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 If Eric & Dylan's parents knew ABSOLUTELY ZERO about their planned massacre...

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tragedy79
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rik75




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PostSubject: If Eric & Dylan's parents knew ABSOLUTELY ZERO about their planned massacre...   If Eric & Dylan's parents knew ABSOLUTELY ZERO about their planned massacre... Icon_minitimeThu Nov 07, 2013 9:02 am

If E & D's parents knew NOTHING what so ever about their own children's sick 12 month plan ,why did Eric's father call the cops and tell them that he thinks HIS OWN SON is involved? If i had his (pre 4/20/99) attitude i wouldn't have called the cops! Why would i do that? My son have nothing to do with this! My son is no killer and no bomber! My son is gentle and kind. He likes fireworks ,but how many teenagers don't? How many parent's would have made the same call to the cops? Dylan's father has a phone chat with Nathan Dyekman ( between 11:30am -12:00pm 4/20/99 ) Mr Klebold drops the phone and rushes to see if Dylan's trench coat is in the house ,its not and Mr Klebold becomes really upset. So because the coat is not at home ,it must mean that Dylan is wearing it and talking part in a school massacre. If he had absolutely no idea of his own son's mental state and murderous plans ,why listen to Nathen? Why look for Dylans coat? WHY SUSPECT FOR 1 SECOND that his OWN SON IS INVOLVED?? His own son his is also gentle and kind and so shy.. What made these father's seriously suspect that their own son's were involved ? They must have known something about their boys " dark side-bad side ". Just say the massacre never happened that day or ever and Mr Klebold & Mr Harris were asked this question : " just say 2 guys wearing trench coats blow the school up and shoot a lot of kids ,do you think Eric & Dylan are capable of doing that sort of thing?" How would they answer? The hypothetical and the real events are the thing!! "No Dylan wouldn't do that!" What if his coat wasn't at home? "Well yeah in that case ,yes he must have done it !" Idea
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PostSubject: Re: If Eric & Dylan's parents knew ABSOLUTELY ZERO about their planned massacre...   If Eric & Dylan's parents knew ABSOLUTELY ZERO about their planned massacre... Icon_minitimeThu Nov 07, 2013 11:07 am

Because Nate told Dylan's father that the students shooting up the school were members of the trench coat mafia; that they were WEARING their trench coats. Nate also said everyone else EXCEPT Dylan and Eric had been accounted for. So...wouldn't that explain why Dylan and Eric were the only 2 left who could be doing it?

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PostSubject: Re: If Eric & Dylan's parents knew ABSOLUTELY ZERO about their planned massacre...   If Eric & Dylan's parents knew ABSOLUTELY ZERO about their planned massacre... Icon_minitimeFri Nov 08, 2013 1:53 am

Jenn wrote:
Because Nate told Dylan's father that the students shooting up the school were members of the trench coat mafia; that they were WEARING their trench coats. Nate also said everyone else EXCEPT Dylan and Eric had been accounted for. So...wouldn't that explain why Dylan and Eric were the only 2 left who could be doing it?
Hi Jenn, regarding Mr Klebold ,here is a guy who believes ( 100%) that his son Dylan is gentle and kind ,shy and sweet. Why did he presume Dylan was involved? As you said ,Dylan was unaccounted for & he left home with his trench coat. Why didn't Mr Klebold presume that Dylan ( his wonderful & gentle son ) may have been a victim ,may have been shot or injured and been unable to escape from the school. Jenn ,i don't understand the mindset of a father who believes his son is a wonderful and kind kid ,etc and then later he completely does a " turn around " and believes his son is a spree killer (simply because the shooters are in the TCM & so is his son ) Mr Harris called the cops and told them that he thinks his son Eric is involved. Why? because Eric was also in the TCM and wore a trench coat? I am not saying that the parents knew or suspected anything regarding the 12 month planning. I just cannot understand how Eric's father could also believe that his son is involved. Just because he wore a trench coat & was a member of the TCM and was also unaccounted for that day? There must have been something else that caused them to suspect their son's involvement. They must have had a deeper suspicious reasoning and that must have existed well before 4/20/99. If my son was the only boy who wore a trench coat ,i still wouldn't believe he was involved. I would think that the shooter may have shot him and then put on the coat & then continued with the massacre. IMO That is how parents would react if they 100% believed that their sons were not involved. Sorry Jenn!  All this crap is giving me a headache !!!scratch
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If Eric & Dylan's parents knew ABSOLUTELY ZERO about their planned massacre... Empty
PostSubject: Re: If Eric & Dylan's parents knew ABSOLUTELY ZERO about their planned massacre...   If Eric & Dylan's parents knew ABSOLUTELY ZERO about their planned massacre... Icon_minitimeFri Nov 08, 2013 5:36 am

