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 Reaching Out?

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Screamingophelia
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PostSubject: Reaching Out?   Reaching Out? Icon_minitimeThu Mar 15, 2018 10:38 pm

So I have been thinking a bit about how so many people say "you should reach out to kids that seem troubled, you could stop violence, make them feel less isolated.' I think the general consensus about Columbine and Eric and Dylan at least is that there was bullying and a bullying culture at the school. However I think Dylan especially is a bit of an exception because on the surface he seemed to have a group of friends (Devon, Eric, Nate, Zach and Robyn) Eric had Dylan, Chris and Nate (even though they fought over Kristi, Nate still thanked Eric and Dylan in the yearbook senior year for being great friends) yet to his other peers he seemed to be a scary loner.

I think unless there was a genuine feeling of connection or as far as a female attraction, any attempt at "reaching out" and saying "hey, you're okay, I like you champ" would be met with eye rolls and scoffs. I think there is something in the 11k where a girl tried to be Dylan's science partner and was all "aww, I'll be your friend and partner" and he got irritated. I can understand that to be honest.

I am not sure about the other school shooters, I am not sure if Kip Kinkel or T.J Layne could have been swayed by kind words.

Though I am of course not saying that people should continue to bully or be assholes to each other, but really if Devon and Susan and their kindness and friendship to the boys couldn't sway them from the massacre, how could some random stranger patting them on the back saying "don't worry!" help?
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QuestionMark
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PostSubject: Re: Reaching Out?   Reaching Out? Icon_minitimeThu Mar 15, 2018 11:19 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
I am not sure about the other school shooters,  I am not sure if Kip Kinkel or T.J Layne could have been swayed by kind words.

Taking a look at the both of them, I think both of their respective issues were too bad to have been solved through kindness alone. TJ in particular would have been swayed little; the people he killed were his friends.

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Screamingophelia
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PostSubject: Re: Reaching Out?   Reaching Out? Icon_minitimeThu Mar 15, 2018 11:27 pm

QuestionMark wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
I am not sure about the other school shooters,  I am not sure if Kip Kinkel or T.J Layne could have been swayed by kind words.

Taking a look at the both of them, I think both of their respective issues were too bad to have been solved through kindness alone. TJ in particular would have been swayed little; the people he killed were his friends.

That's interesting, I'm not overly familiar with TJ Layne.

Dylan let people he liked go and I have read many people assume if Robyn, Devon or Nate ended up in the library and he saw them he would have snapped out of it


Last edited by Screamingophelia on Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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sororityalpha
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PostSubject: Re: Reaching Out?   Reaching Out? Icon_minitimeFri Mar 16, 2018 4:05 pm

Good point [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Many factors can affect someone's decision towards homicide/suicide.

Societal supports can help as well as personal factors regarding money, location, personal relationships, etc. but even with all of that someone can still go on a shooting rampage.

There really is not a simple solution but trying to help someone NOT do it is definitely a good thing.
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Screamingophelia
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PostSubject: Re: Reaching Out?   Reaching Out? Icon_minitimeFri Mar 16, 2018 4:47 pm

Exactly. You can’t lose if you’re a nice person to someone.

In response to the walk out of movements someone had said why don’t you walk up and make friends with someone and a lot of people on my Facebook page are like that’s victim blaming. No it’s not!!

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PostSubject: Re: Reaching Out?   Reaching Out? Icon_minitimeFri Mar 16, 2018 6:18 pm

pretending to be nice to the quiet kid doesnt help him. he cam probably see your not sincere
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PostSubject: Re: Reaching Out?   Reaching Out? Icon_minitimeMon Mar 19, 2018 9:12 am

Eric once stated that if he got compliments NBK wouldn't happen. I don't believe that for a minute. I think things went well on past that point.

I think if anything were to change them it would have had to have happened very early on. Once they hit junior year they were both so jaded I don't think any amount of kindness, compliments, or love could do anything

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Screamingophelia
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PostSubject: Re: Reaching Out?   Reaching Out? Icon_minitimeMon Mar 19, 2018 9:21 am

Lizpuff wrote:
Eric once stated that if he got compliments NBK wouldn't happen.  I don't believe that for a minute.  I think things went well on past that point.

I think if anything were to change them it would have had to have happened very early on.  Once they hit junior year they were both so jaded I don't think any amount of kindness, compliments, or love could do anything

There was something I read yesterday that Devon wrote in a public post that touches on this. She does wonder if she told Dylan how much she loved him and spent more time with him if that would have helped, but also if she stopped being afraid of Eric and reached out to him if that would have made a difference.

I agree about Junior year being their downfall. Even early in the first semester Junior year maybe there could have been a switch but after the van incident it was all downhill.
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PostSubject: Re: Reaching Out?   Reaching Out? Icon_minitimeMon Mar 19, 2018 3:27 pm

eldigato wrote:
pretending to be nice to the quiet kid doesnt help him. he cam probably see your not sincere

Agreed. If you treat someone like they are some charity case then they would likely resent that just as much as being ignored.  

Although there is a right and a wrong way to go about this. It doesn't have to be you proclaiming you are there to rescue them from a life of loneliness. Or by being disingenuously friendly.

