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 Nixon tapes

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dereknocturnal




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PostSubject: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeSun May 26, 2019 7:15 am

I'm sorry if this question has been asked and answered before but I haven't found the answers yet. Randy Brown said Eric listed his reasons for the killings on the Nixon tapes the night before the massacre. Does anyone know what Eric said on those tapes? I believe he recorded the tape at 2am of the 20th. Eric alone speaking into a recorder seems like it would be the most authentic of feelings coming from him as it was basically his last message outside of the goodbye messages before they left for the school.
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeSun May 26, 2019 8:28 am

Evidence Item [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Item [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] is a micro cassette player containing a cassette tape. It was retrieved from the kitchen table inside the Harris residence on 4/20/99.

Recorded April 19/ 20th 1999

The micro cassette player and tape was labeled “Nixon.” The voice on the beginning of the tape appears to be that of Eric Harris. On the micro cassette tape the male voice indicates reason why these things are happening and states it will happen in “less than nine hours now.” He goes on to say, “People will die because of me,” and “It will be a day that will be remembered forever.” This portion of the tape only lasts a few moments.

After that there appears to be a discussion between numerous individuals, including a male voice which appears to have an oriental accent.


AFAIK, "Nixon" was a student from Singapore that Eric was interviewing for a school project. That's what the tape was about originally. Eric taped over it before the shooting. The tape has since been destroyed.
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeSun May 26, 2019 5:38 pm

Appreciate the response, I was actually more curious about this "damning" information Randy Brown speaks of, he doesn't goes in to detail but he did mention on his YouTube channel that the Nixon tapes were more damning than the actual basement tapes. Even Sue Klebold mentioned the basement tapes were mostly posturing meaning she thought most of the on camera material may have been true feelings I don't deny that but that the basement tapes most likely were played up to shock the audience, the audience that unfortunately never got to view them. "On the micro cassette tape the male voice indicates reasons why these things are happening" why did they hide these "reasons" and why are the reasons damning?
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeSun May 26, 2019 5:52 pm

I too have been curious as to the “reasons” why. The report seems so sure that it is the reason why, but doesn’t give us any info on it. I’m afraid it may be another one of those mysteries of this case that we may never learn. Personally, I feel it was irresponsible to destroy all these tapes.
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeSun May 26, 2019 7:49 pm

Agreed fully. They destroyed those tapes to cover their own asses I truly believe that, but the question we all wanted answers to is WHY did they need to cover their ass? If the basement tapes were just Eric and Dylan bitching about their school, and hating the people who wronged them. Well the police wouldn't have a problem releasing that right? Most teens have similar feelings, but most don't take weapons to their school and exact revenge on the property and its inhabitants so it's just a mystery why the authorities were so persistent on keeping these items hidden and ultimately destroyed. What were Eric's reasons for the killings??? What were Eric's true internal emotions on why he was intent on making NBK become reality? I guess we will never know for sure, sad state of humanity when answers are hidden "legally" by other humans.
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeSun May 26, 2019 8:04 pm

They like to say they didn’t release them and destroyed them because they didn’t want copycats. Unfortunately, there have been copycats despite not releasing them. If those tapes could help one set of parents, or one school teacher, or even just one friend of someone who may be planning something like this, than it’s worth it to show the public the tapes. I feel like the US keeps saying “We won’t let this happen again. We will be strong. Good triumphs evil” but we aren’t talking about the signs and symptoms these kids emanate. Educating the public of possible shooter symptoms and giving people the mental health care they need should be the first defense.
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeSun May 26, 2019 9:23 pm

Wow! I love your comment. So fucking true! Every time a shooting happens it's let's ban guns! They never want to focus on what makes the human being pick up the gun to go shoot people so they can release all the tension that has been building inside of them. The gun is just the easiest weapon to pick up for these people to release their anger, I don't want to get into political shit but the statement is true that people kill people guns don't kill people. We need to be asking WHY people feel the need to kill other people? Even if its people they never knew or had never done them wrong. WHY do they need the release of killing other people. Eric and Dylan obviously got that experience and felt it was enough after 13 people (they might have felt it was more figuring in the limp bodies that were just injured). Eric and Dylan could've killed many more but they didn't, even after Eric's writings talking about wanting to kill a whole city! he was done after 10 casualties in the library and a few more outside. I don't think it makes you deranged or demented to wonder and question these kinds of events in history, people want to know!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeSun May 26, 2019 10:38 pm

dereknocturnal wrote:
Wow! I love your comment. So fucking true! Every time a shooting happens it's let's ban guns! They never want to focus on what makes the human being pick up the gun to go shoot people so they can release all the tension that has been building inside of them. The gun is just the easiest weapon to pick up for these people to release their anger, I don't want to get into political shit but the statement is true that people kill people guns don't kill people. We need to be asking WHY people feel the need to kill other people? Even if its people they never knew or had never done them wrong. WHY do they need the release of killing other people. Eric and Dylan obviously got that experience and felt it was enough after 13 people (they might have felt it was more figuring in the limp bodies that were just injured). Eric and Dylan could've killed many more but they didn't, even after Eric's writings talking about wanting to kill a whole city! he was done after 10 casualties in the library and a few more outside. I don't think it makes you deranged or demented to wonder and question these kinds of events in history, people want to know!!!!
I think what people don't realize is Eric and Dylan probably thought all the people they shout at were killed. If I blow a kid's jaw off at point blank range with a shotgun, do you possibly think as the killer you will assume he lived? They shot almost 50 people. They definitely they killed the majority of them. Imagine the look on their faces when they realized they only killed 13.

"Fuck. We sucked even in shooting."


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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeSun May 26, 2019 10:57 pm

Good point. I wonder if they really thought they killed every person they shot. There’s def defeat seen on cctv in the commons when their bombs didn’t detonate. Just dejectedly staring at the propane tanks.
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeMon May 27, 2019 1:14 am

The cafeteria footage is something isn't it? Eric with his shotgun pointed downward on his side looking at the lack of devastation you can almost feel his disappointment, I feel like Eric was the most upset at the lack of explosion on 4/20 Dylan tried to set things on fire with his Molotov cocktail but it seemed to be a half ass attempt.Eric kneeled down and shot at those damn things time after time and nothing happened, and the next time they were captured on camera Eric looked dejected, that may be my own singularly experience in watching the footage but that's what I came away with. Eric was absolutely done at noon and ready to leave this world when he came to the conclusion that his propane bombs were not reacting in the way he had hoped. I'm not surprised in the least that Eric went first though I 'am somewhat surprised there was no report of either teen saying like "We did it man we went NBK, see you in the afterworld." the fact that Eric would just sit down and peace out is somewhat shocking to be honest


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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeMon May 27, 2019 10:47 am

SenSpiritedAway wrote:
They like to say they didn’t release them and destroyed them because they didn’t want copycats. Unfortunately, there have been copycats despite not releasing them. If those tapes could help one set of parents, or one school teacher, or even just one friend of someone who may be planning something like this, than it’s worth it to show the public the tapes. I feel like the US keeps saying “We won’t let this happen again. We will be strong. Good triumphs evil” but we aren’t talking about the signs and symptoms these kids emanate. Educating the public of possible shooter symptoms and giving people the mental health care they need should be the first defense.

