Diagnosing Dylan Klebold

The reason why I don´t diagnosing both is that you cannot diagnose someone who is dead for a long time and you didn´t know the person. All you have is their journals, videos and some witness statements (and you never know if it is 100 % the truth they tell us)

And I have a friend who got a wrong diagnosing. He suffered a lot. And i have a friend who has multiple results. He is depressive, schizophrenic and has a posttraumatic stress disorder. I heard about his diagnose and got really afraid of him. But he is such a lovely boy and if you meet him, you could not believe it.

no one of us is a psychologist, but maybe someone will come around. ;)

I don't think you can hang your hat on a diagnosis for either of them if I'm honest. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see how you can diagnose someone who's dead, who is still growing up and going through hormone changes, who only left behind what he wanted found (that also applies to Dylan. He did wipe his computer hard drive) and witness reports of that day of course are going to be somewhat skewed.

Dylan, at least in my opinion was very skilled at hiding his emotions. Which is common within people who suffer from depression so the fact the none of his friends could see him as that kind of person does not surprise me in the least.

Wasn't there a video on YouTube where 5 people got together to try and diagnose them? What was the outcome of that?

areyoulistening wrote:

I don't think you can hang your hat on a diagnosis for either of them if I'm honest. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see how you can diagnose someone who's dead, who is still growing up and going through hormone changes, who only left behind what he wanted found (that also applies to Dylan. He did wipe his computer hard drive) and witness reports of that day of course are going to be somewhat skewed.

Dylan, at least in my opinion was very skilled at hiding his emotions. Which is common within people who suffer from depression so the fact the none of his friends could see him as that kind of person does not surprise me in the least.

But when you dont see how it is possible to diagnose someone who is dead, why then you are sure, that he had depression?

Hale-Bopp wrote:

areyoulistening wrote:

I don't think you can hang your hat on a diagnosis for either of them if I'm honest. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see how you can diagnose someone who's dead, who is still growing up and going through hormone changes, who only left behind what he wanted found (that also applies to Dylan. He did wipe his computer hard drive) and witness reports of that day of course are going to be somewhat skewed.

Dylan, at least in my opinion was very skilled at hiding his emotions. Which is common within people who suffer from depression so the fact the none of his friends could see him as that kind of person does not surprise me in the least.

But when you dont see how it is possible to diagnose someone who is dead, why then you are sure, that he had depression?

Because Dylan took St John's Wort, which is a herbal medicine used for depression. If he willingly took it, it means that he at least realized that he needed a mood boost. You don't take herbal depression medication for kicks.

areyoulistening wrote:

Hale-Bopp wrote:

areyoulistening wrote:

I don't think you can hang your hat on a diagnosis for either of them if I'm honest. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see how you can diagnose someone who's dead, who is still growing up and going through hormone changes, who only left behind what he wanted found (that also applies to Dylan. He did wipe his computer hard drive) and witness reports of that day of course are going to be somewhat skewed.

Dylan, at least in my opinion was very skilled at hiding his emotions. Which is common within people who suffer from depression so the fact the none of his friends could see him as that kind of person does not surprise me in the least.

But when you dont see how it is possible to diagnose someone who is dead, why then you are sure, that he had depression?

Because Dylan took St John's Wort, which is a herbal medicine used for depression. If he willingly took it, it means that he at least realized that he needed a mood boost. You don't take herbal depression medication for kicks.

St Johns Wort is not only used to cure depression, but also for less severe moods just as nervousness or anxiety. To diagnose Dylan with depression, just because he used a mood lifting medicament is not really....eh....admissible.;) 
Diagnosing Depression is not different from diagnosing any other disorder. To make the diagnosis 100 percent, you need to have direct contact with the person and you need to be a psychiatrist.
No, the reason that we can assume that Dylan very likely suffered from depression (as well as schizo-typical personality disorder) is that the behaviour he showed in school, with friends and with his family and more important, the feelings and thoughts he wrote in his journal does strongly fit with what we know about depression and schizo-typical personality disorder.

