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 Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh

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Neah
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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   Oklahoma city  and Tim McVeigh - Page 12 Icon_minitimeMon Oct 29, 2018 12:51 pm

ShadowedGoddess wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  Also does 13 books on this subject seem obsessive to you? scratch  Asking for a friend! Haha

Nooo...  Rolling Eyes let's just say your friend want to cross-reference information to make sure they are reliable. ;)

Which one is your favorite for now?

Hands down its Aberration in the Heartland of the Real: The Secret Lives of Timothy McVeigh by Wendy Painting. To my knowledge Wendy is the only person to date that has gone through every piece of evidence that is allowed to the public, also all the case archives.

It truly shows in her mammoth of a book! But its the most in depth one I have found so far on McVeigh and the case.

Maybe I'll give it a try. I also want to read A Mother's Reckoning but I prefer to start reading something about McVeigh (I feel it's like choosing between a great blockbuster with a charismatic and badass hero with a tortured mind, explosions and stuff whereas on the other hand you've got a drama film about two lonely teenagers in a desperate need to be heard and understood).


Amazon has the Kindle and paperback versions. There are few copies on Ebay as well.Very Happy


See how you perverted my mind! It all starts with a single book and soon I will create a club in my "McVeigh library" and discuss conspiracy theories...
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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   Oklahoma city  and Tim McVeigh - Page 12 Icon_minitimeMon Oct 29, 2018 12:54 pm

@Neah wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:
@Neah wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:
@Neah wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:
@Neah  Also does 13 books on this subject seem obsessive to you? scratch  Asking for a friend! Haha

Nooo...  Rolling Eyes let's just say your friend want to cross-reference information to make sure they are reliable. ;)

Which one is your favorite for now?

Hands down its Aberration in the Heartland of the Real: The Secret Lives of Timothy McVeigh by Wendy Painting. To my knowledge Wendy is the only person to date that has gone through every piece of evidence that is allowed to the public, also all the case archives.

It truly shows in her mammoth of a book! But its the most in depth one I have found so far on McVeigh and the case.

Maybe I'll give it a try. I also want to read A Mother's Reckoning but I prefer to start reading something about McVeigh (I feel it's like choosing between a great blockbuster with a charismatic and badass hero with a tortured mind, explosions and stuff whereas on the other hand you've got a drama film about two lonely teenagers in a desperate need to be heard and understood).


Amazon has the Kindle and paperback versions. There are a few copies on Ebay as well.Very Happy


See how you perverted my mind! It all starts with a single book and soon I will create a club in my "McVeigh library" and discuss conspiracy theories...


BAHAHAHAHA! LOL
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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   Oklahoma city  and Tim McVeigh - Page 12 Icon_minitimeTue Nov 06, 2018 9:32 am

Oklahoma city  and Tim McVeigh - Page 12 Dscf7110




Small update. Scrounged around until I found a slightly better quality pic of Tim holding the baby. Also determined that the baby was Jason Torres Nichols. Terry Nichols second wife Marife Torres's son. Terry met and married Marife through a Mail Order Bride service but she became pregnant with Jason sometime after she married Terry and before being able to make the move from the Philippines to the US some many months later. Terry accepted Jason as his own.

Jason Torres Nichols died by suffocation when he was around two years old. He was found unresponsive with a bag over his head. Shortly after Jason died, Marife told her family that she suspected Terry killed Jason out of anger that he wasn't his real son, and to get back at her because she had cheated on him before coming to American. Then she blamed Tim McVeigh of killing Jason to make Terry go along with the bombing. There are several tales she told different people about who she thought had possibly killed Jason and why.

The story surrounding Jason's death is kinda vague, the details of who found him, who called 911 etc. change depending on what sources you are working with. Some say Marife herself found Jason, other variations say that either Tim or Terry found him first. But all say that Tim started CPR and that Terry joined in to try and resuscitate Jason until the paramedics arrived. Jason's death was investigated, no bruises, injuries, or signs of trauma were found on his body, so his death was ruled accidental.

Marife Nichols also had a short lived affair with Tim while he and Terry were supposedly planning the attack.  That info later came out during Terry's trial.