Jenn wrote:
Because Nate told Dylan's father that the students shooting up the school were members of the trench coat mafia; that they were WEARING their trench coats. Nate also said everyone else EXCEPT Dylan and Eric had been accounted for. So...wouldn't that explain why Dylan and Eric were the only 2 left who could be doing it?
rik75 wrote:
Hi Jenn, regarding Mr Klebold ,here is a guy who believes ( 100%) that his son Dylan is gentle and kind ,shy and sweet. Why did he presume Dylan was involved? As you said ,Dylan was unaccounted for & he left home with his trench coat. Why didn't Mr Klebold presume that Dylan ( his wonderful & gentle son ) may have been a victim ,may have been shot or injured and been unable to escape from the school. Jenn ,i don't understand the mindset of a father who believes his son is a wonderful and kind kid ,etc and then later he completely does a " turn around " and believes his son is a spree killer (simply because the shooters are in the TCM & so is his son ) Mr Harris called the cops and told them that he thinks his son Eric is involved. Why? because Eric was also in the TCM and wore a trench coat? I am not saying that the parents knew or suspected anything regarding the 12 month planning. I just cannot understand how Eric's father could also believe that his son is involved. Just because he wore a trench coat & was a member of the TCM and was also unaccounted for that day? There must have been something else that caused them to suspect their son's involvement. They must have had a deeper suspicious reasoning and that must have existed well before 4/20/99. If my son was the only boy who wore a trench coat ,i still wouldn't believe he was involved. I would think that the shooter may have shot him and then put on the coat & then continued with the massacre. IMO That is how parents would react if they 100% believed that their sons were not involved. Sorry Jenn!  All this crap is giving me a headache !!!scratch
Given that Eric and Dylan were busted for stealing equipment out of a van, a crime of which their parents connected no dots that their own sons would ever be responsible for engaging in such a felony, perhaps their parents had a bit of flash back about the van incident when Columbine was occurring and given that their sons wore their trench coats to school that day,  things began to add up in a nefarious manner that the parents didn't wish to entertain, with every breath of their being, but at that point, had no choice but to.
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PostSubject: Re: If Eric & Dylan's parents knew ABSOLUTELY ZERO about their planned massacre...   If Eric & Dylan's parents knew ABSOLUTELY ZERO about their planned massacre... Icon_minitimeFri Nov 08, 2013 6:29 am

rik75 wrote:
If E & D's parents knew NOTHING what so ever about their own children's sick 12 month plan ,why did Eric's father call the cops and tell them that he thinks HIS OWN SON is involved? If i had his (pre 4/20/99) attitude i wouldn't have called the cops! Why would i do that? My son have nothing to do with this! My son is no killer and no bomber! My son is gentle and kind. He likes fireworks ,but how many teenagers don't? How many parent's would have made the same call to the cops?
I think its important to realize how much evidence Eric left behind in his house in plain sight after he had left that morning. I don't have all my notes in front of my right now so I can't go into too much detail here. But Eric left a sawed-off shotgun barrel on the bookshelf above his desk, an air rifle with a sawed- off barrel hanging from a sling on the bookshelf, unfired shotgun ammunition on his bed etc pg(10227). As i mentioned i don't have these notes in front of me at the moment but Eric also left other evidence scattered around his home, including a handwritten itinerary detailing plans for the days assault on the kitchen table pg(10244). I can't answer the question why Mr Harris called the police but I certainly don't think he called the police based on the idea that he may have know something about the plan. The evidence Eric left behind in his home is pretty incriminating. I'm not saying Mr Harris called the police purely based on what he found in his home that morning but i think this could be a huge contributing factor. I really don't think the phone call proves that Mr Harris knew something about what was going to happen, however I think after the news reports, items left in his home and Eric's previous behavior he did have to face the harsh reality that Eric may be involved.
It is interesting to point out while on this topic that at 13:42:59 - 13:44:26 a male had made a 911 call and said he had possible information that his daughter could be involved pg(15927) So obviously Mr Harris was not the only parent suspecting his child could be involved in the shooting.  