The things that they released wouldn't illicit copy cats but it sure humanized Eric and Dylan... if they didn't want people to relate to them or think they were just two angry boys who lost their way and became murderers they probably shouldn't have released tapes of them laughing with friends, yelling at laundry and just being teenage boys.

I also think the suicide picture leak did the opposite. No one who looked at that thought "oh I better no go down that path" but probably garnered them and their family and friends more empathy.

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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeMon May 27, 2019 10:50 am

dereknocturnal wrote:
Appreciate the response, I was actually more curious about this "damning" information Randy Brown speaks of, he doesn't goes in to detail but he did mention on his YouTube channel that the Nixon tapes were more damning than the actual basement tapes. Even Sue Klebold mentioned the basement tapes were mostly posturing meaning she thought most of the on camera material may have been true feelings I don't deny that but that the basement tapes most likely were played up to shock the audience, the audience that unfortunately never got to view them. "On the micro cassette tape the male voice indicates reasons why these things are happening" why did they hide these "reasons" and why are the reasons damning?

I have always wondered if more things happened with the police to make them want so much revenge. I don't believe the butt rape theory... but if they detailed why they did it and that made Jeffco want to destroy the tapes, what was on them?

I wish Randy would speak more on it except for dangling the damn information carrot in front of us.


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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeMon May 27, 2019 1:03 pm

sympathyforEandD wrote:
AFAIK, "Nixon" was a student from Singapore that Eric was interviewing for a school project. That's what the tape was about originally. Eric taped over it before the shooting. The tape has since been destroyed.

I always thought it was labeled Nixon as a joke - you know "The Nixon Tapes".
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeMon May 27, 2019 5:32 pm

dereknocturnal wrote:
Such great minds within this forum you all have made such great points. The cafeteria footage is something isn't it? Eric with his shotgun pointed downward on his side looking at the lack of devastation you can almost feel his disappointment, I feel like Eric was the most upset at the lack of explosion on 4/20 Dylan tried to set things on fire with his Molotov cocktail but it seemed to be a half ass attempt.Eric kneeled down and shot at those damn things time after time and nothing happened, and the next time they were captured on camera Eric looked dejected, that may be my own singularly experience in watching the footage but that's what I came away with. Eric was absolutely done at noon and ready to leave this world when he came to the conclusion that his propane bombs were not reacting in the way he had hoped. I'm not surprised in the least that Eric went first though I 'am somewhat surprised there was no report of either teen saying like "We did it man we went NBK, see you in the afterworld." the fact that Eric would just sit down and peace out is somewhat shocking to be honest
I really highly doubt that Eric or Dylan said anything to each other before they offed themselves. It would be too real to them. Probably just nodded at each other and then did it.
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeMon May 27, 2019 5:38 pm

I doubt they said anything to each other either. They both got what they wanted out of each other. (I guess maybe not Eric, he really did want to bomb the place to the ground). They did a shoot out with cops before they did it, maybe Eric was furious and just went and did it. The only person who would have any inkling of what may have transpired is Lisa, but she does not recall anything of the sort. It will forever be a mystery.
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeMon May 27, 2019 5:48 pm

Yes another mystery what were the emotions as he put that sawed off in his mouth. I wonder if Dylan seen Eric go, some things I've read think he had his back turned lighting off the final cocktail. Just another in a myriad of Columbine questions that will never be answered.
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeMon May 27, 2019 5:52 pm

dereknocturnal wrote:
Yes another mystery what were the emotions as he put that sawed off in his mouth. I wonder if Dylan seen Eric go, some things I've read think he had his back turned lighting off the final cocktail. Just another in a myriad of Columbine questions that will never be answered.
We may never know, but I'm happy to know that Eric may have died feeling like a failure. Good riddance.

Pretty sure Dylan may have saw Eric blow his brains out. He probably thought "Oh fuck. He actually did it." And killed himself a few seconds after.
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeMon May 27, 2019 5:55 pm

W.A.R. wrote:
sympathyforEandD wrote:
AFAIK, "Nixon" was a student from Singapore that Eric was interviewing for a school project. That's what the tape was about originally. Eric taped over it before the shooting. The tape has since been destroyed.

I always thought it was labeled Nixon as a joke - you know "The Nixon Tapes".

Eric's report on Singapore and his interview with Nixon can be found on pgs. 26659- 26663, there's a duplicate (formatting is different) on pgs. 26664- 26668
It says Nixon was 28 and training for a job at Gates Rubber Co.
[In 2003, the Gates Rubber Co. changed its name to the Gates Corporation]
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeMon May 27, 2019 7:22 pm

lol wrote:
dereknocturnal wrote:
Yes another mystery what were the emotions as he put that sawed off in his mouth. I wonder if Dylan seen Eric go, some things I've read think he had his back turned lighting off the final cocktail. Just another in a myriad of Columbine questions that will never be answered.
We may never know, but I'm happy to know that Eric may have died feeling like a failure. Good riddance.

Pretty sure Dylan may have saw Eric blow his brains out. He probably thought "Oh fuck. He actually did it." And killed himself a few seconds after.

It always made me think about Lisa Kruetz and what she heard as Eric and Dylan came into the library the second time. "Are you still with me?" I always assumed it was Dylan to Eric asking about suicide.

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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeMon May 27, 2019 7:28 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
lol wrote:
dereknocturnal wrote:
Yes another mystery what were the emotions as he put that sawed off in his mouth. I wonder if Dylan seen Eric go, some things I've read think he had his back turned lighting off the final cocktail. Just another in a myriad of Columbine questions that will never be answered.
We may never know, but I'm happy to know that Eric may have died feeling like a failure. Good riddance.

Pretty sure Dylan may have saw Eric blow his brains out. He probably thought "Oh fuck. He actually did it." And killed himself a few seconds after.

