Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh

"I am aware that much of the material we covered in the past did not make the book. … I am also aware that much of what you ask for now will not likely make future prints of the book, and likewise, you are asking now for purposes of running articles in your employer’s paper. The permanence of a book as a future reference piece was the core of our mutual cooperation. Newspaper articles, on the other hand, are “a dime a dozen,” and I’m really not interested in continuing to give The Buffalo News exclusive after exclusive. B/c I cannot control what you give the paper from my letters (intended primarily as material for [the] book), I think we need to pretty much end our relationship. As for material for future updates to the book … you can just as easily summarize from news stories as you can summate from my letters. We’ve had a good run; mutually fair. Let us break it off now, cleanly, and while on good terms. Not one for long, drawn out, emotional fare, I will simply re-state: We’ve had a good run, Lou. Peace." Tim

                                                                                                                                                                             




This was the last letter Tim sent one of the biographers Lou Michel. Who co-wrote the book with Dan Herbeck. Both worked for the Buffalo News at the time.

In 1999 they extensively interviewed McVeigh all together around 75 hours while gathering info for American Terrorist. It's apparent from Tim's letter that a lot of what was talked about never made it into the book. But he also considered it a true enough representation of his life, saying he was both pleased and slightly disappointed in it once.

I would LOVE to have access to ALL that info, audio and footage.

Also just wanted to list the books on Tim McVeigh/Oklahoma City that I currently own. Here they are in no particular order.



American Terrorist  -By Lou Michel & Dan Herbeck

All American Monster  -By Brandon Stickney

Aberration in the Heartland of the Real: The Secret Lives of Timothy McVeigh  -By Wendy Painting

Others Unknown  -By Stephan Jones & Peter Israel

Secrets Worth Dying For: Timothy McVeigh and the Oklahoma City Bombing  -By David Paul Hammer & Jeffery William Paul

Deadly Secrets: Timothy McVeigh and the Oklahoma City Bombing  -By David Paul Hammer

Final Report on the Bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building  -By The Oklahoma Bombing Investigation Committee

One of Ours: Timothy McVeigh and the Oklahoma City Bombing  -By Richard A. Serrano

Just one of the MANY, MANY conspiracies surrounding the bombing. The infamous John Doe number two.  There is actual evidence including several witness statements of people saying they saw a second man with McVeigh. Why the search for this person was dropped has always hit my "BULLSHIT" senses hard.

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Some pics of Tim McVeigh that aren't shown a lot, taken from the Bio documentary on him.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Some pics of Tim McVeigh that aren't shown a lot, taken from the Bio documentary on him.

Thanks, I had never seen this pictures, nice ones.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Just one of the MANY, MANY conspiracies surrounding the bombing. The infamous John Doe number two.  There is actual evidence including several witness statements of people saying they saw a second man with McVeigh. Why the search for this person was dropped has always hit my "BULLSHIT" senses hard.

We all know how reliable witness testimony is.

QuestionMark wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Just one of the MANY, MANY conspiracies surrounding the bombing. The infamous John Doe number two.  There is actual evidence including several witness statements of people saying they saw a second man with McVeigh. Why the search for this person was dropped has always hit my "BULLSHIT" senses hard.

We all know how reliable witness testimony is.

We also all know what lying bastards the government can be.

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A couple more pics of McVeigh that aren't shown much.

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WASHINGTON — In his own time the worst terrorist in America, Timothy J. McVeigh went to his death as a model prisoner, stoic and uncommonly well-behaved, a man who in the end presented a "pleasant demeanor" and a "bright wit," according to his prison records.

Put to death on June 11, he had come to symbolize all that was evil at that time--his execution coming exactly three months before the World Trade Center and the Pentagon were struck by a different brand of terrorist.

But while 19 hijackers died instantly in their four airplanes, McVeigh--an Army soldier from western New York who became the Oklahoma City bomber--spent more than six years behind bars. They were years of maximum security and around-the-clock surveillance, most of it spent on federal death row.

Yet a review Wednesday of his prison and medical records shows that he rarely committed even the slightest of prison infractions or challenged the federal Bureau of Prison's rules and regulations. His bed was always neatly made, his cell tidy, his attitude upbeat.

His beefs were trivial. He was irritated over not getting immediate care for a chipped tooth. He did not like to be bothered while watching a war movie on the television in his cell. He was written up for trying to mail harmless items to his friends.

