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Screamingophelia
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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 18, 2018 10:23 pm

He was good friends with Eric starting in 8th grade, so that is not accurate.

According to A Mothers Reckoning Sue said they were good friends in 8th grade and they won awards for Math, I guess they walked up to the stage to get their award and she said they looked like two peas in a pod, but then Dylan had a growth spurt shortly after.

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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 18, 2018 10:30 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
He was good friends with Eric starting in 8th grade, so that is not accurate.
Ah, my bad. I could've sworn I remember reading that he didn't know Eric well until high school in Brooks Brown's No Easy Answers.

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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 18, 2018 10:46 pm

No worries. I think they became best friends (though that description is debated on) the summer before junior year. I am not sure how close they were when Eric screamed at him at the soccer game. However they were at least in a similar friends group in 8th grade. I think Eric moved in 7th?



I thought Eric got most of his friends like Nate, Zach and Brooks through Dylan.

Eric was friends with Chris, Alyssa and a few others separately, you don't hear some of them talk too much about Dylan at least from what I recall. I imagine Kristi knew Dylan well when she was dating Nate.

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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 18, 2018 11:40 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
According to witnesses Dylan yelled "I am going to kill myself" then the one most people mention "this is the day the world ends, this is the day we (I) die"

For some reason I always feel like the latter should be attributed to Eric. Maybe I'm getting details confused though.

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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Dec 19, 2018 1:21 am

I coon imagine that may have been him. I don’t know why I’ve always assumed it was Dylan.


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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Dec 19, 2018 8:46 am

rebel2013 wrote:
I remember hearing in a interview that Dylan was very gullible that you could talk him to doing anything.

Yes sue said that. She said she used to think it was a good thing that Dylan was very "moldable" and that you could change his mind with very little argument but she stated that is why she thought Eric was able to "coerce" him into what they did

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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Dec 19, 2018 9:18 am

Lizpuff wrote:
rebel2013 wrote:
I remember hearing in a interview that Dylan was very gullible that you could talk him to doing anything.

Yes sue said that.  She said she used to think it was a good thing that Dylan was very "moldable" and that you could change his mind with very little argument but she stated that is why she thought Eric was able to "coerce" him into what they did

This could be true, there are people that I think are easily manipulated. I even talked a few friends in high school to doing things they really didn't want to do that still to this day surprises me. And if the people being manipulated are depressed I could see it being even easier making them believe that pigs fly.
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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Dec 19, 2018 10:42 am

like for example Robyn talked him into going to prom even though he didn't really want to.
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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Dec 22, 2018 5:50 am

It is one thing to talk someone into going to prom or buying you a hot dog. It is an altogether different thing to talk someone into a mass murder with eight-month preparations. Dylan may have been gullible, but he was not stupid.

...

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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Dec 22, 2018 6:31 am

My opinion?

Most of the people co-responsible for the massacre ditched their responsibility and said "no no no!"

It is not and it will never be on the two only.

It's their parents, the culture that shaped them (we are being fed blood and conflict everywhere, all the time), it's also pricks like Mr. Manson who will swear he is getting scapegoated and victimized, but in fact, he is a hypocrite who will do just about anything to get attention and notoriety, which, come to nitty-gritty, is what E&D did, and then he will whine "there are people who do much worse things than play and sing!"

Like kill people?

Yeah, well, fuck you M&Ms. You posture like you do precisely to shock and create a conflict and stir up shit and have teenagers relating and spending their parents' money on your schlock -- at any cost -- because whatever they do inspired by you, you can easily downplay as their own deed.

It's Jeffco. What a bunch of incompetent pricks. They got Eric served on a silver platter. And they said "no thanks!"

They could have arrived at the school much faster and they should have done something. No thanks! They'll keep their fat asses out and wait till the shit solves itself.

What will they do to prevent more killings though? Burn the basement tapes! Why take a look at a suspect while he publicly declares he's gonna kill people when you can let him do it and burn his videotapes afterwards.

The gun policies. I mean, the USA has not had to endure a war within its border since the nineteenth century. Yet regular citizens seem to cuddle their guns like teddy bears. What the fuck do they expect? While the argument a determined killer will find the way to get a gun is somewhat valid, once guns stop being given away with cornflakes, someone looking for/buying a gun will be much more suspect. Thus people noticing and contacting authorities will be way more likely.

