Did you know?

I have been thinking about that question when it comes to Eric and Dylan specifically but also other school shooters and their family members and people that were close to them.

In hindsight I know Nate had mentioned a few things that would’ve been red flags but since people at school and adults didn’t seem to care he didn’t worry either. The culture around that time was a big gun culture , remember he was so scared that Dylan was going to do drugs when he was hanging out with Mark then when he discovered he was just getting a gun he was like oh OK.

The biggest thing that gets to me and makes me think is when they ask the question to someone like Sue. I remember seeing the infamous interview with her hairdresser right after the tragedy. And I recall vaguely that the hairdresser said I asked her if she knew and Sue said she didn’t. The question always struck me as odd because if she knew what he was going to do she would’ve done anything to stop it. Did she think that Dylan was not as troubled as Eric?

I tend to think that the question is more did you see any red flags, not did you literally know that they were going to go into the school and try to blow it up

I absolutely think Sue thought Dylan was doing perfectly fine when compared to Eric.

She even said that she was a little smug when talking to friends about how Dylan was going to collage and that Eric didn't seem to have any plans. She also said how foolish she felt later on for making that statement after the attack.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

I absolutely think Sue thought Dylan was doing perfectly fine when compared to Eric.

She even said that she was a little smug when talking to friends about how Dylan was going to collage and that Eric didn't seem to have any plans. She also said how foolish she felt later on for making that statement after the attack.

Dylan did truly hide a lot of himself from people. Even his violent essays didn’t really raise a red flag with Sue. In the book she was more concerned that there was sex in it than violence. It kind of shows how our society is so prudish when it comes to sex but meh... violence.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Dylan did truly hide a lot of himself from people. Even his violent  essays didn’t really raise a red flag with Sue. In the book she was more concerned that there was sex in it than  violence. It kind of shows how our society is so prudish when it comes to sex but meh... violence.

Social norms can be rather odd and nonsensical at times.

QuestionMark wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Dylan did truly hide a lot of himself from people. Even his violent  essays didn’t really raise a red flag with Sue. In the book she was more concerned that there was sex in it than  violence. It kind of shows how our society is so prudish when it comes to sex but meh... violence.

Social norms can be rather odd and nonsensical at times.

Very true and Dylan was embarrassed enough over his ferishes, he wouldn’t write about licking a girls foot in class...

I truly believe Dylan had everyone fooled. Eric's own dad had a journal about his behavior but Dylan was still the good child. Exp considered next to Byron.

I myself haven't known any school shooters or shooters in general but I have known a few that have committed suicide and have had people ask me if I knew they were going to do that. Hindsight is a bitch but I never knew at the time

Lizpuff wrote:

I truly believe Dylan had everyone fooled.  Eric's own dad had a journal about his behavior but Dylan was still the good child.  Exp considered next to Byron.  

I myself haven't known any school shooters or shooters in general but I have known a few that have committed suicide and have had people ask me if I knew they were going to do that.  Hindsight is a bitch but I never knew at the time

For the most part Dylan was passive and depressed, those types just don't send out a lot of signals. Even with the signs Eric gave his father/others, no one could have anticipated anything like murder much less mass.

My respect for Sue Klebold is her efforts to educate others that it's really hard to see, but give others every chance to save a loved one's life.

nobody truly understood them or their troubles and the others didnt care. that was the problem. the fbi always consistently drops cases because its just some kid making threats kinda like how Jeffco dropped the aol threats.

eldigato wrote:

nobody truly understood them or their troubles and the others didnt care. that was the problem. the fbi always consistently drops cases because its just some kid making threats kinda like how Jeffco dropped the aol threats.

Agreed. Just like the Nikolas Cruz case. That kid had been in trouble for along time. Yet somehow he was deemed not a threat. I still can't wrap my head around how he was overlooked after SO many red flags over the years.

They spent nearly a year in diversion and clearly Dylan did not take it seriously, even Sue I think mentioned in her book that she was surprised Dylan was released early. Don’t quote me on that because it’s been a while since I read it in hindsight a lot was overlooked. More than likely because they were upper middle class, white and did pretty well at school.

Though I do get a kick out of reading his diversion essays. For someone with such low self-esteem he sure was arrogant.

Screamingophelia wrote:

They spent nearly a year in diversion and clearly Dylan did not take it seriously,  even Sue I think mentioned in her book that she was surprised Dylan  was released early. Don’t quote me on that because it’s been a while since I read it in hindsight a lot was overlooked. More than likely because they were upper middle class, white and did pretty well at school.

