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Screamingophelia
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PostSubject: Best Friends/Friends/Acquaintances   Best Friends/Friends/Acquaintances Icon_minitimeSun Jul 22, 2018 11:23 pm

I thought a little bit about Dylan and Eric and their circles. Sue called Dylan "popular" and evidently many people seemed to like him. Eric alienated a lot of people and with the exception of Kristi, Susan, Alyssa, Nate and Chris people were pretty turned off by him, but 5 friends besides Dylan seems like a nice amount for a kid that feels so alone, not saying that you can't feel alienated and alone with friends... but then I started pondering a little. Devon called Dylan her best friend, Dylan called Zach his best friend, Sue called Nate Dylan's best friend, Nate seemed to consider Eric and Dylan his closest friends (he made special mention to them in the yearbook. Something like "thank you for your everlasting friendship" ) and some people in the 11k said they were "close" to Dylan Kristen even said she THOUGHT she was dating Dylan... so not sure why she thought that considering he took Robyn to the prom but with no more information we there is only speculation.


So I bring all that up because I then started thinking about how there are 365 days in a year. There are breaks from school (holiday break, summer) and with Dylan he seemed to slip away from Zach and we know Zach was a bit two faced when it came to Dylan (though yes Dylan was the ultimate two faced friend because he fooled everyone so much) so there were parties they went to and there were some sleepovers etc.. but really how often did these things happen? I mean could Devon and Dylan have hung out outside of school twice a month and be considered "best friends"? Dylan may have spoken to Zach towards the end on the phone a couple nights a week but how deep were their conversations really? Were they the same as when they were freshman and Dylan would cry? Or was it "hey, French class sucks. What are you getting Devon for her birthday?"

I was just thinking in the grand scheme of things, Dylan and Eric were certainly the closest. So I am imagining as time went on even though they had social circles, I think the majority of the time Eric spent with someone was with Dylan and vice versa. I am thinking truly how close were Eric and Dylan to their other friends?

Robyn and Dylan hung out a few times a week and she convinced him to go to prom but how deep was their friendship? Also they became friends around the time he started on his spiral (I think end of sophomore year? Dylan was depressed by then) so in a way how well did she know him?

I'm exhausted so I hope I'm making sense Smile

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thelmar

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PostSubject: Re: Best Friends/Friends/Acquaintances   Best Friends/Friends/Acquaintances Icon_minitimeMon Jul 23, 2018 1:35 am

I think you're right that, at least in their last year, Dylan and Eric were the closest.

Devon may have called Dylan her best friend but there was one point at which he wrote that he wouldn't mind killing her because he felt she stole Zach from him. So, how close could they really have been in Dylan's mind?
He and Robyn were good friends but nothing I've read or heard her say would indicate they were intensely close.

I think Dylan kept up appearances with Zach and Nate, doing all the things they usually did, but essentially he held back this monumental secret from them for a year. There is no way that this didn't put distance in their relationships. Maybe they didn't realize it, but it had to have affected Dylan.

With regard to Eric, at the time of their arrest in 1998 he indicated that Dylan was his only close friend. I'd think that only strengthened during the year they spent planning the attack.
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PostSubject: Re: Best Friends/Friends/Acquaintances   Best Friends/Friends/Acquaintances Icon_minitimeMon Jul 23, 2018 8:36 am

I think if you think prior to 98, they would have all been closer.

However 98 on, I think most friends were just "school friends". IE the kids you hang out with at school or lunch. From what it seemed like Dylan and Eric were conjoined at the hip. I think toward the ends of their lives they hung out with others only so much as they needed to.

However, I do think that there were times that Dylan did try to dig himself out.....at least going off of his journal. Where he states he tries to be normal. It didn't stick of course but maybe those were times where he was spending time with other people outside of Eric. Dylan still kept up on his fantasy baseball games Although I do not know anything about that so IDK if there is anything you really need to "do" with that.

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PostSubject: Re: Best Friends/Friends/Acquaintances   Best Friends/Friends/Acquaintances Icon_minitimeMon Jul 23, 2018 8:44 am

Lizpuff wrote:
I think if you think prior to 98, they would have all been closer.  

However 98 on, I think most friends were just "school friends".  IE the kids you hang out with at school or lunch.  From what it seemed like Dylan and Eric were conjoined at the hip.  I think toward the ends of their lives they hung out with others only so much as they needed to.