"Friends". They had no clue, they did not notice anything, they could have done nothing, really, nothing. Okay. Let's not call them friends then. They were just bystanders all along.

Last but not least, it's people like you and me too. We're obsessed with violence, culture of violence and we more or less idolize shits like Dylan and Eric, thus making the dots connect, go full circle and encourage more twats to at least contemplate getting cheaply notorious via ending as many lives as possible.
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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Dec 22, 2018 9:11 am

My unpopular opinion: full responsibility for the murders lies with Eric and Dylan.
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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Dec 23, 2018 1:29 am

patogen wrote:
It is not and it will never be on the two only.

Wow, so there was a third shooter then?

Jokes aside, I have to ask why? Aren't people responsible for their own actions? Did anyone stick a gun to Eric and Dylan's heads, or the heads of their parents and families and tell them "go do it"? Because if the answer to that question is no, then blaming anyone but the two people who pulled the triggers is a distraction at best.

Yeah, people acted negligently, people didn't do the right thing, and their fuck-ups were part of what caused the killings to happen. But the only reason why their fuck-ups matter at all, was because of two teens who acted on their worst impulses.

patogen wrote:
it's also pricks like Mr. Manson who will swear he is getting scapegoated and victimized, but in fact, he is a hypocrite who will do just about anything to get attention and notoriety, which, come to nitty-gritty, is what E&D did, and then he will whine "there are people who do much worse things than play and sing!"

Like kill people?

Yeah, well, fuck you M&Ms. You posture like you do precisely to shock and create a conflict and stir up shit and have teenagers relating and spending their parents' money on your schlock -- at any cost -- because whatever they do inspired by you, you can easily downplay as their own deed.

"inspired"?

Eric and Dylan preferred NIN, KMFDM, and Rammstein over Manson. What did Manson "inspire" Eric and Dylan to do when they weren't even avid fans of his music?




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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 24, 2018 2:43 am

Not too sure if this would be considered an "unpopular opinion" or perhaps possible fact, But I watched this cafeteria surveillance footage, and was matching the times up from the video with the 911 calls and here are a few things I noticed.

*911 answers patti neilsons call and states "911" at 11:27:47 a.m. thus starting the 911 call in the library

*@11:32:00 a.m.
Eric and Dylan are heard yelling "Get Up" and Patti Neilson states the gunmen are now in the library

*@11:33:00
Patti Neilson leaves the telephone hanging off the receiver (Thus ending the library 911 call released to the public out of the full 26min call)

*@11:34:53 a.m.
John Savage is seen running down the stairs leading into the commons and out of the school.

*@11:36:43
Pipe bomb is thrown down into the commons. (indicating Eric & Dylan were no longer in the library.)


@ 11:37:25 more pipe bombs are being thrown into the commons as well and Eric and Dylan eventually enter the commons from the staircase @ 11:44:28

What I seem to have gathered based off the 911 calls and the Surveillance is that the killing spree of everyone in the library all occurred within a 4 minute time frame, which makes sense I'm sure everything happened so quickly and felt like a lifetime for all involved but John Savage was let go only 2 mins into them entering the library, so I don't believe they were in the library for no longer than 5 mins tops! (precisely 4 minutes if you ask me LOL)

I guess it was just a weird finding to me because having only read the 11K report most students thought it was any between 10-20mins they were in there. Dylan was right when he said "Seconds will feel like hours"

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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 24, 2018 10:21 am

It’s really striking to think of what a short amount of time they were in the library Sad


I think it was comparable with the length of time of Parkland.

It feels longer since many survivors weren’t let out or rescued until nearly 4pm Sad

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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 24, 2018 10:39 am

They were in the library for about 7 and 1/2 minutes. The timelines are off because the different agencies clocks were not synched. This is the official explanation:

During the first two weeks of the investigation, investigators learned that the Jefferson County Sheriff’s Office had recently calibrated its digital clocks used for dispatch tapes with the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) atomic clock in Boulder, Colorado.  Therefore, the Jefferson County Sheriff’s Office dispatch time was the standard used for the timeline.  It was further learned that the Sheriff’s Office 911 times had not yet been calibrated and were fast by two minutes and 46 seconds.  The Littleton Fire Department dispatch time was four minutes slow and the fire alarm from Columbine High School was three minutes slow. The times on the cafeteria videotape matched the Sheriff’s Office dispatch time.

