Judy Brown vs. Susan Klebold

Was Judy Brown really a good friend of Susan Klebold?

Here is a transcript of a TV interview with Randy and Judy Brown:

Quote :

ABRAMS: Five years after the massacre at Columbine High School, there‘s still a lot of unanswered questions. One of them, what do the parents of the killers have to say? On April 20, 1999, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold killed 12 students and a teacher before taking their own lives, but theirs parents haven‘t publicly spoken about the incident and their depositions from civil lawsuits filed by families of the victims have been sealed.

But now Klebold‘s parents, Tom and Susan Klebold, finally breaking their silence to David Brooks of “The New York Times”. His mother Susan saying, I haven‘t done anything for which I need forgiveness. Rather than taking any responsibility for the shooting, she blames the—quote—“toxic culture” of the school, which she says worshipped athletes and tolerated bullying. Earlier today Brooks described his conversation with the Klebolds.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID BROOKS, “THE NEW YORK TIMES”: They see it as—interestingly, they see it as a suicide primarily. They know their kid killed people. They know the horror that he brought to other families, but as they talk about it, they see it as someone who was in pain and who committed suicide in this horrible way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ABRAMS: The Klebolds liken the day of the shootings to a natural disaster calling it a—quote—“hurricane and a rain of fire.” The remarks not sitting well with some of the victims‘ parents.

Randy and Judy Brown were friends of the Klebolds before the shootings and their son Brooks Brown. Brooks was friends with both Eric and Dylan. The day of the shootings Eric even warned Brooks to go home.

Thank you both for coming back on the program. Appreciate it. So...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you Dan.

ABRAMS: ... Judy, are you surprised by Susan Klebold‘s comments?

JUDY BROWN, FORMER FRIEND OF THE KLEBOLDS: I‘m surprised and very disgusted by her comments. I am ashamed to have said that I was her friend. These comments are very unacceptable. I‘m just shocked. I am shocked at the coldness and the lack of compassion.

ABRAMS: Randy, let me read you another quote from what apparently the Klebolds said, Susan Klebold said to “The New York Times”. Dylan did not do this because of the way he was raised. He did it in contradiction to the way he was raised. And basically what she seems to be saying is you know don‘t blame us.

RANDY BROWN, FORMER FRIEND OF THE KLEBOLDS: It‘s an awful safe interview to do to talk to David Brooks, a reporter for “The New York Times”, who doesn‘t know any of the facts about Columbine or any of the history and he can‘t ask them relevant questions. I would hope that this is the first step for the Klebolds and the Harrises, that they would come out and tell publicly everything that they know about their children, that they would tell the truth, that they would tell their attorneys that after five years, enough is enough, it‘s time to quit hiding. It‘s time to quit keeping lies. It‘s time to tell the truth so that experts like Ralph Larkin (ph) and James Gabarino (ph) and Gavin De Becker and all the other experts that want to know these things can learn from these.

ABRAMS: What...

R. BROWN: These parents need to go public.

ABRAMS: Randy, what do you want them to say? I mean what is it you want to hear out of their mouths?

R. BROWN: I don‘t want to blame them. I don‘t want to hate them. And I don‘t, but they need to come out. Their children murdered innocent children in a school. They need to share with these experts and with parents everywhere everything that they know so that we can stop this from happening again. But they also need to apologize to these families, something that they have never really done.

ABRAMS: Let me read again, Judy, this—again from the article in “The New York Times”. Tom Klebold just said he was hopeless. We didn‘t realize it until after the end. Susan Klebold, I think he suffered horribly before he died. For not seeing that, I will never forgive myself.

Has your son given you any insight into, you know, his relationship with his parents? Based on your knowing Susan Klebold, do you know what kind of mother she was, how active she was in her son‘s life, et cetera?

J. BROWN: I do know a lot of things, Tom or—sorry, Dan. This is so upsetting. I have to tell you, I don‘t believe that they intentionally raised a murderer, but certainly parents are a piece of the puzzle and Tom Klebold is saying I hope an authoritative person will do a study and give us answers. Well Tom needs to understand that people want answers too and he has the answers to what happened in that family.