Yes, he had depression. I read his journal and I have depression and got to know others who have this illness. So I am sure he had it. About other mental illness i don´t know much.

Kass' book does bring up the possible schizo-typical diagnosis for Dylan as well as depression. Sorry, I can't give the full reference to this as I lent my Kass book! Also mentionned is possible pre-schizophenia. It's post-mortem diagnosis so, it may not be entirely accurate but we do have a lot of writings to base our analysis on.

Dr. Langman at the schoolshooters info website (http://www.schoolshooters.info/PL/Subject-Harris-Klebold_files/Rampage%20School%20Shooters-%20A%20Typology.pdf) wrote a paper on the typology of school shooters. Basically, there are three types of school shooters: psychopath, psychotic and mistreated. You can discuss the typology and may not agree with it, of course. However, that's as much a theory as another.

He says Dylan fell under the psychotic typology which does not necessarily involve full-blown psychosis (as is the case of other shooters) but in Dylan's case schizotypical personality disorder (not a mental illness but a PD as others have mentionned): oddness, disconnection from reality, etc. That's apparent in some of Dylan's writings and behaviour.

Personally, his words during the shooting makes me think he was considerably disconnected from what was happening (which is necessary I guess to commit such an act), he might have felt like he was in a movie or a video game at the time. But that may or may not be part of schizotypical PD. Maybe it's just what was required of him in order to kill.

A good question is: why did he kill if he had ''only'' depression and schizotypical DP? Many have that combination and don't do it. Depression is not just ''woe is me'' type of brooding feeling but you can feel aggressive and homicidal. Add the other factors in Dylan's life.

I saw a post on Tumblr, and please don't ask me to find it again, where somebody compared the weight on Dylan's driver's license and on the autopsy photo. If the weight listed on his driver's license was accurate, he lost about 60 lbs (27 kg) during that time period. Weight loss is typically associated with depression, although not exclusively.

My first thought was "who puts their real weight on their driver's license?" My second thought was "wouldn't somebody notice if he lost that much weight?"

Any thoughts from anybody else on that?

As far as diagnosing Dylan...I'm not sure I could even hazard a guess. I often get the feeling that Dylan was just playing with us. Yes, us specifically. They clearly expected and planned for "followers" - I'm willing to include researchers in that category - and Dylan was extremely careful about what evidence he left behind. Not saying that the journal was not truthful as to what he was feeling, but I don't entirely trust it. Certainly not enough to try and develop a diagnosis from it.

Dylan's journal can be confusing in so many places, not just because of its telegraphic style but also because of its mass of sublime surrealism. I don't get the feel Dylan's journal was as expository, ''posing'' like Eric's journal.

I don´t think that Dylan played in his journal. You forget that he began to write this journal before they decided NBK.

JayJay wrote:

Dylan's journal can be confusing in so many places, not just because of its telegraphic style but also because of its mass of sublime surrealism. I don't get the feel Dylan's journal was as expository, ''posing'' like Eric's journal.

em81 wrote:

I don´t think that Dylan played in his journal. You forget that he began to write this journal before they decided NBK.

I don't necessarily mean that his journal was fake or created to give us a certain perception of him.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that Dylan left what he wanted us to see. And the journal was a very small part of the overall picture. It leaves us with a clear, definite view of a depressed and unhappy teenager who wanted to be loved. But there was more to Dylan than that. We don't see the violence in Dylan like we did in Eric, although we know now that it was there. He was so good at hiding his true self. When people heard that Eric was involved, there was no shock. But Dylan.....he was such a "nice guy". If you read that journal without knowing who it belonged to, you would not be capable of imagining the lengths the writer would go to. Suicide, yes....but homicide, let alone mass murder?

Whatever he erased from his hard drive, the information we can't access, I think it would have told us far more about the "real" Dylan than his journal did. Just my opinion, though.

