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 Why enter the library?

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gyro




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PostSubject: Re: Why enter the library?   Why enter the library? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Apr 10, 2019 2:47 am

cakeman wrote:
Research into the bombs is not something I've really done as much as try to infer what I can by reconciling what seem like contradictions in the story. Would they have expected to hear them up by the stairs? If not, then they probably thought they had gone off already when they began shooting. If so, then they probably thought they would in the next minute. And would glass and flame have been shot out into the parking lot, and how far? If as far as their cars, then all the worse for the "plan B" narrative which already collapses when you realize they thought bombs were still part of the plan while in the library.

They should've been able to hear it had it gone off. In the videos I had seen of propane bombs exploding, they varied in size. So there's a possibility it would've destroyed the windows but I don't think it would've reached their cars.

cakeman wrote:
Also supposedly the fire truck got stuck in the mud or they were going to use it to breach the west entrance in case doing so triggered a bomb, the fire truck full of water would take most of it. If that's true, another reason why I think the "ye olde police protocol" stuff is hogwash.

I don't think the fire truck would be there in the first place, if the bombs had gone off and they started shooting from the west entrance. But yes, in saying that it's true. Remember one bomb partially exploded but it was quickly extinguished by the sprinklers
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cakeman

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PostSubject: Re: Why enter the library?   Why enter the library? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Apr 10, 2019 7:31 am

FWIW, supposedly nothing partially exploded, just the gas in the gas can attached to the bomb was lit. Can see the charred gas can in the photo.

Not talking about the cafeteria bombs with the fire truck. The cops didn't know the main bombs were in the cafeteria until 2 days later. Had they known, they never would have gone in there. The cafeteria bombs weren't triggered by the west entrance doors, they were triggered by timers. The fire truck was because they feared pipe bombs or similar would be triggered by the west entrance doors, as I recall.
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PostSubject: Re: Why enter the library?   Why enter the library? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Apr 10, 2019 2:13 pm

cakeman wrote:
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This curious bit about the diversion makes a lot more sense now, doesn't it?

"  The examination of the diversionary devices by bomb technicians provided immediate critical information about the sophistication of the devices and the possibility of motion activators attached to the bombs.  That information was relayed to the command post, the SWAT teams and the bomb technicians responding to the scene at the high school."

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Never made sense to just hope people would walk by. Makes perfect sense if that's the second of the two diversions.

Also seems another slip of the tongue that police staying outside wasn't about hostages and protocol, but about fear that the school explodes when you enter, which makes a lot more sense.

Yeah, it jives with the idea of them wiring the bombs differently to get more people. Max casualties and all that.

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PostSubject: Re: Why enter the library?   Why enter the library? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Apr 10, 2019 6:40 pm

QuestionMark wrote:
cakeman wrote:
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This curious bit about the diversion makes a lot more sense now, doesn't it?

"  The examination of the diversionary devices by bomb technicians provided immediate critical information about the sophistication of the devices and the possibility of motion activators attached to the bombs.  That information was relayed to the command post, the SWAT teams and the bomb technicians responding to the scene at the high school."

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Never made sense to just hope people would walk by. Makes perfect sense if that's the second of the two diversions.

Also seems another slip of the tongue that police staying outside wasn't about hostages and protocol, but about fear that the school explodes when you enter, which makes a lot more sense.

Yeah, it jives with the idea of them wiring the bombs differently to get more people. Max casualties and all that.
I should also throw in Daniel Mauser trying to stop Eric, if he indeed did so. A bizarre decision at that moment according to the usual story, but not if what they said clued him in to that being the moment when it was die in the explosion or do something.

Also the "still with me?" heard by Kreutz. Krabbe makes that when they enter the second time and about the suicide to have it make sense to him, but that's not what Kreutz says. It makes sense if they were gonna die at 11:35 when the library exploded.
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PostSubject: Re: Why enter the library?   Why enter the library? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Apr 20, 2019 12:02 pm

One more thing. Dylan's quote: It will be "the most nerve-racking 15 minutes of my life, after the bombs are set and we're waiting to charge through the school. Seconds will be like hours. I can't wait. I'll be shaking like a leaf."