Still working on the Suspicious Deaths Series as well, these things sometimes take forever to track down reliable info on. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   Oklahoma city  and Tim McVeigh - Page 12 Icon_minitimeTue Nov 06, 2018 4:29 pm

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Shortly after Jason died, Marife told her family that she suspected Terry killed Jason out of anger that he wasn't his real son, and to get back at her because she had cheated on him before coming to American. Then she blamed Tim McVeigh of killing Jason to make Terry go along with the bombing. There are several tales she told different people about who she thought had possibly killed Jason and why.

What is your own theory on this?

I think it was an accident. I may be very naive but I find it hard to believe that parents can kill their baby. I know it happened before but in this case I don't believe they could have done that. Neither can I imagine Timothy killing the baby. Maybe his charisma and political opinions influenced me but, even if in the end he actually ended up killing babies I don't think McVeigh was mean to the point that he could murder a baby directly, even if he had reasons to do so. Marife obviously knew them better than I do but she was probably a bit paranoid. Or she tried to blame others for something she could not prevent and felt guilty for, despite her being the mother.
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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   Oklahoma city  and Tim McVeigh - Page 12 Icon_minitimeTue Nov 06, 2018 4:55 pm

@Neah wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:

Shortly after Jason died, Marife told her family that she suspected Terry killed Jason out of anger that he wasn't his real son, and to get back at her because she had cheated on him before coming to American. Then she blamed Tim McVeigh of killing Jason to make Terry go along with the bombing. There are several tales she told different people about who she thought had possibly killed Jason and why.

What is your own theory on this?

I think it was an accident. I may be very naive but I find it hard to believe that parents can kill their baby. I know it happened before but in this case I don't believe they could have done that. Neither can I imagine Timothy killing the baby. Maybe his charisma and political opinions influenced me but, even if in the end he actually ended up killing babies I don't think McVeigh was mean to the point that he could murder a baby directly, even if he had reasons to do so. Marife obviously knew them better than I do but she was probably a bit paranoid. Or she tried to blame others for something she could not prevent and felt guilty for, despite her being the mother.


I actually think it was just an accident. Everyone who was close to the situation that knew Tim said that Tim often took care of Jason, would change his diapers, give him baths, played with him, ate with him etc. They said Jason loved Tim and the feeling was mutual.

It's true that Tim had a hand in killing the 19 kids that were in the Daycare center that day. But it wasn't up close and personal. He didn't see it happening with his own eyes. I also seriously doubt that he could have suffocated a two year old baby to death that he was used to being around and caring for, one that trusted him completely.  That I just cant believe.

But Marife told many different stories and changed them several times over. Also you have to remember that she did have an affair with Tim later on after Jason's death. Ask yourself this- Would a mother really have sex with a man she thought had killed her child? I would think not.  Evil or Very Mad

Also Terry had accepted Jason as his own, even though Marife had cheated on him. Why would he wait two years then decide to all of a sudden kill Jason for revenge? That just makes no sense to me either. There were no signs of foul play, no indication that Jason had been abused etc. So that all points to it just being a very sad and tragic accident. Crying or Very sad
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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   Oklahoma city  and Tim McVeigh - Page 12 Icon_minitimeTue Nov 06, 2018 5:01 pm

ShadowedGoddess wrote:

But Marife told many different stories and changed them several times over. Also you have to remember that she did have an affair with Tim later on after Jason's death. Ask yourself this- Would a mother really have sex with a man she thought had killed her child? I would think not.  Evil or Very Mad

Also Terry had accepted Jason as his own, even though Marife had cheated on him.

I don't know how she felt after the bombing and trial but all these elements give a pretty bad image of her. She cheated on Terry who still recognized the baby as his own (which is already something incredible), and despite this she had an affair with her husband's friend. I don't know how people at the trial reacted to that but it could have lowered the value of her testimonies.
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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   Oklahoma city  and Tim McVeigh - Page 12 Icon_minitimeTue Nov 06, 2018 5:04 pm

Its true that she did catch a lot of flack, but only on a personal level. It didn't effect the way her testimony was received by the jury.
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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   Oklahoma city  and Tim McVeigh - Page 12 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 18, 2018 4:06 pm

Imagine if Tim McVeigh went on a Shooting spree instead of the bombing (or after the bomb detonated), how do you think he would have done?
Remember he was a former soldier in the Gulf war.
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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   Oklahoma city  and Tim McVeigh - Page 12 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 18, 2018 4:22 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Imagine if Tim McVeigh went on a Shooting spree instead of the bombing (or after the bomb detonated), how do you think he would have done?
Remember he was a former soldier in the Gulf war.