It always made me think about Lisa Kruetz and what she heard as Eric and Dylan came into the library the second time. "Are you still with me?" I always assumed it was Dylan to Eric asking about suicide.
Its probably a way of saying "are we still going through with this" or "are you still planning on dying with me?"
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeTue May 28, 2019 5:49 am

IIRC Lisa Kreutz supposedly heard that the first time they entered the library.
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeTue May 28, 2019 6:13 pm

Could it have been Dylan since Eric may have been kind of out it due the pain in his nose really setting in and Dylan just wanted to make sure Eric still was aware of the deal. An injured nose can really mess with your thought and motor controls even though Eric looked pretty "with it" on the cafeteria footage its just a thought, I never knew the girl heard that? interesting. Was Patrick Ireland just too in and out of the world to notice or remember anything as they entered the second time? or the Kasey girl? did she remain in the library after her injury? I think she was the girl Eric quoted "Quit your bitching it's merely flesh wound."
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeTue May 28, 2019 7:01 pm

I assumed it was Dylan to Eric as well. I thought I read that “are you still with me” was said the first time in the library. I’d have to double check it but I do believe [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] is correct. Patrick was unconscious most of the time so he did not hear them when they came back. (Which is a shame since he would’ve been real close to them). Kasey was the girl Eric said that to but she left with the others after E&D exited the library. There’s been lots of back and forth in regards to how Eric acted with his nose. Bree claims he was wobbly and uneasy (she came face to face with him right after) but a few mins later John savage speaks with both Eric and Dylan and he never mentions Eric’s nose or even about it all bloody. An oversight? Maybe. I wouldn’t know how someone would feel after that happening nor would I know how long you’d feel stunned.
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeTue May 28, 2019 7:20 pm

"Are you with me? We're still going to do this right?"

If I recall I swear that is when they first get into the library. This had to be Eric. Especially since he's the first to say "GET UP!" to everyone in the library. Eric also shot way more than Dylan did when they were outside and kllled a few kids. Dylan barely fired his weapon at all. It's possible he felt a bit unhinged or maybe Eric was trying to reassure his friend. I don't know why.

Or it could've been Dylan asking Eric that because he may have been unhinged due to the fact that his bombs failed to blow and their plan was a mess now.

I really wish Lisa knew who said it. Their voices are very different from each other.

If it's the final time that Dylan and Eric went to the library I am extremely positive that was Dylan asking Eric if he's ready to commit suicide.


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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeTue May 28, 2019 7:53 pm

Here’s Lisa’s statement. It’s def the first time they enter but she can not pinpoint who said it. Others may have heard that too and now I’m curious if anyone says who they believe it may have been. Haven’t read it word for word in awhile. If I see anything more on it I’ll def post it. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeTue May 28, 2019 8:00 pm

SenSpiritedAway wrote:
Here’s Lisa’s statement. It’s def the first time they enter but she can not pinpoint who said it. Others may have heard that too and now I’m curious if anyone says who they believe it may have been. Haven’t read it word for word in awhile. If I see anything more on it I’ll def post it. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Thank you for that.

Yeah...definitely Eric asking Dylan. Dylan rarely shot his weapon prior to the library.
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeTue May 28, 2019 8:10 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
lol wrote:
dereknocturnal wrote:
Yes another mystery what were the emotions as he put that sawed off in his mouth. I wonder if Dylan seen Eric go, some things I've read think he had his back turned lighting off the final cocktail. Just another in a myriad of Columbine questions that will never be answered.
We may never know, but I'm happy to know that Eric may have died feeling like a failure. Good riddance.

Pretty sure Dylan may have saw Eric blow his brains out. He probably thought "Oh fuck. He actually did it." And killed himself a few seconds after.

It always made me think about Lisa Kruetz and what she heard as Eric and Dylan came into the library the second time. "Are you still with me?" I always assumed it was Dylan to Eric asking about suicide.

I honestly don't think those words were ever exchanged between the two of them. I don't think it fits with either of their personalities or mindsets on that day. Most likely explanation is that Lisa is mistaken.

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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeTue May 28, 2019 8:17 pm

Well......I’m currently looking into another question I have about the library which required me to re read Austin Eubanks statement. He said that Dylan entered first and Dylan was the one to shout “get up”. If I can run this in my head, Dylan enters first, he states “get up”, Eric fires down the length of the library counter hitting no one and then Dylan and Eric walk toward the windows and Dylan shoots Kyle. The 911 call picks up the “get up” but does it pick up anything that sounds like “are you with me”? I don’t recall that.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I think you are correct on that. It may have been something Lisa misunderstood or mistakenly reported.
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeTue May 28, 2019 8:45 pm

SenSpiritedAway wrote:
Here’s Lisa’s statement. It’s def the first time they enter but she can not pinpoint who said it. Others may have heard that too and now I’m curious if anyone says who they believe it may have been. Haven’t read it word for word in awhile. If I see anything more on it I’ll def post it. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


If it was said then I think it was Eric to Dylan.

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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeTue May 28, 2019 9:52 pm

Screamingophelia wrote:
SenSpiritedAway wrote:
Here’s Lisa’s statement. It’s def the first time they enter but she can not pinpoint who said it. Others may have heard that too and now I’m curious if anyone says who they believe it may have been. Haven’t read it word for word in awhile. If I see anything more on it I’ll def post it. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


If it was said then I think it was Eric to Dylan.

I always felt like it was Eric with the first audible "Get up" and it sounded like Eric saying "Get up right now" The only thing I thought I heard from Dylan was "Hey boy" then a shotgun blast so figured he said before he killed K.V but someone said Dylan didn't say "hey boy" So I personally never heard Dylan on the Patti 911 call. I wonder if Eric did wonder wtf is going on outside since Dylan wasn't shooting much and had to get his mind back in the game so to say.
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeThu May 30, 2019 9:15 pm

SenSpiritedAway wrote:
Well......I’m currently looking into another question I have about the library which required me to re read Austin Eubanks statement. He said that Dylan entered first and Dylan was the one to shout “get up”. If I can run this in my head, Dylan enters first, he states “get up”, Eric fires down the length of the library counter hitting no one and then Dylan and Eric walk toward the windows and Dylan shoots Kyle. The 911 call picks up the “get up”  but does it pick up anything that sounds like “are you with me”? I don’t recall that.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I think you are correct on that. It may have been something Lisa misunderstood or mistakenly reported.
With all respect to your post, I disagree. I've researched Columbine for more than a decade easily. Eric and Dylan sound extremely different. You can 100% tell the boys' voices apart. When they first get into the library Eric is the one that yells "GET UP!" Then about 10 seconds later you hear Dylan say "EVVEEERRYBODY GET UP...NOW!" on the tapes.

If Eric told Dylan "Are you with me? We're still going to do this right?" It was prior to them screaming and telling everyone to get up. There's no way the phones would've been able to pick up on that.

dereknocturnal wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
SenSpiritedAway wrote:
Here’s Lisa’s statement. It’s def the first time they enter but she can not pinpoint who said it. Others may have heard that too and now I’m curious if anyone says who they believe it may have been. Haven’t read it word for word in awhile. If I see anything more on it I’ll def post it. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


If it was said then I think it was Eric to Dylan.

I always felt like it was Eric with the first audible "Get up" and it sounded like Eric saying "Get up right now" The only thing I thought I heard from Dylan was "Hey boy" then a shotgun blast so figured he said before he killed K.V but someone said Dylan didn't say "hey boy" So I personally never heard Dylan on the Patti 911 call. I wonder if Eric did wonder wtf is going on outside since Dylan wasn't shooting much and had to get his mind back in the game so to say.
Eric did tell everyone to get up, and then Dylan yelled much louder and told everyone to get up now. "Hey Boy" was not from Eric or Dylan. They said "Hey Boyd". It sounded far too clear and I believe it was Officer Boyd that one of the dispatchers were talking to. Most of the things people apparently pick up in the released Columbine 911 tapes is imaginary. The brain can fool you extremely well. I've read comments on there where people say they can hear Eric say "Peek-a-boo" and shooting Cassie, or saying "Pigs are here" and start shooting at cops. None of this is remotely true. The released 911 call is very short as opposed to the actual full tape which was about 26 minutes in length.