Indeed, the 2,000 pages of records obtained by The Times show that McVeigh died with the utmost cooperation, outwardly enjoying the worldwide attention his execution received, the federal government's first in almost 40 years.

Although he showed no remorse for killing 168 people in the federal building in Oklahoma City, he was collegial with the government that restricted his every move.

On May 18, just days after his first execution date was set aside, there is this notation in a psychiatric evaluation of prisoner No. 12076-064: "Mr. McVeigh remains stable emotionally. He does not suffer from a major mental health disorder or defect . . . McVeigh maintains a pleasant demeanor, exercises his bright wit, and participates in his legal activities. He spends his time watching TV, reading his correspondence and writing letters."

McVeigh was arrested on April 21, 1995, two days after the explosion at the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building. He came to prison with an attitude, refusing to answer basic questions--where was his last job, did he speak any foreign languages?

For two years, he was kept in special units in federal prisons in Oklahoma and Colorado that housed already-convicted inmates. But because he had not yet been tried, he was granted special perks: cable TV in his cell; expanded commissary privileges, where he specifically asked for and received Chapstick; and a trip to the prison yard or gym for an hour each day.

He was convicted in June 1997 and two months later was sentenced to die. "He has just returned after hearing the verdict of a death sentence yesterday," his records note. "He is taking the verdict and sentence remarkably well and is not depressed."

He was sent to "Supermax" in Florence, Colo., the country's most secure prison. In two years there he committed but one infraction, for refusing to stand up during a head count. "He just looked at us and laughed," a prison official wrote.

Another time McVeigh complained that he did not get enough sunlight; he called it "light deprivation." Otherwise, records note, "things are reportedly going very well." In May 1998, he received a certificate for completing an in-cell video study course called "Earth Revealed."

His prison bank account averaged around $255 and he made good on a $550 court-imposed fine. His property inventory was stocked with cookies, instant cereal, Q-Tips and sweatpants.

His medical needs were minimal, his most common complaint an upset stomach. "I always get this problem in the morning, specially and whenever I'm having a discussion with my lawyer," he told the prison staff.

He was inundated with requests for media interviews and turned down all but a few. Relatives of his victims wrote asking to see him in prison, hoping to hear him say he was sorry. He refused.

A woman wrote that "you are my greatest role model." She wanted to break him out of prison, make love to him, and then together they would kill President Clinton.

"I can't wait to be with you," she wrote. "I will see you soon!"

Some of the publications he requested never made it. The prison returned a "Guns '98 Buyers Guide" and a copy of "The Rational Feminist."

In July 1999 he was sent to Terre Haute, Ind., the prison system's "Death House."

Last October, he tried to mail out 10 Almond Joy bars, 10 Tootsie Rolls and a bag of Now and Later candy. Another time he tried to mail a Jedi action figure.

Thirteen days before he died, he tried to mail a blackberry fruit snack, a homemade necklace, a rosary bead and a "homemade ribbon, military style." The next day he tried again to send out the necklace.

Even as death shadowed him, his prison records were filled with descriptions of a man content with life.

Feb. 10, 1998: "He was cheerful and cooperative. . . . The inmate still displays no remorse for his actions, nor does he spontaneously discuss the matter."

June 6, 1998: "He was not interested in talking. He was in the middle of watching a war movie on television and conveyed the sense that he did not want to be interrupted."

Last December, he dropped his legal appeals. "McVeigh was in good spirits. His head was full of thoughts related to yesterday's hearing. . . . He is bright, articulate, humorous and has an excellent memory. . . .

"Mr. McVeigh was interested in watching 'Private Ryan' and found it ironic that because it was rated R, it couldn't be shown to the inmates. He thought that they might eventually get a sanitized version."

By February he was telling psychologists he hoped his mother would not visit. "He described her as a schizophrenic." She did not come.

"He continues to present [himself] as composed, calm, in control, as though he has thought everything out very carefully."

He was eager for the publication of what he called his "biography," written by two Buffalo News reporters. By March he was gleeful about TV specials the two reporters were doing for the book.

Another day he was in his cell "eating cucumbers" and "he thought he might hear from the school kids [in Terre Haute] thanking him for school being dismissed on the scheduled date of his execution."