Why would he go on a shooting spree?

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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   Oklahoma city  and Tim McVeigh - Page 12 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 18, 2018 4:34 pm

I don't know if this has already been posted before but here's a picture of all of McVeigh's victims:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   Oklahoma city  and Tim McVeigh - Page 12 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 18, 2018 4:39 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Imagine if Tim McVeigh went on a Shooting spree instead of the bombing (or after the bomb detonated), how do you think he would have done?
Remember he was a former soldier in the Gulf war.

Why would he go on a shooting spree?


If he decided not to build the bomb, or if he wanted to get extra kills after detonating his bomb.
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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   Oklahoma city  and Tim McVeigh - Page 12 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 18, 2018 6:32 pm

Well Tim was a Top Gunner when he was in the ARMY. Like a really good marksman, but this was in a tank. He did will all kinds of awards for this though.
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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   Oklahoma city  and Tim McVeigh - Page 12 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 18, 2018 6:48 pm

@Tommy QTR wrote:
I don't know if this has already been posted before but here's a picture of all of McVeigh's victims:

Oklahoma city  and Tim McVeigh - Page 12 Mcveighpage



Actually it hasn't. Thanks for posting. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   Oklahoma city  and Tim McVeigh - Page 12 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 18, 2018 8:06 pm

ShadowedGoddess wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I don't know if this has already been posted before but here's a picture of all of McVeigh's victims:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]



Actually it hasn't. Thanks for posting. Smile
Yeah I wanted to remind everyone that no matter how much you like/sympathise with McVeigh, he still murdered innocent people.

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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   Oklahoma city  and Tim McVeigh - Page 12 Icon_minitimeMon Nov 19, 2018 2:35 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
I don't know if this has already been posted before but here's a picture of all of McVeigh's victims:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]



Actually it hasn't. Thanks for posting. Smile
Yeah I wanted to remind everyone that no matter how much you like/sympathise with McVeigh, he still murdered innocent people.

Thanks, I had never seen this one. Sure, I sympathize with McVeigh but you're right about that, it's important to remember the victims too, and I may sometimes forget what he did. It is the same with mass shooters, sometimes I feel I need to see all the victims again, to keep the balance between how shooters were before the shooting, and all the innocent lives they destroyed.
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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   Oklahoma city  and Tim McVeigh - Page 12 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 11, 2018 10:57 am

I swear I haven't given up on this thread y'all! Just been super busy. I am still actively researching when I can find a minute or two. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   Oklahoma city  and Tim McVeigh - Page 12 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 11, 2018 11:07 am

Oklahoma city  and Tim McVeigh - Page 12 Pretty10



Also just found this on Tumblr! Sweet Jesus! WHY! Just why do fangirls feel the need to do these types of things? Haha
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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   Oklahoma city  and Tim McVeigh - Page 12 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 11, 2018 11:21 am

No!!

I always thought it was weird when they did it to actors and now they’re doing it to people who are decidedly not actors..



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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   Oklahoma city  and Tim McVeigh - Page 12 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 11, 2018 11:27 am

@Screamingophelia wrote:
No!!

I always thought it was weird when they did it to actors and now they’re doing it to people who are decidedly not actors..




I about lost my breakfast! silent LOL!
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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   Oklahoma city  and Tim McVeigh - Page 12 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 11, 2018 1:12 pm

ShadowedGoddess wrote:
I am still actively researching when I can find a minute or two. Smile

Spoiler:
 

I must admit that I'm a little bit disappointed with you "active" researching! Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   Oklahoma city  and Tim McVeigh - Page 12 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 11, 2018 1:13 pm

@Neah wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:
I am still actively researching when I can find a minute or two. Smile

Spoiler:
 

I must admit that I'm a little bit disappointed with you "active" researching! Laughing



I know I know. I died when I saw that. LOL
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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   Oklahoma city  and Tim McVeigh - Page 12 Icon_minitimeSun Dec 23, 2018 9:45 am

http://www.famousinterview.ca/interviews/dr._lorraine_day.htm

On June 11, 2001 the world was told that the Oklahoma city bomber Timothy McVeigh was executed by lethal injection at the Federal correctional complex, Terre Haute Indiana.
Dr. Lorraine Day says it never happened, that Timothy McVeigh is very much alive. We’ll let her explain.