The only kid that was killed in the 911 tapes that was released to the public was Kyle as he was killed a minute both Eric and Dylan entered the library. The extended 911 tape of an extra 30 seconds was Lauren Townshed being murdered by Klebold. Besides those two no one else on the 911 tapes were killed from the official released 911 tapes that we have now. And I hope it stays that away. I would never ever want to hear the full tape of these poor kids being murdered by fucking animals who thought it was all fun and games...laughing, and taunting at them before they were killed. At one point Tomlin had convulsions and Dylan was laughing his ass off.

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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeThu May 30, 2019 9:28 pm

I've tried to hear closely even with headphones and all I've ever picked up was "Get up" by Eric even though "get up" didn't necessarily sound like get up to me until I read the actual transcripts and Patti on the 911 call said he was telling people to get up, get up right now. But if I had never entered this forum, I would've absolutely thought Eric also said "Get up right now" and Dylan said "Hey boy" before he shot KV. So you are right minds can play tricks and hear things that aren't really there. I also heard the small clip of Townsend being killed by Klebold, all I made out of that was "Oh my god" then shooting. I do wonder how Brooks was so able to pick out what was happening in the extended clip when he said Eric was very stoic but Dylan was having the time of his life. was Brooks mind always playing tricks? Or maybe he heard an absolutely crystal clear version. Idk.
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeThu May 30, 2019 9:37 pm

dereknocturnal wrote:
I've tried to hear closely even with headphones and all I've ever picked up was "Get up" by Eric even though "get up" didn't necessarily sound like get up to me until I read the actual transcripts and Patti on the 911 call said he was telling people to get up, get up right now. But if I had never entered this forum, I would've absolutely thought Eric also said "Get up right now" and Dylan said "Hey boy" before he shot KV. So you are right minds can play tricks and hear things that aren't really there. I also heard the small clip of Townsend being killed by Klebold, all I made out of that was "Oh my god" then shooting. I do wonder how Brooks was so able to pick out what was happening in the extended clip when he said Eric was very stoic but Dylan was having the time of his life. was Brooks mind always playing tricks? Or maybe he heard an absolutely crystal clear version. Idk.

That's Valeen Schnurr that can be heard saying "Oh my god" repeatedly.
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeThu May 30, 2019 9:42 pm

lol wrote:
SenSpiritedAway wrote:
Well......I’m currently looking into another question I have about the library which required me to re read Austin Eubanks statement. He said that Dylan entered first and Dylan was the one to shout “get up”. If I can run this in my head, Dylan enters first, he states “get up”, Eric fires down the length of the library counter hitting no one and then Dylan and Eric walk toward the windows and Dylan shoots Kyle. The 911 call picks up the “get up”  but does it pick up anything that sounds like “are you with me”? I don’t recall that.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I think you are correct on that. It may have been something Lisa misunderstood or mistakenly reported.
With all respect to your post, I disagree. I've researched Columbine for more than a decade easily. Eric and Dylan sound extremely different. You can 100% tell the boys' voices apart. When they first get into the library Eric is the one that yells "GET UP!" Then about 10 seconds later you hear Dylan say "EVVEEERRYBODY GET UP...NOW!" on the tapes.

If Eric told Dylan "Are you with me? We're still going to do this right?" It was prior to them screaming and telling everyone to get up. There's no way the phones would've been able to pick up on that.

dereknocturnal wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
SenSpiritedAway wrote:
Here’s Lisa’s statement. It’s def the first time they enter but she can not pinpoint who said it. Others may have heard that too and now I’m curious if anyone says who they believe it may have been. Haven’t read it word for word in awhile. If I see anything more on it I’ll def post it. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


If it was said then I think it was Eric to Dylan.

I always felt like it was Eric with the first audible "Get up" and it sounded like Eric saying "Get up right now" The only thing I thought I heard from Dylan was "Hey boy" then a shotgun blast so figured he said before he killed K.V but someone said Dylan didn't say "hey boy" So I personally never heard Dylan on the Patti 911 call. I wonder if Eric did wonder wtf is going on outside since Dylan wasn't shooting much and had to get his mind back in the game so to say.
Eric did tell everyone to get up, and then Dylan yelled much louder and told everyone to get up now. "Hey Boy" was not from Eric or Dylan. They said "Hey Boyd". It sounded far too clear and I believe it was Officer Boyd that one of the dispatchers were talking to. Most of the things people apparently pick up in the released Columbine 911 tapes is imaginary. The brain can fool you extremely well. I've read comments on there where people say they can hear Eric say "Peek-a-boo" and shooting Cassie, or saying "Pigs are here" and start shooting at cops. None of this is remotely true. The released 911 call is very short as opposed to the actual full tape which was about 26 minutes in length.

The only kid that was killed in the 911 tapes that was released to the public was Kyle as he was killed a minute both Eric and Dylan entered the library. The extended 911 tape of an extra 30 seconds was Lauren Townshed being murdered by Klebold. Besides those two no one else on the 911 tapes were killed from the official released 911 tapes that we have now. And I hope it stays that away. I would never ever want to hear the full tape of these poor kids being murdered by fucking animals who thought it was all fun and games...laughing, and taunting at them before they were killed. At one point Tomlin had convulsions and Dylan was laughing his ass off.


I trust that it’s Eric that says “get up” like you said. I honestly have a hard time understanding anything on the 911 calls. I was just repeating Austin’s statement where he “claims” Dylan says it. Per Austin’s statement I was just trying to see if “are you with me” was ever stated. I should have noted it was Eric and not Dylan despite his skewed recollections. My apologies.
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeThu May 30, 2019 9:45 pm

SenSpiritedAway wrote:
lol wrote:
SenSpiritedAway wrote:
Well......I’m currently looking into another question I have about the library which required me to re read Austin Eubanks statement. He said that Dylan entered first and Dylan was the one to shout “get up”. If I can run this in my head, Dylan enters first, he states “get up”, Eric fires down the length of the library counter hitting no one and then Dylan and Eric walk toward the windows and Dylan shoots Kyle. The 911 call picks up the “get up”  but does it pick up anything that sounds like “are you with me”? I don’t recall that.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I think you are correct on that. It may have been something Lisa misunderstood or mistakenly reported.
With all respect to your post, I disagree. I've researched Columbine for more than a decade easily. Eric and Dylan sound extremely different. You can 100% tell the boys' voices apart. When they first get into the library Eric is the one that yells "GET UP!" Then about 10 seconds later you hear Dylan say "EVVEEERRYBODY GET UP...NOW!" on the tapes.