On a side note Mr Harris called in at 13:04:58 - 13:05:52 on 4/20 so the entire call lasted just over one minute. I don't know how long Mr Harris was home that morning before he made the call or how long he had known about the shooting before he decided to call in.
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PostSubject: Re: If Eric & Dylan's parents knew ABSOLUTELY ZERO about their planned massacre...   If Eric & Dylan's parents knew ABSOLUTELY ZERO about their planned massacre... Icon_minitimeFri Nov 08, 2013 12:19 pm

He got to know of a shooting in his son's school + there are weapons-related stuff and plans left in sight in the house the very same morning.. I think at this point it's the obvious thing to think, no matter how much good you think of your son, it would have been to much of a massive coincidence and maybe the worry contributed too.
Anyway I see the phone call as a search for more info more than an accusation thowards Eric, like he was hoping that during the call someone would have told him that they found the shooters and his son isn't with them/something that would have meant he wasn't really involved and that was just his paranoia.

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PostSubject: Re: If Eric & Dylan's parents knew ABSOLUTELY ZERO about their planned massacre...   If Eric & Dylan's parents knew ABSOLUTELY ZERO about their planned massacre... Icon_minitimeSat Nov 09, 2013 2:00 am

We don't know what was on the "Nixon tape", Eric left on the kitchen table. Maybe a confession or something like that.

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PostSubject: Re: If Eric & Dylan's parents knew ABSOLUTELY ZERO about their planned massacre...   If Eric & Dylan's parents knew ABSOLUTELY ZERO about their planned massacre... Icon_minitimeSat Nov 09, 2013 9:49 am

They may have NOT known what those kids were planing but they damn sure know what their nutty sons are capable of doing. Those people are not stupid
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I've wondered the same thing myself, but at the same time I think it may have been largely an issue of hindsight. I think it's reasonable for Mr. Klebold to think of Dylan as gentle and kind while also realizing that his son most likely did show signs of severe depression and anger. I know the Klebolds said after the shooting that they had no idea how tortured he was, but I think when they looked back at the little nuances they might have seen some signs of what was lurking inside.

I wonder if Dylan's parents had a bad feeling about Eric. Brooks Brown was a childhood friend of Dylan's and Mrs. Brooks had seen Eric lash out before, so I think it could be possible that she relayed some of that information to Mrs. Klebold. The Klebolds knew Eric and Dylan were friends, but apparently never saw much of him, so maybe they were suspicious after they added up all the circumstances on 4/20. With Nate's call, the missing coat, the van incident, and Dylan's frequent hanging out with a friend they didn't know much about aside from the fact that they got in trouble together (and perhaps that Eric had threatened Brooks), I think it's pretty reasonable for Dylan's parents to have realized that maybe their son was actually dealing with more issues besides normal teenage angst.
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queenfarooq wrote:
rik75 wrote:
If E & D's parents knew NOTHING what so ever about their own children's sick 12 month plan ,why did Eric's father call the cops and tell them that he thinks HIS OWN SON is involved?
I think its important to realize how much evidence Eric left behind in his house in plain sight after he had left that morning.
In addition to this, Eric drew a picture of the school (labelled "CHS") on his wall with a bomb (labelled "BOMB") and a lit fuse attached to the school.