However, I do think that there were times that Dylan did try to dig himself out.....at least going off of his journal.  Where he states he tries to be normal.  It didn't stick of course but maybe those were times where he was spending time with other people outside of Eric.  Dylan still kept up on his fantasy baseball games Although I do not know anything about that so IDK if there is anything you really need to "do" with that.

This^^

As we travel thru life, we gain friends, and lose friends. No rhyme or reason.
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PostSubject: Re: Best Friends/Friends/Acquaintances   Best Friends/Friends/Acquaintances Icon_minitimeMon Jul 23, 2018 8:49 am

Lizpuff wrote:
I think if you think prior to 98, they would have all been closer.  

However 98 on, I think most friends were just "school friends".  IE the kids you hang out with at school or lunch.  From what it seemed like Dylan and Eric were conjoined at the hip.  I think toward the ends of their lives they hung out with others only so much as they needed to.

However, I do think that there were times that Dylan did try to dig himself out.....at least going off of his journal.  Where he states he tries to be normal.  It didn't stick of course but maybe those were times where he was spending time with other people outside of Eric.  Dylan still kept up on his fantasy baseball games Although I do not know anything about that so IDK if there is anything you really need to "do" with that.

I think the fantasy baseball league was held at Blackjack, didn’t Dylan get a discount so he joked with everyone that he shouldn’t have to chip in because of that!

I think it was an easy activity that he was good at.. so he could just be friendly and act “normal” there wasn’t much expected of him.
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PostSubject: Re: Best Friends/Friends/Acquaintances   Best Friends/Friends/Acquaintances Icon_minitimeMon Jul 23, 2018 3:40 pm

I've recently looked into Krabbe's book, he's very good at presenting the social background. I'll try to group their social circles in some groups, at least how I see them (the groups aren't mutually exclusive):

1. TCM satellites and associates.
Other than Zach, Devon and Nate, as well as Chris Morris and Nick Baumgart to some extent. By the 98-99 school year, Joe Stair and his group (the "real TCM") all graduated, so E&D were losing touch with them.

A lot has been said about them already. Nate was certainly Dylan's best friend after Eric and Eric's best friend after Dylan. He seems to have been liked by everyone.

Kristi Epling became Nate's GF. I heard various rumours about (some soap opera level) stuff going on between Eric, Kristi and Nate. Kristi mentioned that Nate was jeleaous over her towards Eric.
The soap opera version goes something like this: "Nate liked Kristi, Kristi liked Eric, but Eric at that time liked just Alyssa so Kristi ended up with Nate". I'm not sure I buy this version, but I think I needed to mention it as well.

2. Becca Heins's circle.

Becca herself - Eric seems to have liked her a lo. He wrote in her yearboook and memorial book extensively he left as much (if not more) writing on her books than on those of Zach or Nate. He called her a "devil child" and he and Dylan hanged out with her even the day before the shooting. I saw no evidence to suggest that Eric or Dylan were attracted to her from a romantic viewpoint, but I'd say at least Eric saw her as a friend.

Chad Laughlin for certain. He was in some ways a "conduit" between E&D and many other groups. Chad was friends with Chris Morris IIRC, but also with Becca Heins, with Dylan's fantasy baseball friends (he played it himself) and also took part in some of Dylan's film projects (the bike commercial I think).

There was in this group also Sasha Jacobs, a friend of chad Laughlin, E&D met her through Chad. She dated (very briefly) Dylan and later dated Eric (longer, some between October 1997 and Jan 1998 but again with no great sucess). I'm not sure how they felt towards her in 1999. Eric seems to have been angry at her after splitting up.

I am not sure, but I think E&D met Alyssa Sechler and Brandi Tinkleberg through Becca or Chad Laughlin as well.

3. The Fantasy baseball group.
This involved Chad Laughlin, Dylan,  Chris Hooker and Tim Kastle (the guy who during the shooting hid in the air duct and who Dylan is said to have seen, but spared). Eric din't play it. My memory is fuzzy, but I think Chris Walker might ahve also played.

4. Blackjack crew

Jennifer Laufenberg - She was 1 year older than E&D. They worked with her in the 97-98 year. She was in college in 98-99, but Eric ket in touch with her and had online chats with her when she was in college.

I'm sure they considered Bob Kirgis a friend, even if he was older and their boss for a time. I think Eric even mentions him in very fond terms on the tapes.