If Eric told Dylan "Are you with me? We're still going to do this right?" It was prior to them screaming and telling everyone to get up. There's no way the phones would've been able to pick up on that.

dereknocturnal wrote:
Screamingophelia wrote:
SenSpiritedAway wrote:
Here’s Lisa’s statement. It’s def the first time they enter but she can not pinpoint who said it. Others may have heard that too and now I’m curious if anyone says who they believe it may have been. Haven’t read it word for word in awhile. If I see anything more on it I’ll def post it. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


If it was said then I think it was Eric to Dylan.

I always felt like it was Eric with the first audible "Get up" and it sounded like Eric saying "Get up right now" The only thing I thought I heard from Dylan was "Hey boy" then a shotgun blast so figured he said before he killed K.V but someone said Dylan didn't say "hey boy" So I personally never heard Dylan on the Patti 911 call. I wonder if Eric did wonder wtf is going on outside since Dylan wasn't shooting much and had to get his mind back in the game so to say.
Eric did tell everyone to get up, and then Dylan yelled much louder and told everyone to get up now. "Hey Boy" was not from Eric or Dylan. They said "Hey Boyd". It sounded far too clear and I believe it was Officer Boyd that one of the dispatchers were talking to. Most of the things people apparently pick up in the released Columbine 911 tapes is imaginary. The brain can fool you extremely well. I've read comments on there where people say they can hear Eric say "Peek-a-boo" and shooting Cassie, or saying "Pigs are here" and start shooting at cops. None of this is remotely true. The released 911 call is very short as opposed to the actual full tape which was about 26 minutes in length.

The only kid that was killed in the 911 tapes that was released to the public was Kyle as he was killed a minute both Eric and Dylan entered the library. The extended 911 tape of an extra 30 seconds was Lauren Townshed being murdered by Klebold. Besides those two no one else on the 911 tapes were killed from the official released 911 tapes that we have now. And I hope it stays that away. I would never ever want to hear the full tape of these poor kids being murdered by fucking animals who thought it was all fun and games...laughing, and taunting at them before they were killed. At one point Tomlin had convulsions and Dylan was laughing his ass off.


I trust that it’s Eric that says “get up” like you said. I honestly have a hard time understanding anything on the 911 calls. I was just repeating Austin’s statement where he “claims” Dylan says it. Per Austin’s statement I was just trying to see if “are you with me” was ever stated. I should have noted it was Eric and not Dylan despite his skewed recollections. My apologies.
No issues with me. I think only Lisa ever stated that she said she heard one of the males say to the other if they were still with them, and are they still going to do this before shooting in the library. No other witnesses though to back up that claim...
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeThu May 30, 2019 10:43 pm

It’s all good 😁I agree 100 that Lisa was mistaken. That was def not an unknown occurrence that day from witnesses. There was a lot going on to say the least.
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeThu May 30, 2019 11:02 pm

I find the Library 911 call very difficult to understand. You have a combination of Patti's end of the line and the dispatcher's end and they're having multiple conversations. At one point you do hear someone on the dispatcher's end say "page Boyd" who, like someone above stated, was an officer. I believe officer Boyd called back after being paged and a dispatcher right next to the lady speaking with Patti picked up and said "hey Boyd". Also, no offence to Austin but wasn't he with Corey towards the back of the library? Did he even have a view of the entrance from where he was?

Also, my understanding of the 911 call was Eric entered first yelling "Get up!" then shooting towards Even Todd. Afterward Dylan strode in and yelled "EVERYBODY GET UP RIGHT NOW!" That's literally all I can make out as far as Eric and Dylan go.
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeThu May 30, 2019 11:46 pm

TaylorsMom wrote:
I find the Library 911 call very difficult to understand.  You have a combination of Patti's end of the line and the dispatcher's end and they're having multiple conversations.  At one point you do hear someone on the dispatcher's end say "page Boyd" who, like someone above stated, was an officer.  I believe officer Boyd called back after being paged and a dispatcher right next to the lady speaking with Patti picked up and said "hey Boyd".  Also, no offence to Austin but wasn't he with Corey towards the back of the library?  Did he even have a view of the entrance from where he was?

Also, my understanding of the 911 call was Eric entered first yelling "Get up!" then shooting towards Even Todd.  Afterward Dylan strode in and yelled "EVERYBODY GET UP RIGHT NOW!"  That's literally all I can make out as far as Eric and Dylan go.


That's what makes this forum great, I never knew there was an officer named Boyd, you can learn so much here. Moving onward, why don't you think Dylan killed Evan Todd since he claimed Todd used to call him a fag? Dylan let him live, why? and why after Dylan said I'm gonna let this fat fuck live why didn't Eric just pull the trigger in his face and get another kill? That's a mystery to me why Dylan let a kid live that he obviously remembered had wronged him and why Eric didn't just pull the trigger one more time before goin to the commons?
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeFri May 31, 2019 7:09 pm

TaylorsMom wrote:
Also, my understanding of the 911 call was Eric entered first yelling "Get up!" then shooting towards Even Todd. Afterward Dylan strode in and yelled "EVERYBODY GET UP RIGHT NOW!" That's literally all I can make out as far as Eric and Dylan go.

I think the full sentence is, "everybody get up right now! You're all mine..."
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeFri May 31, 2019 8:12 pm

dereknocturnal wrote:
Moving onward, why don't you think Dylan killed Evan Todd since he claimed Todd used to call him a fag? Dylan let him live, why? and why after Dylan said I'm gonna let this fat fuck live why didn't Eric just pull the trigger in his face and get another kill? That's a mystery to me why Dylan let a kid live that he obviously remembered had wronged him and why Eric didn't just pull the trigger one more time before goin to the commons?

This interaction, in which people claim that Dylan said, "You used to call me a fag, who's the fag now?"- it never happened.
Several witnesses, including Evan Todd himself in a lengthy 16 page statement (p. 161- 179), report that Dylan said, "What do we have here?" And when Eric asked, "What?," Dylan replied, "Just some fat fuck." He also asked Evan if he was a jock, Todd lied and said no, to which Dylan replied "Good, because we don't like jocks." Dylan said "Give me one good reason why I shouldn't kill you" to which Todd replied, "I don't want to get in trouble". Dylan got pissed at this and said, "Trouble? You don't even know what fucking trouble is." So Todd backtracked and said, "That's not what I meant. I mean, I don't have a problem with you guys, I never will and I never did.". To which Dylan replied that he was going to "let this fat fuck live. You can have at him if you want." Eric ignored Todd and said, "Let's go to the Commons."

If Todd had bullied them, Dylan would certainly have known who he was and that he was a football player. After all, they had lists of everyone who "wronged" them. Because of this, I don't believe either Dylan or Eric even knew who Todd was.
Not a single library witness reported the "who's a fag now?" interaction. I don't know where those words came from, but it wasn't from anyone in the 11k+ or anyone in any news interviews.  
Also, it's worth noting that all the people on their hit lists had sections redacted from their statements. Todd's has no such redaction so he was not likely on any of their lists.