   In order to accurately reflect the events occurring on April 20, it became necessary to adjust the times so that they were synchronized to one time -- in this case, the Jefferson County Sheriff’s Office dispatch time. The following changes were made and are reflected in the finished timeline:

   4 minutes were added to the Littleton Fire Department dispatch time

   3 minutes were added to the school fire alarm time

   2 minutes 46 seconds were subtracted from the Jefferson County 911 time

   No adjustments were made to the high school cafeteria surveillance tape.

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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 24, 2018 10:46 am

Screamingophelia wrote:
It’s really striking to think of what a short amount of time they were in the library Sad


I think it was comparable with the length of time of Parkland.

It feels longer since many survivors weren’t let out or rescued until nearly 4pm Sad



The amount of damage they did in that time is what gets me. SO many lives just gone, and so many others changed from that moment on. No
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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 24, 2018 11:36 am

ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
It’s really striking to think of what a short amount of time they were in the library Sad


I think it was comparable with the length of time of Parkland.

It feels longer since many survivors weren’t let out or rescued until nearly 4pm Sad



The amount of damage they did in that time is what gets me. SO many lives just gone, and so many others changed from that moment on. No


You’re just sitting there and everything changes. I wouldn’t even think you’d have time to react or think

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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 24, 2018 11:42 am

Screamingophelia wrote:
ShadowedGoddess wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
It’s really striking to think of what a short amount of time they were in the library Sad


I think it was comparable with the length of time of Parkland.

It feels longer since many survivors weren’t let out or rescued until nearly 4pm Sad



The amount of damage they did in that time is what gets me. SO many lives just gone, and so many others changed from that moment on. No


You’re just sitting there and everything changes. I wouldn’t even think you’d have time to react or think


To be honest I truly wish they didn't have time to think, to be scared. But we know they did. Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 24, 2018 11:59 am

I read an article by Dave Cullen on Joe Stack and he sounded like an arrogant douche. No way I'd waste my shekels on his book.
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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 24, 2018 12:38 pm

QuestionMark wrote:
patogen wrote:
It is not and it will never be on the two only.

Wow, so there was a third shooter then?

Jokes aside, I have to ask why? Aren't people responsible for their own actions? Did anyone stick a gun to Eric and Dylan's heads, or the heads of their parents and families and tell them "go do it"? Because if the answer to that question is no, then blaming anyone but the two people who pulled the triggers is a distraction at best.

I didn't say or even suggest they weren't responsible for what they did. They're culprits. But it is not on them only. They were a product of many, many aspects of society and their age. Just like you are.

QuestionMark wrote:
Yeah, people acted negligently, people didn't do the right thing, and their fuck-ups were part of what caused the killings to happen. But the only reason why their fuck-ups matter at all, was because of two teens who acted on their worst impulses.

See above. If POLICE acted properly, those two, or at least one of them ended in mental hospital instead of killing a dozen of people. POLICE failed. The system around them failed. Their parents failed.    

QuestionMark wrote:
patogen wrote:
it's also pricks like Mr. Manson who will swear he is getting scapegoated and victimized, but in fact, he is a hypocrite who will do just about anything to get attention and notoriety, which, come to nitty-gritty, is what E&D did, and then he will whine "there are people who do much worse things than play and sing!"

Like kill people?

Yeah, well, fuck you M&Ms. You posture like you do precisely to shock and create a conflict and stir up shit and have teenagers relating and spending their parents' money on your schlock -- at any cost -- because whatever they do inspired by you, you can easily downplay as their own deed.

"inspired"?

Eric and Dylan preferred NIN, KMFDM, and Rammstein over Manson. What did Manson "inspire" Eric and Dylan to do when they weren't even avid fans of his music?

I said "pricks like" him. I never even suggested he inspired them to do what they did. I was merely talking about the way he ditched the responsibility for what his fans end up doing. Because that, in principle, is part of what contributes to people doing stupid things.