By mid-April he had his "property packed." He was ready for the trip to a new cell in preparation for the execution. "He remains in good spirits with a keen sense of humor."

And so he stayed until the morning of June 11, when Warden Harley G. Lappin, having officiated at the execution, announced that Timothy James McVeigh had "cooperated entirely."






Some of the things mentioned in this article I had previously posted about earlier in the thread. Also it was a well know fact that Tim had issues with his stomach for years, and would eat antacids like candy. Actually if I remember correctly he had an open pack of Rolaids in his pocket when he was arrested on the day of the bombing.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

"Mr. McVeigh was interested in watching 'Private Ryan' and found it ironic that because it was rated R, it couldn't be shown to the inmates. He thought that they might eventually get a sanitized version.

Wait is this for real? They won't let convicts watch R-rated movies? Talk about skewed priorities.

QuestionMark wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

"Mr. McVeigh was interested in watching 'Private Ryan' and found it ironic that because it was rated R, it couldn't be shown to the inmates. He thought that they might eventually get a sanitized version.

Wait is this for real? They won't let convicts watch R-rated movies? Talk about skewed priorities.

Yes, its true. I've also never been able to find out if he ever got to watch it. I think nowadays the movies restrictions aren't as strict.

QuestionMark wrote:

Wait is this for real? They won't let convicts watch R-rated movies? Talk about skewed priorities.

Im guessing they think if a movie was too violent or something it could rile up some inmates.

Imagine showing a slasher film to guy like Ted Bundy

W.A.R. wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

Wait is this for real? They won't let convicts watch R-rated movies? Talk about skewed priorities.

Im guessing they think if a movie was too violent or something it could rile up some inmates.

Imagine showing a slasher film to guy like Ted Bundy

Agreed.

W.A.R. wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

Wait is this for real? They won't let convicts watch R-rated movies? Talk about skewed priorities.

Im guessing they think if a movie was too violent or something it could rile up some inmates.

Imagine showing a slasher film to guy like Ted Bundy

It would've bored a guy like Bundy to death considering he basically lived his life like a slasher movie villain.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

I am looking for the full 60 Minutes interview with Ed Bradley from March 12th 2000. But I am only finding little snippets, a few minutes here, a few minutes there, etc. Does a full run, uncut, version still exist? Also does anyone have a link to the full run interview? 

I shit you not, i saw the entire interview on YT at one point, but it was removed for unknown reasons. I had it on my computer at one point because i download that kind of shit, but i deleted when removing stuff off of it without knowing it would be gone online.

I wished the internet archives extended much farther when it comes to their TV news archive because if it did, we would have it.

But let's hope someone will upload it onto YouTube or some video-sharing website soon because Tim's answers entertained me.

I should also mention i saw a clip of Tim while he was in Waco selling those stickers n' shit doing the interview (i know it, i have it in my head), it might've been in that 60 minutes, but i don't remember. If i'm wrong, correct me.

Halcyon666 wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

I am looking for the full 60 Minutes interview with Ed Bradley from March 12th 2000. But I am only finding little snippets, a few minutes here, a few minutes there, etc. Does a full run, uncut, version still exist? Also does anyone have a link to the full run interview? 

I shit you not, i saw the entire interview on YT at one point, but it was removed for unknown reasons. I had it on my computer at one point because i download that kind of shit, but i deleted when removing stuff off of it without knowing it would be gone online.  

I wished the internet archives extended much farther when it comes to their TV news archive because if it did, we would have it.

But let's hope someone will upload it onto YouTube or some video-sharing website soon because Tim's answers entertained me.

I should also mention i saw a clip of Tim while he was in Waco selling those stickers n' shit doing the interview (i know it, i have it in my head), it might've been in that 60 minutes, but i don't remember. If i'm wrong, correct me.

Sadly finding anything related to Tim is near impossible. All you can really find is a snippet from an interview here, another snippet there. etc. I have also come to realize that anything having to do with Tim and the bombing gets frequently purged from youtube A LOT. It is very aggravating.

I have seen the clip of him at the Waco site. I just want his full run interviews, uncut, in their entirety. But apparently that is to much to wish for.

I am also desperately looking for this entire interview. Sadly the first clip has no audio.