It's my personal opinion that Todd got tied to being one of  Eric and Dylan's bullies because of the stuff he said in the Time article [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
"Evan Todd, the 255-lb. defensive lineman who was wounded in the library, describes the climate this way: "Columbine is a clean, good place except for those rejects," Todd says of Klebold and Harris and their friends. "Most kids didn't want them there. They were into witchcraft. They were into voodoo dolls. Sure, we teased them. But what do you expect with kids who come to school with weird hairdos and horns on their hats? It's not just jocks; the whole school's disgusted with them. They're a bunch of homos, grabbing each other's private parts. If you want to get rid of someone, usually you tease 'em. So the whole school would call them homos, and when they did something sick, we'd tell them, 'You're sick and that's wrong.'"

I think somewhere along the line this got twisted and now many think it's a fact that Evan Todd bullied Dylan and Eric and that they had this "who's a fag now?" altercation in the library when that is not at all what the evidence suggests.

As for why neither of them killed Todd- it's anyone's guess. My opinion is that Dylan liked playing God and was maybe tired of killing. I think Eric was maybe tired of the one on one killing and was desperate to get the bombs to explode. He may have been expecting police to begin charging in at any time and his "work" wasn't completed.
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeFri May 31, 2019 8:55 pm

thelmar wrote:
dereknocturnal wrote:
Moving onward, why don't you think Dylan killed Evan Todd since he claimed Todd used to call him a fag? Dylan let him live, why? and why after Dylan said I'm gonna let this fat fuck live why didn't Eric just pull the trigger in his face and get another kill? That's a mystery to me why Dylan let a kid live that he obviously remembered had wronged him and why Eric didn't just pull the trigger one more time before goin to the commons?

This interaction, in which people claim that Dylan said, "You used to call me a fag, who's the fag now?"- it never happened.
Several witnesses, including Evan Todd himself in a lengthy 16 page statement (p. 161- 179), report that Dylan said, "What do we have here?" And when Eric asked, "What?," Dylan replied, "Just some fat fuck." He also asked Evan if he was a jock, Todd lied and said no, to which Dylan replied "Good, because we don't like jocks." Dylan said "Give me one good reason why I shouldn't kill you" to which Todd replied, "I don't want to get in trouble". Dylan got pissed at this and said, "Trouble? You don't even know what fucking trouble is." So Todd backtracked and said, "That's not what I meant. I mean, I don't have a problem with you guys, I never will and I never did.". To which Dylan replied that he was going to "let this fat fuck live. You can have at him if you want." Eric ignored Todd and said, "Let's go to the Commons."

If Todd had bullied them, Dylan would certainly have known who he was and that he was a football player. After all, they had lists of everyone who "wronged" them. Because of this, I don't believe either Dylan or Eric even knew who Todd was.
Not a single library witness reported the "who's a fag now?" interaction. I don't know where those words came from, but it wasn't from anyone in the 11k+ or anyone in any news interviews.  
Also, it's worth noting that all the people on their hit lists had sections redacted from their statements. Todd's has no such redaction so he was not likely on any of their lists.

It's my personal opinion that Todd got tied to being one of  Eric and Dylan's bullies because of the stuff he said in the Time article [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
"Evan Todd, the 255-lb. defensive lineman who was wounded in the library, describes the climate this way: "Columbine is a clean, good place except for those rejects," Todd says of Klebold and Harris and their friends. "Most kids didn't want them there. They were into witchcraft. They were into voodoo dolls. Sure, we teased them. But what do you expect with kids who come to school with weird hairdos and horns on their hats? It's not just jocks; the whole school's disgusted with them. They're a bunch of homos, grabbing each other's private parts. If you want to get rid of someone, usually you tease 'em. So the whole school would call them homos, and when they did something sick, we'd tell them, 'You're sick and that's wrong.'"

I think somewhere along the line this got twisted and now many think it's a fact that Evan Todd bullied Dylan and Eric and that they had this "who's a fag now?" altercation in the library when that is not at all what the evidence suggests.

As for why neither of them killed Todd- it's anyone's guess. My opinion is that Dylan liked playing God and was maybe tired of killing. I think Eric was maybe tired of the one on one killing and was desperate to get the bombs to explode. He may have been expecting police to begin charging in at any time and his "work" wasn't completed.
Great post. Very informative. The whole Evan Todd being the bullies of Eric and Dylan is such a bunch of nonsense. It's the reason why myths about Columbine just continue to happen. Like the whole Dylan saying, "I'm full of love and no one wants it"....yeah...Dylan never said this. Eric is the one who say he was full of hate and he loves it.

As I stated before most of the "bullying" that happened to Eric and Dylan were actually to the TCM that people continue to squeeze in Eric and Dylan as being the ones who were getting tortured. The whole shit throwing incident? That did not happen to Eric or Dylan. It happened to a few members of the TCM. Like the whole ketchup tampon incident...sounds completely far-fetched. Zero witnesses besides one Columbine student who stated it, and then everyone just ran with it.

And the whole Rocky tormenting Eric and Dylan is a bunch of bs. Calling Eric and Dylan "fags" (who I guarantee you that Rocky just saw them as another bunch of nerds and barely knew them) Just more lies. It's unbelievable how even 20 years later there are still so many lies that are continuously spread around.
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeSat Jun 01, 2019 3:55 pm

“Evan Todd, the 255-lb. defensive lineman who was wounded in the library, describes the climate this way: “Columbine is a clean, good place except for those rejects,” Todd says of Klebold, Harris and their friends. “Most kids didn’t want them there. They were into witchcraft. They were into voodoo dolls. Sure, we teased them. But what do you expect with kids who come to school with weird hairdos and horns on their hats? It’s not just jocks; the whole school’s disgusted with them. They’re a bunch of homos, grabbing each other’s private parts. If you want to get rid of someone, usually you tease’ em. So the whole school would call them homos, and when they did something sick, we’d tell them, ‘You’re sick and that’s wrong.'””
Time Magazine
December 20, 1999
Pages 50 and 51

Maybe here is where some of it got started, unless this article is fabricated. None of that sounds like Eric and Dylan though, witchcraft/voodoo?? horns on their hat? Neither Eric nor Dylan had weird hair, Eric had very normal hair. I can't imagine in a million years Eric or Dylan grabbing at each others crotch. None of it makes sense just like Dylan let a kid live who called him a fag didn't make sense. I still cant believe they didn't take the shot at another kill though. They wanted the most kills in US history but when the bombs failed I would've thought they would've shot everyone close range making sure they were dead to up that count by themselves. Who can know what they were feeling after killing as many and shooting as many as they did outside and in the library. Fantasy is different from reality, Ted Bundy said the fantasy is always better than the kill.
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeSun Jun 02, 2019 10:18 am

dereknocturnal wrote:

Maybe here is where some of it got started, unless this article is fabricated. None of that sounds like Eric and Dylan though, witchcraft/voodoo?? horns on their hat? Neither Eric nor Dylan had weird hair, Eric had very normal hair. I can't imagine in a million years Eric or Dylan grabbing at each others crotch. None of it makes sense just like Dylan let a kid live who called him a fag didn't make sense.

