| Kathy Harris sabotaged Eric’s chances at becoming a marine? | |
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+4LadyStardust Screamingophelia Lizpuff Rebbie556 8 posters |
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Rebbie556
Posts : 475 Contribution Points : 91281 Forum Reputation : 225 Join date : 2017-01-30
| Subject: Kathy Harris sabotaged Eric’s chances at becoming a marine? Thu May 09, 2019 10:08 am | |
| According to the book Columbine: A True Crime Story by Jeff Kass Kathy Harris, the mother of Eric Harris, one of the Columbine shooters, may have squandered Eric’s chances at being a marine. Eric was being recruited by Sgt. Mark Gonzales in early April of 1999. Gonzales had gotten Eric’s name from a list of high school students that he had access to through his job. He called the Harris home on Friday, April 2nd, where he spoke to Eric, who expressed an interest in joining the marines. After a brief phone interview, Gonzales scheduled an interview with Eric on Monday, April 5th, at 1:00pm at the local recruiting office. Eric had two individual meetings with Gonzales, both of which went well. A meeting was setup at the Harris house, where Gonzales had a meeting with the Harris family to answer any questions they may have. During the interview, Gonzales noted “Mom (referring to Kathy Harris) wasn’t too keen on combat-related jobs”. Gonzales told her that “it’d be Eric’s choice and there would be lots of other jobs to chose from.”, though knowing her son, I’m sure Kathy wasn’t confident that Eric would chose a non combat-related job. Below is an excerpt from “Columbine: A True Crime Story by Jeff Kass” regarding Kathy’s conversation with Gonzales. “Gonzales was there about a half hour. He was getting ready to leave when Katherine Harris left the room and came back with a prescription drug bottle. “What about this?” she asked. “What’s that?” Gonzales asked. Katherine Harris said it was Luvox. Gonzales had never heard of it before. He asked if it was like Ritalin or Prozac, which he classified as mood-altering drugs and therefore a disqualifying factor for the Marines. She said it was.
“We got a problem,” Gonzales said, and explained to them that recruits cannot be on any prescription drug, even penicillin. For more serious drugs such as Ritalin, recruits had to be off the drug for a year.” As you can see, Eric was on his way to becoming a marine, before his mother showed recruiter Mike Gonzales a bottle of prescription medication that Eric was taking. I don’t believe that she had malicious intents when showing the Sgt. Eric’s medication, but I do believe that she was aware that it would keep Eric out of the marines for at least another year. Below is another excerpt from Jeff Kass’s book on Columbine. “If the meeting had gone well, the plan was for Eric to do some more screening then sign up on Saturday the 17th, take a physical exam, and be sworn in at the federal courthouse in downtown Denver (where the Columbine lawsuits would later be heard). Instead, Gonzales went to his car and called his boss on the cell phone. Eric Harris wasn’t going to be a player, he said.”
Eric would have been accepted as a recruit, but Kathy showing Gonzales Eric’s medication squandered those chances. I believe that Kathy did this out of love for Eric, she didn’t want him in combat because of her worry for his safety. With her husband being in the military, and her knowledge of her son’s desire to be, I’m confident that Kathy was fully aware of the result of showing Gonzales her son’s prescription would have. Perhaps it was a mother’s intuition, she didn’t believe that her son should serve out of concern for his safety, or that of others, but until she brought that bottle of pills to Gonzales, Eric was on track to becoming a marine. | |
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Lizpuff
Posts : 2677 Contribution Points : 95424 Forum Reputation : 1190 Join date : 2016-03-02 Age : 36
| Subject: Re: Kathy Harris sabotaged Eric’s chances at becoming a marine? Thu May 09, 2019 10:18 am | |
| I don't think she showed it to be malicious, just to be transparent. It sounds like the recruiter asked Eric if he was on any medications and she knew that he was and wanted to show it so that it was out in the open.
