts so if you are determined to go on with your plans you don't do such things at all unless you try to scream for help.  
-Eric's bombs were full of shit it was mentioned many times on the board so I am not going to unfold it.
-Their weapons which they obtained were full of shit as well.
-They were very poor shooters they didn't practice too much either.
-Eric left a cassette tape on a counter in plain sight where anyone could have gotten a hold of it.
-He kept firearm, ammo, pipe bombs and all kind of stuff in his room and these were easy to find by his parents.
-He uploaded files into the schools servers an entire day before the shooting.
-He didn't have a plan B just in case there would be some problems with bombs.  
So as you can see he wasn't as careful as he should have been.


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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeSat Apr 25, 2015 10:31 am

To me, Eric is overrated and not nearly as interesting as people make him out to be anyway. He was far from being a crimininal mastermind and a mediocre manipulator at best. His philosophy is mostly taken from books, movies or music and not original at all. The only reason he was able to go through with the massacre was the unwillingness of his parents to see Eric for what he really was, and the sheer incompetence of his counselors, police and the school administration.

@Mysteryman wrote:
-Eric left a cassette tape on a counter in plain sight where anyone could have gotten a hold of it.

@Mysteryman wrote:
-He uploaded files into the schools servers an entire day before the shooting

I have often wondered about this. It puzzles me how anyone could be so reckless and risk getting caught mere hours before setting out to do what you always wanted. It's borderline retarded, which he wasn't...

This leads me to believe he was actively trying to sabotage the entire plan and tried to be stopped.
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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeSat Apr 25, 2015 11:03 am

MegaloX wrote:
This leads me to believe he was actively trying to sabotage the entire plan and tried to be stopped.

I've often thought that Eric deliberately uploaded the files and left the cassette tape as the ultimate "fuck you" to his family, the school, and everyone else; basically saying that "you guys are so stupid you couldn't even stop what I wanted to do even though the signs were all around you, you idiots." This line of thought may actually be giving Eric too much credit.

However, the more I think about it, perhaps he really did want to get caught, and stop the plan, but was afraid to tell Dylan and thus "planted" the evidence where anyone could have found it and foiled NBK. I'm pretty convinced that Dylan was hell-bent on killing himself one way or another, and NBK was one means to his end; I've argued with people before that had the massacre been averted, that Dylan would have sooner or later killed himself, probably during his college years, unless he had gotten some psychological help.

So the real question I suppose is, "Did Eric go through with this half-assed, ill-equipped, and destined-to-fail bombing just NOT to let his friend Dylan down and think he was a coward?" I don't know the answer, but Eric's apparent attempts (that we know of, I might add) to sabotage their plan might lead one to believe that.

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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeSat Apr 25, 2015 1:27 pm

SodaCanHalfwayOpen wrote:
So the real question I suppose is, "Did Eric go through with this half-assed, ill-equipped, and destined-to-fail bombing just NOT to let his friend Dylan down and think he was a coward?"

It wouldn't surprise me. If so, he must've felt terribly conflicted. At that point NBK was all he had. Eric bragged too much, planned too much, neglected too much (school & future), and was too proud to just stop what he was doing and go back to society. He would be totally unbelievable in Dylan's eyes. Therefore he would never tell him he had second doubts. His mindset was probably like, ''okay i'll leave a trail of obvious clues and either i get caught, and not lose face, or if that doesn't happen fate apparantly has other plans with me and the only thing left is just do it''.



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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeSat Apr 25, 2015 4:47 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Quote :
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Eric was a carefull planner
I disagree with that. He was in luck that he could carry on this massacre. He left many signs which might have thwarted his plan.
-After January 98 then they decided with Dylan that the massacre occurred he told his shrink that he had homicide and suicide thoughts so if you are determined to go on with your plans you don't do such things at all unless you try to scream for help.  
-Eric's bombs were full of shit it was mentioned many times on the board so I am not going to unfold it.
-Their weapons which they obtained were full of shit as well.
-They were very poor shooters they didn't practice too much either.
-Eric left a cassette tape on a counter in plain sight where anyone could have gotten a hold of it.
-He kept firearm, ammo, pipe bombs and all kind of stuff in his room and these were easy to find by his parents.
-He uploaded files into the schools servers an entire day before the shooting.
-He didn't have a plan B just in case there would be some problems with bombs.  
So as you can see he wasn't as careful as he should have been.

