Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.
Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum

A place to discuss the Columbine High School Massacre along with other school shootings and crimes.
Anyone interested in researching, learning, discussing and debating with us, please come join our community!
 
HomeHome  PortalPortal  CalendarCalendar  Latest imagesLatest images  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  MemberlistMemberlist  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  

 

 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video

Go down 
+8
Screamingophelia
rae21
bradt93
303
thelmar
QuestionMark
slippy123
Lizpuff
12 posters
AuthorMessage
slippy123

slippy123


Posts : 879
Contribution Points : 105163
Forum Reputation : 1235
Join date : 2015-08-25

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeWed Dec 05, 2018 4:19 pm

The video was released on the 19th anniversary, but I just saw it for the first time myself.
Rumor has it that Evan was one of the people that "bullied" Eric and Dylan, although he claims to have been "good" to them.
He was the first person shot at in the library part of the massacre, but was only hit with debris.
In the end Eric & Dylan let him live after calling him a "fat fuck", all the while knowing he was a jock.
Maybe there was some truth to him not being one of the bullies. In interviews following the shooting, he has always played the "innocent bystander" card.
What do you guys think?

Back to top Go down
Lizpuff

Lizpuff


Posts : 2677
Contribution Points : 95924
Forum Reputation : 1190
Join date : 2016-03-02
Age : 36

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeWed Dec 05, 2018 4:28 pm

I thought Evan admitted to bullying both of them pretty badly. Then he recanted. I don't trust him. Personally I have seen other interviews of him in 1999 and he seemed like an ass. Maybe he has changed now but I doubt he was ever good to them

And this "testimony" was not what he reported in 99. If he did say that, he didn't tell anyone that at the time.

I am not surprised he would believe that arming teachers is a good way to go about this. I think it is asinine

_________________
Hold me now I need to feel complete
Like I matter to the one I need
Back to top Go down
slippy123

slippy123


Posts : 879
Contribution Points : 105163
Forum Reputation : 1235
Join date : 2015-08-25

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeWed Dec 05, 2018 4:36 pm

Lizpuff wrote:
I thought Evan admitted to bullying both of them pretty badly.  Then he recanted.  I don't trust him.  Personally I have seen other interviews of him in 1999 and he seemed like an ass.  Maybe he has changed now but I doubt he was ever good to them

And this "testimony" was not what he reported in 99.  If he did say that, he didn't tell anyone that at the time.

I am not surprised he would believe that arming teachers is a good way to go about this.  I think it is asinine

It seems that he has definitely changed for the better, but I too have heard he was an asshole and a bully back in his Columbine days.
A few of his interviews rubbed me the wrong way also.
If he did indeed bully E &D, he is very lucky to be alive.


Last edited by slippy123 on Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
QuestionMark
Top 10 Contributor
QuestionMark


Posts : 4349
Contribution Points : 120128
Forum Reputation : 3191
Join date : 2017-09-04

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeWed Dec 05, 2018 4:57 pm

Lizpuff wrote:
I thought Evan admitted to bullying both of them pretty badly.  Then he recanted.

Well IIRC he also said Eric and Dylan wore demon horns on their heads, painted their fingernails black, and were gay lovers, so he's either confused, lying about having picked on them, or lying about what kind of people they were (if the latter is the case he might have been doing it on purpose to piss on their "legacy").

_________________
"My guns are the only things that haven't stabbed me in the back."
-Kip Kinkel
Back to top Go down
thelmar

thelmar


Posts : 760
Contribution Points : 82507
Forum Reputation : 3068
Join date : 2018-07-15

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeWed Dec 05, 2018 5:26 pm

This is what Evan Todd had to say in The Columbine Tapes Time Magazine article:
Maybe they saw the kids who flicked the ketchup packets or tossed the bottles at the trench-coat kids in the cafeteria. But things never got out of hand, they say. Evan Todd, the 255-lb. defensive lineman who was wounded in the library, describes the climate this way: "Columbine is a clean, good place except for those rejects," Todd says of Klebold and Harris and their friends. "Most kids didn't want them there. They were into witchcraft. They were into voodoo dolls. Sure, we teased them. But what do you expect with kids who come to school with weird hairdos and horns on their hats? It's not just jocks; the whole school's disgusted with them. They're a bunch of homos, grabbing each other's private parts. If you want to get rid of someone, usually you tease 'em. So the whole school would call them homos, and when they did something sick, we'd tell them, 'You're sick and that's wrong.'"

He doesn't come right out and admit that he bullied Eric and Dylan or members of the TCM but he certainly appears to condone any bullying they received.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeWed Dec 05, 2018 11:46 pm

thelmar wrote:
This is what Evan Todd had to say in The Columbine Tapes Time Magazine article:
Maybe they saw the kids who flicked the ketchup packets or tossed the bottles at the trench-coat kids in the cafeteria. But things never got out of hand, they say. Evan Todd, the 255-lb. defensive lineman who was wounded in the library, describes the climate this way: "Columbine is a clean, good place except for those rejects," Todd says of Klebold and Harris and their friends. "Most kids didn't want them there. They were into witchcraft. They were into voodoo dolls. Sure, we teased them. But what do you expect with kids who come to school with weird hairdos and horns on their hats? It's not just jocks; the whole school's disgusted with them. They're a bunch of homos, grabbing each other's private parts. If you want to get rid of someone, usually you tease 'em. So the whole school would call them homos, and when they did something sick, we'd tell them, 'You're sick and that's wrong.'"

He doesn't come right out and admit that he bullied Eric and Dylan or members of the TCM but he certainly appears to condone any bullying they received.

"Columbine is a clean, good place except for those rejects."

"Except for those rejects"

"If you want to get rid of someone, usually you tease 'em."

"You tease 'em."

There's your answer.

Honestly, there's so much more about this statement, but I am too lazy to pick apart every single piece. Certainly a hateful sounding statement. He sure seems to have condoned it, if nothing else.
Back to top Go down
303




Posts : 45
Contribution Points : 63070
Forum Reputation : 25
Join date : 2017-06-25

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeSat Dec 22, 2018 4:15 pm

as their rampage was aganst jocks and ohter people they were pissed off, i don't understand why they would spare especially evan todd and killed all those other innocents. maybe evan never mocked them in personal, so the didn't recongniced him as a jock. otherwise it makes no sense what eric and dylan did (because their rampage was expecially against jocks). they killed innocent people and left out the only jock they get directly in front of their guns that days?
Back to top Go down
QuestionMark
Top 10 Contributor
QuestionMark


Posts : 4349
Contribution Points : 120128
Forum Reputation : 3191
Join date : 2017-09-04

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeSat Dec 22, 2018 4:24 pm

303 wrote:
as their rampage was aganst jocks and ohter people they were pissed off, i don't understand why they would spare especially evan todd and killed all those other innocents. maybe evan never mocked them in personal, so the didn't recongniced him as a jock. otherwise it makes no sense what eric and dylan did (because their rampage was expecially against jocks). they killed innocent people and left out the only jock they get directly in front of their guns that days?

Because it wasn't a rampage directed against jocks; recall that their original plan was to blow up the cafeteria and kill several hundred people, then follow it up with a shooting spree, then cap it off with two more bombs timed to kill first responders, press, parents, and survivors. That doesn't reek of targeting anyone in particular to me.

_________________
"My guns are the only things that haven't stabbed me in the back."
-Kip Kinkel
Back to top Go down
slippy123

slippy123


Posts : 879
Contribution Points : 105163
Forum Reputation : 1235
Join date : 2015-08-25

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeSat Dec 22, 2018 6:04 pm

QuestionMark wrote:
303 wrote:
as their rampage was aganst jocks and ohter people they were pissed off, i don't understand why they would spare especially evan todd and killed all those other innocents. maybe evan never mocked them in personal, so the didn't recongniced him as a jock. otherwise it makes no sense what eric and dylan did (because their rampage was expecially against jocks). they killed innocent people and left out the only jock they get directly in front of their guns that days?