I'm just an artist / I'm not responsible for what people do inspired by my art (all I care about is copyright and royalties) / thus I can violate, provoke and stir up conflict as much as I want -- just to get attention / In case of backlash, I'll point at gun factories

The truth is, without Doom and NBK and some of music, the thought wouldn't have probably crossed their minds. We can't just give culture a moral leeway and leave it out of the equation. We're all influenced by it. So were E&Dylan. Of course, most people are not impressionable / insane enough to see NBK and think "whoa, what a neat idea! I'm gonna kill some people too!"

But culture does help shape who we are and how we think. It does. So let's not bullshit ourselves.

Eric and Dylan, and what they carried out, were just another facet of our society.
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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 24, 2018 1:17 pm

SandraSmit19 wrote:
This one isn't so much an unpopular opinion as it is just a feeling and I don't know how relevant it is but... I think Richard Castaldo lied about having lunch with Rachel Scott. I think he just happened to be sitting near her having lunch and that they weren't having lunch together at all. I have absolutely no evidence of this...just none whatsoever.

My sister talked to Rachel in the Commons when lunch started, my sister was going off campus with another friend to grab prom pictures then lunch and invited Rachel to come but she said she was eating lunch with a new friend who needed to talk but she would catch up after school with her

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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 24, 2018 2:54 pm

patogen wrote:
QuestionMark wrote:
patogen wrote:
It is not and it will never be on the two only.

Wow, so there was a third shooter then?

Jokes aside, I have to ask why? Aren't people responsible for their own actions? Did anyone stick a gun to Eric and Dylan's heads, or the heads of their parents and families and tell them "go do it"? Because if the answer to that question is no, then blaming anyone but the two people who pulled the triggers is a distraction at best.

I didn't say or even suggest they weren't responsible for what they did. They're culprits.

Immediately contradicted by:
patogen wrote:
But it is not on them only

To me it implies a deference of responsibility. It is on them only. They were the only ones deliberately killing people. You can say other people let it get that point, caused the problem to get that out of hand, and you'd be right, but holding these same people up and saying that they're as responsible as the people who were pulling the trigger is a bridge too far for me.

QuestionMark wrote:
Yeah, people acted negligently, people didn't do the right thing, and their fuck-ups were part of what caused the killings to happen. But the only reason why their fuck-ups matter at all, was because of two teens who acted on their worst impulses.

See above. If POLICE acted properly, those two, or at least one of them ended in mental hospital instead of killing a dozen of people. POLICE failed. The system around them failed. Their parents failed.    

patogen wrote:
QuestionMark wrote:
patogen wrote:
it's also pricks like Mr. Manson who will swear he is getting scapegoated and victimized, but in fact, he is a hypocrite who will do just about anything to get attention and notoriety, which, come to nitty-gritty, is what E&D did, and then he will whine "there are people who do much worse things than play and sing!"

Like kill people?

Yeah, well, fuck you M&Ms. You posture like you do precisely to shock and create a conflict and stir up shit and have teenagers relating and spending their parents' money on your schlock -- at any cost -- because whatever they do inspired by you, you can easily downplay as their own deed.

"inspired"?

Eric and Dylan preferred NIN, KMFDM, and Rammstein over Manson. What did Manson "inspire" Eric and Dylan to do when they weren't even avid fans of his music?

I said "pricks like" him. I never even suggested he inspired them to do what they did.

Yeah, ya did. Or at least that's how I took it. What else am I really supposed to think when you say:
patogen wrote:
Yeah, well, fuck you M&Ms. You posture like you do precisely to shock and create a conflict and stir up shit and have teenagers relating and spending their parents' money on your schlock -- at any cost -- because whatever they do inspired by you, you can easily downplay as their own deed.

patogen wrote:
We can't just give culture a moral leeway and leave it out of the equation. We're all influenced by it. So were E&Dylan. Of course, most people are not impressionable / insane enough to see NBK and think "whoa, what a neat idea! I'm gonna kill some people too!"

But culture does help shape who we are and how we think. It does. So let's not bullshit ourselves.

Eric and Dylan, and what they carried out, were just another facet of our society.

If most people who absorb these kinds of material don't go on to act out violence in inspiration of it then IMO holding it responsible for much of anything is rather hollow.

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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 24, 2018 3:27 pm

QuestionMark wrote:
patogen wrote:
QuestionMark wrote:
patogen wrote:
It is not and it will never be on the two only.

Wow, so there was a third shooter then?