Even if she had not shown the medicine it would have showed up in his blood. So if he lied and tried to get past the question it would have been found out anyway. _________________ Hold me now I need to feel complete Like I matter to the one I need
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Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6417 Contribution Points : 192899 Forum Reputation : 1317 Join date : 2017-08-25 Age : 42
| Subject: Re: Kathy Harris sabotaged Eric’s chances at becoming a marine? Thu May 09, 2019 10:20 am | |
| But I always have to wonder. Was he really on track to becoming one or was it a cover? Because in February 1999 Dylan had said Eric was just going to go to community college and that Marines fell through
I think that Dylan’s cover was worse .. letting his family take him all the way to Arizona _________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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Lizpuff
Posts : 2677 Contribution Points : 95424 Forum Reputation : 1190 Join date : 2016-03-02 Age : 36
| Subject: Re: Kathy Harris sabotaged Eric’s chances at becoming a marine? Thu May 09, 2019 10:22 am | |
| - Screamingophelia wrote:
- But I always have to wonder. Was he really on track to becoming one or was it a cover? Because in February 1999 Dylan had said Eric was just going to go to community college and that Marines fell through
I think that Dylan’s cover was worse .. letting his family take him all the way to Arizona It has always been said that Eric never got the message about his denial into the Marines. I think Eric knew the second his mom brought out his meds that he would be denied. Thus he started telling people he was denied into the Marines. I think his community college was completely a cover. AFAIK he never did anything to try to get into any schools or take any classes. _________________ Hold me now I need to feel complete Like I matter to the one I need
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LadyStardust
Posts : 167 Contribution Points : 50592 Forum Reputation : 387 Join date : 2019-04-02
| Subject: Re: Kathy Harris sabotaged Eric’s chances at becoming a marine? Thu May 09, 2019 10:23 am | |
| What do you think would happen if the recruiter had said the meds were no problem? Let's sign you up? Would anything have changed? | |
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Lizpuff
Posts : 2677 Contribution Points : 95424 Forum Reputation : 1190 Join date : 2016-03-02 Age : 36
| Subject: Re: Kathy Harris sabotaged Eric’s chances at becoming a marine? Thu May 09, 2019 10:26 am | |
| - LadyStardust wrote:
- What do you think would happen if the recruiter had said the meds were no problem? Let's sign you up? Would anything have changed?
I don't think it would have changed NBK. No way of really knowing but they were so far along by the point the recruiter came that I think he was just going thru the motions to make things seem normal _________________ Hold me now I need to feel complete Like I matter to the one I need
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Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6417 Contribution Points : 192899 Forum Reputation : 1317 Join date : 2017-08-25 Age : 42
| Subject: Re: Kathy Harris sabotaged Eric’s chances at becoming a marine? Thu May 09, 2019 10:35 am | |
| I think before they got the guns one of Could’ve been talked out of it...Maybe something really good that happened and they would say oh I want to live and I want to have a life
After that though they were so far gone and had tangible things to show them that this was real and they were going to go through with it.
Just for discussion purposes which one do you think could’ve been swayed easier? _________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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LadyStardust
Posts : 167 Contribution Points : 50592 Forum Reputation : 387 Join date : 2019-04-02
| Subject: Re: Kathy Harris sabotaged Eric’s chances at becoming a marine? Thu May 09, 2019 10:39 am | |
| Eric. I don't think he wanted to die as badly. If the recruiter had told him (earlier, before the guns, as you pointed out) that he was accepted and he would get a gun and get to work on bombs, then maybe, yes, he could have been swayed. If Eric had fallen in love with a real girl (not a Brandi) then maybe, yes, he would have something to live for. Finally, if Eric had been taken off the SSRI and seen a proper psychologist, then yes, he could have been swayed.
Dylan, IDK. He needed help for his depression. He needed meds. That's the only way for him to have been helped. | |
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Lizpuff
Posts : 2677 Contribution Points : 95424 Forum Reputation : 1190 Join date : 2016-03-02 Age : 36
| Subject: Re: Kathy Harris sabotaged Eric’s chances at becoming a marine? Thu May 09, 2019 10:40 am | |
| - Screamingophelia wrote:
- I think before they got the guns one of Could’ve been talked out of it...Maybe something really good that happened and they would say oh I want to live and I want to have a life
After that though they were so far gone and had tangible things to show them that this was real and they were going to go through with it.