I've speculated before this meant 15 minutes of shooting people until they turn around, which then causes them to enter the west entrance and cut off their escape. I still think that might be the case, but now it makes a lot more sense. The first bomb was 11:20, the second bomb was 11:35. The most nerve-racking 15 minutes of my life. Also seems to suggest they may have meant the second bomb to kill them all along.
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PostSubject: Re: Why enter the library?   Why enter the library? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Apr 20, 2019 8:16 pm

I read its that they wanted to watch the car bombs they set detonate, and the library being on the second floor and covered in windows, it would've been a prime place to see. Also it wouldve been the most densley populated area after the cafeteria. But the fact that they went there to kill conflicts the udea they let many people live so i might suggest that it was recently done up in 1996, eric and dylan hating the school wanted to hit the school hard financially, i think i read it was a multi million do up of the school, so wanted to cause damage to the most school property as possible, there were books, computers, etc, dylan slammed a chair on the table above patty nielson, so maybe it was to cause damage, but i think it was more spontaneous than premeditated - they were expecting it to collapse and i doubt they were ready for it not to

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PostSubject: Re: Why enter the library?   Why enter the library? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Apr 21, 2019 1:43 am

arg wrote:
I read its that they wanted to watch the  car bombs they set detonate, and the library being on the second floor and covered in windows, it would've been  a prime place to see. Also it wouldve been the most densley populated area after the cafeteria. But the fact that they went there to kill conflicts the udea they let many people live so i might suggest that it was recently done up in 1996, eric and dylan hating the school wanted to hit the school hard financially, i think i read it was a multi million do up of the school, so wanted to cause damage to the most school property as possible, there were books, computers, etc, dylan slammed a chair on the table above patty nielson, so maybe it was to cause damage, but i think it was more spontaneous than premeditated - they were expecting it to collapse and i doubt they were ready for it not to

Watching the car bombs is probably the best guess for why they return to the library, before committing suicide. At least one of them was set for noon. I'm not sure that makes much sense for why they enter the first time.

They killed the majority of their victims in the library, obviously. I don't see the conflict. I think again you like many others are missing the crucial aspect that they said probably ten times that the library was going to explode - which also means that they began shooting outside "when the bombs failed" is nonsense. They definitely thought everybody in the library was going to die. The first person they let live - or rather, don't shoot - in the library is Bree, and Eric is very clear why. Because she will die when the library explodes anyway. Only when Dylan spares Evan at the end is it mentioned he will live, and not die in the explosion.

Consider that they didn't have two bombs needlessly go off at the same time, but one set later, for 11:35, and tell me that doesn't resolve the conflict. When they enter at 11:29, they are going to try and kill everybody in the library by shooting a bunch and then having the rest die in the explosion, and probably kill themselves as well, and maybe if the police rush in they will also die. Bree you're gonna die in the explosion. John, you better run if you want to live.   When 11:35 rolls around, curses, we better get to the commons, shooting people with no explosions is boring, and there's nothing stopping the cops, and we are supposed to be dead by now.

Hitting the school financially is interesting and possible, but I find it hard to believe as a conscious goal. I have to think it had more to do with hitting the part with the most people and the front facing part of the school for tv cameras etc, and that those are just the likely places for renovations.

Jerald Block finds the computers and Dylan hitting the desk with a chair and so forth relevant. He thinks they resented being isolated computer nerds, and that's why the first people they kill are at the computers. I doubt this, but it's an interesting thought. Presumably if it were true, the plan would have always been to have entered the library, but that doesn't seem the case.

That it was the most densely populated area after the cafeteria, and above the cafeteria so they expected it to collapse, are big ones. Consider that they told people to get up and run, and almost everybody agrees it was to shoot them.  While likely true, that's not quite good enough an explanation. A real shame people focused on what they said about jocks and God and blacks ten times more than they focused on saying the library will explode and telling people to get up.  This seems the real "plan B'. They couldn't shoot people fleeing the cafeteria after the first bomb, so they shoot people fleeing the library before the second bomb. Since they were standing in the library, they couldn't do it after the second bomb, they'd be dead, but this also meant nobody had any reason to run. Still they tried to tell them they should because they had a bomb.

Also considering all the people they just missed out in the hall way, I wonder if people had just ran out the library entrance how many would have made it anyway. They were not blocking their path, standing in the entrance, as is usually depicted, but over by the computers and windows.
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