Wideawake wrote:

New postSubject: Re: Diagnosing Dylan Klebold   Today at 4:02 pm Select/Unselect multi-quote Reply with quote
JayJay wrote:
Dylan's journal can be confusing in so many places, not just because of its telegraphic style but also because of its mass of sublime surrealism. I don't get the feel Dylan's journal was as expository, ''posing'' like Eric's journal.


em81 wrote:
I don´t think that Dylan played in his journal. You forget that he began to write this journal before they decided NBK.

I don't necessarily mean that his journal was fake or created to give us a certain perception of him.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that Dylan left what he wanted us to see. And the journal was a very small part of the overall picture. It leaves us with a clear, definite view of a depressed and unhappy teenager who wanted to be loved. But there was more to Dylan than that. We don't see the violence in Dylan like we did in Eric, although we know now that it was there. He was so good at hiding his true self. When people heard that Eric was involved, there was no shock. But Dylan.....he was such a "nice guy". If you read that journal without knowing who it belonged to, you would not be capable of imagining the lengths the writer would go to. Suicide, yes....but homicide, let alone mass murder?

Whatever he erased from his hard drive, the information we can't access, I think it would have told us far more about the "real" Dylan than his journal did. Just my opinion, though.

Exactly. Although Dylan's journal did sound very "ethereal" in some ways, he could've just been feigning it. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he had documents on his hard-drive spewing out hate like Eric did.

Wideawake wrote:

New postSubject: Re: Diagnosing Dylan Klebold   Today at 4:02 pm Select/Unselect multi-quote Reply with quote
JayJay wrote:
Dylan's journal can be confusing in so many places, not just because of its telegraphic style but also because of its mass of sublime surrealism. I don't get the feel Dylan's journal was as expository, ''posing'' like Eric's journal.


em81 wrote:
I don´t think that Dylan played in his journal. You forget that he began to write this journal before they decided NBK.

I don't necessarily mean that his journal was fake or created to give us a certain perception of him.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that Dylan left what he wanted us to see. And the journal was a very small part of the overall picture. It leaves us with a clear, definite view of a depressed and unhappy teenager who wanted to be loved. But there was more to Dylan than that. We don't see the violence in Dylan like we did in Eric, although we know now that it was there. He was so good at hiding his true self. When people heard that Eric was involved, there was no shock. But Dylan.....he was such a "nice guy". If you read that journal without knowing who it belonged to, you would not be capable of imagining the lengths the writer would go to. Suicide, yes....but homicide, let alone mass murder?

Whatever he erased from his hard drive, the information we can't access, I think it would have told us far more about the "real" Dylan than his journal did. Just my opinion, though.

JDM87 wrote:

Exactly. Although Dylan's journal did sound very "ethereal" in some ways, he could've just been feigning it. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he had documents on his hard-drive spewing out hate like Eric did.

Dylan wiped his hard drive which means there was a good possibility partial data could have been recovered. You literally have to smash the drive apart for it to be irretreivable (which is something that Adam Lanza made sure to do before his spree).   So, if Dylan had any sort of similiar hate spew on his hardddrive, the likes of Eric, would that not be important evidence to release along with both their journals? This would have been the perfect opportunity for Jeffco and the media to villanize both Dylan as equally as Eric.  Yet, Dylan's drive was taken, and as far as I know, it's been in the hands of Jeffco ever since.  Personally, I feel that Dylan's journals represent the real him, the self dubbed "god of sadness", this IS the side that nobody saw - not his friends, (except maybe Zack), nor even his brother or parents . No one had an inkling how depressed and alienated and "different" he felt, or contemptously jealous of others  that he felt had an easier time of life's successes (jocks). The anger didn't translate from mind to pen but, instead, he finally gave himself full permission to release/unleash it all on 4/20.  His suppressed 'wrath' revealed.  Dylan carefully selected those words to represent him on 'Judgement Day'.   I tend to think his computer shows other facets of himself that he kept secret and was ashamed of - his obsession with extreme forms of porn and foot fetish (which most guys are pretty darn sheepish about.)  The form of porn he engaged in was another way to exorcise the hatred and self hatred, the lack of control and wanting to have it.   I also think he was a very private person. He considered all of his online conversations with friends, with girls, something that was his and not something for public consumption.  I recall reading a Meme Devon Adams did quite a while ago on Myspace and she speaks of how she still has saved all of her chat conversations with 'a friend that died.'
Anyway, I believe that Dylan at the very last minute decided not to destroy but preserve his written journals. It was a left behind confession of his pain and inner struggles that  perhaps he thought only his parents would be privy to.  He had written he would leave no notes for us and yet he did.