You have to know that the Klebolds are active in having their depositions in court destroyed and they want all of Dylan‘s writings destroyed and his journals destroyed. They are not willing to share information and I think that‘s real disturbing because a lot of people deserve answers. The families that lost children, those kids suffered that day, and I am shocked that Sue doesn‘t feel that she owes any apology to these families. I don‘t understand it.
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ABRAMS: And you and Susan—Sue were good friends, right, before this happened?

J. BROWN: We were good friends before and I will tell you though we had had a falling out because I believed that she should speak with the parents of the kids that were murdered. We tried to arrange that because they said we don‘t need to go to court, we just want answers and they were willing to do it outside the court system. These are not angry, out of control parents. They just want answers and the Klebolds refused to do it. They refused to sit with them. They refused to do it.

ABRAMS: And as a result of that, your friendship ended?

J. BROWN: That‘s right.

ABRAMS: Randy, do you think that you‘re ever going to hear an “I‘m sorry” from either the Harris or Klebold family?

R. BROWN: Actually, I should say that it isn‘t as important that they say I‘m sorry as that they come out and tell everything that they know and reveal everything that they know, the writings, the videotapes, the things that they are keeping secret...

ABRAMS: That‘s a good distinction...

R. BROWN: ... so that people can learn from this.

ABRAMS: Yes. No, I appreciate that. It‘s a good distinction. Randy and Judy Brown, thank you once again for joining me. Appreciate it.

R. BROWN: Thank you Dan.

J. BROWN: Dan, thank you.

And here are some excerpts from Susan Klebold's book:

Quote :

I looked up to see a figure coming up the driveway. It was Judy Brown, the mother of one of Dylan’s childhood friends, Brooks. Alerted by the Littleton rumor mill that Dylan was involved in the events at the school, she had come to our house.

I was startled to see her. Our boys had been good friends in first and second grades and then reunited in high school, but they hadn’t been close, and I’d only seen Judy a few times in the years since elementary school. We’d chatted warmly a few weeks before, at a school event, but we’d never done anything together except when our boys were involved, and I wasn’t sure I could manage any social niceties. I was too disoriented to question why she was there, but it did seem odd for her to have materialized during this most private of times. She and Alison [the young woman renting their guest house at the time] sat on either side of me on our brick sidewalk, urging me to drink the water they’d brought. Tom and Byron paced up and down the front walk with brooding expressions as we all struggled with our own splintered thoughts. (p. 26)

[...]

Later that month, I got a phone call from Judy Brown, the mother of Dylan’s friend Brooks. Brooks and Eric had gotten into a fight at school, and Eric had thrown a snowball at Brooks’s car, damaging the windshield. Judy was furious and launched into a tirade against Eric, which perplexed me. It seemed to me that the boys shared responsibility for the incident, and I didn’t understand her impulse to get involved when they’d resolved it themselves. The ferocity of her hatred for Eric seemed like an overreaction to me. (p. 196)

[...]

The following night, March 30, I attended a pre-graduation meeting for parents of seniors and ran into Judy Brown. Since our phone conversation about the snowball more than a year earlier, we’d seen each other only briefly, mostly after school productions, and so we were eager to catch up. Before long, our conversation veered off into our mutual interest in art—my figure drawing sessions, and some classes she’d taken. We looked at some drawings I had stashed in my car before saying good-bye. Neither one of us mentioned Eric. (p. 241)

So what do you think?

I do not think Judy was a good friend to Sue. I think Judy overstepped her bounds way too much. She also perpetuated the whole Dylan was in love with Rachel thing. And I’m 99% sure Sue said in an interview that “Judy doesn’t like most people”

Screamingophelia wrote:

I do not think Judy was a good friend to Sue. I think Judy overstepped her bounds way too much. She also perpetuated the whole Dylan was in love with Rachel thing. And I’m 99% sure Sue said in  an interview that “Judy doesn’t like most people”  

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Quote :

Mrs. Klebold said that she does know that Judy Brown did not like Eric Harris, however, she indicated that "Judy doesn't like a lot of people."

Honestly, Judy is not a friend.

LPorter101 wrote:

So what do you think?

I have two thoughts about these conflicting accounts. First, I do believe Judy wanted Sue to talk with some of the victims but refused to do so. However, I understand Mrs. Klebold's reluctance. Mrs. Klebold's grief for her son was so much more complicated because of what he did, and I surmise that's the reason why she initially refused. She couldn't cope with her personal loss and her son's murderous schemes at the same time. Remember, Mrs. Brown's son did not commit this massacre, Mrs. Klebold's son did. Therefore, her response to that checkout lady was rational: she did not kill these children. We should start blaming the perpetrators, not the perpretrators' parents.