The tape ends with a brief glimpse of a sign on the wall of Eric's bedroom, someone's arm partially blocking it from sight. It's the letters: CHS along with a drawing of a bomb with a lit fuse and, in bold black letters, the word "clue".


As for Mr. Klebold, he was extremely alarmed because Nate called him.  However, in the recent Andrew Solomon book, Sue Klebold says that she and Tom had a hard time believing Dylan was involved, thought they would find that he had gotten out safely, and would then be extremely embarrassed to have ever suspected him.

I think Nate and Brooks knew Eric and Dylan better than the parents and more readily suspected them.
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PostSubject: Re: If Eric & Dylan's parents knew ABSOLUTELY ZERO about their planned massacre...   If Eric & Dylan's parents knew ABSOLUTELY ZERO about their planned massacre... Icon_minitimeTue Nov 12, 2013 9:38 am

fatlittleparasite wrote:
I wonder if Dylan's parents had a bad feeling about Eric. Brooks Brown was a childhood friend of Dylan's and Mrs. Brooks had seen Eric lash out before, so I think it could be possible that she relayed some of that information to Mrs. Klebold. The Klebolds knew Eric and Dylan were friends, but apparently never saw much of him, so maybe they were suspicious after they added up all the circumstances on 4/20. With Nate's call, the missing coat, the van incident, and Dylan's frequent hanging out with a friend they didn't know much about aside from the fact that they got in trouble together (and perhaps that Eric had threatened Brooks), I think it's pretty reasonable for Dylan's parents to have realized that maybe their son was actually dealing with more issues besides normal teenage angst.
I don't believe (and somebody jump in to correct me if I'm wrong) that Judy Brown ever expressed her concerns about Eric to the Klebold family. If she had, it would seem that they would take steps to ensure that Dylan wasn't seeing so much of Eric, but that didn't occur. I don't know Judy Brown and obviously never knew Eric Harris, but her stories to me seem very exaggerated. Not to mention, if I felt that my son's life or safety was in danger from some kid, I would make sure that his other friends were aware and would take steps to keep him safe. Even if her stories are 100% accurate, Eric seemed harmless. From the sound of things, sweet polite little Eric charmed every adult in a 500 mile radius other than Judy Brown. I'm sure that there was nothing in his behavior around the Klebolds to alarm them.

For the Harrises, clues were everywhere. One look around the house would have given away Eric's plan. I'm sure that's why Mr. Harris called. For the Klebolds, I think we're underestimating the effect of Nate's phone call. If one of my child's best friends called me, panicking, told me what was going on and said that they thought my child was involved, I would take that to heart. A teenager's friends always knows said teenager better than the parents. Nate clearly knew or thought he knew something important if he took initiative to call Tom Klebold - that's a pretty ballsy move. He wouldn't have done so just because Dylan was unaccounted for. We don't actually know what he said to Mr. Klebold, but whatever it was got him moving.

My thoughts...
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PostSubject: Re: If Eric & Dylan's parents knew ABSOLUTELY ZERO about their planned massacre...   If Eric & Dylan's parents knew ABSOLUTELY ZERO about their planned massacre... Icon_minitimeTue Nov 12, 2013 10:31 am

Wideawake wrote:
fatlittleparasite wrote:
I wonder if Dylan's parents had a bad feeling about Eric. Brooks Brown was a childhood friend of Dylan's and Mrs. Brooks had seen Eric lash out before, so I think it could be possible that she relayed some of that information to Mrs. Klebold. The Klebolds knew Eric and Dylan were friends, but apparently never saw much of him, so maybe they were suspicious after they added up all the circumstances on 4/20. With Nate's call, the missing coat, the van incident, and Dylan's frequent hanging out with a friend they didn't know much about aside from the fact that they got in trouble together (and perhaps that Eric had threatened Brooks), I think it's pretty reasonable for Dylan's parents to have realized that maybe their son was actually dealing with more issues besides normal teenage angst.
I don't believe (and somebody jump in to correct me if I'm wrong) that Judy Brown ever expressed her concerns about Eric to the Klebold family. If she had, it would seem that they would take steps to ensure that Dylan wasn't seeing so much of Eric, but that didn't occur. I don't know Judy Brown and obviously never knew Eric Harris, but her stories to me seem very exaggerated. Not to mention, if I felt that my son's life or safety was in danger from some kid, I would make sure that his other friends were aware and would take steps to keep him safe. Even if her stories are 100% accurate, Eric seemed harmless. From the sound of things, sweet polite little Eric charmed every adult in a 500 mile radius other than Judy Brown. I'm sure that there was nothing in his behavior around the Klebolds to alarm them.