Well, he was able to plan ahead and execute the massacre. Extreme cases of psychopathy are people who have an inherent inability to plan ahead whatsoever. They are so impulsive and lack control to a degree that makes planning impossible. Eric's ability to plan may not look like much, but it certainly showcases this as his one very non-psychopathic trait.

If anyone wants to star building a case arging taht Eric was not a psychopath, the best and most solid argument would be: "He did not fail to plan ahead in a long perspective". Which is exactly what an extreme case of psychopathy would not allow him to do.

MegaloX wrote:
SodaCanHalfwayOpen wrote:
So the real question I suppose is, "Did Eric go through with this half-assed, ill-equipped, and destined-to-fail bombing just NOT to let his friend Dylan down and think he was a coward?"

It wouldn't surprise me. If so, he must've felt terribly conflicted. At that point NBK was all he had. Eric bragged too much, planned too much, neglected too much (school & future), and was too proud to just stop what he was doing and go back to society. He would be totally unbelievable in Dylan's eyes. Therefore he would never tell him he had second doubts. His mindset was probably like, ''okay i'll leave a trail of obvious clues and either i get caught, and not lose face, or if that doesn't happen fate apparantly has other plans with me and the only thing left is just do it''.

He wasn't conflicted, you are overthinking all of this. His actions make perfect sense ifone assumes he was a psychopath. Eric wrote that "the amount of foreshadowing and dramatic irony" was "fucking amazing". He got off at this. This is really as much a textbook, classic psychopathic behavior as you can get.

He felt superior and was very confident in his ability to fool everyone around him. He wanted to make people feel stupid about him pulling this of.

If I were planing a massacre as a psychopath, I'd be doing the same thing and then laughing at the people left behind in the wake of it all.

So yeah, to me this makes perfect sense, but it will make sense only if you assume that Eric was a psychopath and you interpret this as psychopathic behavior. Grandiose sense of self-worth, Pathological lying and Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom all mixed togeather.

SodaCanHalfwayOpen wrote:

So the real question I suppose is, "Did Eric go through with this half-assed, ill-equipped, and destined-to-fail bombing just NOT to let his friend Dylan down and think he was a coward?" I don't know the answer, but Eric's apparent attempts (that we know of, I might add) to sabotage their plan might lead one to believe that.

This might be overthinking the situation. I think the more simple answer is that Eric went on with the destined-to-fail bombing because he never assuemd it would fail. He had full confidence in his own invincibility and the greatness of his plans. He did not sabotage himself, he just left traces to let people know how dumb they are and how much he made fools out of them. That's really my take at it.

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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeSat Apr 25, 2015 5:16 pm

Yeah, I don't assume Eric was a psychopath.

@Sabratha wrote:
If I were planing a massacre as a psychopath, I'd be doing the same thing and then laughing at the people left behind in the wake of it all.

You'd leave a cassette deck containing a tape on which you explain mass murder, sitting on the kitchen table for your father to find in the morning? Sorry, that's too far of a stretch for me. If Wayne or Kathy were inquisitive or didn't respect Eric's privacy and played the tape... Sayonara NBK. Not even Hannibal Lecter could lie his ass out of that situation!

Eric was a lot of things, but being stupid or reckless wasn't one of them. Duper's delight? I don't think so. This was pure sabotage and a last cry for help that went unnoticed.

megaloX wrote:
Reading between the lines, it's pretty obvious that Eric had self image issues. One point that always seems to be ignored (intentionally maybe?) while ''diagnosing'' Eric, is the fact that he was probably a cutter. I never kept notes of my research but I remember the pathologist mentioning that Eric had cuts on the inside of his upper arm (the part that is covered by a t-shirt) which suggested self-harm. Now i'm not a psychologist and, to be honest, far from being well informed in the reasons for this type of behavior. I do, however, know that it is commonly associated with self-hate and low self-esteem.