Jokes aside, I have to ask why? Aren't people responsible for their own actions? Did anyone stick a gun to Eric and Dylan's heads, or the heads of their parents and families and tell them "go do it"? Because if the answer to that question is no, then blaming anyone but the two people who pulled the triggers is a distraction at best.

I didn't say or even suggest they weren't responsible for what they did. They're culprits.

Immediately contradicted by:
patogen wrote:
But it is not on them only

So saying it is not on them only equals saying they're not responsible at all?

EDIT: It's not even a rhetorical question. You failed my IQ test and end up on my ignore. I'm impatient and I don't like talking to slow people. I have already been through this. You will never get it and I'll end up being an asshole. No need for that. Online, we have the luxury of cultivating our environment by simply putting idiots away. Since I realize everything we soak in ends up forming us, I fancy ignoring folks like you. Merry Christmas and fuck you.
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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 24, 2018 3:54 pm

milennialrebelette wrote:
SandraSmit19 wrote:
This one isn't so much an unpopular opinion as it is just a feeling and I don't know how relevant it is but... I think Richard Castaldo lied about having lunch with Rachel Scott. I think he just happened to be sitting near her having lunch and that they weren't having lunch together at all. I have absolutely no evidence of this...just none whatsoever.

My sister talked to Rachel in the Commons when lunch started, my sister was going off campus with another friend to grab prom pictures then lunch and invited Rachel to come but she said she was eating lunch with a new friend who needed to talk but she would catch up after school with her

Okay, I am officially wrong about Richard Castaldo Very Happy silent

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QuestionMark
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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 24, 2018 4:19 pm

patogen wrote:
QuestionMark wrote:
patogen wrote:
QuestionMark wrote:
patogen wrote:
It is not and it will never be on the two only.

Wow, so there was a third shooter then?

Jokes aside, I have to ask why? Aren't people responsible for their own actions? Did anyone stick a gun to Eric and Dylan's heads, or the heads of their parents and families and tell them "go do it"? Because if the answer to that question is no, then blaming anyone but the two people who pulled the triggers is a distraction at best.

I didn't say or even suggest they weren't responsible for what they did. They're culprits.

Immediately contradicted by:
patogen wrote:
But it is not on them only

So saying it is not on them only equals saying they're not responsible at all?

EDIT: It's not even a rhetorical question. You failed my IQ test and end up on my ignore. I'm impatient and I don't like talking to slow people. I have already been through this. You will never get it and I'll end up being an asshole. No need for that. Online, we have the luxury of cultivating our environment by simply putting idiots away. Since I realize everything we soak in ends up forming us, I fancy ignoring folks like you. Merry Christmas and fuck you.

Boy do I love the Christmas spirit. santa

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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 24, 2018 4:44 pm

patogen wrote:


EDIT: It's not even a rhetorical question. You failed my IQ test and end up on my ignore. I'm impatient and I don't like talking to slow people. I have already been through this. You will never get it and I'll end up being an asshole. No need for that. Online, we have the luxury of cultivating our environment by simply putting idiots away. Since I realize everything we soak in ends up forming us, I fancy ignoring folks like you. Merry Christmas and fuck you.

Such passion! Are you a romance novelist?
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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 24, 2018 4:58 pm

patogen wrote:
So saying it is not on them only equals saying they're not responsible at all?

EDIT: It's not even a rhetorical question. You failed my IQ test and end up on my ignore. I'm impatient and I don't like talking to slow people. I have already been through this. You will never get it and I'll end up being an asshole. No need for that. Online, we have the luxury of cultivating our environment by simply putting idiots away. Since I realize everything we soak in ends up forming us, I fancy ignoring folks like you. Merry Christmas and fuck you.



[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  It is fine to have debates and discussions etc. This is what the forum is for, but please keep things civil. Thank you.
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rayybayy444

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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 24, 2018 11:29 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
It’s really striking to think of what a short amount of time they were in the library Sad


I think it was comparable with the length of time of Parkland.

It feels longer since many survivors weren’t let out or rescued until nearly 4pm Sad

I agree everything happened so fast, yet the amount of damage done and the legacy it leaves behind is mind blowing!!

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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 25, 2018 12:58 am

rayybayy444 wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
It’s really striking to think of what a short amount of time they were in the library Sad


I think it was comparable with the length of time of Parkland.