This Doc has several clips, stills, etc from the interview that I'm trying to find. Also its just a great doc altogether.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Sadly finding anything related to Tim is near impossible. All you can really find is a snippet from an interview here, another snippet there. etc. I have also come to realize that anything having to do with Tim and the bombing gets frequently purged from youtube A LOT. It is very aggravating.  

I would recommend uploading videos to other video sharing networks if you're able, or downloading them outright.

QuestionMark wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Sadly finding anything related to Tim is near impossible. All you can really find is a snippet from an interview here, another snippet there. etc. I have also come to realize that anything having to do with Tim and the bombing gets frequently purged from youtube A LOT. It is very aggravating.  

I would recommend uploading videos to other video sharing networks if you're able, or downloading them outright.

Also in the worst cases, if a video that you loved was banned but you still have the link (for example in your history search), check if it has been banned only in the USA, and see if you can ask someone from another country to download it and send it to you or see on the Internet how you can watch restricted videos.

Just makes you go HMMM. The rabbit hole is endless on this one.

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Timothy McVeigh, who referred to children killed in the Oklahoma City bombing as "collateral damage, wrote to a national animal rights group saying he understands their cause, even though he doesn't fully share their opinion.
The Oklahoma City bomber also noted in the letter sent to People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals: "I cannot sustain a prolonged intellectual debate on the subject as my time is short, but I suggest hitting Ted Kaczynski up for his opinions on the subject.

McVeigh went on to provide the Colorado prison address for Kaczynski, the Unabomber. The two were held in the same federal maximum-security prison in Florence, Colo., before McVeigh was moved to the federal death row.

McVeigh's letter was in response to a March request by PETA that his final meals at the U.S. Penitentiary in Terre Haute be meatless. The request caught the attention of the media, and apparently McVeigh, who's scheduled to die May 16.

In a letter to Bruce Friedrich, PETA's vegan campaign coordinator, McVeigh wrote: "Truth is, I understand your cause I've seen slaughterhouses myself but I still believe in reasonable taking and eating of game (as an outdoorsman and hunter.)

McVeigh went on to raise questions about where people in "the 'veg' movement draw the line. "Where do those who oppose suffering stand? McVeigh wrote. (Ever see a fish struggling out of water?) What about grubs/worms/etc.?

The man responsible for killing 168 people by bombing the Oklahoma City federal building even noted that plants are alive and respond to stimuli, just as an animal would respond to pain.

McVeigh called on American Indian beliefs of the circle of life to sum up his opinions: "To me, the answer is as the Indians believed: respect for the life you take to sustain yourself, but come to terms with your place in the 'food chain.'

McVeigh made no mention in the letter that he plans to stop eating meat. Friedrich said Monday that he wasn't exactly sure how PETA feels about having McVeigh on their side.

"I don't know what it means for the vegan movement if Timothy McVeigh, in his final days, adopts a vegan diet, he said. "But I think it would be very positive for his soul.









I always thought Tim's last meal choice of two pints mint chocolate chip ice cream was kinda funny, not the most outlandish last meal request by any means. But it kinda just fits Tim somehow.  

The first article was Tim responding to PETA's request that he go VEGAN. Actually his response to them was dead on in my opinion.

The two videos are his lawyers talking about how he was doing during his last meal, etc. The first one has a priest who befrinded Tim and they wrote letters back and forth. Father Ron Ashmore from St. Margaret Mary's Church, said that he believed Tim would make it to Heaven.

Ewww chocolate chip mint.

Totally with Eric on that cookie dough. I could knock out a party sized tub of that.

W.A.R. wrote:

Ewww chocolate chip mint.

Totally with Eric on that cookie dough. I could knock out a party sized tub of that.

I like mint chocolate chip! Cookie dough is good to.  I have a very serious addiction to chocolate in general so almost anything involving chocolate is good.

I’ve always partial to cookies and cream

The most revolting is the damn peppermint schnapps from prom

Screamingophelia wrote:

I’ve always partial to cookies and cream

The most revolting is the damn peppermint schnapps from prom

OH GOD! Schnapps anything brings back horrid horrid memories!

Im not a mint in things other than toothpaste/gum kinda person.

I raged when someone ate all the samoas and left the shitty thin mints.

W.A.R. wrote:

Im not a mint in things other than toothpaste/gum kinda person.

I raged when someone ate all the samoas and left the shitty thin mints.

BAHAHA!  