Just for discussion purposes which one do you think could’ve been swayed easier? That is a tough one. I think if you swayed Dylan out of it he would have killed himself at a later date. I know everyone wants to think that if Dylan found a gf he would have not done it but I don't think that way. Maybe Eric? IDK I will have to think more about it. Interested to hear other opinions _________________ Hold me now I need to feel complete Like I matter to the one I need
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Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6417 Contribution Points : 192899 Forum Reputation : 1317 Join date : 2017-08-25 Age : 42
| Subject: Re: Kathy Harris sabotaged Eric’s chances at becoming a marine? Thu May 09, 2019 10:51 am | |
| I think the Dylan’s issues ran a lot deeper. So I think he needed a lot more help. I think if you focused Eric more you might be able to sway him.
Then again, we don’t really know how manipulative Eric was? Was he really charismatic or was he just a polite teenager and everyone was like oh he’s a nice young man let’s let him get away with whatever. He gets A’s and says please and thank you _________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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slippy123
Posts : 879 Contribution Points : 104663 Forum Reputation : 1235 Join date : 2015-08-25
| Subject: Re: Kathy Harris sabotaged Eric’s chances at becoming a marine? Thu May 09, 2019 11:16 am | |
| I feel like its possible that Eric only wanted to pursue the Marines because of pressure from his father, or just for a reason to get his parents off of his case.
I don't think Eric being accepted or not would of changed the outcome of NBK or his life in general. | |
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Rebbie556
Posts : 475 Contribution Points : 91281 Forum Reputation : 225 Join date : 2017-01-30
| Subject: Re: Kathy Harris sabotaged Eric’s chances at becoming a marine? Thu May 09, 2019 2:03 pm | |
| Could be since he said he felt like he disappointed his dad. It was probably parent's thing same goes for baseball .I mean the way he looked at the little league picture (not amused lol). I mean he had A's almost everywhere my parents would throw a party for that lol. the pressure started from moving around was too much (I can see why he was grumpy kid) and there's school with grades .
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Kathy Harris sabotaged Eric’s chances at becoming a marine? Thu May 09, 2019 3:32 pm | |
| I have to agree with what has been said above, I don't think his mother would have intentionally squashed his chances. It wouldn't really make any sense for her to intentionally squash it. Her husband served and it makes sense they would both want Eric to. Now, I do question whether Eric actually wanted to join the Marines or if it was pressure he felt from his father.
I don't think Eric getting accepted or declined would change anything. NBK was going to happen either way. Yet, I don't think the whole Marines thing was a cover. I think Eric was likely just trying to please his parents. |
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W.A.R.
Posts : 582 Contribution Points : 69573 Forum Reputation : 345 Join date : 2017-03-11
| Subject: Re: Kathy Harris sabotaged Eric’s chances at becoming a marine? Thu May 09, 2019 6:03 pm | |
| They would have eventually found out about the Luvox regardless, but it does sound to me like she did it on purpose.
Did this have any impact on NBK? probably not. | |
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Rebbie556
Posts : 475 Contribution Points : 91281 Forum Reputation : 225 Join date : 2017-01-30
| Subject: Re: Kathy Harris sabotaged Eric’s chances at becoming a marine? Thu May 09, 2019 6:47 pm | |
| Let's say he would be accepted to marines. Do you think he would've become the next Time McVeigh?
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slippy123
Posts : 879 Contribution Points : 104663 Forum Reputation : 1235 Join date : 2015-08-25
| Subject: Re: Kathy Harris sabotaged Eric’s chances at becoming a marine? Thu May 09, 2019 9:30 pm | |
| - Rebbie556 wrote:
- Let's say he would be accepted to marines.
Do you think he would've become the next Time McVeigh?