I don't believe the article to be fabricated as it fits in well with everything else we know to be true.

Todd's statements were directed more about the TCM in general and other kids who didn't fit in at Columbine. Many thought the TCM we're into witchcraft and the devil because of the way they dressed, the music they listened to, etc. Columbine was really conservative and predominately Christian, so these kids who were so "different" really stood out. And as in many communities difference and non-conformity are not often looked upon favorably.

The horns on their hat may have referred to Courtney Van Dell, a freshman Goth, who would fashion her hair into devil horns. She was a passing acquaintance of Harris and Klebold and some in the TCM.
The "grabbing each other's crotch" referred to an incident with Joe Stair and Eric Dutro in 1998. Rocky Hoffschneider and his squads surrounded Stair and Dutro in the cafeteria and was pushing and calling them fags, etc. Instead of backing down, Stair and Dutro amped things up and started grabbing at each other to piss off Rocky more. It was eventually broken up by staff. I'll look up the reference in the 11k and post it when I get a chance.

[Edited to add: page 1011 describes this incident. IIRC, someone else in the 11k mentions it, too, but I haven't found that statement yet.]
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeSun Jun 02, 2019 6:13 pm

thelmar wrote:
dereknocturnal wrote:

Maybe here is where some of it got started, unless this article is fabricated. None of that sounds like Eric and Dylan though, witchcraft/voodoo?? horns on their hat? Neither Eric nor Dylan had weird hair, Eric had very normal hair. I can't imagine in a million years Eric or Dylan grabbing at each others crotch. None of it makes sense just like Dylan let a kid live who called him a fag didn't make sense.

I don't believe the article to be fabricated as it fits in well with everything else we know to be true.

Todd's statements were directed more about the TCM in general and other kids who didn't fit in at Columbine. Many thought the TCM we're into witchcraft and the devil because of the way they dressed, the music they listened to, etc. Columbine was really conservative and predominately Christian, so these kids who were so "different" really stood out. And as in many communities difference and non-conformity are not often looked upon favorably.

The horns on their hat may have referred to Courtney Van Dell, a freshman Goth, who would fashion her hair into devil horns. She was a passing acquaintance of Harris and Klebold and some in the TCM.
The "grabbing each other's crotch" referred to an incident with Joe Stair and Eric Dutro in 1998. Rocky Hoffschneider and his squads surrounded Stair and Dutro in the cafeteria and was pushing and calling them fags, etc. Instead of backing down, Stair and Dutro amped things up and started grabbing at each other to piss off Rocky more. It was eventually broken up by staff. I'll look up the reference in the 11k and post it when I get a chance.

[Edited to add: page 1011 describes this incident. IIRC, someone else in the 11k mentions it, too, but I haven't found that statement yet.]


This may sound stupid but who cares. Eric and Dylan weren't a part of the TCM right? They just may have known some people within the clique? I haven't read much of the 11K, I'd like a physical copy, is that available anywhere? All I think I've read were student quotes from what they heard in the library and tbh I gained nothing from it. They all heard something different. I cant say for sure what Eric or Dylan said in the library even after reading transcripts/student quotes and whatever else I could find. But, on Zero Hour I think they did have Dylan say "Evan Todd" when he approached him, so did Dylan know who he was? Even if the fag thing wasn't true, did Dylan know who he was and why would he bounce on the opportunity just to shoot him? He shot K.V. who I highly doubt had ever bullied anyone. It's just a mystery to me.
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thelmar

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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeSun Jun 02, 2019 8:17 pm

dereknocturnal wrote:

Eric and Dylan weren't a part of the TCM right?
Whether they were or weren't makes no difference. Kids like Evan Todd thought they were part of the group because they wore trench coats. So when he talked of Eric and Dylan he lumped them in with the TCM because in his mind they were one in the same.

dereknocturnal wrote:
I haven't read much of the 11K, I'd like a physical copy, is that available anywhere?
No, you'd need to print it out which would cost a fortune.

dereknocturnal wrote:
All I think I've read were student quotes from what they heard in the library and tbh I gained nothing from it. They all heard something different. I cant say for sure what Eric or Dylan said in the library even after reading transcripts/student quotes and whatever else I could find.
Everybody heard something different but along the same vein. The words/ sentences were not exactly quoted but the reports are similar enough that a basic picture can be drawn. For example, people heard Dylan say something along the lines of "What do we have here?" and something about a "fat fuck." But no one, including Evan, heard "you used to call me fag." We'll never know what happened or what was said, but I do get a basic sense of things from the police statements.

dereknocturnal wrote:
in Zero Hour I think they did have Dylan say "Evan Todd" when he approached him, so did Dylan know who he was? Even if the fag thing wasn't true, did Dylan know who he was and why would he bounce on the opportunity just to shoot him? He shot K.V. who I highly doubt had ever bullied anyone. It's just a mystery to me.
I haven't seen Zero Hour in a long time so I don't know what they had Dylan say. But they could only get the info from the police statements/witnesses. No one, including Todd said that Dylan called him by his name so if they put this in the movie it was for creative license, just like when they had Anne Marie lock eyes with Eric before he shot her. That didn't happen either.
I can only guess, of course, but the fact that Dylan asked Evan if he was a jock suggests to me that they did not know each other. If Dylan knew Evan, wouldn't he already know he was a jock?

And like many things about Columbine, why they didn't kill Todd or kill more period will always be an unanswerable mystery.
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeSun Jun 02, 2019 8:57 pm

Ok, so in Zero Hour the "Evan Todd" comment does happen, even though the British narrator is speaking it does sound like the Dylan character did say "You used to call me a fag" at around 38:17... Is it possible, Evan left that out of his statement? Even in 1999 when things were drastically different than they are now, with homophobic language, maybe he wanted to buffer himself up? to not look like a bully homophobic jock? Kids do lie to police, I know I did a few times. The "fag" statement actually does matter more than even I thought, cause that would make it even more mind boggling as to why Dylan didn't shoot Todd, or Eric for that matter if he recognized him.
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeMon Jun 03, 2019 12:13 am

dereknocturnal wrote:
Ok, so in Zero Hour the "Evan Todd" comment does happen, even though the British narrator is speaking it does sound like the Dylan character did say "You used to call me a fag" at around 38:17... Is it possible, Evan left that out of his statement? Even in 1999 when things were drastically different than they are now, with homophobic language, maybe he wanted to buffer himself up? to not look like a bully homophobic jock? Kids do lie to police, I know I did a few times. The "fag" statement actually does matter more than even I thought, cause that would make it even more mind boggling as to why Dylan didn't shoot Todd, or Eric for that matter if he recognized him.
Zero Hour isn't 100% accurate. Evan Todd had no idea who Eric and Dylan were. He may have seen their faces in the school before but just in passing by. Columbine is a big school. There were roughly 2k students in 1999. They didn't know everyone. Besides Eric and Dylan were seniors. Todd was a sophomore. The whole "You used to call me a fag. Who's the fag now?" is a myth that has been around for quite some time. There's been a few more myths like the Rachel Scott "Do you believe in God", Cassie Bernall's, "Do you believe in God", Dylan shooting Sanders (Zero Hour is wrong. Eric shot and killed him). And they planted the bombs around 10:58am if I recall. They weren't even in their trenchcoats when they planted the bombs. They're not that stupid. They went inside with their normal clothes, planted the bomb, went to Clement Park, "geared up", had a divisonary bomb there for the police to go there instead of the high school.