Bumping this, because I just realized, that I forgot to quote the post, where the actual diagnosis went down. Sometimes I am so disorganized...

Sabratha wrote:

Like I said, I'm a psychology student, but I'm not a professional specializing in abnormal psychology. However I'm very familiar with Millon's works, particularly his theories concerning schizoids.

In this case I'm pretty sure that a Schizotypal diagnosis is much more fitting and explains much more about Dylan than an avoidant diagnosis.

To explain in depth what I mean, let me quote the DSM-IV TR criteria of an Avoidant PD (4 or more are enough to diagnose avoidant PD):
Quote:
1) Avoids occupational activities that involve significant interpersonal contact, because of fears of criticism, disapproval, or rejection.
2) Is unwilling to get involved with people unless certain of being liked
3) Shows restraint initiating intimate relationships because of the fear of being ashamed, ridiculed, or rejected due to severe low self-worth.
4) Is preoccupied with being criticized or rejected in social situations
5) Is inhibited in new interpersonal situations because of feelings of inadequacy
6) Views self as socially inept, personally unappealing, or inferior to others
7) Is unusually reluctant to take personal risks or to engage in any new activities because they may prove embarrassing




Now the Schizotypal criteria (the presence of 5 or more are enough to diagnose Schizotypal PD):
Quote:
1)Ideas of reference (excluding delusions of reference)
2) Odd beliefs or magical thinking that influences behavior and is inconsistent with subcultural norms (e.g., superstitiousness, bizarre fantasies or preoccupations)
3) Unusual perceptual experiences, including bodily illusions
4) Odd thinking and speech (e.g., vague, circumstantial, metaphorical, overelaborate, or stereotyped)
5) Suspiciousness or paranoid ideation
6) Inappropriate or constricted affect
7) Behavior or appearance that is odd, eccentric, or peculiar
Lack of close friends or confidants other than first-degree relatives
9) Social anxiety that tends to be associated with paranoid fears rather than negative judgments about self




Now, one should realize that Schizoid PD, Schizotypal PD, Avoidant PD and some social phobias have a set of common traits and can be easily msitaken for one another. Its the presence of some "small" traits that often escape the untrained eye, that make the "bog" difference.

For example some Schizoids are very similar to some Avoidants. The difference is that avoidants are afraid of social contact, while schizoids simply do not want to engage in it, but do not experience fear.

Back to Dylan:
A simple avoidant diagnosis would be possible, but the schizotypal diagnosis fits better and explains some very unusual traits of Dylan that are left unanswered in case of an avoidant diagnosis. Thus IMHO a schizotyapl diagnosis should take precedence.

Dylan clearly had strong ideas of reference ("The lost highway" and "NBK" - Eric had that too, but to a far lesser degree and his beliefs were more rooted in reality so to speak).

"Magical thinking and odd beliefs" - Dylan seems a textbook case, really. Its actually quite rare to see such obvious and clear examples of this in someone's writings as you can see in Dylan's journal. His ideas of "love" (he has a very unusual use of this word), his ideas of "Halycon", his ideas of "fakeness and artificiality", his ideas of "infinity", his concept of "zombies"... all seem to be perfect, even textbook examples.