Because it wasn't a rampage directed against jocks; recall that their original plan was to blow up the cafeteria and kill several hundred people, then follow it up with a shooting spree, then cap it off with two more bombs timed to kill first responders, press, parents, and survivors. That doesn't reek of targeting anyone in particular to me.

Facts. Although they had great disdain for the jocks in general, in the end they wanted to kill whomever they could, and if they could get some "frags" on some jocks, well that would be a bonus.
Think about it, they could of started the massacre in the gym or weight room, where a good amount of jocks would of been, yet they started on the opposite side of the school and never even ventured into the gym or weight room areas.

They chose the library where most of the more studious kids were at.
I believe they let Evan live either because the adrenaline of killing wore off as they didn't kill anyone after leaving the library, or simply because they wanted to flex their, "god complex".
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeSat Dec 22, 2018 7:30 pm

slippy123 wrote:
QuestionMark wrote:
303 wrote:
as their rampage was aganst jocks and ohter people they were pissed off, i don't understand why they would spare especially evan todd and killed all those other innocents. maybe evan never mocked them in personal, so the didn't recongniced him as a jock. otherwise it makes no sense what eric and dylan did (because their rampage was expecially against jocks). they killed innocent people and left out the only jock they get directly in front of their guns that days?

Because it wasn't a rampage directed against jocks; recall that their original plan was to blow up the cafeteria and kill several hundred people, then follow it up with a shooting spree, then cap it off with two more bombs timed to kill first responders, press, parents, and survivors. That doesn't reek of targeting anyone in particular to me.

Facts. Although they had great disdain for the jocks in general, in the end they wanted to kill whomever they could, and if they could get some "frags" on some jocks, well that would be a bonus.
Think about it, they could of started the massacre in the gym or weight room, where a good amount of jocks would of been, yet they started on the opposite side of the school and never even ventured into the gym or weight room areas.

They chose the library where most of the more studious kids were at.
I believe they let Evan live either because the adrenaline of killing wore off as they didn't kill anyone after leaving the library, or simply because they wanted to flex their, "god complex".
Exactly. The rampage was in no way ever aimed at jocks. It wasn't aimed at Christians either. It wasn't aimed at any one in particular. The plan was aimed at the entire school.

Evan Todd is one of the last people they interacted with in the library, right before they went on their little "stroll". I've expressed before that I believe their stroll happened because they realized their rampage was nothing like Doom. They had no more adrenaline. It was no longer fun and exciting. Shooting people was not fun anymore. That's why they didn't kill Evan Todd. That's why they shot at some of the bombs afterwards. It was the shooting people part that wore off and was no longer fun. Bombing might be, but when that didn't work they just decided to end it.
Back to top Go down
slippy123

slippy123


Posts : 879
Contribution Points : 105163
Forum Reputation : 1235
Join date : 2015-08-25

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeSat Dec 22, 2018 7:50 pm

hvernon wrote:
slippy123 wrote:
QuestionMark wrote:
303 wrote:
as their rampage was aganst jocks and ohter people they were pissed off, i don't understand why they would spare especially evan todd and killed all those other innocents. maybe evan never mocked them in personal, so the didn't recongniced him as a jock. otherwise it makes no sense what eric and dylan did (because their rampage was expecially against jocks). they killed innocent people and left out the only jock they get directly in front of their guns that days?

Because it wasn't a rampage directed against jocks; recall that their original plan was to blow up the cafeteria and kill several hundred people, then follow it up with a shooting spree, then cap it off with two more bombs timed to kill first responders, press, parents, and survivors. That doesn't reek of targeting anyone in particular to me.

Facts. Although they had great disdain for the jocks in general, in the end they wanted to kill whomever they could, and if they could get some "frags" on some jocks, well that would be a bonus.
Think about it, they could of started the massacre in the gym or weight room, where a good amount of jocks would of been, yet they started on the opposite side of the school and never even ventured into the gym or weight room areas.

They chose the library where most of the more studious kids were at.
I believe they let Evan live either because the adrenaline of killing wore off as they didn't kill anyone after leaving the library, or simply because they wanted to flex their, "god complex".
Exactly. The rampage was in no way ever aimed at jocks. It wasn't aimed at Christians either. It wasn't aimed at any one in particular. The plan was aimed at the entire school.

Evan Todd is one of the last people they interacted with in the library, right before they went on their little "stroll". I've expressed before that I believe their stroll happened because they realized their rampage was nothing like Doom. They had no more adrenaline. It was no longer fun and exciting. Shooting people was not fun anymore. That's why they didn't kill Evan Todd. That's why they shot at some of the bombs afterwards. It was the shooting people part that wore off and was no longer fun. Bombing might be, but when that didn't work they just decided to end it.

Correct.
E & D hated jocks, no questions about that, but their aim was to kill as many people of all race color and creed as they could.
They even expected some of their friends to die as collateral damage and had no care in doing so. "Nate, Chris, if you live you can keep my stuff".

People think because they walked into the library and told all the "white hats" to stand up, that they were specifically after jocks, which is false.
They just wanted to kill them first, because they gave them the most shit.
It's not like if any of the jocks stood up E & D were going to just kill them and then stroll out of there letting everyone else live.
They were out to kill everyone.

I agree that after the initial adrenaline wore off, their morale fell drastically.
The bombs failed, they killed 1% of the amount they were going for, didn't kill anyone on their "hitlist" that they really wanted to kill, and the cops didn't rush the school to give them a final adrenaline pumping shootout.

Nothing went as planned, and I believe they killed themselves very disappointed that their big judgement day, was a bust.
Back to top Go down
bradt93




Posts : 719
Contribution Points : 90256
Forum Reputation : 255
Join date : 2016-12-21
Location : United States

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeSat Dec 22, 2018 10:12 pm

I think they finally wanted control and power over the jocks and that's why they let Todd live. Well, they finally "owned" the school that day like how jocks think on a daily basis.

_________________
bt
Back to top Go down
rae21




Posts : 26
Contribution Points : 48946
Forum Reputation : 0
Join date : 2019-01-04

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeSun Jan 13, 2019 10:08 pm

Why would they let someone younger than them bully them around. And he's still very fat btw.
Back to top Go down
Lizpuff

Lizpuff


Posts : 2677
Contribution Points : 95924
Forum Reputation : 1190
Join date : 2016-03-02
Age : 36

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeMon Jan 14, 2019 8:34 am

rae21 wrote:
Why would they let someone younger than them bully them around. And he's still very fat btw.

It was a common occurrence. Eric talked before about younger kids picking on him or cutting in front of him in the lunch line. I believe the kid who was calling him names at his car was younger too.

_________________
Hold me now I need to feel complete
Like I matter to the one I need
Back to top Go down
Screamingophelia
Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Screamingophelia


Posts : 6422
Contribution Points : 193456
Forum Reputation : 1317
Join date : 2017-08-25
Age : 42

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeMon Jan 14, 2019 9:18 am

Lizpuff wrote:
rae21 wrote:
Why would they let someone younger than them bully them around. And he's still very fat btw.

It was a common occurrence.  Eric talked before about younger kids picking on him or cutting in front of him in the lunch line.  I believe the kid who was calling him names at his car was younger too.  

Bullying is bullying Sad

They did supposedly fight back but I am not sure what happened after.

Though I wonder if towards the end they ignored it mostly so they could keep a low profile?

_________________
"And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
Back to top Go down
Lizpuff

Lizpuff


Posts : 2677
Contribution Points : 95924
Forum Reputation : 1190
Join date : 2016-03-02
Age : 36

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeMon Jan 14, 2019 10:03 am

Screamingophelia wrote:
Lizpuff wrote:
rae21 wrote:
Why would they let someone younger than them bully them around. And he's still very fat btw.

It was a common occurrence.  Eric talked before about younger kids picking on him or cutting in front of him in the lunch line.  I believe the kid who was calling him names at his car was younger too.  

Bullying is bullying Sad

They did supposedly fight back but I am not sure what happened after.

Though I wonder if towards the end they ignored it mostly so they could keep a low profile?