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

I’ve always partial to cookies and cream

The most revolting is the damn peppermint schnapps from prom

OH GOD! Schnapps anything brings back horrid horrid memories!

Yea, that and aftershock ugh. Jager too... my adult brain when I read Erics stuff and he’s like Outback And Aftershock yay...I think you have no taste Eric... that’s gross then I remember he was 17 ...

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

I’ve always partial to cookies and cream

The most revolting is the damn peppermint schnapps from prom

OH GOD! Schnapps anything brings back horrid horrid memories!

Yea, that and aftershock ugh. Jager too... my adult brain when I read Erics stuff and he’s like Outback And Aftershock yay...I think you have no taste Eric... that’s gross then I remember he was 17 ...

I also have very bad flash backs of a certain weekend and Jungle Juice.

I don't even drink anymore due to Burnett's Sour Apple Vodka.

Im disgusted by the mere sight of Burnett's bottle.

W.A.R. wrote:

I don't even drink anymore due to Burnett's Sour Apple Vodka.

Im disgusted by the mere sight of Burnett's bottle.

The only thing that can literally make me start dry heaving just by sight or smell is Captain Morgan Vanilla!

My lack of taste would be that i love Hpnotiq. I feel too embarrassed to buy it now

With no judgements though i'd drink it straight from the bottle and party like its 2004

W.A.R. wrote:

My lack of taste would be that i love Hpnotiq. I feel too embarrassed to buy it now

With no judgements though i'd drink it straight from the bottle and party like its 2004

LOL!     But it was such a pretty color! Not so much coming back up though!

Also all this talk of drinking, made me recall that Tim McVeigh was a very straight laced guy when it came to things like that.

He didn't really smoke, hardly drank, and only experimented with a few drugs(mainly crystal meth, and marijuana)briefly in all his wanderings over the US.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Also all this talk of drinking, made me recall that Tim McVeigh was a very straight laced guy when it came to things like that.

He didn't really smoke, hardly drank, and only experimented with a few drugs(mainly crystal meth, and marijuana)briefly in all his wanderings over the US.

Interesting! I find a lot of type A and focused personalities don’t like to feel out of control and drugs and alcohol can do that.

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Also all this talk of drinking, made me recall that Tim McVeigh was a very straight laced guy when it came to things like that.

He didn't really smoke, hardly drank, and only experimented with a few drugs(mainly crystal meth, and marijuana)briefly in all his wanderings over the US.

Interesting! I find a lot of type A and focused personalities don’t like to feel out of control and drugs and alcohol can do that.

True! He once talked about using the meth in some article or book I have read(cant remember which at the moment) and basically said it made him remember things that he had forgotten, helped him get hyper focused, etc. Then the next few times he used it, it didn't have the same effect so he just stopped.

Crystal meth is highly addictive, the fact McVeigh tried it a few times and didn't get hooked is amazing on its own.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Also all this talk of drinking, made me recall that Tim McVeigh was a very straight laced guy when it came to things like that.

He didn't really smoke, hardly drank, and only experimented with a few drugs(mainly crystal meth, and marijuana)briefly in all his wanderings over the US.

Interesting! I find a lot of type A and focused personalities don’t like to feel out of control and drugs and alcohol can do that.

True! He once talked about using the meth in some article or book I have read(cant remember which at the moment) and basically said it made him remember things that he had forgotten, helped him get hyper focused, etc. Then the next few times he used it,  it didn't have the same effect so he just stopped.  

Crystal meth is highly addictive, the fact McVeigh tried it a few times and didn't get hooked is amazing on its own.

Maybe it's just me but I feel as though McVeigh deciding not to regularly abuse substances might have been an effort on his part to appear as normal as possible to the American populace once the government caught up to him.

Neah wrote:

Wow, some people are really motivated! And she's not even American.

The made me laugh.

He’s a interesting person.

I get a weird sense he and Eric would have gotten along

Screamingophelia wrote:

Neah wrote:

Wow, some people are really motivated! And she's not even American.

The made me laugh.

He’s a interesting person.

I get a weird sense he and Eric would have gotten along

Eric did have a fondness for McVeigh, to the point that I think Eric got the idea to try and blow up the school from the Oklahoma City Bombing. I'm actually a bit surprised that McVeigh never said anything about the Columbine shootings.