But seriously how hard is it to give someone a simple smile, a wave , or just say "Hi"?  That literally costs you nothing.
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Screamingophelia
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PostSubject: Re: Reaching Out?   Reaching Out? Icon_minitimeMon Mar 19, 2018 3:58 pm

ShadowedGoddess wrote:
eldigato wrote:
pretending to be nice to the quiet kid doesnt help him. he cam probably see your not sincere

Agreed. If you treat someone like they are some charity case then they would likely resent that just as much as being ignored.  

Although there is a right and a wrong way to go about this. It doesn't have to be you proclaiming you are there to rescue them from a life of loneliness. Or by being disingenuously friendly.

But seriously how hard is it to give someone a simple smile, a wave , or just say "Hi"?  That literally costs you nothing.

Definitely. I had a lot of very fake reaching out in high school but there were a few people that genuinely would be nice to me and even though we didn’t become friends it always meant a lot to me.

That’s why I think with them what Devon wrote was so important. I also think if a lot of the bullying didn’t happen maybe they would’ve felt a little more connected. I think even Dylan’s mom and dad said they didn’t want him to be suspended for the computer hacking because they wanted to Dylan to feel connected to his school
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PostSubject: Re: Reaching Out?   Reaching Out? Icon_minitimeMon Mar 19, 2018 7:01 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
So I have been thinking a bit about how so many people say "you should reach out to kids that seem troubled, you could stop violence, make them feel less isolated.' I think the general consensus about Columbine and Eric and Dylan at least is that there was bullying and a bullying culture at the school. However I think Dylan especially is a bit of an exception because on the surface he seemed to have a group of friends (Devon, Eric, Nate, Zach and Robyn) Eric had Dylan, Chris and Nate (even though they fought over Kristi, Nate still thanked Eric and Dylan in the yearbook senior year for being great friends) yet to his other peers he seemed to be a scary loner.

I think unless there was a genuine feeling of connection or as far as a female attraction, any attempt at "reaching out" and saying "hey, you're okay, I like you champ" would be met with eye rolls and scoffs. I think there is something in the 11k where a girl tried to be Dylan's science partner and was all "aww, I'll be your friend and partner" and he got irritated. I can understand that to be honest.

I am not sure about the other school shooters,  I am not sure if Kip Kinkel or T.J Layne could have been swayed by kind words.

Though I am of course not saying that people should continue to bully or be assholes to each other, but really if Devon and Susan and their kindness and friendship to the boys couldn't sway them from the massacre, how could some random stranger patting them on the back saying "don't worry!" help?


Both of these kids had better "support" and surroundings than 99.9% of the world. They were severely flawed, psychotherapy or incarceration might have stopped it, but kindness would have been ignored or taken for granted.
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Screamingophelia
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PostSubject: Re: Reaching Out?   Reaching Out? Icon_minitimeMon Mar 19, 2018 7:07 pm

Fatheroftwo wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
So I have been thinking a bit about how so many people say "you should reach out to kids that seem troubled, you could stop violence, make them feel less isolated.' I think the general consensus about Columbine and Eric and Dylan at least is that there was bullying and a bullying culture at the school. However I think Dylan especially is a bit of an exception because on the surface he seemed to have a group of friends (Devon, Eric, Nate, Zach and Robyn) Eric had Dylan, Chris and Nate (even though they fought over Kristi, Nate still thanked Eric and Dylan in the yearbook senior year for being great friends) yet to his other peers he seemed to be a scary loner.

I think unless there was a genuine feeling of connection or as far as a female attraction, any attempt at "reaching out" and saying "hey, you're okay, I like you champ" would be met with eye rolls and scoffs. I think there is something in the 11k where a girl tried to be Dylan's science partner and was all "aww, I'll be your friend and partner" and he got irritated. I can understand that to be honest.

I am not sure about the other school shooters,  I am not sure if Kip Kinkel or T.J Layne could have been swayed by kind words.

Though I am of course not saying that people should continue to bully or be assholes to each other, but really if Devon and Susan and their kindness and friendship to the boys couldn't sway them from the massacre, how could some random stranger patting them on the back saying "don't worry!" help?


Both of these kids had better "support" and surroundings than 99.9% of the world.   They were severely flawed, psychotherapy or incarceration might have stopped it, but kindness would have been ignored or taken for granted.



I absolutely believe there was more going on with them than just the bullying and feeling isolated and angry. They needed professional help and no amount of getting a girlfriend or something like that would have fixed.
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QuestionMark
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PostSubject: Re: Reaching Out?   Reaching Out? Icon_minitimeMon Mar 19, 2018 9:03 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
I absolutely believe there was more going on with them than just the bullying and feeling isolated and angry. They needed professional help and no amount of getting a girlfriend or something like that would have fixed. 

I agree but I would like to add that bullying and rejection almost definitely contributed to their poor mental states.

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Screamingophelia
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PostSubject: Re: Reaching Out?   Reaching Out? Icon_minitimeMon Mar 19, 2018 10:15 pm

QuestionMark wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
I absolutely believe there was more going on with them than just the bullying and feeling isolated and angry. They needed professional help and no amount of getting a girlfriend or something like that would have fixed. 

I agree but I would like to add that bullying and rejection almost definitely contributed to their poor mental states.

Absolutely. I sympathize with that a great deal.
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