Dylan did have "unusual perceptual experiences including bodily illusions". He himself wrote: "when did Dylan Benet Klebold got covered up by this entity containing Dylan's body" or "It's interesting, when i'm in my human form, knowing i'm going to die. Everything has a touch of triviality to it."
Its rare to get such glimpses inot one's percetions just through one's writings, but Dylan provided us such glimpses.

"Odd thinking and speech (e.g., vague, circumstantial, metaphorical, overelaborate, or stereotyped)" - Hard to say without more material (interview, a longer video of him talking about something in depth), but we are all familiar with his vague and metaphorical way of writing. If his way of writing was a good example of his way of thinking then I think we all agree that he fits this criterion perfectly. Plus his talk about halycon or self-awareness is definitally not something commont to average 1990s teenagers.

"Suspiciousness or paranoid ideation" - This in my opinion the criterion which makes me convinced that if Dylan had anyhthing, then it was this criterion tha makes me sure that he had Schizotypal, not avoidant PD.
Avoidants are "afraid" of other people, but they seek their love and acceptance. They are almost never "paranoid" in the clinical sense.
Dylan WAS paranoid. He wrote: "everyone is conspiring against me" and "All people i ever might have loved have abandoned me, my parents piss me off & hate me". He wasn't afraid of people, he was disgusted and felt superior to them.

"Inappropriate or constricted affect" - Unlike what it seems, this sin't as much about ideas of affection (like dylan's ideas of love) but rather actions and behavior.
Without knowing or observing Dylan, its not really possible to determine this.

"Behavior or appearance that is odd, eccentric, or peculiar" - I don't think I need to comment on this. Everyone who knew hoe Dylan dressed and behaved knows what I mean.

"Lack of close friends or confidants other than first-degree relatives" - Nope, doesn't apply to Dylan.

"Social anxiety that tends to be associated with paranoid fears rather than negative judgments about self" - Debatable, because Dylan had both paranoid fears AND negative judgements about self and we cannot be sure what was the cause. So without an interview or observation of a live specimen of Dylan Klebold, we cannot really say if it fits or not.

So all in all we get 6 citerions he fits (often perfectly), 2 criterions he may or may not fit (observation would be required to clear our doubts) and one that he doesn't fit. Overall this is more than enough to make a Schizotypal hypotesis.

HOWEVER let me once again state: "any diagnosis made without actual contact with the individual is only speculative". Since Dylan is dead NOBODY can make a definite diagnosis.

I just provided arguments in favor of the Schizotypal hypotesis and the more I learn about Dylan, the more I'm sure that its a very plausible possiblity.

I don't know if Dylan wanted people to read his journal or not.  Maybe he forgot to set it on fire?

819234 wrote:

I don't know if Dylan wanted people to read his journal or not.  Maybe he forgot to set it on fire?

That would be pretty amusing, really. Picture him telling Eric, moments before the bombs are supposed to go off, "Shit, man! I forgot to burn my journal, call it off!"

Seriously though...my thought on the journal is that it perfectly portrays a lovelorn teen who desperately wants to find his soulmate or die alone. And while I'm not arguing that this is true of him, there was so much more. His violent, angry side (to me) never comes out in his journal, just as it rarely comes out in his real life. Obviously it was there. And if the basement tapes transcripts are at all accurate, he was aware of that side and enjoyed letting it come out to play.

There is also very little in the journal about his home life. I find it odd that, though there are rants about girls, friends and people at school, nothing is mentioned about his parents or really any authority figures in his life. (If I'm wrong on this, let me know. It's been a bit since I read his journal in it's entirety.) He allegedly spent a significant amount of time with his father, had negative interactions with teachers at school and with at least one supervisor at work...don't you think someone as introspective as Dylan would want to explore his thoughts/feelings on those situations?

Maybe I'm way off base here, or maybe JeffCo just isn't giving us everything. But I feel like there are some pretty important pieces missing from this puzzle, and Dylan was certainly intelligent enough for that to have been a deliberate move. To what purpose, you ask? No fucking clue.