It feels longer since many survivors weren’t let out or rescued until nearly 4pm Sad

I agree everything happened so fast, yet the amount of damage done and the legacy it leaves behind is mind blowing!!

Most shootings happen in a really short amount of time. Look at Sandy Hook.
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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 25, 2018 8:36 am

SandraSmit19 wrote:
milennialrebelette wrote:
SandraSmit19 wrote:
This one isn't so much an unpopular opinion as it is just a feeling and I don't know how relevant it is but... I think Richard Castaldo lied about having lunch with Rachel Scott. I think he just happened to be sitting near her having lunch and that they weren't having lunch together at all. I have absolutely no evidence of this...just none whatsoever.

My sister talked to Rachel in the Commons when lunch started, my sister was going off campus with another friend to grab prom pictures then lunch and invited Rachel to come but she said she was eating lunch with a new friend who needed to talk but she would catch up after school with her

Okay, I am officially wrong about Richard Castaldo Very Happy silent

Sorry! I totally can see why you thought that but I just wanted to give you an answer hope that's ok. Merry Christmas!
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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Dec 25, 2018 10:20 am

milennialrebelette wrote:
SandraSmit19 wrote:
milennialrebelette wrote:
SandraSmit19 wrote:
This one isn't so much an unpopular opinion as it is just a feeling and I don't know how relevant it is but... I think Richard Castaldo lied about having lunch with Rachel Scott. I think he just happened to be sitting near her having lunch and that they weren't having lunch together at all. I have absolutely no evidence of this...just none whatsoever.

My sister talked to Rachel in the Commons when lunch started, my sister was going off campus with another friend to grab prom pictures then lunch and invited Rachel to come but she said she was eating lunch with a new friend who needed to talk but she would catch up after school with her

Okay, I am officially wrong about Richard Castaldo Very Happy silent

Sorry! I totally can see why you thought that but I just wanted to give you an answer hope that's ok. Merry Christmas!

No problem. Truth be told I'd rather be proven wrong than find out my cynical outlook is justified Laughing And a Merry Christmas to you too! santa

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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 31, 2018 6:28 am

milennialrebelette wrote:
My sister talked to Rachel in the Commons when lunch started, my sister was going off campus with another friend to grab prom pictures then lunch and invited Rachel to come but she said she was eating lunch with a new friend who needed to talk but she would catch up after school with her
According to the movie 'I'm Not Ashamed' Rachel had asked to have lunch with Richard Castaldo because his parents were going through a divorce, much like her own parents had years beforehand, and she wanted to provide her own experience. I assume this was the reason.
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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 31, 2018 6:31 am

milennialrebelette wrote:
Sorry! I totally can see why you thought that but I just wanted to give you an answer hope that's ok. Merry Christmas!
Have an amazing Christmas! Thank you so much for your insight on this board. We are so grateful to have you here.
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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 31, 2018 8:55 am

I think if Dylan had backed out at the last minute, Eric still would of committed the attack.

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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 31, 2018 10:01 am

Tommy QTR wrote:
I think if Dylan had backed out at the last minute, Eric still would of committed the attack.

Very doubtful.
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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 31, 2018 1:08 pm

Juicy Jazzy wrote:

According to the movie 'I'm Not Ashamed' Rachel had asked to have lunch with Richard Castaldo because his parents were going through a divorce, much like her own parents had years beforehand, and she wanted to provide her own experience. I assume this was the reason.

This doesn't make sense to me. Richard's parents were already divorced. His dad's name is Rick Castaldo, his mom's name is Connie Michalik.
At the time of the shooting, Richard's mother was married to Craig Michalik. Richard lived with them and his brother lived with their dad.

Here's some articles that mention Craig.
The first is from 4 months after the massacre:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The next is a year later:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I don't know if they are still married but it probably wouldn't be difficult to find out.
[Edited to add: I did a quick search of Arapahoe County records (that's where they live) and I found no divorce records. There are also records to indicate that they still have a relationship, either personal or professional, as of 2016. For privacy reasons I won't elaborate.)
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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 31, 2018 3:45 pm

thelmar wrote:
Juicy Jazzy wrote:

According to the movie 'I'm Not Ashamed' Rachel had asked to have lunch with Richard Castaldo because his parents were going through a divorce, much like her own parents had years beforehand, and she wanted to provide her own experience. I assume this was the reason.