Q - You write: the IV that was supposed to deliver the lethal injection dose to McVeigh was placed in his leg. I knew right then that they were not going to execute. This was a fake execution to pacify the families of the victims involved in the bombing disaster. IVs are placed in the arm, hand, and occasionally in the foot but not for extensive or difficult procedures and certainly not in the foot or leg for an execution. After you wrote that, did any other doctor contact you and say you’re right about that or did any doctor say you’re wrong about that.
A - I don’t really have a place on that website to contact me. I just post some stuff and people can read it or not. My other website drday.com I do have a place where people can contact me. This is really not a debatable thing because every surgeon knows that there is no place in the leg where there is a vessel large enough to insert an IV where the vessel is close enough to the surface. There is no place in the leg. The only place there would be is in the popliteal fossa which is in the back of the knee, in the bend of the knee in the back, there is a vessel that’s about the diameter of your index finger, but it is at least an inch deep so you could not get a needle in it. If you did, if the needle came out, you could have a very big hemorrhage into the back of your knee which would not be a good thing. This is not a debatable thing. You can look it up in any anatomy textbook. Every surgeon knows that. Every anesthesiologist would never take a person to the operating room with an IV and the leg, ever. That’s like saying to you really tie your shoes with a knot and a bow? That’s about how obvious this answer is.

Q - This woman, Susan Carlson who was a reporter for WLS- AM Radio in Chicago stated that McVeigh appeared to be still breathing or what appeared to be shallow breathing even after being pronounced dead and his eyes remained open. Maybe Susan Carlton just got it wrong.
A - Well, I mean that’s a possibility, but, I’m not basing it all on that. There are many other things: number one, they said they were going to keep his medical records secret for 25 years. Well, why? Why would they do that? That’s unnecessary. If he’s truly the murder that they say he is, what are they hiding? Okay? If they weren’t going to actually execute him, maybe that’s what they were hiding, alright? Then they said they weren’t going to donate any of his organs. Well, the state can get $200,000, $300,000, $400,000 for a young healthy man. Why wouldn’t they do that? Then, Timothy McVeigh actually asked for his execution date to be moved up. That’s virtually unheard of. Most people who are really incarcerated, who are on death row will want as much time as possible to appeal, to appeal, to appeal because they want to live.

Q - Could McVeigh’s family have requested his medical records not be released?
A - No. He is a ward of the state while he is in prison.

Q - You ask why McVeigh asked for his execution to be moved up. I recall seeing one of his attorneys on TV saying he doesn’t have much of a life in prison. He was in a super Max prison. He had no contact with other people. They take his food and shove it through a slot.
A - Everybody on death row is in that situation. I mean, you can say that, just like you can say Brad Pitt really wants to be a Pauper. Well, maybe he does, but, if he wanted to then he could be one. He doesn’t have to be rich. (Laughs). We have a saying in medicine that is, if you hear hooves coming down the street, it’s probably a horse and not a zebra. So, you go with the preponderance of evidence. The horses are much more common coming down the street then are a zebra. There may be other people that have asked for their execution dates to be moved up. I personally have never heard of one, and I’ve taken care of a lot of prisoners. When I was a trauma surgeon at San Francisco General for 25 years, I took care of the guys from San Quentin, the prisoners from the local County jail. We had a locked ward in our hospital for criminals when they were brought in that we took care of and we had another locked ward for the criminally insane. I take care of these people. I’ve never heard of anybody asking for their execution date to be moved up.

Q - You say that Timothy McVeigh worked for the C.I.A. Where did you get that information from?
A - I can’t remember whether I said C.I.A or B.A.T.F, there are pictures of him in the B.A.T.F uniform. I have seen those pictures and they may even be on my website. There was also a picture of him walking into a McDonald’s either in the B.A.T.F uniform or walking into a McDonald’s about the time that supposedly this bombing was taking place. I believe that he did take the truck to the Oklahoma bombing place, but of course there was no dived under the truck. So, if there was no dived under the truck; when dynamite goes off, when the fertilizer bomb goes off it goes off circumferentially. It doesn’t go off in one direction. So when that truck exploded, if it had enough explosive power in it to knock down those pillars in the Oklahoma building their, there would’ve been a dived under the truck but there was none. Everything about this whole Oklahoma bombing defies the story that was given by the government. Yes, people were killed, were killed. I’ve got this on my website; people who worked in the building said the F.B.I was putting up the yellow tape behind the building before the explosion.