Wideawake wrote:

819234 wrote:

I don't know if Dylan wanted people to read his journal or not.  Maybe he forgot to set it on fire?

That would be pretty amusing, really. Picture him telling Eric, moments before the bombs are supposed to go off, "Shit, man! I forgot to burn my journal, call it off!"

Seriously though...my thought on the journal is that it perfectly portrays a lovelorn teen who desperately wants to find his soulmate or die alone. And while I'm not arguing that this is true of him, there was so much more. His violent, angry side (to me) never comes out in his journal, just as it rarely comes out in his real life. Obviously it was there. And if the basement tapes transcripts are at all accurate, he was aware of that side and enjoyed letting it come out to play.

There is also very little in the journal about his home life. I find it odd that, though there are rants about girls, friends and people at school, nothing is mentioned about his parents or really any authority figures in his life. (If I'm wrong on this, let me know. It's been a bit since I read his journal in it's entirety.)

I think there are two parts, where he complains about his parents:

Dylan wrote:

Some god I am…. all people I ever might have loved have abandoned me, my parents piss me off & hate me … want me to have fuckin ambition!!

and

Dylan wrote:

(By the way, some zombies are smarter than others, some manipulate … like my parents.)

Cullen focuses almost entirely on Dylan's depression, but Langman adds [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Dylan was not as flagrantly psychotic as the other psychotic school shooters. Until the release of his journal in July, 2006 there was little indication of disturbed thought processes. Also, whereas the other psychotic shooters appear to have been schizophrenic, Dylan appears to have had schizotypal personality disorder.

As is often the case with schizotypals, Dylan struck many people as odd. The thousands of interviews conducted by the Jefferson County Sheriff’s Office (JCSO) in the wake of the attack contain numerous comments from Dylan’s peers about his odd behavior, his greasy, dirty hair, his unusual clothes, and his general “goofiness” (JCSO,1999, pp.172, 444, 556, 785, 5,036, 7,231, 9,820, 16,408).

Dylan’s journal also provides evidence that his thought process was disturbed (JCSO, 1999, pp. 26,385–26,417). He misused language in a number of ways. He created neologisms, distorting actual words into words that do not exist. He had tangled grammar and odd passages of inarticulate content. This never became “word salad” as in the speech of schizophrenics, but given that Dylan was a bright young man his misuse of language is noteworthy.

lasttrain wrote:

Cullen focuses almost entirely on Dylan's depression, but Langman adds [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Dylan was not as flagrantly psychotic as the other psychotic school shooters. Until the release of his journal in July, 2006 there was little indication of disturbed thought processes. Also, whereas the other psychotic shooters appear to have been schizophrenic, Dylan appears to have had schizotypal personality disorder.

As is often the case with schizotypals, Dylan struck many people as odd. The thousands of interviews conducted by the Jefferson County Sheriff’s Office (JCSO) in the wake of the attack contain numerous comments from Dylan’s peers about his odd behavior, his greasy, dirty hair, his unusual clothes, and his general “goofiness” (JCSO,1999, pp.172, 444, 556, 785, 5,036, 7,231, 9,820, 16,408).

Dylan’s journal also provides evidence that his thought process was disturbed (JCSO, 1999, pp. 26,385–26,417). He misused language in a number of ways. He created neologisms, distorting actual words into words that do not exist. He had tangled grammar and odd passages of inarticulate content. This never became “word salad” as in the speech of schizophrenics, but given that Dylan was a bright young man his misuse of language is noteworthy.

Then, there's a lot of gifted teenagers who must have schizotypal personality disorder! Being odd, ''misusing language'', etc.

Plus, not washing is a common occurrence in teenagers, especially male teens, as well as with people with depression. The stink in high schools is something to get used to.

JayJay wrote:

Then, there's a lot of gifted teenagers who must have schizotypal personality disorder! Being odd, ''misusing language'', etc.

Plus, not washing is a common occurrence in teenagers, especially male teens, as well as with people with depression. The stink in high schools is something to get used to.