They had gone to the dean just a few weeks before the 20th. But nothing came of that

_________________
Hold me now I need to feel complete
Like I matter to the one I need
Back to top Go down
Screamingophelia
Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Screamingophelia


Posts : 6422
Contribution Points : 193456
Forum Reputation : 1317
Join date : 2017-08-25
Age : 42

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeMon Jan 14, 2019 10:28 am

Lizpuff wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
Lizpuff wrote:
rae21 wrote:
Why would they let someone younger than them bully them around. And he's still very fat btw.

It was a common occurrence.  Eric talked before about younger kids picking on him or cutting in front of him in the lunch line.  I believe the kid who was calling him names at his car was younger too.  

Bullying is bullying Sad

They did supposedly fight back but I am not sure what happened after.

Though I wonder if towards the end they ignored it mostly so they could keep a low profile?

They had gone to the dean just a few weeks before the 20th.  But nothing came of that

Oh yea! You’re right

Then why do people deny the bullying saying they never reported it, when they did.

_________________
"And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
Back to top Go down
Lizpuff

Lizpuff


Posts : 2677
Contribution Points : 95924
Forum Reputation : 1190
Join date : 2016-03-02
Age : 36

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeMon Jan 14, 2019 10:32 am

Screamingophelia wrote:
Lizpuff wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
Lizpuff wrote:
rae21 wrote:
Why would they let someone younger than them bully them around. And he's still very fat btw.

It was a common occurrence.  Eric talked before about younger kids picking on him or cutting in front of him in the lunch line.  I believe the kid who was calling him names at his car was younger too.  

Bullying is bullying Sad

They did supposedly fight back but I am not sure what happened after.

Though I wonder if towards the end they ignored it mostly so they could keep a low profile?

They had gone to the dean just a few weeks before the 20th.  But nothing came of that

Oh yea! You’re right

Then why do people deny the bullying saying they never reported it, when they did.

I think it is more of just the surface researching. They read about how Eric and Dylan were bullied over and over and surmise that if it was continuing for so long that nothing must have been done. I am not sure how many really read the 11k to find the dean's words. And then even if they did, since the other side has been restated over and over again, would they even believe a member of the school? Perhaps they think the dean had it out for Eric and Dylan as well.

_________________
Hold me now I need to feel complete
Like I matter to the one I need
Back to top Go down
bradt93




Posts : 719
Contribution Points : 90256
Forum Reputation : 255
Join date : 2016-12-21
Location : United States

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeMon Jan 14, 2019 1:36 pm

People like Todd shouldn't be throwing stones. A guy on YT named "basedshaman" said this "does anyone really like jocks, you know besides other jocks"

_________________
bt
Back to top Go down
QuestionMark
Top 10 Contributor
QuestionMark


Posts : 4349
Contribution Points : 120128
Forum Reputation : 3191
Join date : 2017-09-04

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeMon Jan 14, 2019 2:43 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
Lizpuff wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
Lizpuff wrote:
rae21 wrote:
Why would they let someone younger than them bully them around. And he's still very fat btw.

It was a common occurrence.  Eric talked before about younger kids picking on him or cutting in front of him in the lunch line.  I believe the kid who was calling him names at his car was younger too.  

Bullying is bullying Sad

They did supposedly fight back but I am not sure what happened after.

Though I wonder if towards the end they ignored it mostly so they could keep a low profile?

They had gone to the dean just a few weeks before the 20th.  But nothing came of that

Oh yea! You’re right

Then why do people deny the bullying saying they never reported it, when they did.

Wasn't what they reported just a parking incident though? Unless the school administrators are lying, this seems to have been the only complaint Eric and Dylan made to school faculty (to my knowledge).

_________________
"My guns are the only things that haven't stabbed me in the back."
-Kip Kinkel
Back to top Go down
Lizpuff

Lizpuff


Posts : 2677
Contribution Points : 95924
Forum Reputation : 1190
Join date : 2016-03-02
Age : 36

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeMon Jan 14, 2019 3:20 pm

QuestionMark wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
Lizpuff wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
Lizpuff wrote:
rae21 wrote:
Why would they let someone younger than them bully them around. And he's still very fat btw.

It was a common occurrence.  Eric talked before about younger kids picking on him or cutting in front of him in the lunch line.  I believe the kid who was calling him names at his car was younger too.  

Bullying is bullying Sad

They did supposedly fight back but I am not sure what happened after.

Though I wonder if towards the end they ignored it mostly so they could keep a low profile?

They had gone to the dean just a few weeks before the 20th.  But nothing came of that

Oh yea! You’re right

Then why do people deny the bullying saying they never reported it, when they did.

Wasn't what they reported just a parking incident though? Unless the school administrators are lying, this seems to have been the only complaint Eric and Dylan made to school faculty (to my knowledge).

I cannot remember 100% clearly but when Dylan was in trouble for scratching another student's locker I believe he brought up another issue.

The parking incident was kids calling them names/picking on them and waiting for them by their cars to pick on them

_________________
Hold me now I need to feel complete
Like I matter to the one I need
Back to top Go down
thelmar

thelmar


Posts : 760
Contribution Points : 82507
Forum Reputation : 3068
Join date : 2018-07-15

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeWed Aug 21, 2019 10:58 pm

Saw this article and still trying to figure out how I feel about it.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

On the one hand, it's a good thing that he talks to kids about bullying, treating others with respect, and reporting warning signs.
But nowhere in the article does he mention that 20 yrs ago, he basically condoned ostracizing people who were different. I don't believe Todd personally bullied Eric and Dylan, I don't think they even knew him. But that Time magazine quote sure suggests that Todd didn't like people who were different and had no problem if they were made to feel bad for being so. I guess I'd have more respect for him if he said something along the lines of, "Hey, I used to feel this way but it was wrong and this is why."
Also, I've always been bothered by how he has changed his story of what happened to him over the years. Like saying he was shot, when he wasn't and claiming he said, "I've been good to you and you know it" instead of groveling like he actually did. In this presentation, he actually makes it seem like HE is the reason that they left the library and didn't hurt anyone else!
Quote :
He said one of the gunmen came back later and found him underneath a librarian’s desk and pulled the chair back out, held a gun to his head and asked him why he shouldn’t kill him. He talked the gunman out of killing him, and Todd said the gunman’s face changed at that point and he let the people in the room go free.

Any opinions?
Back to top Go down
true_crime

true_crime


Posts : 285
Contribution Points : 58299
Forum Reputation : 296
Join date : 2019-01-11
Location : Mountains & Molehills

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeWed Aug 21, 2019 11:28 pm

[quote="Screamingophelia"][quote="Screamingophelia"][quote="Lizpuff"]
rae21 wrote:
Why would they let someone younger than them bully them around. And he's still very fat btw.

It was a common occurrence.  Eric talked before about younger kids picking on him or cutting in front of him in the lunch line.  I believe the kid who was calling him names at his car was younger too.  

Bullying is bullying [smiley][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

They did supposedly fight back but I am not sure what happened after.

Though I wonder if towards the end they ignored it mostly so they could keep a low profile?

They had gone to the dean just a few weeks before the 20th.  But nothing came of that

Oh yea! You’re right

Then why do people deny the bullying saying they never reported it, when they did.

Because the vast majority of people in the developed world believe what they want to believe. Each person has beliefs, opinions, and biases, and the vast majority of people will discern only the information to fit their belief system and ignore all the rest of the information.

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]  True crime enthusiast for over 15 years  [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
true_crime

true_crime


Posts : 285
Contribution Points : 58299
Forum Reputation : 296
Join date : 2019-01-11
Location : Mountains & Molehills

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeWed Aug 21, 2019 11:35 pm

thelmar wrote:
Saw this article and still trying to figure out how I feel about it.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

On the one hand, it's a good thing that he talks to kids about bullying, treating others with respect, and reporting warning signs.
But nowhere in the article does he mention that 20 yrs ago, he basically condoned ostracizing people who were different. I don't believe Todd personally bullied Eric and Dylan, I don't think they even knew him. But that Time magazine quote sure suggests that Todd didn't like people who were different and had no problem if they were made to feel bad for being so. I guess I'd have more respect for him if he said something along the lines of, "Hey, I used to feel this way but it was wrong and this is why."
Also, I've always been bothered by how he has changed his story of what happened to him over the years. Like saying he was shot, when he wasn't and claiming he said, "I've been good to you and you know it" instead of groveling like he actually did. In this presentation, he actually makes it seem like HE is the reason that they left the library and didn't hurt anyone else!
He said one of the gunmen came back later and found him underneath a librarian’s desk and pulled the chair back out, held a gun to his head and asked him why he shouldn’t kill him. He talked the gunman out of killing him, and Todd said the gunman’s face changed at that point and he let the people in the room go free.