Sabratha, didn't you study to become a psychologist? Well, care to share your insight on this post? I'd appreciate that.
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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeSat Apr 25, 2015 9:41 pm

This is what Eric himself wrote:

Everyone is always making fun of me because of how I look, how fucking weak I am and shit, well I will get you all back: ultimate fucking revenge here. you people could have shown more respect, treated me better, asked for my knowledge or guidence more, treated me more like senior, and maybe I wouldn't have been as ready to tear your fucking heads off. then again, I have always hated how I looked, I make fun of people who look like me, sometimes without even thinking sometimes just because I want to rip on myself. Thats where a lot of my hate grows from, the fact that I have practically no selfesteem, especially concerning girls and looks and such. therefore people make fun of me... constantly... therefore I get no respect and therefore I get fucking PISSED.

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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeSat Apr 25, 2015 9:48 pm

From The Denver Post (1999-12-14):

Here are excerpts from the videotapes made by Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, made available to the media and victims' families by the Jefferson County Sheriff's Office on Monday:

"You know who you are. Thanks. You made me feel good. Think about that for a while, f---ing bitches." - Harris, after listing five girls "who never even called me back."

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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeSun Apr 26, 2015 12:40 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
From The Denver Post (1999-12-14):

Here are excerpts from the videotapes made by Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, made available to the media and victims' families by the Jefferson County Sheriff's Office on Monday:

"You know who you are. Thanks. You made me feel good. Think about that for a while, f---ing bitches." - Harris, after listing five girls "who never even called me back."

Hi LPorter, so, are you suggesting that the answer to the question posed in this thread's title is "yes"?

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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeSun Apr 26, 2015 12:56 pm

Seems nearly certain IMO that the answer is "yes".

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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeSun Apr 26, 2015 5:59 pm

SodaCanHalfwayOpen wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
From The Denver Post (1999-12-14):

Here are excerpts from the videotapes made by Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, made available to the media and victims' families by the Jefferson County Sheriff's Office on Monday:

"You know who you are. Thanks. You made me feel good. Think about that for a while, f---ing bitches." - Harris, after listing five girls "who never even called me back."

Hi LPorter, so, are you suggesting that the answer to the question posed in this thread's title is "yes"?

I don't know if having a girlfriend would have solved all of Eric's problems, but I do think it would have helped him feel better about himself.

But what if he fell in love with someone and then she dumped him? He was not the type to take it well.

Cullen thinks Eric had boundless self-confidence. I think he had boundless self-loathing. Guys who have boundless self-loathing tend to externalize it - they start hating everything and everyone.

Lots of guys - especially weak "beta" types like Eric - put women on a pedestal and see them as the ultimate prize. They think that a man isn't a man unless he can snag a high-quality woman. Every time a woman rejects them, they take it personally - she's not merely saying, "Sorry, I'm not interested in you," but she's telling you that you're not a man.

Guys do all sorts of weird shit to prove that they're real men.
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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeSun Apr 26, 2015 9:53 pm







I don't think Eric would have done that as a FU to his family. As strange as this will sound with what happened, I think Eric loved his family and tried to leave words of comfort behind for them. Such words don't do much in such a situation but he did try.

SodaCanHalfwayOpen wrote:
MegaloX wrote:
This leads me to believe he was actively trying to sabotage the entire plan and tried to be stopped.

I've often thought that Eric deliberately uploaded the files and left the cassette tape as the ultimate "fuck you" to his family, the school, and everyone else; basically saying that "you guys are so stupid you couldn't even stop what I wanted to do even though the signs were all around you, you idiots." This line of thought may actually be giving Eric too much credit.