Also, I'm uncertain whether Brooks had a close relationship with Dylan. Mrs. Klebold seems to believe that Nate Dykeman and Zach Heckler were closer to Dylan than Brooks, although the Browns believe otherwise.

jada887 wrote:

LPorter101 wrote:

So what do you think?

I have two thoughts about these conflicting accounts. First, I do believe Judy wanted Sue to talk with some of the victims but refused to do so. However, I understand Mrs. Klebold's reluctance. Mrs. Klebold's grief for her son was so much more complicated because of what he did, and I surmise that's the reason why she initially refused. She couldn't cope with her personal loss and her son's murderous schemes at the same time. Remember, Mrs. Brown's son did not commit this massacre, Mrs. Klebold's son did. Therefore, her response to that checkout lady was rational: she did not kill these children. We should start blaming the perpetrators, not the perpretrators' parents.  

Also, I'm uncertain whether Brooks had a close relationship with Dylan. Mrs. Klebold seems to believe that Nate Dykeman and Zach Heckler were closer to Dylan than Brooks, although the Browns believe otherwise.

I don’t think Brooks was as close to Dylan as Zach and Nate were by a long shit.

Judy Brown always gave off the impression that she was a giant busybody.
I get the impression that Judy didn't try to become close friends with Sue when the boys were alive, yet after the massacre she suddenly tried to act like they were super close, and was one of the first "friends" to show up at her house.

I get the feeling that her ill comments toward Sue stemmed from spite, because Sue didn't give her the time of day she wanted.

Judy never seemed to turn down a chance to be in the spotlight, and the fact that she even spoke negativity about Sue shows what kind of vindictive person she could be.

She could of taken the highroad and just said "Sue has been through alot, and out of respect I will gracefully bow out of commenting on her.

On the other hand, Randy Brown always gave me the impression that he was genuine.

slippy123 wrote:

Judy Brown always gave off the impression that she was a giant busybody.
I get the impression that Judy didn't try to become close friends with Sue when the boys were alive, yet after the massacre she suddenly tried to act like they were super close, and was one of the first "friends" to show up at her house.

I get the feeling that her ill comments toward Sue stemmed from spite, because Sue didn't give her the time of day she wanted.

Judy never seemed to turn down a chance to be in the spotlight, and the fact that she even spoke negativity about Sue shows what kind of vindictive person she could be.

She could of taken the highroad and just said "Sue has been through alot, and out of respect I will gracefully bow out of commenting on her comments".

On the other hand, Randy Brown always gave me the impression that he was genuine.

Brooks is his mother's son, isn't he?

LPorter101 wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

Judy Brown always gave off the impression that she was a giant busybody.
I get the impression that Judy didn't try to become close friends with Sue when the boys were alive, yet after the massacre she suddenly tried to act like they were super close, and was one of the first "friends" to show up at her house.

I get the feeling that her ill comments toward Sue stemmed from spite, because Sue didn't give her the time of day she wanted.

Judy never seemed to turn down a chance to be in the spotlight, and the fact that she even spoke negativity about Sue shows what kind of vindictive person she could be.

She could of taken the highroad and just said "Sue has been through alot, and out of respect I will gracefully bow out of commenting on her comments".

On the other hand, Randy Brown always gave me the impression that he was genuine.

Brooks is his mother's son, isn't he?

As the saying goes, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree

But to be honest, I give Brooks slightly more leeway considering he actually was friends with the boys and was at the school that day.

I remember seeing that interview the day after the shooting in his backyard, and he looked absolutely devastated.

Brooks is far from perfect, but in all the interviews and shows he has appeared in, he seemed to be genuine and not there just for his own gain.

I think they were only acquaintances brought together by the friendship of Dylan and Brooks and Judy decided to capitalize on that on the 20th so she could get gossip.

Any "friend" would not have come all the way to the Klebold house on the day of the massacre poking her head around the police cars asking questions. That lady is just as nuts as her son.