Q - I’ve never heard that before. I know it’s been reported there was a bomb squad scene in front of the Murrah Federal Building early in the morning.
A - Actually, there were more bombs in that building as well because I have video on my website where the doctors at the hospital in the trauma unit were telling the press; they were asking how many more people have they brought in. He said, they’re not bringing in any more right now because they are searching for more bombs and you can see the bomb squad truck out there where they’re going to put the bombs when they take them out. So there was at least one more bomb and maybe two more bombs. This is clearly not the fertilizer bomb incident that it’s made out to be.

Q - When that Ryder truck parked in front of the Murrah Federal Building, two people got out. McVeigh was on passenger side.
A - We do know there was another person involved in this that’s never been completely identified. So clearly you’ve got more than one person, you’ve got a problem. Yet, they blame it all on McVeigh. And of course I have on my website the picture of the Ryder truck in a government compound not too far from Oklahoma City where they were trying to cover it up with a tarp, but, you can see it there. That apparently was the truck that was used although I can’t verify that the license plate was the same because you can’t see it in the picture. There are problems about the truck. There are problems about the size of the bomb and of course a general in the army and I’ve got this information on my website as well, states clearly that the fertilizer bomb could not do that damage to the building. He is an expert in bombs. Everything about this whole disaster does not add up when you look at what the government says happened.

Q - When McVeigh came home from Iraq he was sleeping on his father’s couch and working as a security guard later for Brinks I believe. If he was working for the C.I.A couldn’t they have found him a better position than that? Not that there’s anything wrong with being a security guard, but McVeigh was struggling.
A - I don’t know what time point that was, whether that was before he was working for the government or not. I don’t know about that. I haven’t investigated that, because that isn’t really germane to the whole thing. The whole thing is this does not add up. When you put all the pieces together it is contrary, totally contrary to what the government says happened.

Q - You believe McVeigh was working with or for the C.I.A. Another explanation could be that he was part of a cell group that was anti-American Government. He was seen in the company of men in both Junction City, Kansas and Oklahoma City, that have never been identified to this day.
A - Well, that’s the kind of thing the government likes to do. They like to set people up to make them look different from what they are, just like they did with Lee Harvey Oswald. Anybody who’s investigated that at all knows that Lee Harvey Oswald had nothing to do with the JFK assassination and that they either sent him or a double of him to Russia to make it look like he was a communist to set him up for the hit. They could’ve easily have done that with Tim McVeigh as well.

Q - You really believe that about Oswald?
A - You think Oswald shot JFK?

Q - Absolutely.
A - (Laughs). Oh my word, my word. (Laughs). I guess you believe all the false flags the government is doing are all true?

Q - I believe in the innocence of James Earl Ray.
A - I agree with that statement. You believe that Sirhan Sirhan killed Robert Kennedy?

Q - I do.
A – Oh, my. Well, there are lots of witnesses that say that didn’t happen.

Q - I interviewed Warren Rogers, author of when I think of Bobby, who was in the ambassador hotel on June 4, 1968 and he told me Sirhan did fire the gun.
A - There were bullet holes all over that room. That’s been documented. There are bullet holes all over that room. Sirhan Sirhan couldn’t get off that many shots.

Q - You’re talking about the doors?
A - They were in the walls too. It wasn’t just the doors.

Q - I’m certain that the LAPD offered up an explanation for that. But, back to Oswald for a minute. He was a political Zealot and on top of that he was diagnosed as being paranoid schizophrenic in the 1950s I don’t think there was any treatment for that, or very little treatment for that in the United States.
A - Well, there’s really no treatment ever going on for paranoid schizophrenia or any other disease because all we doctors are taught to do is to give them drugs which have the same side effects as the disease. So, there’s really no treatment that we doctors are taught to give anybody with the mental or physical illness because drugs don’t cure disease. Drugs never cure disease. Drugs only cover up the symptoms and make the person feel better while the disease continues on. But, let me tell you something about paranoid schizophrenia; paranoid schizophrenia cannot be diagnosed by any blood test or anything else. It’s in the mind of the psychiatrists. I know a lot of people who have been given the diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia who are not paranoid schizophrenia and that diagnosis never leaves them for the rest of their life. So, I would take that with a grain of salt. We probably should move on from Lee Harvey Oswald because will never come to the meeting of the minds on that one. (Laughs). I don’t believe for a minute be Harvey Oswald had anything to do with it. That’s why they had to kill him.