QuestionMark wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Neah wrote:

Wow, some people are really motivated! And she's not even American.

The made me laugh.

He’s a interesting person.

I get a weird sense he and Eric would have gotten along

Eric did have a fondness for McVeigh, to the point that I think Eric got the idea to try and blow up the school from the Oklahoma City Bombing. I'm actually a bit surprised that McVeigh never said anything about the Columbine shootings.

That is an excellent point. I didn’t think about that for the moment. But you’re right the 19th was at the very least a talked about day. If not the original one.

QuestionMark wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

Neah wrote:

Wow, some people are really motivated! And she's not even American.

The made me laugh.

He’s a interesting person.

I get a weird sense he and Eric would have gotten along

Eric did have a fondness for McVeigh, to the point that I think Eric got the idea to try and blow up the school from the Oklahoma City Bombing. I'm actually a bit surprised that McVeigh never said anything about the Columbine shootings.

If he really did the parallel between the shooting and his bombing, he was probably confused that some people could be inspired by what he did to do a non-political, non-ideological attacks. How is it in prison, are you allowed to release a statement, or could he be prevented from saying anything about Columbine to the public?

Do we know if Eric had a fondness for McVeigh only because of the size of the bombing, or was it also because he agreed with him on some ideological points? Because Eric was against all forms of government, so probably against the fed, but I don't even think the state level was ok for him. And anyway, his political view wasn't probably developed enough at the time of the shooting.

QuestionMark wrote:

Maybe it's just me but I feel as though McVeigh deciding not to regularly abuse substances might have been an effort on his part to appear as normal as possible to the American populace once the government caught up to him.

Tim seemed like a very smart, practical thinking type of guy. If something didn't benefit or aid him then he would stop messing with it. He even researched the effects of these drugs before he ever did them.

So I'm more inclined to believe the drugs just didn't keep having the same effect that McVeigh wanted, which was the hyper awareness, what he considered clearer thinking, better focus, etc. So he stopped messing around with it.

Poor guy must have been scared shitless not knowing if the FBI suspected he was involved or not.

Also I agree with his last comment. There is SO much more to the case that has never been uncovered.

Here are two audio recording of the OK bomb blast. The first was from a Water Resources Board meeting that morning.

The second was from somewhere in the building also, although I haven't found where or what division or part of the building it was from. The second audio clip seems to be farther away from the blast then the first.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

Maybe it's just me but I feel as though McVeigh deciding not to regularly abuse substances might have been an effort on his part to appear as normal as possible to the American populace once the government caught up to him.

Tim seemed like a very smart, practical thinking type of guy. If something didn't benefit or aid him then he would stop messing with it. He even researched the effects of these drugs before he ever did them.

So I'm more inclined to believe the drugs just didn't keep having the same effect that McVeigh wanted, which was the hyper awareness, what he considered clearer thinking, better focus, etc. So he stopped messing around with it.

Well the thing is that I'm pretty sure there are some drugs out there that produce the kind of effects McVeigh was looking for, and would do a better job than crystal meth. Though maybe he simply didn't have any access to them.

QuestionMark wrote:

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

QuestionMark wrote:

Maybe it's just me but I feel as though McVeigh deciding not to regularly abuse substances might have been an effort on his part to appear as normal as possible to the American populace once the government caught up to him.

Tim seemed like a very smart, practical thinking type of guy. If something didn't benefit or aid him then he would stop messing with it. He even researched the effects of these drugs before he ever did them.

So I'm more inclined to believe the drugs just didn't keep having the same effect that McVeigh wanted, which was the hyper awareness, what he considered clearer thinking, better focus, etc. So he stopped messing around with it.

Well the thing is that I'm pretty sure there are some drugs out there that produce the kind of effects McVeigh was looking for, and would do a better job than crystal meth. Though maybe he simply didn't have any access to them.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  One would assume that the circles in which McVeigh traveled, and the people he was in frequent contact with, etc. probably had access to just about any drug coming or going at the time. Apparently McVeigh just wasn't into drugs.

He actually talked about it in some article or book(I have read way to much on this case and can't remember which one) saying that it was one of the more outlandish assumptions about him. That people thought he was some sort of drug fiend, when he had only tried drugs a few times.