However, the more I think about it, perhaps he really did want to get caught, and stop the plan, but was afraid to tell Dylan and thus "planted" the evidence where anyone could have found it and foiled NBK. I'm pretty convinced that Dylan was hell-bent on killing himself one way or another, and NBK was one means to his end; I've argued with people before that had the massacre been averted, that Dylan would have sooner or later killed himself, probably during his college years, unless he had gotten some psychological help.

So the real question I suppose is, "Did Eric go through with this half-assed, ill-equipped, and destined-to-fail bombing just NOT to let his friend Dylan down and think he was a coward?" I don't know the answer, but Eric's apparent attempts (that we know of, I might add) to sabotage their plan might lead one to believe that.
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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeMon Apr 27, 2015 12:06 am

Eric definitely wanted to add insult to injury by leaving clues lying around, but that's was aimed at the human population in general. I think leaving things where his parents could possibly find them was a cry for help. His family were perhaps the only people he felt he could hope to have stop him, and even then pride wouldn't let him tell the truth to them. By leaving the Nixon tape out maybe he had hoped someone would hear it before the shooting started. His brother or one his parents could have come home and seen it and then found him or called the police. I've always felt Eric was way more saddened by what shit NBK could bring upon his family afterwards than Dylan was. It seems like his way of saying "I really did want you to see this and stop me. I'm sorry you didn't." The biggest piece of evidence towards that is the CHS logo on his bedrrom wall with a bomb drawing and clue written next to it hanging next to a spool of wire that's talked about being seen in the last frame of the BT. That alone is a weird thing for a kid (or anyone really) to have written on there wall. It SCREAMS trouble and I'm surprised his parents missed things like that.
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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeMon Apr 27, 2015 6:18 am

MegaloX wrote:

You'd leave a cassette deck containing a tape on which you explain mass murder, sitting on the kitchen table for your father to find in the morning? Sorry, that's too far of a stretch for me. If Wayne or Kathy were inquisitive or didn't respect Eric's privacy and played the tape... Sayonara NBK. Not even Hannibal Lecter could lie his ass out of that situation!

The casete was probably a sort of a suicide note. I would assume he left it there because he knew the habits of his parents well and knew they would not listen to his casettes, unless they heard about the shooting on TV or radio and started suspecting it was him.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
This is what Eric himself wrote:

Everyone is always making fun of me because of how I look, how fucking weak I am and shit, well I will get you all back: ultimate fucking revenge here. you people could have shown more respect, treated me better, asked for my knowledge or guidence more, treated me more like senior, and maybe I wouldn't have been as ready to tear your fucking heads off. then again, I have always hated how I looked, I make fun of people who look like me, sometimes without even thinking sometimes just because I want to rip on myself. Thats where a lot of my hate grows from, the fact that I have practically no selfesteem, especially concerning girls and looks and such. therefore people make fun of me... constantly... therefore I get no respect and therefore I get fucking PISSED.

That's a very good point! Certainly this is the sort of statement that could possibly be linked with the cut marks on the arm.

If anyone wants to make a case about Eric not being a psychopath, then the passage quoted above and Eric's ability to plan ahead are the two best pieces of information to build on.

However, I still think its a very long shot and that we have a much larger stack of evidence pointing to Eric's callous and impulsive psychopath-style behavioral pattern.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:

Lots of guys - especially weak "beta" types like Eric - put women on a pedestal and see them as the ultimate prize. They think that a man isn't a man unless he can snag a high-quality woman. Every time a woman rejects them, they take it personally - she's not merely saying, "Sorry, I'm not interested in you," but she's telling you that you're not a man.

While your input on Eric's self-confidence seems a valuable one, the pasage I quoted above honestly sounds like some pseudo-psychology PUA babble. There's no such thing as alpha or beta males or high and low quality women. That's PUA slang nonsense. No real psychology or even psychoanalysis professional believes in any of that.