Yes but when clinical psychologists cite symptoms like "misusing language," they have in mind very specific kinds of language patterns indicative of mental problems. These misuses of language have been observed again and again in clinical contexts.

I am not saying that Dylan was in the beginning stages of schizotypal personality disorder. We'll never know. But he attempted to murder hundreds of his classmates, succeeded in murdering several, and killed himself--all under the delusion that he and "his love" could "be free" from "zombies."

Sound like any old "gifted teenager" to you?

lasttrain wrote:

JayJay wrote:

Then, there's a lot of gifted teenagers who must have schizotypal personality disorder! Being odd, ''misusing language'', etc.

Plus, not washing is a common occurrence in teenagers, especially male teens, as well as with people with depression. The stink in high schools is something to get used to.

Yes but when clinical psychologists cite symptoms like "misusing language," they have in mind very specific kinds of language patterns indicative of mental problems.  These misuses of language have been observed again and again in clinical contexts.

I am not saying that Dylan was in the beginning stages of schizotypal personality disorder.  We'll never know.  But he attempted to murder hundreds of his classmates, succeeded in murdering several, and killed himself--all under the delusion that he and "his love" could "be free" from "zombies."

Sound like any old "gifted teenager" to you?

No, not at all. His thought processes were clearly disordered.

There might be something to the idea that Dylan was on the schizotypal spectrum.

Bit of an older topic but I thought I'd chime in.

I have to admit I'm not a huge fan of typical classifications for people when it comes to Psychology.

When it comes to Dylan I have to be careful not to draw too many parallels with myself. Although we may never truly know: I feel that Dylan was in fact the product of the environment he was brought up in. He could have been gifted. But mostly he strikes me as damaged.

I will admit that I have not spent much time analyzing his writings but there is a lot of literature about malignant fantasies that I feel would fit in this contexts. I've experienced these myself. In short, fantasies became reality for these two. At first they might have been an escape but slowly with time and with increased mental instability these fantasies were not enough.

I feel as though it is most difficult to thing that someone who was normal at some point in time could have contributed to 13 deaths. But I also think that's what is most intriguing about this case.

Well, for starters: I'm the person that started the original "Diagnosing Dylan Klebold" forum thread on the SCMRPG forums years back. The lenghty post by "Sabratha" that the OP author quoted above is mine as well.


I stick by my guns on this one:
1) We can never accurately diagnose a deceased person if he was not through a directed psychological evaluation during his lifetime.
2) We can make an educated assessment based on the available information like witness reports or writings of the deceased. This is speculation, not actual formal diagnosis. But we can make a rational and educated assessment here.
3) Dylan was by all accounts depressed. However, if he had anything else it was Schizotypal Personality Disorder. In the original thread (and the post quoted here) I gave my reasons why I think this is so.

BTW, when I made the original thread years ago, I was not aware of Langman making the same assessment - that Dylan had schizotypal PD. For vanity reasons alone, I will assume Langman just read my original post and is just repeating what I found. ;)

Jenn wrote:

Wasn't there a video on YouTube where 5 people got together to try and diagnose them? What was the outcome of that?

Anyone has a link?

I am pretty sure it was this documentary:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

One problem with diagnosing Dylan is that most of his thinking isn't original at all. Most of his ideas seem to be copied from New Age and possibly from survivalist culture.

I'm pretty sure that Dylan haven't invented calling non-aware people zombies. In survivalist culture zombie is a code-name for non-preppers. In new age culture it could be a codename for materialists.

Diagnosing someone is simply finding an established label that exists for the purposes of identifying a cluster of symptoms that usually go together for the purpose of treating the individual. Trying to diagnose Dylan or Eric is a pointless pursuit. Having a label that defines a cluster of symptoms doesn't explain anything, it doesn't change anything, and it doesn't stop future shooters.

We don't have all the information, so we can't even guess at what a proper diagnosis would have been. Just my two dollars.