This doesn't make sense to me. Richard's parents were already divorced. His dad's name is Rick Castaldo, his mom's name is Connie Michalik.
At the time of the shooting, Richard's mother was married to Craig Michalik. Richard lived with them and his brother lived with their dad.

Here's some articles that mention Craig.
The first is from 4 months after the massacre:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The next is a year later:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I don't know if they are still married but it probably wouldn't be difficult to find out.
[Edited to add: I did a quick search of Arapahoe County records (that's where they live) and I found no divorce records. There are also records to indicate that they still have a relationship, either personal or professional, as of 2016. For privacy reasons I won't elaborate.)

Richard also said that E & D grabbed Rachel by the hair and asked her if she believed in God before shooting her point blank in the head.
That is where the whole Rachel myth was started, just like the scene in I'm not ashamed.
I'm assuming Richard was the one who told people that they were having a conversation about his parent's divorce.
Based on all of his fake claims that we know definitively didn't happen, I'd take anything he says with a grain of salt.

It's pretty wild that even though that whole exchange was proven false, Rachel's parents still put it in the movie knowingly lying to people.
I thought God fairing people didn't lie Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 31, 2018 4:19 pm

slippy123 wrote:
thelmar wrote:
Juicy Jazzy wrote:

According to the movie 'I'm Not Ashamed' Rachel had asked to have lunch with Richard Castaldo because his parents were going through a divorce, much like her own parents had years beforehand, and she wanted to provide her own experience. I assume this was the reason.

This doesn't make sense to me. Richard's parents were already divorced. His dad's name is Rick Castaldo, his mom's name is Connie Michalik.
At the time of the shooting, Richard's mother was married to Craig Michalik. Richard lived with them and his brother lived with their dad.

Here's some articles that mention Craig.
The first is from 4 months after the massacre:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The next is a year later:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I don't know if they are still married but it probably wouldn't be difficult to find out.
[Edited to add: I did a quick search of Arapahoe County records (that's where they live) and I found no divorce records. There are also records to indicate that they still have a relationship, either personal or professional, as of 2016. For privacy reasons I won't elaborate.)

Richard also said that E & D grabbed Rachel by the hair and asked her if she believed in God before shooting her point blank in the head.
That is where the whole Rachel myth was started, just like the scene in I'm not ashamed.
I'm assuming Richard was the one who told people that they were having a conversation about his parent's divorce.
Based on all of his fake claims that we know definitively didn't happen, I'd take anything he says with a grain of salt.

It's pretty wild that even though that whole exchange was proven false, Rachel's parents still put it in the movie knowingly lying to people.
I thought God fairing people didn't lie Laughing

Do we know why Richard started the whole Rachael thing?
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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 31, 2018 4:29 pm

My opinion is that the bullying explanation has always been exaggerated. Maybe they had some teasing, maybe they were called names and pushed around or targeted sometimes, but I don't call that bullying, I call that "high school".

I'm not saying that whatever experiences they had didn't obviously play a part, but their writings are, overall, less about revenge and more about disgust. Always talking about people being lesser than themselves, always expressing hatred for people who merely annoyed or expressed too much interest in something that they themselves didn't approve of. Maybe they were simply exasperated by the obnoxious behavior and perceived low standards of their fellow human beings. I was never bullied and I can easily relate to this myself.
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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 31, 2018 4:48 pm

I know People say that.

But when I hear the evidence from people who actually went there and knew them I can’t deny that it happened and Played a part

I mean up until junior year the bullying was really bad according to so many people and you can’t say that it effects everyone the same way. That’s why I’m so torn sometimes


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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 31, 2018 5:26 pm

Let's here to what Eric and Dylan themselves have to say about bullying:

Eric Harris wrote:
"Everyone is always making fun of me because how I look, and how fucking weak I am and shit. Well, I'll get you all back: Ultimate fucking revenge here. You people could have shown me more respect, treated me better, asked for my knowledge or guidance more, treated me more like a senior, and maybe I wouldn't have been as ready to tear you're fucking heads off."