Any opinions?

Of course he was still young when that Time article came out, but he seemed like a total dick when Columbine happened and right afterwards. Around the time the article was released it sure didn’t sound like he learned anything good about himself and his actions.

I also am rubbed the wrong way by the producers of that video. It makes it sound (to the layperson) that he endured more trauma and suffering than he did. Of course it was a traumatic experience he and all the library kids went through, but it sounds as if he was pretty seriously injured (the part where it says he was the first student shot in the library).

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]  True crime enthusiast for over 15 years  [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeThu Aug 22, 2019 7:20 pm

thelmar wrote:
Saw this article and still trying to figure out how I feel about it.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

On the one hand, it's a good thing that he talks to kids about bullying, treating others with respect, and reporting warning signs.
But nowhere in the article does he mention that 20 yrs ago, he basically condoned ostracizing people who were different. I don't believe Todd personally bullied Eric and Dylan, I don't think they even knew him. But that Time magazine quote sure suggests that Todd didn't like people who were different and had no problem if they were made to feel bad for being so. I guess I'd have more respect for him if he said something along the lines of, "Hey, I used to feel this way but it was wrong and this is why."
Also, I've always been bothered by how he has changed his story of what happened to him over the years. Like saying he was shot, when he wasn't and claiming he said, "I've been good to you and you know it" instead of groveling like he actually did. In this presentation, he actually makes it seem like HE is the reason that they left the library and didn't hurt anyone else!
Quote :
He said one of the gunmen came back later and found him underneath a librarian’s desk and pulled the chair back out, held a gun to his head and asked him why he shouldn’t kill him. He talked the gunman out of killing him, and Todd said the gunman’s face changed at that point and he let the people in the room go free.

Any opinions?

The fact alone that he keeps changing his story rubs me the wrong way. I understand that trauma can make you remember things differently, but you would know if you were shot or not after the actual shooting had passed. He had nothing to do with Eric and Dylan leaving the library and his stories just make him seem arrogant.

His quote was from a time when he was much younger, granted, but he has never recanted that quote. I agree with you that he'd have more respect if he just came out and said he was young and dumb. However, given how he still seems to act... that probably won't happen.

I don't really know how I feel about this. He doesn't really have any ground to stand on after making those statements about ostracizing people who were different. Seems like he isn't the best role model for kids.
Back to top Go down
bradt93




Posts : 719
Contribution Points : 90256
Forum Reputation : 255
Join date : 2016-12-21
Location : United States

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeWed Aug 28, 2019 10:18 pm

hvernon wrote:
thelmar wrote:
Saw this article and still trying to figure out how I feel about it.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

On the one hand, it's a good thing that he talks to kids about bullying, treating others with respect, and reporting warning signs.
But nowhere in the article does he mention that 20 yrs ago, he basically condoned ostracizing people who were different. I don't believe Todd personally bullied Eric and Dylan, I don't think they even knew him. But that Time magazine quote sure suggests that Todd didn't like people who were different and had no problem if they were made to feel bad for being so. I guess I'd have more respect for him if he said something along the lines of, "Hey, I used to feel this way but it was wrong and this is why."
Also, I've always been bothered by how he has changed his story of what happened to him over the years. Like saying he was shot, when he wasn't and claiming he said, "I've been good to you and you know it" instead of groveling like he actually did. In this presentation, he actually makes it seem like HE is the reason that they left the library and didn't hurt anyone else!
Quote :
He said one of the gunmen came back later and found him underneath a librarian’s desk and pulled the chair back out, held a gun to his head and asked him why he shouldn’t kill him. He talked the gunman out of killing him, and Todd said the gunman’s face changed at that point and he let the people in the room go free.

Any opinions?

The fact alone that he keeps changing his story rubs me the wrong way. I understand that trauma can make you remember things differently, but you would know if you were shot or not after the actual shooting had passed. He had nothing to do with Eric and Dylan leaving the library and his stories just make him seem arrogant.

His quote was from a time when he was much younger, granted, but he has never recanted that quote. I agree with you that he'd have more respect if he just came out and said he was young and dumb. However, given how he still seems to act... that probably won't happen.

I don't really know how I feel about this. He doesn't really have any ground to stand on after making those statements about ostracizing people who were different. Seems like he isn't the best role model for kids.
Exactly and I would be surprised if anyone took him seriously.

_________________
bt
Back to top Go down
Norwegian
Top 10 Contributor



Posts : 1143
Contribution Points : 78603
Forum Reputation : 304
Join date : 2018-12-06

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeThu Aug 29, 2019 4:38 pm

My interpretetation of this is that he confused Eric and Dylan with TCM, when he made that statement. Langmann dwells into that phrase in hes reseach. Notice the 'horns on their helmets' and 'faggots, crutching each other'.

Google 'Search for truth at Columbine'. I think Todd confused them with other students at the school that they considered misfits.


With that being said: I still think its an appalling statement. And it illustrates a lack of tollerance towards other people. I sincerely hope that people are nicer these days. With all the anti- bullying attention going on. Its easy to judge what is considered different. I know what its like to be bullied. I know that I wasnt really nice growing up, either. Its not worth it. I got through it,but for some it can do really emotional damage.

What I hope is that there will be enough attention put on worplace bullying. Personally, I never experienced it as an adult, but it definately exists and it definately is a problem. Its not just a kids problem. A lot of the times the kids will, in fact, learn from their parents and the adults. I dont think we will ever get rid of bullying, but trying to do something is important if it can help in reducing the risk of a damaged childhood.
Back to top Go down
Norwegian
Top 10 Contributor



Posts : 1143
Contribution Points : 78603
Forum Reputation : 304
Join date : 2018-12-06

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeThu Aug 29, 2019 5:36 pm

slippy123 wrote:
Lizpuff wrote:
I thought Evan admitted to bullying both of them pretty badly.  Then he recanted.  I don't trust him.  Personally I have seen other interviews of him in 1999 and he seemed like an ass.  Maybe he has changed now but I doubt he was ever good to them

And this "testimony" was not what he reported in 99.  If he did say that, he didn't tell anyone that at the time.

I am not surprised he would believe that arming teachers is a good way to go about this.  I think it is asinine

It seems that he has definitely changed for the better, but I too have heard he was an asshole and a bully back in his Columbine days.
A few of his interviews rubbed me the wrong way also.
If he did indeed bully E &D, he is very lucky to be alive.


He admitted to bullying, but I believe that he confused people as a whole. Judging from how Langmann dwells into it, it seems like hes talking about anyone that doesnt fit in as a whole. And confuses them with Eric and Dylan.

I believe that Eric and Dylan may have been bullied, but not in the way that the media portrayed it. Langmann has a point when he suggests that we shouldnt take stuff at face value. For one, we need to define exactly what bullying is. Its an imballance of power and harassment over a long period of time. Usually directed towards people that have a hard time defending themselves. So theres a story of someone being called a dyke for talking to Dylan or you have a video of them being squeezed by a wall of jocks. No doubt is that bad. But imo as long as its not a repeated act of aggression I would call it harassment. Which isnt acceptable either. So your looking at anecdotal withness accounts, evidence, etc. I personally fall somewhere in the middle. Theres very little evidence in their writings which says that they were bullied. However, Ive seen withness accounts from friends that talks about bullying. So it sounds kind of unrealistic to deny that bullying ever happened. But I wouldnt downplay nor exaggarate the extent to which they were bullied. But trie to understand it in a proper context.