As a side note - the vast majority of both men and women who get turned down by a person who they are very seriously interested in, take it personally. That's actually very sane, normal, non-disturbed behavior.

megaloX wrote:
Reading between the lines, it's pretty obvious that Eric had self image issues. One point that always seems to be ignored (intentionally maybe?) while ''diagnosing'' Eric, is the fact that he was probably a cutter. I never kept notes of my research but I remember the pathologist mentioning that Eric had cuts on the inside of his upper arm (the part that is covered by a t-shirt) which suggested self-harm. Now i'm not a psychologist and, to be honest, far from being well informed in the reasons for this type of behavior. I do, however, know that it is commonly associated with self-hate and low self-esteem.

(...)Sabratha, didn't you study to become a psychologist? Well, care to share your insight on this post? I'd appreciate that.

I was just about to respond that none of the evidence left behind would suggest Eric as a possible cutter, but what lPorter quoted could indeed be interpreted in this fashion.

I think the basic and necessary question is: were the marks really self-harm? I'd assume a pathologist would be able to identify these as such without too much difficulty. Rememeber  That Eric wasnear many explosions and was found with for example a would from his shotgun recoil, so its not entirely unusual to expect some other wounds.

The location of the would on the arm and the fact that its a cluster for cuts, migth suggest a wound caused by Eric trying to force open a door or otherwise smashing himself against some object during the massacre. I would not rule many other explanations, its all speculation at this point.

A more in-depth pathological statement would be needed and imho the fact that the autopsy never states that the wound is consistent with self-injury is significant. In other woulds the autopsy frequently mentions that a certain wound is "consistent with this-or-that".

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
The biggest piece of evidence towards that is the CHS logo on his bedrrom wall with a bomb drawing and clue written next to it hanging next to a spool of wire that's talked about being seen in the last frame of the BT. That alone is a weird thing for a kid (or anyone really) to have written on there wall. It SCREAMS trouble and I'm surprised his parents missed things like that.

I'm pretty sure he added this only at the last moment, probably on the mornign of the shooting if you ask me.
Imho this all points that Eric's comments about foreshadowing being "fucking amazing' was true and taht he was getting off on all of this very much.

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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeMon Apr 27, 2015 9:33 pm

Quote :
While your input on Eric's self-confidence seems a valuable one, the pasage I quoted above honestly sounds like some pseudo-psychology PUA babble. There's no such thing as alpha or beta males or high and low quality women. That's PUA slang nonsense. No real psychology or even psychoanalysis professional believes in any of that.

As a side note - the vast majority of both men and women who get turned down by a person who they are very seriously interested in, take it personally. That's actually very sane, normal, non-disturbed behavior.

Well, I meant "beta" in a kind of tongue-in-cheek way. And, yes, you're right - rejection hurts for everyone.

But if we're talking about a (relative) social loser who regards his utter lack of success in the sexual arena as evidence of his total lack of self-worth, then "beta" is as good a word as any.

("Omega" is another word for such a guy, but I don't think Eric was that bad off. Omegas are the obese Star Wars fans with pizza faces and high-pitched voices who don't even try to talk to girls.)

Eric did not get laid in high school. On prom night, he sat next to Susan DeWitt and felt her up as much as he could, but she kept her legs locked at the knee.

Dylan - ugly, smelly, gawky Dylan - got a date to the prom. (And Robyn asked him to go - he didn't have to beg anyone.)

And Eric asked several girls. He wasn't pining to go with his one true love - he wanted to take someone to the prom. But he wouldn't go with anyone.

Were there girls he didn't ask - say, fat girls with bad acne? Yes. Having a girl wasn't enough - he wanted a girl who met his standards, a girl who would make him look good. He didn't want to be seen with a girl who would make him look as desperate as he was.

Remember, it's not always about how the woman looks - it's how she makes the guy look.

This happened in college, but it's a good illustration of what I'm talking about:

It was the first day of the semester. I was walking to class when a very pretty freshman girl stopped me, saying that she was totally lost and needed to go to a certain building. I said, "It's near where I'm going, so walk with me and I'll show you where to go."

People were looking at us - I saw a couple of guys trying not to stare. She was a lot more attractive than I was - the petite (but not flat) cheerleader type you would expect to see hanging on a jock's arm.

