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 If you wrote a book about Columbine

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Screamingophelia
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PostSubject: If you wrote a book about Columbine   If you wrote a book about Columbine Icon_minitimeMon Jan 15, 2018 5:42 pm

I’m not considering doing so, but if you yourself wrote a book about Columbine - do you think you’d get as much grief on here as Dave Cullen seems to get?

I was just reading random threads and have seen the various different opinions we all seem to have as to why it happened.

I guess if you ever wrote a book, your personal ideas of why things happened would obviously come across in it, which not everyone would agree with.

Is anyone who writes a book in for a slating? Heck, even the people who were actually there have been pulled up for stuff that others strongly disagree with (ie Brooks, Sue).
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PostSubject: Re: If you wrote a book about Columbine   If you wrote a book about Columbine Icon_minitimeMon Jan 15, 2018 6:14 pm

My first thought is unauthorized story of Eric Harris...try to get a feel for his childhood etc. put together an unbiased profile.

Another one would be about how survivors are now when it comes to things like friendships, relationships and intimacy. Also how are they as parents now (I’d talk to Robyn, Nate and Brooks) as well as those injured l.

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Littlelo

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PostSubject: Re: If you wrote a book about Columbine   If you wrote a book about Columbine Icon_minitimeMon Jan 15, 2018 6:31 pm

If you write a Columbine book, you will never be able to please EVERYONE. That's almost guaranteed.

The question is: do you take a hard stance and put your opinion out there like Cullen did, or do you try to remain as impartial as possible? It's tough to introduce every single theory/opinion/perspective. IMO it's almost easier to put your own bias or opinion out there and be un-apologetic about it.

I'm sure I'd enjoy something written by a seasoned member of this forum, given that they likely have spent hours and hours researching and delving into things a lot of others haven't.
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PostSubject: Re: If you wrote a book about Columbine   If you wrote a book about Columbine Icon_minitimeTue Jan 16, 2018 6:17 am

Littlelo wrote:
If you write a Columbine book, you will never be able to please EVERYONE. That's almost guaranteed.

The question is: do you take a hard stance and put your opinion out there like Cullen did, or do you try to remain as impartial as possible? It's tough to introduce every single theory/opinion/perspective. IMO it's almost easier to put your own bias or opinion out there and be un-apologetic about it.

I'm sure I'd enjoy something written by a seasoned member of this forum, given that they likely have spent hours and hours researching and delving into things a lot of others haven't.

Agreed. There is no possible was to realistically cover every angle or view point of Columbine. UNLESS you embark on one EPIC book, or a series of books. Which by the way I would read the hell out of if someone ever did write! Haha

Also I think it would be hard to try to write something and not be a little opinionated on the topic. I know a lot of people give Cullen shit for his book, myself included. BUT Columbine was a decent read, as long as you were familiar enough with the case and could tell what was fact and what was fiction.
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PostSubject: Re: If you wrote a book about Columbine   If you wrote a book about Columbine Icon_minitimeTue Jan 16, 2018 6:18 am

Screamingophelia wrote:
My first thought is unauthorized story of Eric Harris...try to get a feel for his childhood etc. put together an unbiased profile.

Another one would be about how survivors are now when it comes to things like friendships, relationships and intimacy. Also how are they as parents now (I’d talk to Robyn, Nate and Brooks) as well as those injured l.



YES! Eric's full story NEEDS to be told.
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PostSubject: Re: If you wrote a book about Columbine   If you wrote a book about Columbine Icon_minitimeTue Jan 16, 2018 8:07 am

I would write a book about schools environment bullying etc.
Book about Eric first ya need words from his family and friends ,teachers like interview them how he was and so on but we know how the Harris feel about that but I think there’s a chance I think all what they need someone who’s not“ Bullshitting” (sry for the word). Do you think Kevin digs into columbine like read books about that? I can imagine him writing a book ... maybe even including Dylan’s brother Byron in it ? They could write together what ya think?
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PostSubject: soogless   If you wrote a book about Columbine Icon_minitimeTue Jan 16, 2018 10:28 am

Draw_It_White wrote:
I’m not considering doing so, but if you yourself wrote a book about Columbine - do you think you’d get as much grief on here as Dave Cullen seems to get?