For instance there was a study from Finland which suggested that many school shooters had actually had a problem with feeling isolated, bullied or alienated. That is not to say that theres a definite answer. I tend to think that they differ generally speaking. But its to say that bullying, social isolation etc may or may not be a contributing factor.
Back to top Go down
Norwegian
Top 10 Contributor



Posts : 1143
Contribution Points : 78603
Forum Reputation : 304
Join date : 2018-12-06

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeThu Aug 29, 2019 5:48 pm

To be fair, I think that people have been incorrectly accusing him over that statement for bullying Eric and Dylan. I havent payed too much attention to him, other than a few interviews that Ive watched. I dont think its unfair to suggest that this statement seems a hell of a lot like bullying to me, and I believe that he bullied the two until I read Langmanns assessment and it changed my mind a bit about how I percieved that statement. Its still bullying, but I think that he was kind off confusing the two. Who on earthwould seriously believe that the two had horns on their helmets and were into woodoo etc?
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeThu Aug 29, 2019 6:52 pm

Norwegian wrote:
To be fair, I think that people have been incorrectly accusing him over that statement for bullying Eric and Dylan. I havent payed too much attention to him, other than a few interviews that Ive watched. I dont think its unfair to suggest that this statement seems a hell of a lot like bullying to me, and I believe that he bullied the two until I read Langmanns assessment and it changed my mind a bit about how I percieved that statement. Its still bullying, but I think that he was kind off confusing the two. Who on earthwould seriously believe that the two had horns on their helmets and were into woodoo etc?

The comment about the horns was not about Eric or Dylan, but a girl they went to school with who styled her hair to look like horns. I've forgotten now what her name was... Embarassed
Back to top Go down
thelmar

thelmar


Posts : 760
Contribution Points : 82507
Forum Reputation : 3068
Join date : 2018-07-15

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeThu Aug 29, 2019 9:58 pm

hvernon wrote:
The comment about the horns was not about Eric or Dylan, but a girl they went to school with who styled her hair to look like horns. I've forgotten now what her name was... Embarassed
Courtney Van Dell. People were actually saying that at school on 4/20 she was making comments that she was going to go get high because "something big" was going to happen at lunch time. In reality, her parents had pulled her out of Columbine a week before because of "conflicts" with staff and students. She was being home schooled and wasn't even at Columbine on 4/20. It's another one of those times when you realize that "eyewitnesses" aren't all their cracked up to be.
Back to top Go down
Norwegian
Top 10 Contributor



Posts : 1143
Contribution Points : 78603
Forum Reputation : 304
Join date : 2018-12-06

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeFri Aug 30, 2019 3:43 am

hvernon wrote:
Norwegian wrote:
To be fair, I think that people have been incorrectly accusing him over that statement for bullying Eric and Dylan. I havent payed too much attention to him, other than a few interviews that Ive watched. I dont think its unfair to suggest that this statement seems a hell of a lot like bullying to me, and I believe that he bullied the two until I read Langmanns assessment and it changed my mind a bit about how I percieved that statement. Its still bullying, but I think that he was kind off confusing the two. Who on earthwould seriously believe that the two had horns on their helmets and were into woodoo etc?

The comment about the horns was not about Eric or Dylan, but a girl they went to school with who styled her hair to look like horns. I've forgotten now what her name was... Embarassed

I believe that he may have confused Eric and Dylan with another couple. Langmann elaborates that there was another couple that engaged in homosexual sex at school.
Back to top Go down
bradt93




Posts : 719
Contribution Points : 90256
Forum Reputation : 255
Join date : 2016-12-21
Location : United States

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeSun Sep 01, 2019 12:32 am

I know Randy Brown said their was a huge bullying problem at that school and he should know, his son went there.

_________________
bt
Back to top Go down
Norwegian
Top 10 Contributor



Posts : 1143
Contribution Points : 78603
Forum Reputation : 304
Join date : 2018-12-06

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeSun Sep 01, 2019 12:10 pm

bradt93 wrote:
I know Randy Brown said their was a huge bullying problem at that school and he should know, his son went there.

You cant pass that off as a factual statement. I would look for anecdotal withness accounts. And the actual definition of bullying. Some people are genuinely confused regarding the definition.

They see every kind of mean spirited attitude as a form of bullying. This isnt accurate and it brings a lot more confusion to the subject.

To be clear, bullying involves an imballance of power and continiued forms of verbal and mental aggression. Oftentimes in groups.

Did Evan Todd bully people? Judging from that statement it definately seems like he had a tendency to pick on people.

Is there any evidence that he picked on these two in particular? I cant find any evidence of that.


Now, I am aware that there are many accounts off bullying found at Columbine. Not just directed towards the two, but a certain number of students. Some accounts involves a particular jock that Ive been aware off for some time. I think that if they are true, they are best described as criminal behaviour. Than there was the 'go bowling with freshmen', that I know Brooks Brown talked about.

The accounts Ive seen about bullying towards the two gunmen tends to be somewhat conflicted.

Most of them seems to argue that Eric was much more bullied than Dylan, and that Dylan didnt seem to have a problem with bullying, given that he was tall. Others argue that both were bullied and some argue that rhey bullied others in return.

Theres one account of ketchup being thrown at them(the ketchup incident). According to Sue Klebold he had come home with spots of ketchup on hes shirt saying that its 'the worst day of my life'. This was supported in another interviewed with one of their friends.

Eric was for the most ridiculed for hes taste in music.which doesnt actually seem like extreme bullying unlike the above mentioned. Its totally ridicilous and mean spirited, but thats very similar to any kind of bullying you will find out there.

Than you have certain other accounts that are more extreme, like the ketchup incident, such as glass bottles thrown at them, etc.

And than theres the statement made during the aftermath of the shooting. I do not trust these accounts to be accurate. I believe that there are some misinformed statements being passed around by people that didnt really know them. Thats why I would never dismiss everything that comes from a reseacher as inaccurate. I know that Peter Langmann dwelled into this and found that some accounts are unverified assumptions.

Upon reading Langmanns assessment, Evan Todd probably referenced everyone and anyone with that statement.

In other words theres no evidence that he bullied the fuck out of them, but there are other accounts from their friends which support the notion that they were bullied. Some accounts which seems to suggest that Eric was more bullied than Dylan, others which suggests that they both got picked on. Some accounts which suggests that they were unpopular. Other accounts which suggests that they were well liked.
Back to top Go down
true_crime

true_crime


Posts : 285
Contribution Points : 58299
Forum Reputation : 296
Join date : 2019-01-11
Location : Mountains & Molehills

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeSun Sep 01, 2019 2:23 pm

Norwegian wrote:
I know Randy Brown said their was a huge bullying problem at that school and he should know, his son went there.

You cant pass that off as a factual statement. I would look for anecdotal withness accounts. And the actual definition of bullying. Some people are genuinely confused regarding the definition.

They see every kind of mean spirited attitude as a form of bullying. This isnt accurate and it brings a lot more confusion to the subject.

To be clear, bullying involves an imballance of power and continiued forms of verbal and mental aggression. Oftentimes in groups.

Did Evan Todd bully people? Judging from that statement it definately seems like he had a tendency to pick on people.

Is there any evidence that he picked on these two in particular? I cant find any evidence of that.


Now, I am aware that there are many accounts off bullying found at Columbine. Not just directed towards the two, but a certain number of students. Some accounts involves a particular jock that Ive been aware off for some time. I think that if they are true, they are best described as criminal behaviour. Than there was the 'go bowling with freshmen', that I know Brooks Brown talked about.

The accounts Ive seen about bullying towards the two gunmen tends to be somewhat conflicted.

Most of them seems to argue that Eric was much more bullied than Dylan, and that Dylan didnt seem to have a problem with bullying, given that he was tall. Others argue that both were bullied and some argue that rhey bullied others in return.

Theres one account of ketchup being thrown at them(the ketchup incident). According to Sue Klebold he had come home with spots of ketchup on hes shirt saying that its 'the worst day of my life'. This was supported in another interviewed with one of their friends.

Eric was for the most ridiculed for hes taste in music.which doesnt actually seem like extreme bullying unlike the above mentioned. Its totally ridicilous and mean spirited, but thats very similar to any kind of bullying you will find out there.