We didn't talk much. She asked me a few questions about the college and I answered them as best as I could. She mentioned offhandedly that she had a boyfriend.

I walked her to the lobby of the building where she needed to go. She thanked me and then headed up the stairs and out of my life.

When I got to my class, a frat-boy type who'd never said two words to me came up to me and said, "Not bad, man!" He'd seen us walking together.

This guy and I had already taken three classes together, but that was the first time he even bothered to acknowledge my existence. Before that, I was a nobody to him. (Not that I cared - I've always been a loner.)

I wasn't even dating this girl - only walking across the campus with her - but being with her raised my social value, if only for a few minutes. People thought, "Gee, that guy must have something going for him if he can tap that."

Guys want to get laid, but they also want to look good to other guys.

I don't buy into the whole PUA thing, and I'm not a psychologist, but I can tell you that guys who are taller, handsomer, more athletic, and/or more confident have sex with the type of women most men find sexy a lot more often than guys who are shorter, uglier, less athletic, and/or less confident. That's the truth.

Height alone is a big part of it. A ripped 6'3" guy will do better than a pudgy 5'9" guy nearly every time. A pudgy 6'3" guy has a definite advantage over a pudgy 5'9" guy.

Will a ripped 5'9" guy do better than a pudgy 6'3" guy? Sometimes. But Eric wasn't ripped - he was scrawny.

Dylan was even scrawnier, taking into account his weight and height. But look at how he towered over Eric:
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Now, a pudgy 5'9" guy with a boatload of money can do a hell of a lot better than any guy, ripped or pudgy. But let's leave money aside for now.

There is a sexual/social totem pole. Not everyone is equally desirable.

Eric was not high on the Columbine pole - he was a senior, well-groomed, and fairly good-looking (by some standards, anyway), but he couldn't get a prom date. That says a lot.

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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeTue Apr 28, 2015 8:51 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
And Eric asked several girls. He wasn't pining to go with his one true love - he wanted to take someone to the prom. But he wouldn't go with anyone.

Were there girls he didn't ask - say, fat girls with bad acne? Yes. Having a girl wasn't enough - he wanted a girl who met his standards, a girl who would make him look good. He didn't want to be seen with a girl who would make him look as desperate as he was.

Remember, it's not always about how the woman looks - it's how she makes the guy look.

All true, probably also truee for 90% of male high school population. I still do not think any of this is terribly relevant as far as the shooting goes. The shooting was planned for over a year before 20/4/1999, that's for one. Moreover not getting laid or wanting to be seen with attractive women... that's really very regular normal stuff as far as adolescents go. Milions of teenagers have these sort of issues and do not go on a spree killing.

Columbine was a pretty unique event and if we want to understand it, we need to look at the rare and unusual traits and beliefs of the perpetraors. We need to look at what sets them apart from 90% of the teenage population, not at the part they have in commmon with 90% of their peers.

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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeTue Apr 28, 2015 9:51 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Dylan was even scrawnier, taking into account his weight and height. But look at how he towered over Eric:
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That's funny you mentioned that, I know every time I am driving around, or at the mall, and see two buddies walking together, one really tall, and one short, I always think about Dylan and Eric.

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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeMon May 18, 2015 3:56 am

[quote="MegaloX"]To me, Eric is overrated and not nearly as interesting as people make him out to be anyway. He was far from being a crimininal mastermind and a mediocre manipulator at best. His philosophy is mostly taken from books, movies or music and not original at all. The only reason he was able to go through with the massacre was the unwillingness of his parents to see Eric for what he really was, and the sheer incompetence of his counselors, police and the school administration.