You best believe if Eric or Dylan knew Todd he would've been dead. Dylan even had to ask him to "see his face". And when he saw his face he asked him if he was a jock. That alone implies that he had no idea who Todd was.
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeMon Jun 03, 2019 2:00 am

lol wrote:
dereknocturnal wrote:
Ok, so in Zero Hour the "Evan Todd" comment does happen, even though the British narrator is speaking it does sound like the Dylan character did say "You used to call me a fag" at around 38:17... Is it possible, Evan left that out of his statement? Even in 1999 when things were drastically different than they are now, with homophobic language, maybe he wanted to buffer himself up? to not look like a bully homophobic jock? Kids do lie to police, I know I did a few times. The "fag" statement actually does matter more than even I thought, cause that would make it even more mind boggling as to why Dylan didn't shoot Todd, or Eric for that matter if he recognized him.
Zero Hour isn't 100% accurate. Evan Todd had no idea who Eric and Dylan were. He may have seen their faces in the school before but just in passing by. Columbine is a big school. There were roughly 2k students in 1999. They didn't know everyone. Besides Eric and Dylan were seniors. Todd was a sophomore. The whole "You used to call me a fag. Who's the fag now?" is a myth that has been around for quite some time. There's been a few more myths like the Rachel Scott "Do you believe in God", Cassie Bernall's, "Do you believe in God", Dylan shooting Sanders (Zero Hour is wrong. Eric shot and killed him). And they planted the bombs around 10:58am if I recall. They weren't even in their trenchcoats when they planted the bombs. They're not that stupid. They went inside with their normal clothes, planted the bomb, went to Clement Park, "geared up", had a divisonary bomb there for the police to go there instead of the high school.

You best believe if Eric or Dylan knew Todd he would've been dead. Dylan even had to ask him to "see his face". And when he saw his face he asked him if he was a jock. That alone implies that he had no idea who Todd was.


When Eric and Dylan entered the school, Patti says one of the shooters pointed the gun and smiled before shooting out the window to the door, I imagine that was Eric? Well, once Eric and Dylan entered the school, I had always figured Eric was the one to shoot D.S. What do you think exactly happened when Eric and Dylan entered the school? Eric exchanged fire with Neil Gardner right? What happened next? Dylan actually started firing off his weapon since he didn't much outside? Eric shot D.S down the library hall? I'm curious about the actions before the library and why they even took their time in the library? Like I said it's hard for me to imagine 1999 since I'm a young bastard, but were they just calm because they knew the perimeter technique would be in effect? If it was me and I had just exchanged fire with law enforcement I would've been like hurry your ass up kill ever damn kid underneath the desks so this isn't a complete failure. Those are just my thoughts (as Eric) What happened upon entry prior to the library and why did they take their time even after the Neil Gardner exchange?
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeFri Jun 14, 2019 6:33 am

Screamingophelia wrote:
lol wrote:
dereknocturnal wrote:
Yes another mystery what were the emotions as he put that sawed off in his mouth. I wonder if Dylan seen Eric go, some things I've read think he had his back turned lighting off the final cocktail. Just another in a myriad of Columbine questions that will never be answered.
We may never know, but I'm happy to know that Eric may have died feeling like a failure. Good riddance.

Pretty sure Dylan may have saw Eric blow his brains out. He probably thought "Oh fuck. He actually did it." And killed himself a few seconds after.

It always made me think about Lisa Kruetz and what she heard as Eric and Dylan came into the library the second time. "Are you still with me?" I always assumed it was Dylan to Eric asking about suicide.

Krabbe says nobody else quoted this so it must have been the second time, but that's just not what she said. Several witnesses do agree Dylan first entered the library with Eric dragging behind him. My best guess is Eric was busy paying attention to the cops at the west entrance and Dylan wanted the library massacre and asked. It fits with their position on the stairs and their shirts, for example.

And if my theory on the massacre is correct, then they are already lying about their MO so copycats don't do it, so they would not let the Basement Tapes out if they mentioned it, and it seems like they would. This would explain why they talk about fear of copycats but when they elaborate it's pretending it's about them looking so cool or something - as if releasing Hitmen for Hire (which fwiw portrays them as TCM) doesn't have the same problem.

And I don't think Eric's brain under the molotov film necessarily means there was any real difference between the times they shot themselves. Could have been just fractions of a second difference, and I don't think Dylan was facing Eric.
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PostSubject: Re: Nixon tapes   Nixon tapes Icon_minitimeFri Jun 14, 2019 8:59 am

cakeman wrote:

And I don't think Eric's brain under the molotov film necessarily means there was any real difference between the times they shot themselves. Could have been just fractions of a second difference, and I don't think Dylan was facing Eric.

I agree. I think either boy could have lit the final Molotov cocktail. The Molotov was set on the table top.  In order to get a Molotov to explode it has to be thrown. Because it wasn't thrown it burned for a while until the heat from the wick broke the top of the bottle, allowing contents to leak out onto the table top and subsequently over Eric's brain matter.

From pg. 8938 of the Columbine Report
"The fuse/wick on a Molotov cocktail type device is not designed to penetrate the container and ignite the contents. It is designed to ignite the product in its vapor form once dispersed. A container simply placed in a stationary location may not ignite at all due to the fuse burning itself out. It is reasonable for the fuse device to apply enough heat to the exterior of the container and cause it to fracture in that location. This condition is consistent with the fuel pattern and lack of heavy fire damage observed on the top of the table [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. Threaded pieces of the top of the glass bottle used to contain the fuel were found on the tabletop. The threaded pieces of glass were heavily charred indicating a pro-longed exposure to fire. The fuel pattern on the table was consistent with the determined bottle location. near the south edge. The glass and fuel directional patterns were inconsistent with a high-pressure content release, and no evidence that the bottle was thrown against the table was found."

Since it would take a bit for a stationary Molotov to burn and break the top of  the glass, that  probably means that there was enough time for either one of them to light it, kill themselves, and then have it leak and cover Eric's brain matter. I don't believe that the Molotov over his brain tissue proves that Dylan shot himself minutes later.
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