There was also the girl (I don't remember the name) whose fatehr was a pyrotechnician. Eric would talk to her about fireworks and bombs.

5. The film crew

Chad Laughlin again, Eric Veik and Mike Vendengia and Chris Walker. Mike was in some ways also a TCM "satellite" like E&D. Chris Walker was a jock, but both E&D seemed to liked him and they invited him to the film group IIRC.

6. Other people

Robyn Anderson. I'm not sure where exactly to place her, since she knew most of Dylan's friends but it seems she actually met them through Dylan.

Katherine „Katie” Thompson. She was meeting or maybe even dating Eric, until her mom banned her from meeting with him (probably because Eric was already after the van brake and was seen as a juvenile criminal). She reported taht eric was weird but cool. I think this all happened sometime in 1998.

Susan Dewitt - I'm not sure how she met Eric.


Conclusion:
All in all, they (Especilly Dylan) really do seem to have had quite a lot of friends. At least by Polish HS standards. We can argue if these were the popular kids or not, but E&D certainly were not loners. These groups allinteracted with one another and in fact Dylan was often the "connectior" between them. Lots of people seem to have met one another through Dylan.


thelmar wrote:
I think you're right that, at least in their last year, Dylan and Eric were the closest.

Devon may have called Dylan her best friend but there was one point at which he wrote that he wouldn't mind killing her because he felt she stole Zach from him. So, how close could they really have been in Dylan's mind?

Unlike with Brooks and Eric, I think Dylan and Devon really made up by late 1998. Dylan was known to call her and hold long phone calls in the evenings or night with her. He wouldn't bother if he did not like her.

thelmar wrote:
I think Dylan kept up appearances with Zach and Nate, doing all the things they usually did, but essentially he held back this monumental secret from them for a year. There is no way that this didn't put distance in their relationships. Maybe they didn't realize it, but it had to have affected Dylan.

They were still friends with Zach, but drifted more away from him during their last year than from other friends. Nate seemed to be a much closer friend to them (especially to Dylan) than Zach by 1999.

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thelmar

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PostSubject: Re: Best Friends/Friends/Acquaintances   Best Friends/Friends/Acquaintances Icon_minitimeMon Jul 23, 2018 6:06 pm

Susan was a receptionist at the Great Clips next to Blackjacks. He would deliver pizzas to the girls there or they would come over and pick them up.
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PostSubject: Re: Best Friends/Friends/Acquaintances   Best Friends/Friends/Acquaintances Icon_minitimeTue Jul 24, 2018 2:26 pm

One thing that Krabbe points out and which I now find important: Eric asked Chris Walker (the jock) to buy weapons for him. Only when Chris declined, did E&D turn to Robyn. Robyn was just "plan B" to E&D.

I think this means they trusted Chris a lot. Because Chris could blow the whole thing down if he brough this to their parents. Looking back at this, I think Chris Walker had a much more important place amongst their friends than we all gave him credit for. Certainly he was more trusted than Robyn.

Also its worth noting that it is the angry and paranoid Eric that approaches Chris. This isn't some fluke like Dylan putting too much trust in his old buddies.

thelmar wrote:
Susan was a receptionist at the Great Clips next to Blackjacks. He would deliver pizzas to the girls there or they would come over and pick them up.

Thanks, that's a good point.
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Screamingophelia
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PostSubject: Re: Best Friends/Friends/Acquaintances   Best Friends/Friends/Acquaintances Icon_minitimeTue Jul 24, 2018 8:34 pm

I forget about Chris Walker, what page is his 11k interview on? I would love to read it again, it is something I haven't thought about.

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PostSubject: Re: Best Friends/Friends/Acquaintances   Best Friends/Friends/Acquaintances Icon_minitimeWed Jul 25, 2018 4:03 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
I forget about Chris Walker, what page is his 11k interview on? I would love to read it again, it is something I haven't thought about.

Don't remember, 11k is somewhere in the depths of my old computer. Chris Walker is probably the most forgotten out of all the important people of E&D's circle.

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PostSubject: Re: Best Friends/Friends/Acquaintances   Best Friends/Friends/Acquaintances Icon_minitimeWed Jul 25, 2018 8:04 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
I forget about Chris Walker, what page is his 11k interview on? I would love to read it again, it is something I haven't thought about.

Walker's police statement starts on pg 2228
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