I'm probably gonna get hate for it, but, yeah, they were both very unoriginal at times. They did take alot of their stuff from books, movies, music, etc. Even from other people. I've wondered, for example, how many times Zack came up w. a new idea or found a band, & they jumped aboard (esp. Dylan, in Zack's case). I think it's possible. I've even wondered if the foot fetish didn't originate from Pulp Fiction (Mia & the foot massage) or From Dusk Til Dawn (Selma Hayak giving Quentin Tarantino a foot), & the bondage fetish from Pulp Fiction (Bruce Willis & the other guy being bound), Natural Born Killers (the girl tied up in the motel room), or the NIN Closer video. Had he gotten the chance to experiment w. those things in real life, he may have found that wasn't his thing, perhaps better in the movies rabbit
[Just adding my two cents on that. Probably come back w/ a response to the original question.]
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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeMon May 18, 2015 6:23 am

myhumanity-0 wrote:
I'm probably gonna get hate for it, but, yeah, they were both very unoriginal at times. They did take alot of their stuff from books, movies, music, etc. Even from other people. I've wondered, for example, how many times Zack came up w. a new idea or found a band, & they jumped aboard (esp. Dylan, in Zack's case). I think it's possible. I've even wondered if the foot fetish didn't originate from Pulp Fiction (Mia & the foot massage) or From Dusk Til Dawn (Selma Hayak giving Quentin Tarantino a foot), & the bondage fetish from Pulp Fiction (Bruce Willis & the other guy being bound), Natural Born Killers (the girl tied up in the motel room), or the NIN Closer video. Had he gotten the chance to experiment w. those things in real life, he may have found that wasn't his thing, perhaps better in the movies rabbit
[Just adding my two cents on that. Probably come back w/ a response to the original question.]

Lol, why would you get hate? It's always nice to see new members add their two cents. Spice things up a little.

Or it was vice versa, and he was drawn to these movies because they spoke to his imagination. Devon Adams actually said that Dylan was quite original and unique. According to her it was Eric who followed Dylan when it came to stuff like music and fashion.
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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeMon May 18, 2015 11:03 am

Oh, you know how people can be sometimes ;)

Of course that was possible lol. It was just a thought, seeing as how they did get other things from various media. And believe me, I'm the first to admit Dylan was quite original & unique ;)
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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeMon May 18, 2015 3:49 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
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While your input on Eric's self-confidence seems a valuable one, the pasage I quoted above honestly sounds like some pseudo-psychology PUA babble. There's no such thing as alpha or beta males or high and low quality women. That's PUA slang nonsense. No real psychology or even psychoanalysis professional believes in any of that.

As a side note - the vast majority of both men and women who get turned down by a person who they are very seriously interested in, take it personally. That's actually very sane, normal, non-disturbed behavior.

Well, I meant "beta" in a kind of tongue-in-cheek way. And, yes, you're right - rejection hurts for everyone.

But if we're talking about a (relative) social loser who regards his utter lack of success in the sexual arena as evidence of his total lack of self-worth, then "beta" is as good a word as any.

("Omega" is another word for such a guy, but I don't think Eric was that bad off. Omegas are the obese Star Wars fans with pizza faces and high-pitched voices who don't even try to talk to girls.)

Eric did not get laid in high school. On prom night, he sat next to Susan DeWitt and felt her up as much as he could, but she kept her legs locked at the knee.

Dylan - ugly, smelly, gawky Dylan - got a date to the prom. (And Robyn asked him to go - he didn't have to beg anyone.)

And Eric asked several girls. He wasn't pining to go with his one true love - he wanted to take someone to the prom. But he wouldn't go with anyone.

Were there girls he didn't ask - say, fat girls with bad acne? Yes. Having a girl wasn't enough - he wanted a girl who met his standards, a girl who would make him look good. He didn't want to be seen with a girl who would make him look as desperate as he was.

Remember, it's not always about how the woman looks - it's how she makes the guy look.

This happened in college, but it's a good illustration of what I'm talking about:

It was the first day of the semester. I was walking to class when a very pretty freshman girl stopped me, saying that she was totally lost and needed to go to a certain building. I said, "It's near where I'm going, so walk with me and I'll show you where to go."

People were looking at us - I saw a couple of guys trying not to stare. She was a lot more attractive than I was - the petite (but not flat) cheerleader type you would expect to see hanging on a jock's arm.