For the Harrises, clues were everywhere. One look around the house would have given away Eric's plan. I'm sure that's why Mr. Harris called. For the Klebolds, I think we're underestimating the effect of Nate's phone call. If one of my child's best friends called me, panicking, told me what was going on and said that they thought my child was involved, I would take that to heart. A teenager's friends always knows said teenager better than the parents. Nate clearly knew or thought he knew something important if he took initiative to call Tom Klebold - that's a pretty ballsy move. He wouldn't have done so just because Dylan was unaccounted for. We don't actually know what he said to Mr. Klebold, but whatever it was got him moving.

My thoughts...
I'm not sure that any exchange regarding Eric ever happened between the Browns and the Klebolds, I was just entertaining it as a possibility. If it did happen, though, I'm sure the Klebolds would have been more concerned about Dylan being friends with them, like you said. On one hand, Judy Brown seems like the kind of woman who would make it known if she had warned the Klebolds about Eric. On the other hand, though, perhaps if it did happen she may have been worried about tarnishing the Klebolds' reputation by admitting that they had been warned and still didn't keep Dylan away from Eric. We may have opened up a whole new discussion topic! Razz

Also, I think you nailed it about how a teenager's friends know his/her character better than the parents. Mr. Klebold, despite his not knowing that Dylan was helping to plan Columbine, was probably not a naive man in all respects and likely realized the same thing when Nate called.
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PostSubject: Re: If Eric & Dylan's parents knew ABSOLUTELY ZERO about their planned massacre...   If Eric & Dylan's parents knew ABSOLUTELY ZERO about their planned massacre... Icon_minitimeTue Nov 12, 2013 1:43 pm

lasttrain wrote:
queenfarooq wrote:
rik75 wrote:
If E & D's parents knew NOTHING what so ever about their own children's sick 12 month plan ,why did Eric's father call the cops and tell them that he thinks HIS OWN SON is involved?
I think its important to realize how much evidence Eric left behind in his house in plain sight after he had left that morning.
In addition to this, Eric drew a picture of the school (labelled "CHS") on his wall with a bomb (labelled "BOMB") and a lit fuse attached to the school.

The tape ends with a brief glimpse of a sign on the wall of Eric's bedroom, someone's arm partially blocking it from sight. It's the letters: CHS along with a drawing of a bomb with a lit fuse and, in bold black letters, the word "clue".
I wish we knew more about what the Harris family actually found / saw in their home that morning prior to Wayne calling 911.

fatlittleparasite wrote:

I'm not sure that any exchange regarding Eric ever happened between the Browns and the Klebolds, I was just entertaining it as a possibility. If it did happen, though, I'm sure the Klebolds would have been more concerned about Dylan being friends with them, like you said. On one hand, Judy Brown seems like the kind of woman who would make it known if she had warned the Klebolds about Eric. On the other hand, though, perhaps if it did happen she may have been worried about tarnishing the Klebolds' reputation by admitting that they had been warned and still didn't keep Dylan away from Eric. We may have opened up a whole new discussion topic! Razz
I do find the did the Browns's warn the Klebold's topic pretty interesting:
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PostSubject: Re: If Eric & Dylan's parents knew ABSOLUTELY ZERO about their planned massacre...   If Eric & Dylan's parents knew ABSOLUTELY ZERO about their planned massacre... Icon_minitimeWed Nov 13, 2013 4:17 pm

Thanks, queenfarooq! I didn't even know that existed. I'm excited to dig through it Smile
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