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"Hey, Gorgeous.
Poof goes your head, I know. I can take a hint, but this is my address anyway. If you ever need anything, let me know. (1) someone killed, blown up, etc. (2) a shoulder. (3) refuge. (4) fertilization from good stock when that clock starts ticking. I’ll always listen. Don’t hesitate to drop me a line. People may change superficially but not underneath. Remember that. Take care and merry Christmas.

Tim.

Tim McVeigh, 1711 Stockton Hill Road, No. 206, Kingman, Arizona, 86401.

P.S. It took class character for your boss to leave his office so we could talk. Very tactful. Good man."



Andrea Peters - Direct
Q.  That's a very short letter, Ms. Peters.  If you would, just
read that into evidence.
A.  Starting from the beginning?
Q.  Yes.
A.  Hey, Gorgeous.  Poof goes your head, I know.  I can take a
hint, but this is my address anyway.  If you ever need
anything, let me know.  (1) someone killed, blown up, etc.  (2)
a shoulder.  (3) refuge.  (4) fertilization from good stock
when that clock starts ticking.  I'll always listen.  Don't
hesitate to drop me a line.  People may change superficially
but not underneath.  Remember that.  Take care and merry
Christmas.  Tim.  Tim McVeigh, 1711 Stockton Hill Road, No.
206, Kingman, Arizona, 86401.  P.S. It took class character for
your boss to leave his office so we could talk.  Very tactful.
Good man."


After weeks of digging, I finally found it! 

This is the letter Tim wrote to a co-worker he was interested in named Andrea Peters in Dec. of 1994. He had worked with her when he was a security guard at Burns Security.  Andrea was a receptionist.

The link is to her testimony during McVeigh's trial, where she had to read the letter to the court. I'm still scrambling to find an actual copy of the letter, if one exists somewhere out there. Will update this if I ever come across it.

I will say one thing, Timmy was smooth AF!  But the "fertilization from good stock when that clock starts ticking" still has me fucking rolling.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"Hey, Gorgeous.
Poof goes your head, I know. I can take a hint, but this is my address anyway. If you ever need anything, let me know. (1) someone killed, blown up, etc. (2) a shoulder. (3) refuge. (4) fertilization from good stock when that clock starts ticking. I’ll always listen. Don’t hesitate to drop me a line. People may change superficially but not underneath. Remember that. Take care and merry Christmas.

Tim.

Tim McVeigh, 1711 Stockton Hill Road, No. 206, Kingman, Arizona, 86401.

P.S. It took class character for your boss to leave his office so we could talk. Very tactful. Good man."



Andrea Peters - Direct
Q.  That's a very short letter, Ms. Peters.  If you would, just
read that into evidence.
A.  Starting from the beginning?
Q.  Yes.
A.  Hey, Gorgeous.  Poof goes your head, I know.  I can take a
hint, but this is my address anyway.  If you ever need
anything, let me know.  (1) someone killed, blown up, etc.  (2)
a shoulder.  (3) refuge.  (4) fertilization from good stock
when that clock starts ticking.  I'll always listen.  Don't
hesitate to drop me a line.  People may change superficially
but not underneath.  Remember that.  Take care and merry
Christmas.  Tim.  Tim McVeigh, 1711 Stockton Hill Road, No.
206, Kingman, Arizona, 86401.  P.S. It took class character for
your boss to leave his office so we could talk.  Very tactful.
Good man."


After weeks of digging, I finally found it! 

This is the letter Tim wrote to a co-worker he was interested in named Andrea Peters in Dec. of 1994. He had worked with her when he was a security guard at Burns Security.  Andrea was a receptionist.

The link is to her testimony during McVeigh's trial, where she had to read the letter to the court. I'm still scrambling to find an actual copy of the letter, if one exists somewhere out there. Will update this if I ever come across it.

I will say one thing, Timmy was smooth AF!  But the "fertilization from good stock when that clock starts ticking" still has me fucking rolling.

LOL. When I first read it I thought "why does he mention bomb related things twice in his letter?" then I realized what he meant... yea I kind of love that. haha.


Tim got chicks, lots of chicks..... but he did for realsies.

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

He actually talked about it in some article or book(I have read way to much on this case and can't remember which one) saying that it was one of the more outlandish assumptions about him. That people thought he was some sort of drug fiend, when he had only tried drugs a few times.

I had no idea most people assumed that. Before you told me I always assumed Tim was straight edge.