Though I do  get a kick out of reading his diversion essays. For someone with such low self-esteem he sure was arrogant.

I have often wondered how much of his arrogance was real and how much was faked to hide his insecurities.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

They spent nearly a year in diversion and clearly Dylan did not take it seriously,  even Sue I think mentioned in her book that she was surprised Dylan  was released early. Don’t quote me on that because it’s been a while since I read it in hindsight a lot was overlooked. More than likely because they were upper middle class, white and did pretty well at school.

Though I do  get a kick out of reading his diversion essays. For someone with such low self-esteem he sure was arrogant.

I have often wondered how much of his arrogance was real and how much was faked to hide his insecurities.

I bet a lot of it is fake. Speaking from my own experiences in high school. I came across as very arrogant because I was picked on so much so I wanted to be like no I am better than you shut up.

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

They spent nearly a year in diversion and clearly Dylan did not take it seriously,  even Sue I think mentioned in her book that she was surprised Dylan  was released early. Don’t quote me on that because it’s been a while since I read it in hindsight a lot was overlooked. More than likely because they were upper middle class, white and did pretty well at school.

Though I do  get a kick out of reading his diversion essays. For someone with such low self-esteem he sure was arrogant.

I have often wondered how much of his arrogance was real and how much was faked to hide his insecurities.

I bet a lot of it is fake. Speaking from my own experiences in high school. I came across as very arrogant because I was picked on so much so I wanted to be like no I am better than you shut up.

I think the arrogance was something he was trying to convince himself of. It was meant to help push away his insecurities.

Do you think Eric was similarly arrogant or was that a facade on his part too?

InsomniaticDreams wrote:

Do you think Eric was similarly arrogant or was that a facade on his part too?

I think it was a lot like it was for Dylan; see my above post.

InsomniaticDreams wrote:

Do you think Eric was similarly arrogant or was that a facade on his part too?

In my honest opinion I do believe Eric put on a facade. He adapted a whole alter ego named "Reb", and had all his friends call him that.  There were a few people that worked with him that didn't even know his real name, as they had ONLY heard him called Reb.

Eric in his own words from his journal described himself as a very insecure, short, scrawny, kid with anger issues. He got picked on and made fun of.

Reb was everything Eric wanted to be. Reb was confident, a total badass who played with guns and bombs. Reb was indeed very arrogant. Eric hid behind that fabricated persona well.

Yet ever so often it would slip and the real Eric would come out. It was almost like it was a split personality type thing.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

InsomniaticDreams wrote:

Do you think Eric was similarly arrogant or was that a facade on his part too?

In my honest opinion I do believe Eric put on a facade. He adapted a whole alter ego named "Reb", and had all his friends call him that.  There were a few people that worked with him that didn't even know his real name, as they had ONLY heard him called Reb.

Eric in his own words from his journal described himself as a very insecure, short, scrawny, kid with anger issues. He got picked on and made fun of.

Reb was everything Eric wanted to be. Reb was confident, a total badass who played with guns and bombs. Reb was indeed very arrogant. Eric hid behind that fabricated persona well.

Yet ever so often it would slip and the real Eric would come out. It was almost like it was a split personality type thing.

I know we can't really compare the dates since Dylan dated his entries at the beginning and Eric did at the end, but I noticed when you read Dylan's journal he starts talking about being "gods" and having "awareness" at the beginning of Eric's journal he states we are not "gods" then starts talking about how he and Dylan were and how they had self reliance. He's only vulnerable in his very last entry. I wonder if something triggered it, maybe someone didn't invite him somewhere.... or he was upset that he didn't get a prom date?

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

InsomniaticDreams wrote:

Do you think Eric was similarly arrogant or was that a facade on his part too?

In my honest opinion I do believe Eric put on a facade. He adapted a whole alter ego named "Reb", and had all his friends call him that.  There were a few people that worked with him that didn't even know his real name, as they had ONLY heard him called Reb.

Eric in his own words from his journal described himself as a very insecure, short, scrawny, kid with anger issues. He got picked on and made fun of.

Reb was everything Eric wanted to be. Reb was confident, a total badass who played with guns and bombs. Reb was indeed very arrogant. Eric hid behind that fabricated persona well.

Yet ever so often it would slip and the real Eric would come out. It was almost like it was a split personality type thing.