No, because the evidence shows that NBK was going to happen regardless of whether he was accepted or not. Evidence also shows that he didn't really want to be the next anybody, he wanted to kick start his own revolution so to speak. I will say that Eric most likely took inspiration from Timothy McVeigh, as he was well aware of him and mentioned the bombing in the basement tapes. “It’ll be like the LA riots, the Oklahoma bombing, WWII, Vietnam, Duke and Doom all mixed together. ... I want to leave a lasting impression on the world,” Based off that statement, it appears that Eric took inspiration from many different situations, and wanted to mold them into his own massacre. | |
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thelmar
Posts : 760 Contribution Points : 82007 Forum Reputation : 3068 Join date : 2018-07-15
| Subject: Re: Kathy Harris sabotaged Eric’s chances at becoming a marine? Thu May 09, 2019 9:54 pm | |
| I don't think he had any intention of joining the Marines. As mentioned in the OP, the recruiter pursued Eric, not the other way around. The recruiter pushed for the meeting with him and for the meeting with his parents. I think to Eric it just provided good cover to get his parents off his back in the final days before NBK. The meeting at the Harris home took place on April 15th. NBK was basically a done deal by then. I'm also in the camp that Kathy showing the recruiter the Luvox was not done maliciously. Her husband was in the service and Kevin joined the service after college, so it doesn't make a lot of sense that she would have tried to keep Eric out. I think she did it in the interest of full disclosure and nothing else. Edited to add: I also think it's interesting that it seems the majority feels that of the two, Eric was the one more likely to have been turned around if the right motivation had come his way. I agree with this. I'm guessing Cullen would not | |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Kathy Harris sabotaged Eric’s chances at becoming a marine? Tue May 14, 2019 10:25 pm | |
| There’s a lot of questions posed here. So I’ll start with did Kathy show his meds on purpose? It looks like I’m the only one torn on this. She would know that being on that medicine would disqualify him. I mean, her husband had been in the service for a long time. If his dad wanted him to follow in his footsteps I’m sure that had to of come up in some sort of family convo when he was placed on the meds. (Obviously there’s no proof to this, I’m speculating). I don’t think she showed it to be mean, but I’m wondering if deep down she didn’t want her baby to go. Also, his pectis excavatum would have disqualified him, am I right? The whole family knew he had that and it was not corrected as it should have. Would Eric have changed his mind if accepted? No. I don’t think so. I bet he’d sign his papers and go through the motions as a ruse. Gonzalez had said they agreed if he was accepted he would wait until after graduation for swearing in and boot camp. If someone could have been swayed who would it have been? I think that it would’ve been Eric. I honestly think if he was asked to “sit at the popular table” he would’ve dumped Dylan in a heartbeat. He wanted to be accepted and popular. He had friends (but in his eyes they weren’t “good enough” because if they were he’d not feel like an inferior person and have to make himself “godlike”). |
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Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6417 Contribution Points : 192899 Forum Reputation : 1317 Join date : 2017-08-25 Age : 42
| Subject: Re: Kathy Harris sabotaged Eric’s chances at becoming a marine? Tue May 14, 2019 11:07 pm | |
| - SenSpiritedAway wrote:
If someone could have been swayed who would it have been? I think that it would’ve been Eric. I honestly think if he was asked to “sit at the popular table” he would’ve dumped Dylan in a heartbeat. He wanted to be accepted and popular. He had friends (but in his eyes they weren’t “good enough” because if they were he’d not feel like an inferior person and have to make himself “godlike”). This is a good point and something I never thought of. Since Dylan's friendships are usually the ones looked at. We hear "Dylan had friends." and in A Mother's Reckoning Sue said Kathy didn't want to split up Eric's main friendship. However Eric seemed to have separate friends that were closer to Eric than Dylan. I feel like Chris Morris was closer, then Alyssa, Kristi and Susan for example. Dylan always was the one who seemed to not want to let anyone down and wouldn't abandon you. However, I still think there was a part closer to the massacre where Eric wouldn't abandon Dylan since I think they were in it until the end and that is that. _________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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lol
Posts : 418 Contribution Points : 102022 Forum Reputation : 325 Join date : 2013-07-26
| Subject: Re: Kathy Harris sabotaged Eric’s chances at becoming a marine? Sun May 19, 2019 1:44 pm | |
| Eric committed a felony, and not to mention the felony wasn't even more than a year old + the kid was on medications. He had no chances of becoming a Marine. Once the Marines would conduct a background check on him, they would find out a year prior he was arrested for burglary, and the original charge was a felony. Now even if the charges eventually get dropped it stood on their record unless they had an attorney to expunge them (which they didn't).
Your juvenile records don't just vanish when you're 18. Eric never had a chance of becoming a Marine. | |
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W.A.R.
Posts : 582 Contribution Points : 69573 Forum Reputation : 345 Join date : 2017-03-11
| Subject: Re: Kathy Harris sabotaged Eric’s chances at becoming a marine? Mon May 20, 2019 5:48 pm | |
| I think he would have had a chance in 2001 or 2003. | |
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