Q – Who’s they? Jack Ruby shot Oswald.
A - Jack Ruby was part of the Mafia. His name was Jack Rubenstein by the way. He was part of the Mafia, a hanger on the Mafia. Meyer Lansky was head of the Mafia, also Jewish. He was the one in large part behind this because Bobby Kennedy and JFK were both sending the Mafia out of this country or incarcerating them. They didn’t like that. So, there’s all sorts of people who wanted JFK did. I assume you apparently have not read final judgment by Michael Collins Piper.

Q - I’ve read a lot of books on the JFK assassination, seen a lot of documentaries, interviewed people who were in Dealey Plaza on November 22, 1963.
A - That’s the only one that tells the real truth.

Q - The Mafia had nothing to do with the assassination of President. Kennedy.
A - The Mafia was part of it. The hits came directly from the C.I.A., James Hangleton, Meyer Lansky and the New World order group that runs this country.

Q - Back to McVeigh, the weekend before he was executed, he called his sister and she reported how calm he sounded. Does that seems strange to you in any way?
A - I don’t have any knowledge of that. I don’t know that he called home. I don’t know on what basis his sisters said he was supposedly calm. I can’t comment on that because I don’t know anything about that. I can’t put in words by reading his sister’s mind. All I can do is deal with facts. The facts are; they said they put his IV in his leg. That’s impossible if you’re going to try and execute somebody. There’s no vain close enough to the surface and large enough for a large dose of the injectable material to be able to get to his heart fast enough to kill him. Alright? So, that’s number one. Number two, we do know that he asked for his execution date to be moved up. That is highly unusual, if not the only person who’s ever done that. Number three, we do know that this woman said even after he was dead he was still breathing shallowly. You can dispute what she said or you can call her an airhead, either one. I’m just quoting what she said. Alright? And what I know they said they were going to keep his records secret for 25 years. There seems to be no reasonable explanation for that at all. And, we know they said they were not going to donate any of his organs which in a young healthy man they could get close to half $1 million for. So these things all suggest that he was not executed. If you choose to believe he was executed, you have the right to believe that. Alright? I’m not trying to tell you what to believe or anybody else that may be reading this. I’m just saying as a physician and a long time trauma surgeon I know that these things are incorrect if you’re going to try to kill somebody. I’m just dealing with facts. I’m not trying to figure out what his sister might have thought when and if he called her a week before. I’m just dealing with the facts that are generally accepted by the public.

Q - Nobody really benefited from the Oklahoma City bombing.
A - Oh yes they did! All you have to do is look at what happened afterwards.

Q - What happened?
A - We have the onerous antiterrorism bill right away after that. The government benefited enormously by putting us all in an open-air prison, by having T.S.A, Homeland Security. You can’t get on an airplane without them molesting you. They’re going to confiscate the guns. All of these things they benefit from. That’s the way you look at it-who benefits.

Q – It costs the government more money to implement those programs.
A – They don’t care. It’s you and I that give them the money.

Q - They had to rebuild the Murrah federal building, hire new people to staff all those programs.
A - Oh, yes and guess what? When they rebuild it contractors make money. They go in and devastate Iraq and those companies go in and make a lot of money rebuilding it. That’s the way you do it. You make money destroying and then you make money rebuilding it.

Q - These antigovernment cell groups hate whoever is in power. It doesn’t matter if it’s Bill Clinton or George W. Bush.
A - It’s The New World order that is running Barack Obama, George Bush, Bill Clinton. They are just the puppet. It’s the international Wall Street bankers that are running our country.





Y'all know how I LOVE a good conspiracy right?  Haha  Can't help but wonder if Little Timmy did somehow manage to get out of dying and is somewhere in a protection program like Michael Fortier ended up after he was released?
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PostSubject: Re: Oklahoma city and Tim McVeigh   Oklahoma city  and Tim McVeigh - Page 12 Icon_minitimeThu Jan 03, 2019 8:01 am




Going back over all the docs again. This is one of the better ones.
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