I know we can't really compare the dates since Dylan dated his entries at the beginning and Eric did at the end, but I noticed when you read Dylan's journal he starts talking about being "gods" and having "awareness" at the beginning of Eric's journal he states we are not "gods" then starts talking about how he and Dylan were and how they had self reliance. He's only vulnerable in his very last entry. I wonder if something triggered it, maybe someone didn't invite him somewhere.... or he was upset that he didn't get a prom date?

It really is hard to say. Eric was known for being easily "triggered", and was kind of petty in general. As well displayed with the various Hate Lists he made.

But in my honest opinion, I think Eric let more of his real emotions bleed out in his journal then most realize. Yes there is A LOT of anger, hate, etc. But there is also evidence of his loneliness, and other insecurities.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

InsomniaticDreams wrote:

Do you think Eric was similarly arrogant or was that a facade on his part too?

In my honest opinion I do believe Eric put on a facade. He adapted a whole alter ego named "Reb", and had all his friends call him that.  There were a few people that worked with him that didn't even know his real name, as they had ONLY heard him called Reb.

Eric in his own words from his journal described himself as a very insecure, short, scrawny, kid with anger issues. He got picked on and made fun of.

Reb was everything Eric wanted to be. Reb was confident, a total badass who played with guns and bombs. Reb was indeed very arrogant. Eric hid behind that fabricated persona well.

Yet ever so often it would slip and the real Eric would come out. It was almost like it was a split personality type thing.

I know we can't really compare the dates since Dylan dated his entries at the beginning and Eric did at the end, but I noticed when you read Dylan's journal he starts talking about being "gods" and having "awareness" at the beginning of Eric's journal he states we are not "gods" then starts talking about how he and Dylan were and how they had self reliance. He's only vulnerable in his very last entry. I wonder if something triggered it, maybe someone didn't invite him somewhere.... or he was upset that he didn't get a prom date?

It really is hard to say. Eric was known for being easily "triggered", and was kind of petty in general. As well displayed with the various Hate Lists he made.

But in my honest opinion, I think Eric let more of his real emotions bleed out in his journal then most realize. Yes there is A LOT of anger, hate, etc. But there is also evidence of his loneliness, and other insecurities.

I agree. I think Dylan 99% of the time expressed his anger and hurt internally through cutting and stuff and Eric was more of a loose cannon. Which is why I think Dylan was so much more brutal and nasty.

I can’t even imagine knowing Dylan as a shy and sweet kid who gave his classmates cookies then you see this maniac.

eldigato wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

InsomniaticDreams wrote:

Do you think Eric was similarly arrogant or was that a facade on his part too?

In my honest opinion I do believe Eric put on a facade. He adapted a whole alter ego named "Reb", and had all his friends call him that.  There were a few people that worked with him that didn't even know his real name, as they had ONLY heard him called Reb.

Eric in his own words from his journal described himself as a very insecure, short, scrawny, kid with anger issues. He got picked on and made fun of.

Reb was everything Eric wanted to be. Reb was confident, a total badass who played with guns and bombs. Reb was indeed very arrogant. Eric hid behind that fabricated persona well.

Yet ever so often it would slip and the real Eric would come out. It was almost like it was a split personality type thing.

I know we can't really compare the dates since Dylan dated his entries at the beginning and Eric did at the end, but I noticed when you read Dylan's journal he starts talking about being "gods" and having "awareness" at the beginning of Eric's journal he states we are not "gods" then starts talking about how he and Dylan were and how they had self reliance. He's only vulnerable in his very last entry. I wonder if something triggered it, maybe someone didn't invite him somewhere.... or he was upset that he didn't get a prom date?

It really is hard to say. Eric was known for being easily "triggered", and was kind of petty in general. As well displayed with the various Hate Lists he made.

But in my honest opinion, I think Eric let more of his real emotions bleed out in his journal then most realize. Yes there is A LOT of anger, hate, etc. But there is also evidence of his loneliness, and other insecurities.

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Lol I wonder if after a while Dylan just watched Eric have a meltdown and was like “ are you finished?” And just sighed

Also if I made memes I’d make one with Byron and it would say “punching nazis before it was cool” because remember he fought a skin head?

QuestionMark wrote:

I bet a lot of it is fake. Speaking from my own experiences in high school. I came across as very arrogant because I was picked on so much so I wanted to be like no I am better than you shut up.

This, this, this. THIS is teenage boys. Can't speak for girls. But it's probably girls too.