We didn't talk much. She asked me a few questions about the college and I answered them as best as I could. She mentioned offhandedly that she had a boyfriend.

I walked her to the lobby of the building where she needed to go. She thanked me and then headed up the stairs and out of my life.

When I got to my class, a frat-boy type who'd never said two words to me came up to me and said, "Not bad, man!" He'd seen us walking together.

This guy and I had already taken three classes together, but that was the first time he even bothered to acknowledge my existence. Before that, I was a nobody to him. (Not that I cared - I've always been a loner.)

I wasn't even dating this girl - only walking across the campus with her - but being with her raised my social value, if only for a few minutes. People thought, "Gee, that guy must have something going for him if he can tap that."

Guys want to get laid, but they also want to look good to other guys.

I don't buy into the whole PUA thing, and I'm not a psychologist, but I can tell you that guys who are taller, handsomer, more athletic, and/or more confident have sex with the type of women most men find sexy a lot more often than guys who are shorter, uglier, less athletic, and/or less confident. That's the truth.

Height alone is a big part of it. A ripped 6'3" guy will do better than a pudgy 5'9" guy nearly every time. A pudgy 6'3" guy has a definite advantage over a pudgy 5'9" guy.

Will a ripped 5'9" guy do better than a pudgy 6'3" guy? Sometimes. But Eric wasn't ripped - he was scrawny.

Dylan was even scrawnier, taking into account his weight and height. But look at how he towered over Eric:
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Now, a pudgy 5'9" guy with a boatload of money can do a hell of a lot better than any guy, ripped or pudgy. But let's leave money aside for now.

There is a sexual/social totem pole. Not everyone is equally desirable.

Eric was not high on the Columbine pole - he was a senior, well-groomed, and fairly good-looking (by some standards, anyway), but he couldn't get a prom date. That says a lot.

Pretty accurate assessment IMO as to which guys do & don't get the girls.

Even more so in HS it's about status/popularity. That's what I feel really hurt EH. I've read in a few places how he "scared" people off by his behavior. Personality aside, EH likely would've grown up to be a guy who had plenty of options later in life.
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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeWed May 20, 2015 8:09 am

MegaloX wrote:
It came to stuff like music and fashion.

From what I know they all influenced one another. IIRC correctly Eric was the one who introduced german indistrial music to the group, but clothing-wise they were basically all imitating Joe Stair and the older TCM people afaik.

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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeWed May 20, 2015 12:31 pm

@Sabratha wrote:
MegaloX wrote:
It came to stuff like music and fashion.

From what I know they all influenced one another. IIRC correctly Eric was the one who introduced german indistrial music to the group, but clothing-wise they were basically all imitating Joe Stair and the older TCM people afaik.

Sure, everything is a copy of a copy. Eric introducing industrial music to the group, however, is only an assumption. I've never encountered this in the offical documents or anywhere. One could also say that it was Dylan who found out about Rammstein while watching Lost Highway. This is mere speculation too.

I'm not sure they imitated Joe Stair either, when it came to dress style or fashion. Eric maybe, Dylan not. The old TCM people were obviously gothic. Besides the black trenchcoats, E&D weren't. Dylan actually dressed pretty casual or more grunge like.
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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeWed May 20, 2015 12:50 pm

I think they were both influenced somewhat from Chris Morris.

Is it really a coincidence that Morris and Dylan had the same exact sunglasses? Correct me if I'm wrong about that.

Dylan got his trench in Sep '97. Eric around '98 in his junior year.
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PostSubject: Re: Would a girlfriend made any difference?   Would a girlfriend made any difference? Icon_minitimeWed May 20, 2015 1:05 pm

Yes, if Eric and Dylan did follow or looked up to anyone it would be Chris Morris. Lots of people mentioned this in the 11k too. Chris would talk and E&D listened.

The sunglassed do look the same. Maybe they were Dylan's. Apparently the boys would lend stuff to friends. (shirts, cd's, movies etc.)
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