I was just reading random threads and have seen the various different opinions we all seem to have as to why it happened.

I guess if you ever wrote a book, your personal ideas of why things happened would obviously come across in it, which not everyone would agree with.

Is anyone who writes a book in for a slating? Heck, even the people who were actually there have been pulled up for stuff that others strongly disagree with (ie Brooks, Sue).

Cullen's biggest problems are 1)"Eric got lots and lots of chicks", 2)"Eric made Dylan do it" (tied into an overwhelmingly positive portrayal of Dylan as a "sweet, loving kid"--Cullen's actual words, you understand) 3)"Bullying had nothing to do with it; the boys' personality problems (psychopath/depressive) are the entire explanation for what happened."

It's just too difficult for me to think that the ugly environment of the school didn't play a part in E&D's desire to go after Columbine. There are simply too many stories of an ugly environment at the school. Cullen doesn't blame the school for anything. He tries to claim that E&D did more bullying than they were bullied themselves, but that doesn't mean bulling wasn't a factor. I think you can simply be AROUND bullying and be miffed by it. It is true that there are not that many hard-evidence examples of the two of them being severely humiliated. Cullen also wants to claim that jock bullies were not the explanation because E&D didn't go blow up a football game or something. Cullen claims he himself was bullied in high school (note: all of this stuff is in the appendix to the expanded 2016 version of the book) for being gay among other things, so his whole reason for wanting to destroy the jock-bullying accusations have to do with his notion that the media got everything wrong and spread lies.

I don't hate Cullen's book either, nor do I hate Cullen. But the flaws are very glaring, and when you look at the history of acclaimed/best-selling true-crime books, you'll find this happens to the best-known of them:

"In Cold Blood" - Capote fabricated scenes for this book, such as an end scene where someone talks to someone else at the Clutter grave. Made up completely.
"Helter Skelter" - Vincent Bugliosi has been accused of aggrandizing himself and making himself look like a white knight for this engrossing read.
"Zodiac" - Robert Graysmith desperately wants all of the (all circumstantial) evidence against Arthur Leigh Allen to definitively prove that Allen was the Zodiac and he distorted stuff to get to that point. He also is an absolutely god awful writer, who writes as if he were trying to scare a bunch of 12 year olds sitting around a campfire.
JFK assassination - I'm sure entire novels could, and have been written, about what's wrong with the conspiracy theories proffered by JFK assassination books.

I'm sure you can all think of some others.

As for Brooks' book, the negative portrayal of Brooks on this forum had me questioning some of the things he put in his book; in particular, a scene where he confronts Frank DeAngelis at graduation and tells him off for allowing a culture of cruelty to fester at Columbine rang a bit false to me, but what do I know?
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PostSubject: Re: If you wrote a book about Columbine   If you wrote a book about Columbine Icon_minitimeTue Jan 16, 2018 10:45 am

ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
My first thought is unauthorized story of Eric Harris...try to get a feel for his childhood etc. put together an unbiased profile.

Another one would be about how survivors are now when it comes to things like friendships, relationships and intimacy. Also how are they as parents now (I’d talk to Robyn, Nate and Brooks) as well as those injured l.



YES! Eric's full story NEEDS to be told.

Could you imagine Kathy and Kevin writing in the book "I think Eric was getting angrier after that Dylan kid convinced him to break into a van. We thought Dylan was a good influence but we read the angry things he wrote in Eric's yearbook..."

I wonder what the Klebolds would say?
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PostSubject: Re: If you wrote a book about Columbine   If you wrote a book about Columbine Icon_minitimeTue Jan 16, 2018 10:47 am

Screamingophelia wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
My first thought is unauthorized story of Eric Harris...try to get a feel for his childhood etc. put together an unbiased profile.

Another one would be about how survivors are now when it comes to things like friendships, relationships and intimacy. Also how are they as parents now (I’d talk to Robyn, Nate and Brooks) as well as those injured l.



YES! Eric's full story NEEDS to be told.

Could you imagine Kathy and Kevin writing in the book "I think Eric was getting angrier after that Dylan kid convinced him to break into a van. We thought Dylan was a good influence but we read the angry things he wrote in Eric's yearbook..."