Than you have certain other accounts that are more extreme, like the ketchup incident, such as glass bottles thrown at them, etc.

And than theres the statement made during the aftermath of the shooting. I do not trust these accounts to be accurate. I believe that there are some misinformed statements being passed around by people that didnt really know them. Thats why I would never dismiss everything that comes from a reseacher as inaccurate. I know that Peter Langmann dwelled into this and found that some accounts are unverified assumptions.

Upon reading Langmanns assessment, Evan Todd probably referenced everyone and anyone with that statement.

In other words theres no evidence that he bullied the fuck out of them, but there are other accounts from their friends which support the notion that they were bullied. Some accounts which seems to suggest that Eric was more bullied than Dylan, others which suggests that they both got picked on. Some accounts which suggests that they were unpopular. Other accounts which suggests that they were well liked.

Once Dylan even told his parents that the jocks gave Eric hell.

The degree of severity of bullying is a very perspective thing: It seems like some people have a higher tolerance of being able to adjust after “taking it.”

Let’s face it, the root of bullying is a lot about power. Eric was a skinny guy, and he was also pretty short for a guy. He probably came off as an easy target to his tormentors: He probably wouldn’t fight back.

It isn’t like anyone expects these thugs to come out and admit they actually bullied people and were being general douchebags.

_________________
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]  True crime enthusiast for over 15 years  [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
Onyx
Top Contributor
Onyx


Posts : 316
Contribution Points : 48752
Forum Reputation : 378
Join date : 2019-08-26
Location : Your Eye

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeSun Sep 01, 2019 6:03 pm

There are many types of victims in bullying. I think E&D were either provocative victims or bully-victims (which is the most fucked up type), so the situation wasn't black and white.
Back to top Go down
Norwegian
Top 10 Contributor



Posts : 1143
Contribution Points : 78603
Forum Reputation : 304
Join date : 2018-12-06

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeSun Sep 01, 2019 6:43 pm

Onyx wrote:
There are many types of victims in bullying. I think E&D were either provocative victims or bully-victims (which is the most fucked up type), so the situation wasn't black and white.

No doubt its about power, and Im not saying that you should just 'take it'. As it can have negative consequences, mentally and emotionally. I wrote about this more exstensively over here, too. The link between bullying and severe mental health problems. I do think that the motive behind bullying, however, can be different from person to person and that for a number of bullies they themselves have been bullied and will therefore take on others for being bullied themselves. And than some people are just purely narssistic and have no regard for people around them. But def as you say, bullying is about power and control.

My point is that some of the accounts of bullying seems like the 'regular' type that you can find anywhere(making fun of Eric for hes taste in music), whereas other accounts seems a lot more like criminal behaviour/assault(the ketchup incident and throwing stuff at them).

Than also the extent to which they were bullied seems to depend on who you ask, because everyone that Ive read into that knew them gives different accounts of how well liked they were or to what extent they were bullied.


What safe to say, however, in my view, is that the accounts that came from students that had very little knowledge of the two have a certain risk off being inaccurate. If you read major news outlet today, for instance, you will find that kids picked up on stuff that they had heard on the TV screen etc. I believe that Evan Todd may have confused the two with other people. They didnt wear horns on their helmets or crutched each others private parts, nor were they engaged in witchcraft.
Back to top Go down
Onyx
Top Contributor
Onyx


Posts : 316
Contribution Points : 48752
Forum Reputation : 378
Join date : 2019-08-26
Location : Your Eye

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeSun Sep 01, 2019 7:23 pm

Quote :
I do think that the motive behind bullying, however, can be different from person to person and that for a number of bullies they themselves have been bullied and will therefore take on others for being bullied themselves. And than some people are just purely narssistic and have no regard for people around them.

Yeah, and sometimes it doesn't even have a deeper meaning because it's just a teenage urge to tease (or in this case bully) someone.

Quote :
Than also the extent to which they were bullied seems to depend on who you ask, because everyone that Ive read into that knew them gives different accounts of how well liked they were or to what extent they were bullied.

If we talk about bullying as it is defined, then the most important thing in it's definition is "repeatedly", not single episodes of nasty behaviour or random acts of teasing and intimidation, or maybe arguing and stuff. Somehow, I don't remember any statement that they were repeatedly teased, except when Dylan told his mother that jocks are giving Eric hell or during their junior year (if I'm correct) when there were a group of seniors that were teasing them.

(Btw, does anybody know what was the time frame of that Dylan's comment regarding Eric and jocks? And are there any accounts of them being bullied (any by that I mean repeatedly picked on) in their senior year?

Quote :

What safe to say, however, in my view, is that the accounts that came from students that had very little knowledge of the two have a certain risk off being inaccurate. If you read major news outlet today, for instance, you will find that kids picked up on stuff that they had heard on the TV screen etc. I believe that Evan Todd may have confused the two with other people. They didnt wear horns on their helmets or crutched each others private parts, nor were they engaged in witchcraft.

And it's often like a Chinese whispers game (or in my native language "broken telephone" Laughing).
That being said, I think their friends know the best and their statements are most valid ones, despite being subjective.
Back to top Go down
303




Posts : 45
Contribution Points : 63070
Forum Reputation : 25
Join date : 2017-06-25

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeThu Sep 05, 2019 5:18 pm

well i think we all know that dylan was some kind of a little drama queen. when he really felt that some ketchup on his shirt was the "worst day in his life", than i can't stop eye-rolling. even when it was thrown with tampons, that's not much more than some kindergarten bullying. so i won't put too much weight in it when he said "they gave eric hell".

and yes, both of them were bullies too. remember their missions? i would call this kind if stuff bullying too. but it was, well, i would call it coward bullying, because the never ran into a situation, were they face someone directly when they did it. so they don't have to fear consequences.
Back to top Go down
Norwegian
Top 10 Contributor



Posts : 1143
Contribution Points : 78603
Forum Reputation : 304
Join date : 2018-12-06

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeFri Sep 06, 2019 11:33 am

Onyx wrote:
Quote :
I do think that the motive behind bullying, however, can be different from person to person and that for a number of bullies they themselves have been bullied and will therefore take on others for being bullied themselves. And than some people are just purely narssistic and have no regard for people around them.

Yeah, and sometimes it doesn't even have a deeper meaning because it's just a teenage urge to tease (or in this case bully) someone.

Quote :
Than also the extent to which they were bullied seems to depend on who you ask, because everyone that Ive read into that knew them gives different accounts of how well liked they were or to what extent they were bullied.

If we talk about bullying as it is defined, then the most important thing in it's definition is "repeatedly", not single episodes of nasty behaviour or random acts of teasing and intimidation, or maybe arguing and stuff. Somehow, I don't remember any statement that they were repeatedly teased, except when Dylan told his mother that jocks are giving Eric hell or during their junior year (if I'm correct) when there were a group of seniors that were teasing them.

(Btw, does anybody know what was the time frame of that Dylan's comment regarding Eric and jocks? And are there any accounts of them being bullied (any by that I mean repeatedly picked on) in their senior year?

Quote :

What safe to say, however, in my view, is that the accounts that came from students that had very little knowledge of the two have a certain risk off being inaccurate. If you read major news outlet today, for instance, you will find that kids picked up on stuff that they had heard on the TV screen etc. I believe that Evan Todd may have confused the two with other people. They didnt wear horns on their helmets or crutched each others private parts, nor were they engaged in witchcraft.

And it's often like a Chinese whispers game (or in my native language "broken telephone" Laughing).
That being said, I think their friends know the best and their statements are most valid ones, despite being subjective.


Devon and Nate Did say something about teasing and bullying .

I found one called more insight on Dylan Klebold. From Acolumbinesute
Back to top Go down
Lunkhead McGrath




Posts : 476
Contribution Points : 75886
Forum Reputation : 225
Join date : 2016-11-03

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeTue Sep 10, 2019 7:44 pm

303 wrote:
well i think we all know that dylan was some kind of a little drama queen. when he really felt that some ketchup on his shirt was the "worst day in his life", than i can't stop eye-rolling. even when it was thrown with tampons, that's not much more than some kindergarten bullying. so i won't put too much weight in it when he said "they gave eric hell".

and yes, both of them were bullies too. remember their missions? i would call this kind if stuff bullying too. but it was, well, i would call it coward bullying, because the never ran into a situation, were they face someone directly when they did it. so they don't have to fear consequences.