Lizpuff wrote:

I think they were only acquaintances brought together by the friendship of Dylan and Brooks and Judy decided to capitalize on that on the 20th so she could get gossip.

Any "friend" would not have come all the way to the Klebold house on the day of the massacre poking her head around the police cars asking questions.  That lady is just as nuts as her son.

Sue not slapping Judy and telling her to leave when she started talking about how she knew Eric was dangerous shows she’s a class act.

I call BS on assuming the police knew about Eric’s site when e and d were arrested.

Dylan was not perfect but he did not make threats towards anyone on the site, he would not have gotten into trouble.

Screamingophelia wrote:

Lizpuff wrote:

I think they were only acquaintances brought together by the friendship of Dylan and Brooks and Judy decided to capitalize on that on the 20th so she could get gossip.

Any "friend" would not have come all the way to the Klebold house on the day of the massacre poking her head around the police cars asking questions.  That lady is just as nuts as her son.

Sue not  slapping Judy and telling her to leave when she started talking about how she knew Eric was dangerous shows she’s a class act.

I call BS on assuming the police knew about Eric’s site when e and d were arrested.

Dylan was not perfect but he did not make threats towards anyone on the site, he would not have gotten into trouble.

At one point at least one cop knew of Eric's site. However when he wrote it down for the initial police report he had a typo and couldn't get to the site and no one looked any further. (funny how no one really knew how to navigate the internet back then). It is probably that they had forgotten about the site by that time but at one point someone in law enforcement knew something

slippy123 wrote:

Brooks is far from perfect, but in all the interviews and shows he has appeared in, he seemed to be genuine and not there just for his own gain.

"Where would Martin Luther King be without cameras?" Brooks Brown, No Easy Answers.

jada887 wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

Brooks is far from perfect, but in all the interviews and shows he has appeared in, he seemed to be genuine and not there just for his own gain.

"Where would Martin Luther King be without cameras?" Brooks Brown, No Easy Answers.

What was the context of that comment?
I don't see what that has to do about Judy's comments on Sue, or Brooks being genuinely devastated about his close friends killing people, some of whom he was friends with himself.
Unlike his mother who's claim to fame is being an acquaintance of Sue, whom never seemed to turn down a "look at me" moment.

It's obvious Sue's "hurricane" comment was a metaphor, probably about how fast everything happened, and the large amount of damage left in it's wake.

slippy123 wrote:

jada887 wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

Brooks is far from perfect, but in all the interviews and shows he has appeared in, he seemed to be genuine and not there just for his own gain.

"Where would Martin Luther King be without cameras?" Brooks Brown, No Easy Answers.

What was the context of that comment?
I don't see what that has to do about Judy's comments on Sue, or Brooks being genuinely devastated about his close friends killing people, some of whom he was friends with himself.
Unlike his mother who's claim to fame is being an acquaintance of Sue, whom never seemed to turn down a "look at me" moment.

It's obvious Sue's "hurricane" comment was a metaphor, probably about how fast everything happened, and the large amount of damage left in it's wake.

If memory serves me, (it's been a decade since I last read the book), Brooks said that to a friend in his campaign for gun control. I added that quote because I thought Brooks' initiative admirable (and courageous), given that his two friends committed this horrific tragedy. It wasn't meant to insinuate that Brooks used the Columbine tragedy for his own personal gain: quite the opposite.

jada887 wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

jada887 wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

Brooks is far from perfect, but in all the interviews and shows he has appeared in, he seemed to be genuine and not there just for his own gain.

"Where would Martin Luther King be without cameras?" Brooks Brown, No Easy Answers.

What was the context of that comment?
I don't see what that has to do about Judy's comments on Sue, or Brooks being genuinely devastated about his close friends killing people, some of whom he was friends with himself.
Unlike his mother who's claim to fame is being an acquaintance of Sue, whom never seemed to turn down a "look at me" moment.

It's obvious Sue's "hurricane" comment was a metaphor, probably about how fast everything happened, and the large amount of damage left in it's wake.

If memory serves me, (it's been a decade since I last read the book), Brooks said that to a friend in his campaign for gun control. I added that quote because I thought Brooks' initiative admirable (and courageous), given that his two friends committed this horrific tragedy. It wasn't meant to insinuate that Brooks used the Columbine tragedy for his own personal gain: quite the opposite.

That makes sense, and I totally agree with you.