I wonder what the Klebolds would say?

It's funny because that's pretty much what the Harris's had to read in AMR. Sue makes a point to say she does not think Columbine would have happened without Eric. She also talks about his influence on Dylan.
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PostSubject: Re: If you wrote a book about Columbine   If you wrote a book about Columbine Icon_minitimeTue Jan 16, 2018 10:54 am

Littlelo wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
My first thought is unauthorized story of Eric Harris...try to get a feel for his childhood etc. put together an unbiased profile.

Another one would be about how survivors are now when it comes to things like friendships, relationships and intimacy. Also how are they as parents now (I’d talk to Robyn, Nate and Brooks) as well as those injured l.



YES! Eric's full story NEEDS to be told.

Could you imagine Kathy and Kevin writing in the book "I think Eric was getting angrier after that Dylan kid convinced him to break into a van. We thought Dylan was a good influence but we read the angry things he wrote in Eric's yearbook..."

I wonder what the Klebolds would say?

It's funny because that's pretty much what the Harris's had to read in AMR. Sue makes a point to say she does not think Columbine would have happened without Eric. She also talks about his influence on Dylan.  

I wish Wayne or Kathy would have commented on it.

I don’t think it would have happened without either of them.

I did love AMR and I respect Sue tremendously but my heart does go out to the Harris’s
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PostSubject: Re: If you wrote a book about Columbine   If you wrote a book about Columbine Icon_minitimeTue Jan 16, 2018 5:17 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
I wish Wayne or Kathy would have commented on it. 

The thing is they don't care about Eric anymore. He killed people, so they're eager to wash their hands of any kind of association with him. If Sue wants to insinuate that Eric was a psychopath they don't consider that their problem.

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PostSubject: Re: If you wrote a book about Columbine   If you wrote a book about Columbine Icon_minitimeTue Jan 16, 2018 5:21 pm

QuestionMark wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
I wish Wayne or Kathy would have commented on it. 

The thing is they don't care about Eric anymore.

Sorry I just find that hard to believe. In my opinion they likely excepted his psychopathy as a means to come to terms with or understand how a child they loved and raised could do the things he did. BUT that in no way means they didn't love or care about him.
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PostSubject: Re: If you wrote a book about Columbine   If you wrote a book about Columbine Icon_minitimeTue Jan 16, 2018 5:46 pm

ShadowedGoddess wrote:
QuestionMark wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
I wish Wayne or Kathy would have commented on it. 

The thing is they don't care about Eric anymore.

Sorry I just find that hard to believe. In my opinion they likely excepted his psychopathy as a means to come to terms with or understand how a child they loved and raised could do the things he did. BUT that in no way means they didn't love or care about him.

I agree with you. I am really looking forward to the depositions coming out. I hope we learn a lot more. And I bet that’s the only time the Harris’s and Klebolds both really saw

I would imagine Wayne was able to forget about Eric a lot easier than Kathy, who knows what he really feels?

Look at how Tom has never spoken out, but we believe he still loves Dylan.
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PostSubject: Re: If you wrote a book about Columbine   If you wrote a book about Columbine Icon_minitimeTue Jan 16, 2018 7:27 pm

I also believe the Harris family still loves Eric. I think the one thing people latch onto is that they had a PI collect his body at the funeral home and did not have a service for him. But we don't know all the details, and Sue herself said they almost didn't have a funeral for Dylan. She was glad they had talked her into it.
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PostSubject: Re: If you wrote a book about Columbine   If you wrote a book about Columbine Icon_minitimeTue Jan 16, 2018 8:08 pm

Littlelo wrote:
I also believe the Harris family still loves Eric. I think the one thing people latch onto is that they had a PI collect his body at the funeral home and did not have a service for him. But we don't know all the details, and Sue herself said they almost didn't have a funeral for Dylan. She was glad they had talked her into it.

The news caught wind of Dylan's funeral and the Harris's were so private I imagine they didn't want to risk anything.

It would be nice to think that maybe Eric's ashes are in Michigan or New York where he was happy.

It is so interesting to me the change in him when he moved to Colorado. The people who knew Dylan longer would say Eric was the bad influence but I guarantee if you talk to the people who knew Eric before he moved to Littleton they would ask about Dylan's influence on him.
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PostSubject: Re: If you wrote a book about Columbine   If you wrote a book about Columbine Icon_minitimeWed Jan 17, 2018 7:20 am

Screamingophelia wrote:
It is so interesting to me the change in him when he moved to Colorado. The people who knew Dylan longer would say Eric was the bad influence but I guarantee if you talk to the people who knew Eric before he moved to Littleton they would ask about Dylan's influence on him.

I completely agree on that.  Eric did seem quite normal BEFORE that last move. At least on the surface.
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PostSubject: Re: If you wrote a book about Columbine   If you wrote a book about Columbine Icon_minitimeWed Jan 17, 2018 7:40 am

In a lot of his writings for school he talked about good memories with friends from his old schools. It makes me sad because he even mentioned them in one of the basement tapes. I think he felt a connection to somewhere other than Littleton, and maybe he could have been happy enough to move past his anger and sadness if he hadn't moved to CO.
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PostSubject: Re: If you wrote a book about Columbine   If you wrote a book about Columbine Icon_minitimeWed Jan 17, 2018 7:42 am

Ugh I wish I could talk to the harrisses and help them out Sad I think they’re afraid of publicity since they talked shi about their son like he was a psychopath a monster and so on
The reason his parents accept him as a psychopath because they heard that often and they started To believe that too. They’re afraid of shitstorm . I really wish they could talk . But on the other side I understand them.


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PostSubject: Re: If you wrote a book about Columbine   If you wrote a book about Columbine Icon_minitimeWed Jan 17, 2018 8:02 am

Littlelo wrote:
In a lot of his writings for school he talked about good memories with friends from his old schools. It makes me sad because he even mentioned them in one of the basement tapes. I think he felt a connection to somewhere other than Littleton, and maybe he could have been happy enough to move past his anger and sadness if he hadn't moved to CO.

It is clear that Eric never really considered Littleton as his home. The people who knew him before that last move paint an entirely different picture of him. Most were shocked that he could have done the things he did. In my opinion Eric clung to the last places he was happy and excepted, which definitely wasn't Littleton Colorado.
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PostSubject: Re: If you wrote a book about Columbine   If you wrote a book about Columbine Icon_minitimeWed Jan 17, 2018 8:04 am

ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Littlelo wrote:
In a lot of his writings for school he talked about good memories with friends from his old schools. It makes me sad because he even mentioned them in one of the basement tapes. I think he felt a connection to somewhere other than Littleton, and maybe he could have been happy enough to move past his anger and sadness if he hadn't moved to CO.

It is clear that Eric never really considered Littleton as his home.  The people who knew him before that last move paint an entirely different picture of him. Most were shocked that he could have done the things he did.  In my opinion Eric clung to the last places he was happy and excepted, which definitely wasn't Littleton Colorado.

Agree 100%. I wonder if at some point he thought he could go back to the places that made him happier and reconnect with people after high school, before he decided NBK was his only option.
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PostSubject: Re: If you wrote a book about Columbine   If you wrote a book about Columbine Icon_minitimeWed Jan 17, 2018 8:09 am

Littlelo wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Littlelo wrote:
In a lot of his writings for school he talked about good memories with friends from his old schools. It makes me sad because he even mentioned them in one of the basement tapes. I think he felt a connection to somewhere other than Littleton, and maybe he could have been happy enough to move past his anger and sadness if he hadn't moved to CO.

It is clear that Eric never really considered Littleton as his home.  The people who knew him before that last move paint an entirely different picture of him. Most were shocked that he could have done the things he did.  In my opinion Eric clung to the last places he was happy and excepted, which definitely wasn't Littleton Colorado.

Agree 100%. I wonder if at some point he thought he could go back to the places that made him happier and reconnect with people after high school, before he decided NBK was his only option.

I feel like it is another "what if" he talks in the Basement Tapes about how he wishes he could go back to Michigan. What if he decided to go for the weekend and connected with his friends, he felt accepted and decided against NBK and to move there after graduation?
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PostSubject: Re: If you wrote a book about Columbine   If you wrote a book about Columbine Icon_minitimeWed Jan 17, 2018 8:15 am

Littlelo wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Littlelo wrote:
In a lot of his writings for school he talked about good memories with friends from his old schools. It makes me sad because he even mentioned them in one of the basement tapes. I think he felt a connection to somewhere other than Littleton, and maybe he could have been happy enough to move past his anger and sadness if he hadn't moved to CO.

It is clear that Eric never really considered Littleton as his home.  The people who knew him before that last move paint an entirely different picture of him. Most were shocked that he could have done the things he did.  In my opinion Eric clung to the last places he was happy and excepted, which definitely wasn't Littleton Colorado.

Agree 100%. I wonder if at some point he thought he could go back to the places that made him happier and reconnect with people after high school, before he decided NBK was his only option.


Its likely that he did think about moving back. It wouldn't have been impossible for him to have done it, IF he hadn't been so fixated on the anger and NBK by that time.

BUT in all honesty what would have come back to town IF Eric had managed to get his shit together enough to have went back? By that point Eric had been on his own "Downward spiral" for years. So it wouldn't have been the same old Eric, it would have been the rage filled, angry with the world, Reb who moved back.
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PostSubject: Re: If you wrote a book about Columbine   If you wrote a book about Columbine Icon_minitimeWed Jan 17, 2018 8:16 am

Very true SG. He wanted to see old friends but he probably didn't realize he wasn't even the same person anymore. They would have been very surprised at the changes in him since his move to CO.
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PostSubject: Re: If you wrote a book about Columbine   If you wrote a book about Columbine Icon_minitimeWed Jan 17, 2018 8:19 am

Littlelo wrote:
Very true SG. He wanted to see old friends but he probably didn't realize he wasn't even the same person anymore. They would have been very surprised at the changes in him since his move to CO.

Also how would that have effected him? If the only place he did feel like he fit in and was happy no longer accepted him or what he had become. scratch
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PostSubject: Re: If you wrote a book about Columbine   If you wrote a book about Columbine Icon_minitimeWed Jan 17, 2018 8:20 am

ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Littlelo wrote:
Very true SG. He wanted to see old friends but he probably didn't realize he wasn't even the same person anymore. They would have been very surprised at the changes in him since his move to CO.

Also how would that have effected him? If the only place he did feel like he fit in and was happy no longer accepted him or what he had become. scratch

Maybe that's why he knew he couldn't go back....
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PostSubject: Re: If you wrote a book about Columbine   If you wrote a book about Columbine Icon_minitimeWed Jan 17, 2018 8:28 am

Littlelo wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Littlelo wrote:
Very true SG. He wanted to see old friends but he probably didn't realize he wasn't even the same person anymore. They would have been very surprised at the changes in him since his move to CO.

Also how would that have effected him? If the only place he did feel like he fit in and was happy no longer accepted him or what he had become. scratch

Maybe that's why he knew he couldn't go back....

You’re right, Eric changed so much and who know what kind of head space his old friends were in?

He did move to Littleton when he was pretty young, 12 I think?
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PostSubject: Re: If you wrote a book about Columbine   If you wrote a book about Columbine Icon_minitimeWed Jan 17, 2018 12:51 pm

ShadowedGoddess wrote:
QuestionMark wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
I wish Wayne or Kathy would have commented on it. 

The thing is they don't care about Eric anymore.

Sorry I just find that hard to believe. 

I don't. Eric killed people. In their minds, that means they shouldn't love him anymore. That's why I think they don't speak out about any positive qualities he may have had. It would be seen as legitimizing him and his actions.

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PostSubject: Re: If you wrote a book about Columbine   If you wrote a book about Columbine Icon_minitimeWed Jan 17, 2018 12:55 pm

QuestionMark wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:
QuestionMark wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
I wish Wayne or Kathy would have commented on it. 

The thing is they don't care about Eric anymore.

Sorry I just find that hard to believe. 

I don't. Eric killed people. In their minds, that means they shouldn't love him anymore. That's why I think they don't speak out about any positive qualities he may have had. It would be seen as legitimizing him and his actions.

This is why I eagerly await the Depositions. The Harris's have never spoken about Columbine, and until the release of those court documents all we can do is speculate either way.
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