The worst day of my life--or at least the embarrassing high-school incident I go back to the most--was in my junior or senior year and involved a redneck at my high school physically humiliating me. He had a bag of dried cranberries and was whipping them in my face on the bus. As I stood up to get out of my seat he took the empty plastic bag and whipped me across the face with it, giggling and laughing with glee. I flew into a lame fury and decided, pathetically, to fight back--I couldn't take it anymore. I tried to stuff the plastic bag down his shirt and kicked him in the back of the legs. He stopped moving forward, without facing me, flexed his fists at his sides, then turned around and with lightning speed swatted me, WHACK WHACK WHACK three times in the head full power. He is about 280 pounds of muscle and I probably weighed 150 with skinny arms. It terrified me and my eyes welled up with tears and I yelped in pain. On the way out of the bus, he belted me in the back of the head again. "What's the matter, are you gonna cry?" I don't even think anybody saw it, but it's the worst anyone's ever hurt me. I did not have the nerve to tell school administrators--this was probably a year or so after Columbine, but whining to the principal about getting bullied was still highly frowned on by both boys and teachers alike back then, and most guys at school already thought I was a crybaby and a pussy. Furthermore, fighting back, at least in Midwestern high schools, would have gotten one in trouble, possibly even expelled. Certainly using a weapon, even in justified self-defense, would not be tolerated. So much for school "preparing you to be an adult"--if we were adults and I'd bashed this guy's head with a rock, it could be construed as self-defense. But I had a terrible fear of being punished at school and would do anything to avoid a trip to the principal's office or suspension or expulsion. If you were to take me, now 36 years old, and send me back through high school again somehow, I don't know how I would even handle anything much better.

I flash back to this incident probably 20 times a week and am constantly thinking up scenarios where I would have severely hurt this kid as revenge, or could have handled the situation better, or been a more mature person and tattled on the dumb hick (and god, was he EVER a pig-faced, beady-eyed, grunting truck driving redneck kid) but it's just tortured me and I feel awful a lot of the time because of it. There's a lot of self-loathing tied up in it, too, since I handled it so poorly.

The points I'm trying to make with this story concern the different levels of tolerance people have for bullying. I still do not really think bullying was the primary reason for Columbine (and I certainly wish there more WITNESSES to come forward about the dumb ketchup tampon story, not just two measly damned people), but I'm still so haunted by these, and a couple of other embarrassing high school incidents years later, so yes, the point remains, it can really get to one--I'm probably on the autism spectrum, too, which surely makes it worse. I have not been in a physical confrontation since high school and there are people who have been hurt ten times worse than me, but shown more resilience over it. In fact, I would find being told to be resilient to be obnoxious, like kicking someone when they are down.

In addition, LPorter has detailed some lengthy posts concerning his own embarrassment as a teen, but almost none of it involved physical confrontations. Different people are impacted differently.
A point reiterated in the recent film Eighth Grade, which is not from 1999 but from last year, and whose young heroine does not once actually get bullied by anyone in the entire movie but still feels like crap most of the time anyway.
Back to top Go down
Norwegian
Top 10 Contributor



Posts : 1143
Contribution Points : 78603
Forum Reputation : 304
Join date : 2018-12-06

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeTue Sep 10, 2019 7:57 pm

Lunkhead McGrath wrote:
303 wrote:
well i think we all know that dylan was some kind of a little drama queen. when he really felt that some ketchup on his shirt was the "worst day in his life", than i can't stop eye-rolling. even when it was thrown with tampons, that's not much more than some kindergarten bullying. so i won't put too much weight in it when he said "they gave eric hell".

and yes, both of them were bullies too. remember their missions? i would call this kind if stuff bullying too. but it was, well, i would call it coward bullying, because the never ran into a situation, were they face someone directly when they did it. so they don't have to fear consequences.

The worst day of my life--or at least the embarrassing high-school incident I go back to the most--was in my junior or senior year and involved a redneck at my high school physically humiliating me.  He had a bag of dried cranberries and was whipping them in my face on the bus.  As I stood up to get out of my seat he took the empty plastic bag and whipped me across the face with it, giggling and laughing with glee.  I flew into a lame fury and decided, pathetically, to fight back--I couldn't take it anymore.  I tried to stuff the plastic bag down his shirt and kicked him in the back of the legs.  He stopped moving forward, without facing me, flexed his fists at his sides, then turned around and with lightning speed swatted me, WHACK WHACK WHACK three times in the head full power.  He is about 280 pounds of muscle and I probably weighed 150 with skinny arms. It terrified me and my eyes welled up with tears and I yelped in pain.  On the way out of the bus, he belted me in the back of the head again.  "What's the matter, are you gonna cry?" I don't even think anybody saw it, but it's the worst anyone's ever hurt me.  I did not have the nerve to tell school administrators--this was probably a year or so after Columbine, but whining to the principal about getting bullied was still highly frowned on by both boys and teachers alike back then, and most guys at school already thought I was a crybaby and a pussy.  Furthermore, fighting back, at least in Midwestern high schools, would have gotten one in trouble, possibly even expelled. Certainly using a weapon, even in justified self-defense, would not be tolerated.  So much for school "preparing you to be an adult"--if we were adults and I'd bashed this guy's head with a rock, it could be construed as self-defense.  But I had a terrible fear of being punished at school and would do anything to avoid a trip to the principal's office or suspension or expulsion.  If you were to take me, now 36 years old, and send me back through high school again somehow, I don't know how I would even handle anything much better.  

I flash back to this incident probably 20 times a week and am constantly thinking up scenarios where I would have severely hurt this kid as revenge, or could have handled the situation better, or been a more mature person and tattled on the dumb hick (and god, was he EVER a pig-faced, beady-eyed, grunting truck driving redneck kid) but it's just tortured me and I feel awful a lot of the time because of it.    There's a lot of self-loathing tied up in it, too, since I handled it so poorly.  

The points I'm trying to make with this story concern the different levels of tolerance people have for bullying.  I still do not really think bullying was the primary reason for Columbine (and I certainly wish there more WITNESSES to come forward about the dumb ketchup tampon story, not just two measly damned people), but I'm still so haunted by these, and a couple of other embarrassing high school incidents years later, so yes, the point remains, it can really get to one--I'm probably on the autism spectrum, too, which surely makes it worse.  I have not been in a physical confrontation since high school and there are people who have been hurt ten times worse than me, but shown more resilience over it.  In fact, I would find being told to be resilient to be obnoxious, like kicking someone when they are down.  

In addition, LPorter has detailed some lengthy posts concerning his own embarrassment as a teen, but almost none of it involved physical confrontations.  Different people are impacted differently.  
A point reiterated in the recent film Eighth Grade, which is not from 1999 but from last year, and whose young heroine does not once actually get bullied by anyone in the entire movie but still feels like crap most of the time anyway.

Id say, downright murder. But yes, Ive heard stories supporting both sides. Theres no denying that bullying can be a two way street.

Other than that, I gather that what you just said must be a horrible experience for you. That stuff can take years to overcome. I hope that you can talk to someone that understands what uou are going through. Best of wishes.
Back to top Go down
Onyx
Top Contributor
Onyx


Posts : 316
Contribution Points : 48752
Forum Reputation : 378
Join date : 2019-08-26
Location : Your Eye

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeTue Sep 10, 2019 8:06 pm

Thank you for sharing your story.
You handled it the best you could at that time...well, you are now a mature, or should I say an upgraded, version of yourself, overthinking it nevertheless, but it doesn't make any sense in the end, because this horrible experience helped you to be who you are today.