Eric Harris wrote:
"I hate all you people for leaving me out of so many fun things. And no don't fucking say 'well that's your fault' because it isn't, you people had my phone number, and I asked and all, but no. No no no don't let the weird looking Eric kid come along. Ohh fucking noo.

Dylan Klebold wrote:
"This is for all the shit you've given us for the past four years!"

But I forgot, bullying wasn't a factor at all, in fact them being tormented is perfectly normal, it's called being in High School. They were both just evil goth psychopaths who were motivated by violent video games and easy access to guns.

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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 31, 2018 5:35 pm

Tommy QTR wrote:


But I forgot, bullying wasn't a factor at all

I can cite diary entries that go on for paragraphs about how much they hated people simply because they annoyed or were beneath them. Instead, it's much faster to just agree and say "yes, your quote right there was so TOTALLY what I actually said".
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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 31, 2018 5:44 pm

miketheratguy wrote:
Tommy QTR wrote:


But I forgot, bullying wasn't a factor at all

I can cite diary entries that go on for paragraphs about how much they hated people simply because they annoyed or were beneath them. Instead, it's much faster to just agree and say "yes, your quote right there was so TOTALLY what I actually said".
I'm not saying bullying was the only motive, obviously not. And my post wasn't against you specifically, but the rather the general attitude that some people here have that bullying wasn't a major factor when it clearly was, but I will agree that bullying wasn't the only motive behind their attack.

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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 31, 2018 7:00 pm

I know it’s hard to say because we can’t talk to them in person but after a long time of being bullied or feeling like you’re not connecting you can either start feeling inferior or superior. They took the latter

I think it was a small factor in a perfect storm But a factor

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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 31, 2018 7:53 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
I know it’s hard to say because we can’t talk to them in person but after a long time of being bullied or feeling like you’re not connecting  you can either start feeling inferior or superior. They took the latter

I think it was a small factor in a perfect storm But a factor

I agree. You can either turn it all inward and blame yourself or, for self preservation, try telling yourself that it's not you, it's them. The reason you aren't accepted is because "they" all have the problem, "they" are all inferior, "they" are just jealous of you.
I know they both wrote about how much better they were than other people but I don't believe that at all. Especially, Dylan. He wrote about being a god just as much as Eric did, but I don't think anyone would argue that Dylan hated everything about himself. You can't be better than everyone and the worst person on earth at the same time. I happen to believe that Eric's self-hatred was just as deep, but for different reasons.
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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 31, 2018 8:22 pm

thelmar wrote:

I know they both wrote about how much better they were than other people but I don't believe that at all. Especially, Dylan.

I personally absolutely believe it in Eric's case. I feel that he had self-esteem issues yet was also enraged by what he perceived to be mediocrity. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

Dylan is much more debatable.
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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Dec 31, 2018 11:53 pm

thelmar wrote:
This doesn't make sense to me. Richard's parents were already divorced. His dad's name is Rick Castaldo, his mom's name is Connie Michalik.
I guess its just more misinformation that was put into the movie. Thanks for your reply. I didnt know that.
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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 01, 2019 12:53 am

Juicy Jazzy wrote:

I guess its just more misinformation that was put into the movie. Thanks for your reply. I didnt know that.

Misinformation or "creative license". I'd guess the purpose of showing that Rachel was counseling someone with a problem rather than just having lunch with a friend was to keep hammering home her Christian goodness. Don't get me wrong, I think Rachel was probably a great person, but at this point they've portrayed her as not even human. Even her "faults" are somehow made into purities in the books and films. It's a little sad to me.
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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 01, 2019 3:06 pm

thelmar wrote:
Juicy Jazzy wrote:

I guess its just more misinformation that was put into the movie. Thanks for your reply. I didnt know that.

Misinformation or "creative license". I'd guess the purpose of showing that Rachel was counseling someone with a problem rather than just having lunch with a friend was to keep hammering home her Christian goodness. Don't get me wrong, I think Rachel was probably a great person, but at this point they've portrayed her as not even human. Even her "faults" are somehow made into purities in the books and films. It's a little sad to me.

I think it's very sad that people seem ton continue to profit off this poor girl's death.
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PostSubject: Re: Unpopular opinions    Unpopular opinions  - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Jan 01, 2019 4:16 pm

I think it is sad that they feel the need to make her out to be so saintly rather than just mourn her for who she really was.

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