It's all in the past and hopefully that redneck feels stupid how he behaved 20 years ago. F*ck him!
Back to top Go down
thelmar

thelmar


Posts : 760
Contribution Points : 82507
Forum Reputation : 3068
Join date : 2018-07-15

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeWed Sep 11, 2019 8:59 pm

@Lunkhead McGrath What happened to you is really shitty and I'm sorry you had that experience.
You bring up a great point that I don't think gets emphasized enough. People talk about bullying as though it has to take a certain form, e.g., bullying is continuous abuse not a one time thing, bullying involves an imbalance of power, "real" bullying involves physical abuse of some sort, etc.
The dictionary definition of the verb "bully" is  
Quote :
seek to harm, intimidate, or coerce (someone perceived as vulnerable)
That's all. A bully sees someone they think they can take advantage of and they do it. Not all bullies are popular kids, not all bullies are the physically strongest kids. But all bullies derive some sort of pay off from making another person feel less than. That's why they bully.

I've also noticed that the emphasis often seems to be on what the bully is doing, e.g., he's just calling a kid names so that's not "as bad" as if he punched the kid.
But bullying is every bit as much about the perception of the person on the receiving end of the behavior. Maybe someone with a reasonably good self esteem isn't going to think being called loser, idiot, or a homophobic slur is so bad. But to another person, maybe those words pack a devastating blow to their self worth. Maybe one person thinks getting punched by a bully in front of a crowd of people is embarrassing but they know a week from now everyone will have forgotten about it. But to another person, it could be the most humiliating experience of their life and they can't forsee a time when other kids will ever let them live it down.

My point is, it's not up to people outside of the situation to put a value on the "quality" of the bullying or whether a victim of bullying is "overreacting" to what occurred. Some people are more prone to living inside their own heads and to replaying things over and over, often making it worse each time. Blaming them for that or telling them to "suck it up" has zero effect on changing their outlook. It's about brain health and emotional wellness and people need to be given the tools to learn how to more effectively deal with painful situations. Some people will always feel slights more deeply than others but they can be taught how to alter some of their "self talk" in a more positive direction, to hopefully not allow themselves to remain too long in that place of hurt. I hope this is one of the things that Sue Klebold focuses on when she speaks to parents and students.

Norwegian likes this post

Back to top Go down
Lunkhead McGrath




Posts : 476
Contribution Points : 75886
Forum Reputation : 225
Join date : 2016-11-03

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: bullied   19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeThu Sep 12, 2019 3:40 pm

thelmar wrote:
@Lunkhead McGrath What happened to you is really shitty and I'm sorry you had that experience.
You bring up a great point that I don't think gets emphasized enough. People talk about bullying as though it has to take a certain form, e.g., bullying is continuous abuse not a one time thing, bullying involves an imbalance of power, "real" bullying involves physical abuse of some sort, etc.
The dictionary definition of the verb "bully" is  
Quote :
seek to harm, intimidate, or coerce (someone perceived as vulnerable)
That's all. A bully sees someone they think they can take advantage of and they do it. Not all bullies are popular kids, not all bullies are the physically strongest kids. But all bullies derive some sort of pay off from making another person feel less than. That's why they bully.

I've also noticed that the emphasis often seems to be on what the bully is doing, e.g., he's just calling a kid names so that's not "as bad" as if he punched the kid.
But bullying is every bit as much about the perception of the person on the receiving end of the behavior. Maybe someone with a reasonably good self esteem isn't going to think being called loser, idiot, or a homophobic slur is so bad. But to another person, maybe those words pack a devastating blow to their self worth. Maybe one person thinks getting punched by a bully in front of a crowd of people is embarrassing but they know a week from now everyone will have forgotten about it. But to another person, it could be the most humiliating experience of their life and they can't forsee a time when other kids will ever let them live it down.

My point is, it's not up to people outside of the situation to put a value on the "quality" of the bullying or whether a victim of bullying is "overreacting" to what occurred. Some people are more prone to living inside their own heads and to replaying things over and over, often making it worse each time. Blaming them for that or telling them to "suck it up" has zero effect on changing their outlook. It's about brain health and emotional wellness and people need to be given the tools to learn how to more effectively deal with painful situations. Some people will always feel slights more deeply than others but they can be taught how to alter some of their "self talk" in a more positive direction, to hopefully not allow themselves to remain too long in that place of hurt. I hope this is one of the things that Sue Klebold focuses on when she speaks to parents and students.

Thanks for the kind words, guys. I suppose. I mean, the biggest problem with those embarrassing experiences is that I keep going back to them. They never go away! I live in the past too much--I'm obsessed with my own memories and how sadly long ago they were, both the good and bad ones. College had no embarrassing experiences and was a far greater golden age of my youth than high school ever was. And it wasn't because I was around more mature people--I was in a dorm hall full of Midwestern jock moron types my freshman and sophomore years. But those were great years anyway--I anthologize them in my mind all the time.

"Suck it up"--this is someone one says because they don't feel like hearing the other guy's problems, not because the other guy doesn't have them.

I never got into another confrontation with that guy ever again. I've never seen him since high school and don't want to; if I did, I'd sure hope I'd be carrying a telescopic police baton or something. Again, a lot of this has to do with teenage boys being afraid of being called wimps for going to the authorities. And, the other guy could just deny that he swatted me (it's not like being belted in the side of the head with some guys' four hundred pound hand leaves a mark or anything) and I'd probably get punished along side him for fighting back (which I did) and then there would be a phone call to my parents which usually drove them to the point of insanity, which scared me as a kid a lot. Not now--but then. I'm annoyed with how I was then. I didn't work out at all because I hated it, which was like painting a big target on your back in a Midwestern jock daycare center of a high school in the 90s. Nowadays, who knows--maybe the conservative crowd is right and today's boys are all autistic bedwedding social media video game junkie scrawny transgender crybabies--something (minus the transgender and bedwetting parts) I would have pioneered back then! But there was literally no reason to go to my high school if you did not play sports. "Education" quality was poor and nobody cared (our science class had us still watching old film strips from the 1970s, which was like something out of The Simpsons.)
Just talking about this is making me feel very sick and weak but again, it's high school--you can't smash the guy's head with a brick.

If I'd had to go to counselling or something because of it--or because of ANYTHING--my adolescent mind probably would have just told me to fight with the counselor or blow their argument away or just not listen to them.

This incident is not what attracted me to reading up on Columbine again. I would never have shot up my school or wanted to or even threatened it in jest and I think my immediate response to NBK was to condemn Eric and Dylan. I have never identified with them and find them despicable and if they were my classmates I would have not had kind words for them to the press, had the press come to me. I believe bullying happened, but that it's probably a secondary factor in why NBK happened.

Cullen tried to use the "it has to happen continuously for it to actually be the definition of bullying" thing in the 2016 addendum/postscript thingy to his book. He said he was bullied in high school.
Back to top Go down
Norwegian
Top 10 Contributor



Posts : 1143
Contribution Points : 78603
Forum Reputation : 304
Join date : 2018-12-06

19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitimeTue Nov 02, 2021 7:25 am

Dan Olweus, regarded as the 'founding father' of the termcsme out with a book in 1973. This definition has been videly used as a reference to bullying.

Imballance of power and repetiton are key. Than we have to look at: 'Who are their targets?'. Oftentimes, the children that are targeted by bullying tends to be much more sensitive, nervous and so on.

Who are likely to be bullies? They dont all come into one category. Bullies are likely to be dominant. They may lack empathy for others. They also May have problems with authority, i e getting into fights with teachers and adults.

Than there are bullying- victims: These will occupy the Middle ground as both bullies and bullied.

The harmful effects of bullying can be devastating to both the perpetrator and the victim. Early intervention is needed.

What is not bullying: when two equal parties are having a fight or when someone is mean on one occasion. I E, harasment, which can happen once, but if repeated they may result in bullying behaviour.
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content





19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Empty
PostSubject: Re: 19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video    19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video  Icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 
19 Years After Columbine: Evan Todd Video
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Oldschool 2000 reactions to Evan Todd's diarrheia of the mouth
» A Grim Education - 72 years of School shootings :video
» Why did they let Evan Todd live?
» Video of how Columbine looks 20 years later
» Did Evan Todd bully Eric and Dylan?

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum :: Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum :: Documents, Evidence, and Videos-
Jump to: