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| | Nixon tapes | |
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+8Szabo Kerea2244 thelmar W.A.R. Screamingophelia lol sympathyforEandD dereknocturnal 12 posters | |
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lol
Posts : 418 Contribution Points : 102022 Forum Reputation : 325 Join date : 2013-07-27
| Subject: Re: Nixon tapes Fri May 31, 2019 3:15 am | |
| - SenSpiritedAway wrote:
- Well......I’m currently looking into another question I have about the library which required me to re read Austin Eubanks statement. He said that Dylan entered first and Dylan was the one to shout “get up”. If I can run this in my head, Dylan enters first, he states “get up”, Eric fires down the length of the library counter hitting no one and then Dylan and Eric walk toward the windows and Dylan shoots Kyle. The 911 call picks up the “get up” but does it pick up anything that sounds like “are you with me”? I don’t recall that.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I think you are correct on that. It may have been something Lisa misunderstood or mistakenly reported. With all respect to your post, I disagree. I've researched Columbine for more than a decade easily. Eric and Dylan sound extremely different. You can 100% tell the boys' voices apart. When they first get into the library Eric is the one that yells "GET UP!" Then about 10 seconds later you hear Dylan say "EVVEEERRYBODY GET UP...NOW!" on the tapes. If Eric told Dylan "Are you with me? We're still going to do this right?" It was prior to them screaming and telling everyone to get up. There's no way the phones would've been able to pick up on that. - dereknocturnal wrote:
- Screamingophelia wrote:
- SenSpiritedAway wrote:
- Here’s Lisa’s statement. It’s def the first time they enter but she can not pinpoint who said it. Others may have heard that too and now I’m curious if anyone says who they believe it may have been. Haven’t read it word for word in awhile. If I see anything more on it I’ll def post it. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
If it was said then I think it was Eric to Dylan. I always felt like it was Eric with the first audible "Get up" and it sounded like Eric saying "Get up right now" The only thing I thought I heard from Dylan was "Hey boy" then a shotgun blast so figured he said before he killed K.V but someone said Dylan didn't say "hey boy" So I personally never heard Dylan on the Patti 911 call. I wonder if Eric did wonder wtf is going on outside since Dylan wasn't shooting much and had to get his mind back in the game so to say. Eric did tell everyone to get up, and then Dylan yelled much louder and told everyone to get up now. "Hey Boy" was not from Eric or Dylan. They said "Hey Boyd". It sounded far too clear and I believe it was Officer Boyd that one of the dispatchers were talking to. Most of the things people apparently pick up in the released Columbine 911 tapes is imaginary. The brain can fool you extremely well. I've read comments on there where people say they can hear Eric say "Peek-a-boo" and shooting Cassie, or saying "Pigs are here" and start shooting at cops. None of this is remotely true. The released 911 call is very short as opposed to the actual full tape which was about 26 minutes in length. The only kid that was killed in the 911 tapes that was released to the public was Kyle as he was killed a minute both Eric and Dylan entered the library. The extended 911 tape of an extra 30 seconds was Lauren Townshed being murdered by Klebold. Besides those two no one else on the 911 tapes were killed from the official released 911 tapes that we have now. And I hope it stays that away. I would never ever want to hear the full tape of these poor kids being murdered by fucking animals who thought it was all fun and games...laughing, and taunting at them before they were killed. At one point Tomlin had convulsions and Dylan was laughing his ass off. | |
| | | dereknocturnal
Posts : 74 Contribution Points : 48869 Forum Reputation : 268 Join date : 2019-05-26
| Subject: Re: Nixon tapes Fri May 31, 2019 3:28 am | |
| I've tried to hear closely even with headphones and all I've ever picked up was "Get up" by Eric even though "get up" didn't necessarily sound like get up to me until I read the actual transcripts and Patti on the 911 call said he was telling people to get up, get up right now. But if I had never entered this forum, I would've absolutely thought Eric also said "Get up right now" and Dylan said "Hey boy" before he shot KV. So you are right minds can play tricks and hear things that aren't really there. I also heard the small clip of Townsend being killed by Klebold, all I made out of that was "Oh my god" then shooting. I do wonder how Brooks was so able to pick out what was happening in the extended clip when he said Eric was very stoic but Dylan was having the time of his life. was Brooks mind always playing tricks? Or maybe he heard an absolutely crystal clear version. Idk.
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| | | Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Nixon tapes Fri May 31, 2019 3:37 am | |
| - dereknocturnal wrote:
- I've tried to hear closely even with headphones and all I've ever picked up was "Get up" by Eric even though "get up" didn't necessarily sound like get up to me until I read the actual transcripts and Patti on the 911 call said he was telling people to get up, get up right now. But if I had never entered this forum, I would've absolutely thought Eric also said "Get up right now" and Dylan said "Hey boy" before he shot KV. So you are right minds can play tricks and hear things that aren't really there. I also heard the small clip of Townsend being killed by Klebold, all I made out of that was "Oh my god" then shooting. I do wonder how Brooks was so able to pick out what was happening in the extended clip when he said Eric was very stoic but Dylan was having the time of his life. was Brooks mind always playing tricks? Or maybe he heard an absolutely crystal clear version. Idk.
That's Valeen Schnurr that can be heard saying "Oh my god" repeatedly. |
| | | Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Nixon tapes Fri May 31, 2019 3:42 am | |
| - lol wrote:
- SenSpiritedAway wrote:
- Well......I’m currently looking into another question I have about the library which required me to re read Austin Eubanks statement. He said that Dylan entered first and Dylan was the one to shout “get up”. If I can run this in my head, Dylan enters first, he states “get up”, Eric fires down the length of the library counter hitting no one and then Dylan and Eric walk toward the windows and Dylan shoots Kyle. The 911 call picks up the “get up” but does it pick up anything that sounds like “are you with me”? I don’t recall that.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I think you are correct on that. It may have been something Lisa misunderstood or mistakenly reported. With all respect to your post, I disagree. I've researched Columbine for more than a decade easily. Eric and Dylan sound extremely different. You can 100% tell the boys' voices apart. When they first get into the library Eric is the one that yells "GET UP!" Then about 10 seconds later you hear Dylan say "EVVEEERRYBODY GET UP...NOW!" on the tapes.
If Eric told Dylan "Are you with me? We're still going to do this right?" It was prior to them screaming and telling everyone to get up. There's no way the phones would've been able to pick up on that.
- dereknocturnal wrote:
- Screamingophelia wrote:
- SenSpiritedAway wrote:
- Here’s Lisa’s statement. It’s def the first time they enter but she can not pinpoint who said it. Others may have heard that too and now I’m curious if anyone says who they believe it may have been. Haven’t read it word for word in awhile. If I see anything more on it I’ll def post it. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
If it was said then I think it was Eric to Dylan. I always felt like it was Eric with the first audible "Get up" and it sounded like Eric saying "Get up right now" The only thing I thought I heard from Dylan was "Hey boy" then a shotgun blast so figured he said before he killed K.V but someone said Dylan didn't say "hey boy" So I personally never heard Dylan on the Patti 911 call. I wonder if Eric did wonder wtf is going on outside since Dylan wasn't shooting much and had to get his mind back in the game so to say. Eric did tell everyone to get up, and then Dylan yelled much louder and told everyone to get up now. "Hey Boy" was not from Eric or Dylan. They said "Hey Boyd". It sounded far too clear and I believe it was Officer Boyd that one of the dispatchers were talking to. Most of the things people apparently pick up in the released Columbine 911 tapes is imaginary. The brain can fool you extremely well. I've read comments on there where people say they can hear Eric say "Peek-a-boo" and shooting Cassie, or saying "Pigs are here" and start shooting at cops. None of this is remotely true. The released 911 call is very short as opposed to the actual full tape which was about 26 minutes in length.
The only kid that was killed in the 911 tapes that was released to the public was Kyle as he was killed a minute both Eric and Dylan entered the library. The extended 911 tape of an extra 30 seconds was Lauren Townshed being murdered by Klebold. Besides those two no one else on the 911 tapes were killed from the official released 911 tapes that we have now. And I hope it stays that away. I would never ever want to hear the full tape of these poor kids being murdered by fucking animals who thought it was all fun and games...laughing, and taunting at them before they were killed. At one point Tomlin had convulsions and Dylan was laughing his ass off.
I trust that it’s Eric that says “get up” like you said. I honestly have a hard time understanding anything on the 911 calls. I was just repeating Austin’s statement where he “claims” Dylan says it. Per Austin’s statement I was just trying to see if “are you with me” was ever stated. I should have noted it was Eric and not Dylan despite his skewed recollections. My apologies. |
| | | lol
Posts : 418 Contribution Points : 102022 Forum Reputation : 325 Join date : 2013-07-27
| Subject: Re: Nixon tapes Fri May 31, 2019 3:45 am | |
| - SenSpiritedAway wrote:
- lol wrote:
- SenSpiritedAway wrote:
- Well......I’m currently looking into another question I have about the library which required me to re read Austin Eubanks statement. He said that Dylan entered first and Dylan was the one to shout “get up”. If I can run this in my head, Dylan enters first, he states “get up”, Eric fires down the length of the library counter hitting no one and then Dylan and Eric walk toward the windows and Dylan shoots Kyle. The 911 call picks up the “get up” but does it pick up anything that sounds like “are you with me”? I don’t recall that.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I think you are correct on that. It may have been something Lisa misunderstood or mistakenly reported. With all respect to your post, I disagree. I've researched Columbine for more than a decade easily. Eric and Dylan sound extremely different. You can 100% tell the boys' voices apart. When they first get into the library Eric is the one that yells "GET UP!" Then about 10 seconds later you hear Dylan say "EVVEEERRYBODY GET UP...NOW!" on the tapes.
If Eric told Dylan "Are you with me? We're still going to do this right?" It was prior to them screaming and telling everyone to get up. There's no way the phones would've been able to pick up on that.
- dereknocturnal wrote:
- Screamingophelia wrote:
- SenSpiritedAway wrote:
- Here’s Lisa’s statement. It’s def the first time they enter but she can not pinpoint who said it. Others may have heard that too and now I’m curious if anyone says who they believe it may have been. Haven’t read it word for word in awhile. If I see anything more on it I’ll def post it. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
If it was said then I think it was Eric to Dylan. I always felt like it was Eric with the first audible "Get up" and it sounded like Eric saying "Get up right now" The only thing I thought I heard from Dylan was "Hey boy" then a shotgun blast so figured he said before he killed K.V but someone said Dylan didn't say "hey boy" So I personally never heard Dylan on the Patti 911 call. I wonder if Eric did wonder wtf is going on outside since Dylan wasn't shooting much and had to get his mind back in the game so to say. Eric did tell everyone to get up, and then Dylan yelled much louder and told everyone to get up now. "Hey Boy" was not from Eric or Dylan. They said "Hey Boyd". It sounded far too clear and I believe it was Officer Boyd that one of the dispatchers were talking to. Most of the things people apparently pick up in the released Columbine 911 tapes is imaginary. The brain can fool you extremely well. I've read comments on there where people say they can hear Eric say "Peek-a-boo" and shooting Cassie, or saying "Pigs are here" and start shooting at cops. None of this is remotely true. The released 911 call is very short as opposed to the actual full tape which was about 26 minutes in length.
The only kid that was killed in the 911 tapes that was released to the public was Kyle as he was killed a minute both Eric and Dylan entered the library. The extended 911 tape of an extra 30 seconds was Lauren Townshed being murdered by Klebold. Besides those two no one else on the 911 tapes were killed from the official released 911 tapes that we have now. And I hope it stays that away. I would never ever want to hear the full tape of these poor kids being murdered by fucking animals who thought it was all fun and games...laughing, and taunting at them before they were killed. At one point Tomlin had convulsions and Dylan was laughing his ass off.
I trust that it’s Eric that says “get up” like you said. I honestly have a hard time understanding anything on the 911 calls. I was just repeating Austin’s statement where he “claims” Dylan says it. Per Austin’s statement I was just trying to see if “are you with me” was ever stated. I should have noted it was Eric and not Dylan despite his skewed recollections. My apologies. No issues with me. I think only Lisa ever stated that she said she heard one of the males say to the other if they were still with them, and are they still going to do this before shooting in the library. No other witnesses though to back up that claim... | |
| | | Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Nixon tapes Fri May 31, 2019 4:43 am | |
| It’s all good I agree 100 that Lisa was mistaken. That was def not an unknown occurrence that day from witnesses. There was a lot going on to say the least. |
| | | TaylorsMom
Posts : 198 Contribution Points : 77292 Forum Reputation : 25 Join date : 2016-01-05 Age : 40 Location : Greene, ME
| Subject: Re: Nixon tapes Fri May 31, 2019 5:02 am | |
| I find the Library 911 call very difficult to understand. You have a combination of Patti's end of the line and the dispatcher's end and they're having multiple conversations. At one point you do hear someone on the dispatcher's end say "page Boyd" who, like someone above stated, was an officer. I believe officer Boyd called back after being paged and a dispatcher right next to the lady speaking with Patti picked up and said "hey Boyd". Also, no offence to Austin but wasn't he with Corey towards the back of the library? Did he even have a view of the entrance from where he was?
Also, my understanding of the 911 call was Eric entered first yelling "Get up!" then shooting towards Even Todd. Afterward Dylan strode in and yelled "EVERYBODY GET UP RIGHT NOW!" That's literally all I can make out as far as Eric and Dylan go. | |
| | | dereknocturnal
Posts : 74 Contribution Points : 48869 Forum Reputation : 268 Join date : 2019-05-26
| Subject: Re: Nixon tapes Fri May 31, 2019 5:46 am | |
| - TaylorsMom wrote:
- I find the Library 911 call very difficult to understand. You have a combination of Patti's end of the line and the dispatcher's end and they're having multiple conversations. At one point you do hear someone on the dispatcher's end say "page Boyd" who, like someone above stated, was an officer. I believe officer Boyd called back after being paged and a dispatcher right next to the lady speaking with Patti picked up and said "hey Boyd". Also, no offence to Austin but wasn't he with Corey towards the back of the library? Did he even have a view of the entrance from where he was?
Also, my understanding of the 911 call was Eric entered first yelling "Get up!" then shooting towards Even Todd. Afterward Dylan strode in and yelled "EVERYBODY GET UP RIGHT NOW!" That's literally all I can make out as far as Eric and Dylan go. That's what makes this forum great, I never knew there was an officer named Boyd, you can learn so much here. Moving onward, why don't you think Dylan killed Evan Todd since he claimed Todd used to call him a fag? Dylan let him live, why? and why after Dylan said I'm gonna let this fat fuck live why didn't Eric just pull the trigger in his face and get another kill? That's a mystery to me why Dylan let a kid live that he obviously remembered had wronged him and why Eric didn't just pull the trigger one more time before goin to the commons? | |
| | | sympathyforEandD
Posts : 227 Contribution Points : 70444 Forum Reputation : 486 Join date : 2018-07-27
| Subject: Re: Nixon tapes Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:09 am | |
| - TaylorsMom wrote:
- Also, my understanding of the 911 call was Eric entered first yelling "Get up!" then shooting towards Even Todd. Afterward Dylan strode in and yelled "EVERYBODY GET UP RIGHT NOW!" That's literally all I can make out as far as Eric and Dylan go.
I think the full sentence is, "everybody get up right now! You're all mine..." | |
| | | thelmar
Posts : 760 Contribution Points : 82007 Forum Reputation : 3068 Join date : 2018-07-15
| Subject: Re: Nixon tapes Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:12 am | |
| - dereknocturnal wrote:
- Moving onward, why don't you think Dylan killed Evan Todd since he claimed Todd used to call him a fag? Dylan let him live, why? and why after Dylan said I'm gonna let this fat fuck live why didn't Eric just pull the trigger in his face and get another kill? That's a mystery to me why Dylan let a kid live that he obviously remembered had wronged him and why Eric didn't just pull the trigger one more time before goin to the commons?
This interaction, in which people claim that Dylan said, " You used to call me a fag, who's the fag now?"- it never happened. Several witnesses, including Evan Todd himself in a lengthy 16 page statement (p. 161- 179), report that Dylan said, " What do we have here?" And when Eric asked, " What?," Dylan replied, " Just some fat fuck." He also asked Evan if he was a jock, Todd lied and said no, to which Dylan replied " Good, because we don't like jocks." Dylan said " Give me one good reason why I shouldn't kill you" to which Todd replied, " I don't want to get in trouble". Dylan got pissed at this and said, " Trouble? You don't even know what fucking trouble is." So Todd backtracked and said, " That's not what I meant. I mean, I don't have a problem with you guys, I never will and I never did.". To which Dylan replied that he was going to " let this fat fuck live. You can have at him if you want." Eric ignored Todd and said, " Let's go to the Commons." If Todd had bullied them, Dylan would certainly have known who he was and that he was a football player. After all, they had lists of everyone who "wronged" them. Because of this, I don't believe either Dylan or Eric even knew who Todd was. Not a single library witness reported the " who's a fag now?" interaction. I don't know where those words came from, but it wasn't from anyone in the 11k+ or anyone in any news interviews. Also, it's worth noting that all the people on their hit lists had sections redacted from their statements. Todd's has no such redaction so he was not likely on any of their lists. It's my personal opinion that Todd got tied to being one of Eric and Dylan's bullies because of the stuff he said in the Time article [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]"Evan Todd, the 255-lb. defensive lineman who was wounded in the library, describes the climate this way: "Columbine is a clean, good place except for those rejects," Todd says of Klebold and Harris and their friends. "Most kids didn't want them there. They were into witchcraft. They were into voodoo dolls. Sure, we teased them. But what do you expect with kids who come to school with weird hairdos and horns on their hats? It's not just jocks; the whole school's disgusted with them. They're a bunch of homos, grabbing each other's private parts. If you want to get rid of someone, usually you tease 'em. So the whole school would call them homos, and when they did something sick, we'd tell them, 'You're sick and that's wrong.'"I think somewhere along the line this got twisted and now many think it's a fact that Evan Todd bullied Dylan and Eric and that they had this " who's a fag now?" altercation in the library when that is not at all what the evidence suggests. As for why neither of them killed Todd- it's anyone's guess. My opinion is that Dylan liked playing God and was maybe tired of killing. I think Eric was maybe tired of the one on one killing and was desperate to get the bombs to explode. He may have been expecting police to begin charging in at any time and his "work" wasn't completed. | |
| | | lol
Posts : 418 Contribution Points : 102022 Forum Reputation : 325 Join date : 2013-07-27
| Subject: Re: Nixon tapes Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:55 am | |
| - thelmar wrote:
- dereknocturnal wrote:
- Moving onward, why don't you think Dylan killed Evan Todd since he claimed Todd used to call him a fag? Dylan let him live, why? and why after Dylan said I'm gonna let this fat fuck live why didn't Eric just pull the trigger in his face and get another kill? That's a mystery to me why Dylan let a kid live that he obviously remembered had wronged him and why Eric didn't just pull the trigger one more time before goin to the commons?
This interaction, in which people claim that Dylan said, "You used to call me a fag, who's the fag now?"- it never happened. Several witnesses, including Evan Todd himself in a lengthy 16 page statement (p. 161- 179), report that Dylan said, "What do we have here?" And when Eric asked, "What?," Dylan replied, "Just some fat fuck." He also asked Evan if he was a jock, Todd lied and said no, to which Dylan replied "Good, because we don't like jocks." Dylan said "Give me one good reason why I shouldn't kill you" to which Todd replied, "I don't want to get in trouble". Dylan got pissed at this and said, "Trouble? You don't even know what fucking trouble is." So Todd backtracked and said, "That's not what I meant. I mean, I don't have a problem with you guys, I never will and I never did.". To which Dylan replied that he was going to "let this fat fuck live. You can have at him if you want." Eric ignored Todd and said, "Let's go to the Commons."
If Todd had bullied them, Dylan would certainly have known who he was and that he was a football player. After all, they had lists of everyone who "wronged" them. Because of this, I don't believe either Dylan or Eric even knew who Todd was. Not a single library witness reported the "who's a fag now?" interaction. I don't know where those words came from, but it wasn't from anyone in the 11k+ or anyone in any news interviews. Also, it's worth noting that all the people on their hit lists had sections redacted from their statements. Todd's has no such redaction so he was not likely on any of their lists.
It's my personal opinion that Todd got tied to being one of Eric and Dylan's bullies because of the stuff he said in the Time article [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] "Evan Todd, the 255-lb. defensive lineman who was wounded in the library, describes the climate this way: "Columbine is a clean, good place except for those rejects," Todd says of Klebold and Harris and their friends. "Most kids didn't want them there. They were into witchcraft. They were into voodoo dolls. Sure, we teased them. But what do you expect with kids who come to school with weird hairdos and horns on their hats? It's not just jocks; the whole school's disgusted with them. They're a bunch of homos, grabbing each other's private parts. If you want to get rid of someone, usually you tease 'em. So the whole school would call them homos, and when they did something sick, we'd tell them, 'You're sick and that's wrong.'"
I think somewhere along the line this got twisted and now many think it's a fact that Evan Todd bullied Dylan and Eric and that they had this "who's a fag now?" altercation in the library when that is not at all what the evidence suggests.
As for why neither of them killed Todd- it's anyone's guess. My opinion is that Dylan liked playing God and was maybe tired of killing. I think Eric was maybe tired of the one on one killing and was desperate to get the bombs to explode. He may have been expecting police to begin charging in at any time and his "work" wasn't completed. Great post. Very informative. The whole Evan Todd being the bullies of Eric and Dylan is such a bunch of nonsense. It's the reason why myths about Columbine just continue to happen. Like the whole Dylan saying, "I'm full of love and no one wants it"....yeah...Dylan never said this. Eric is the one who say he was full of hate and he loves it. As I stated before most of the "bullying" that happened to Eric and Dylan were actually to the TCM that people continue to squeeze in Eric and Dylan as being the ones who were getting tortured. The whole shit throwing incident? That did not happen to Eric or Dylan. It happened to a few members of the TCM. Like the whole ketchup tampon incident...sounds completely far-fetched. Zero witnesses besides one Columbine student who stated it, and then everyone just ran with it. And the whole Rocky tormenting Eric and Dylan is a bunch of bs. Calling Eric and Dylan "fags" (who I guarantee you that Rocky just saw them as another bunch of nerds and barely knew them) Just more lies. It's unbelievable how even 20 years later there are still so many lies that are continuously spread around. | |
| | | dereknocturnal
Posts : 74 Contribution Points : 48869 Forum Reputation : 268 Join date : 2019-05-26
| Subject: Re: Nixon tapes Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:55 pm | |
| “Evan Todd, the 255-lb. defensive lineman who was wounded in the library, describes the climate this way: “Columbine is a clean, good place except for those rejects,” Todd says of Klebold, Harris and their friends. “Most kids didn’t want them there. They were into witchcraft. They were into voodoo dolls. Sure, we teased them. But what do you expect with kids who come to school with weird hairdos and horns on their hats? It’s not just jocks; the whole school’s disgusted with them. They’re a bunch of homos, grabbing each other’s private parts. If you want to get rid of someone, usually you tease’ em. So the whole school would call them homos, and when they did something sick, we’d tell them, ‘You’re sick and that’s wrong.'”” Time Magazine December 20, 1999 Pages 50 and 51
Maybe here is where some of it got started, unless this article is fabricated. None of that sounds like Eric and Dylan though, witchcraft/voodoo?? horns on their hat? Neither Eric nor Dylan had weird hair, Eric had very normal hair. I can't imagine in a million years Eric or Dylan grabbing at each others crotch. None of it makes sense just like Dylan let a kid live who called him a fag didn't make sense. I still cant believe they didn't take the shot at another kill though. They wanted the most kills in US history but when the bombs failed I would've thought they would've shot everyone close range making sure they were dead to up that count by themselves. Who can know what they were feeling after killing as many and shooting as many as they did outside and in the library. Fantasy is different from reality, Ted Bundy said the fantasy is always better than the kill. | |
| | | thelmar
Posts : 760 Contribution Points : 82007 Forum Reputation : 3068 Join date : 2018-07-15
| Subject: Re: Nixon tapes Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:18 pm | |
| - dereknocturnal wrote:
Maybe here is where some of it got started, unless this article is fabricated. None of that sounds like Eric and Dylan though, witchcraft/voodoo?? horns on their hat? Neither Eric nor Dylan had weird hair, Eric had very normal hair. I can't imagine in a million years Eric or Dylan grabbing at each others crotch. None of it makes sense just like Dylan let a kid live who called him a fag didn't make sense. I don't believe the article to be fabricated as it fits in well with everything else we know to be true. Todd's statements were directed more about the TCM in general and other kids who didn't fit in at Columbine. Many thought the TCM we're into witchcraft and the devil because of the way they dressed, the music they listened to, etc. Columbine was really conservative and predominately Christian, so these kids who were so "different" really stood out. And as in many communities difference and non-conformity are not often looked upon favorably. The horns on their hat may have referred to Courtney Van Dell, a freshman Goth, who would fashion her hair into devil horns. She was a passing acquaintance of Harris and Klebold and some in the TCM. The "grabbing each other's crotch" referred to an incident with Joe Stair and Eric Dutro in 1998. Rocky Hoffschneider and his squads surrounded Stair and Dutro in the cafeteria and was pushing and calling them fags, etc. Instead of backing down, Stair and Dutro amped things up and started grabbing at each other to piss off Rocky more. It was eventually broken up by staff. I'll look up the reference in the 11k and post it when I get a chance. [Edited to add: page 1011 describes this incident. IIRC, someone else in the 11k mentions it, too, but I haven't found that statement yet.] | |
| | | dereknocturnal
Posts : 74 Contribution Points : 48869 Forum Reputation : 268 Join date : 2019-05-26
| Subject: Re: Nixon tapes Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:13 am | |
| - thelmar wrote:
- dereknocturnal wrote:
Maybe here is where some of it got started, unless this article is fabricated. None of that sounds like Eric and Dylan though, witchcraft/voodoo?? horns on their hat? Neither Eric nor Dylan had weird hair, Eric had very normal hair. I can't imagine in a million years Eric or Dylan grabbing at each others crotch. None of it makes sense just like Dylan let a kid live who called him a fag didn't make sense. I don't believe the article to be fabricated as it fits in well with everything else we know to be true.
Todd's statements were directed more about the TCM in general and other kids who didn't fit in at Columbine. Many thought the TCM we're into witchcraft and the devil because of the way they dressed, the music they listened to, etc. Columbine was really conservative and predominately Christian, so these kids who were so "different" really stood out. And as in many communities difference and non-conformity are not often looked upon favorably.
The horns on their hat may have referred to Courtney Van Dell, a freshman Goth, who would fashion her hair into devil horns. She was a passing acquaintance of Harris and Klebold and some in the TCM. The "grabbing each other's crotch" referred to an incident with Joe Stair and Eric Dutro in 1998. Rocky Hoffschneider and his squads surrounded Stair and Dutro in the cafeteria and was pushing and calling them fags, etc. Instead of backing down, Stair and Dutro amped things up and started grabbing at each other to piss off Rocky more. It was eventually broken up by staff. I'll look up the reference in the 11k and post it when I get a chance.
[Edited to add: page 1011 describes this incident. IIRC, someone else in the 11k mentions it, too, but I haven't found that statement yet.]
This may sound stupid but who cares. Eric and Dylan weren't a part of the TCM right? They just may have known some people within the clique? I haven't read much of the 11K, I'd like a physical copy, is that available anywhere? All I think I've read were student quotes from what they heard in the library and tbh I gained nothing from it. They all heard something different. I cant say for sure what Eric or Dylan said in the library even after reading transcripts/student quotes and whatever else I could find. But, on Zero Hour I think they did have Dylan say "Evan Todd" when he approached him, so did Dylan know who he was? Even if the fag thing wasn't true, did Dylan know who he was and why would he bounce on the opportunity just to shoot him? He shot K.V. who I highly doubt had ever bullied anyone. It's just a mystery to me. | |
| | | thelmar
Posts : 760 Contribution Points : 82007 Forum Reputation : 3068 Join date : 2018-07-15
| Subject: Re: Nixon tapes Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:17 am | |
| - dereknocturnal wrote:
-
Eric and Dylan weren't a part of the TCM right? Whether they were or weren't makes no difference. Kids like Evan Todd thought they were part of the group because they wore trench coats. So when he talked of Eric and Dylan he lumped them in with the TCM because in his mind they were one in the same. - dereknocturnal wrote:
- I haven't read much of the 11K, I'd like a physical copy, is that available anywhere?
No, you'd need to print it out which would cost a fortune. - dereknocturnal wrote:
- All I think I've read were student quotes from what they heard in the library and tbh I gained nothing from it. They all heard something different. I cant say for sure what Eric or Dylan said in the library even after reading transcripts/student quotes and whatever else I could find.
Everybody heard something different but along the same vein. The words/ sentences were not exactly quoted but the reports are similar enough that a basic picture can be drawn. For example, people heard Dylan say something along the lines of "What do we have here?" and something about a "fat fuck." But no one, including Evan, heard "you used to call me fag." We'll never know what happened or what was said, but I do get a basic sense of things from the police statements. - dereknocturnal wrote:
- in Zero Hour I think they did have Dylan say "Evan Todd" when he approached him, so did Dylan know who he was? Even if the fag thing wasn't true, did Dylan know who he was and why would he bounce on the opportunity just to shoot him? He shot K.V. who I highly doubt had ever bullied anyone. It's just a mystery to me.
I haven't seen Zero Hour in a long time so I don't know what they had Dylan say. But they could only get the info from the police statements/witnesses. No one, including Todd said that Dylan called him by his name so if they put this in the movie it was for creative license, just like when they had Anne Marie lock eyes with Eric before he shot her. That didn't happen either. I can only guess, of course, but the fact that Dylan asked Evan if he was a jock suggests to me that they did not know each other. If Dylan knew Evan, wouldn't he already know he was a jock? And like many things about Columbine, why they didn't kill Todd or kill more period will always be an unanswerable mystery. | |
| | | dereknocturnal
Posts : 74 Contribution Points : 48869 Forum Reputation : 268 Join date : 2019-05-26
| Subject: Re: Nixon tapes Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:57 am | |
| Ok, so in Zero Hour the "Evan Todd" comment does happen, even though the British narrator is speaking it does sound like the Dylan character did say "You used to call me a fag" at around 38:17... Is it possible, Evan left that out of his statement? Even in 1999 when things were drastically different than they are now, with homophobic language, maybe he wanted to buffer himself up? to not look like a bully homophobic jock? Kids do lie to police, I know I did a few times. The "fag" statement actually does matter more than even I thought, cause that would make it even more mind boggling as to why Dylan didn't shoot Todd, or Eric for that matter if he recognized him. | |
| | | lol
Posts : 418 Contribution Points : 102022 Forum Reputation : 325 Join date : 2013-07-27
| Subject: Re: Nixon tapes Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:13 am | |
| - dereknocturnal wrote:
- Ok, so in Zero Hour the "Evan Todd" comment does happen, even though the British narrator is speaking it does sound like the Dylan character did say "You used to call me a fag" at around 38:17... Is it possible, Evan left that out of his statement? Even in 1999 when things were drastically different than they are now, with homophobic language, maybe he wanted to buffer himself up? to not look like a bully homophobic jock? Kids do lie to police, I know I did a few times. The "fag" statement actually does matter more than even I thought, cause that would make it even more mind boggling as to why Dylan didn't shoot Todd, or Eric for that matter if he recognized him.
Zero Hour isn't 100% accurate. Evan Todd had no idea who Eric and Dylan were. He may have seen their faces in the school before but just in passing by. Columbine is a big school. There were roughly 2k students in 1999. They didn't know everyone. Besides Eric and Dylan were seniors. Todd was a sophomore. The whole "You used to call me a fag. Who's the fag now?" is a myth that has been around for quite some time. There's been a few more myths like the Rachel Scott "Do you believe in God", Cassie Bernall's, "Do you believe in God", Dylan shooting Sanders (Zero Hour is wrong. Eric shot and killed him). And they planted the bombs around 10:58am if I recall. They weren't even in their trenchcoats when they planted the bombs. They're not that stupid. They went inside with their normal clothes, planted the bomb, went to Clement Park, "geared up", had a divisonary bomb there for the police to go there instead of the high school. You best believe if Eric or Dylan knew Todd he would've been dead. Dylan even had to ask him to "see his face". And when he saw his face he asked him if he was a jock. That alone implies that he had no idea who Todd was. | |
| | | dereknocturnal
Posts : 74 Contribution Points : 48869 Forum Reputation : 268 Join date : 2019-05-26
| Subject: Re: Nixon tapes Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:00 am | |
| - lol wrote:
- dereknocturnal wrote:
- Ok, so in Zero Hour the "Evan Todd" comment does happen, even though the British narrator is speaking it does sound like the Dylan character did say "You used to call me a fag" at around 38:17... Is it possible, Evan left that out of his statement? Even in 1999 when things were drastically different than they are now, with homophobic language, maybe he wanted to buffer himself up? to not look like a bully homophobic jock? Kids do lie to police, I know I did a few times. The "fag" statement actually does matter more than even I thought, cause that would make it even more mind boggling as to why Dylan didn't shoot Todd, or Eric for that matter if he recognized him.
Zero Hour isn't 100% accurate. Evan Todd had no idea who Eric and Dylan were. He may have seen their faces in the school before but just in passing by. Columbine is a big school. There were roughly 2k students in 1999. They didn't know everyone. Besides Eric and Dylan were seniors. Todd was a sophomore. The whole "You used to call me a fag. Who's the fag now?" is a myth that has been around for quite some time. There's been a few more myths like the Rachel Scott "Do you believe in God", Cassie Bernall's, "Do you believe in God", Dylan shooting Sanders (Zero Hour is wrong. Eric shot and killed him). And they planted the bombs around 10:58am if I recall. They weren't even in their trenchcoats when they planted the bombs. They're not that stupid. They went inside with their normal clothes, planted the bomb, went to Clement Park, "geared up", had a divisonary bomb there for the police to go there instead of the high school.
You best believe if Eric or Dylan knew Todd he would've been dead. Dylan even had to ask him to "see his face". And when he saw his face he asked him if he was a jock. That alone implies that he had no idea who Todd was. When Eric and Dylan entered the school, Patti says one of the shooters pointed the gun and smiled before shooting out the window to the door, I imagine that was Eric? Well, once Eric and Dylan entered the school, I had always figured Eric was the one to shoot D.S. What do you think exactly happened when Eric and Dylan entered the school? Eric exchanged fire with Neil Gardner right? What happened next? Dylan actually started firing off his weapon since he didn't much outside? Eric shot D.S down the library hall? I'm curious about the actions before the library and why they even took their time in the library? Like I said it's hard for me to imagine 1999 since I'm a young bastard, but were they just calm because they knew the perimeter technique would be in effect? If it was me and I had just exchanged fire with law enforcement I would've been like hurry your ass up kill ever damn kid underneath the desks so this isn't a complete failure. Those are just my thoughts (as Eric) What happened upon entry prior to the library and why did they take their time even after the Neil Gardner exchange? | |
| | | cakeman
Posts : 794 Contribution Points : 79172 Forum Reputation : 1491 Join date : 2018-07-27
| Subject: Re: Nixon tapes Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:33 pm | |
| - Screamingophelia wrote:
- lol wrote:
- dereknocturnal wrote:
- Yes another mystery what were the emotions as he put that sawed off in his mouth. I wonder if Dylan seen Eric go, some things I've read think he had his back turned lighting off the final cocktail. Just another in a myriad of Columbine questions that will never be answered.
We may never know, but I'm happy to know that Eric may have died feeling like a failure. Good riddance.
Pretty sure Dylan may have saw Eric blow his brains out. He probably thought "Oh fuck. He actually did it." And killed himself a few seconds after. It always made me think about Lisa Kruetz and what she heard as Eric and Dylan came into the library the second time. "Are you still with me?" I always assumed it was Dylan to Eric asking about suicide. Krabbe says nobody else quoted this so it must have been the second time, but that's just not what she said. Several witnesses do agree Dylan first entered the library with Eric dragging behind him. My best guess is Eric was busy paying attention to the cops at the west entrance and Dylan wanted the library massacre and asked. It fits with their position on the stairs and their shirts, for example. And if my theory on the massacre is correct, then they are already lying about their MO so copycats don't do it, so they would not let the Basement Tapes out if they mentioned it, and it seems like they would. This would explain why they talk about fear of copycats but when they elaborate it's pretending it's about them looking so cool or something - as if releasing Hitmen for Hire (which fwiw portrays them as TCM) doesn't have the same problem. And I don't think Eric's brain under the molotov film necessarily means there was any real difference between the times they shot themselves. Could have been just fractions of a second difference, and I don't think Dylan was facing Eric. | |
| | | thelmar
Posts : 760 Contribution Points : 82007 Forum Reputation : 3068 Join date : 2018-07-15
| Subject: Re: Nixon tapes Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:59 pm | |
| - cakeman wrote:
And I don't think Eric's brain under the molotov film necessarily means there was any real difference between the times they shot themselves. Could have been just fractions of a second difference, and I don't think Dylan was facing Eric. I agree. I think either boy could have lit the final Molotov cocktail. The Molotov was set on the table top. In order to get a Molotov to explode it has to be thrown. Because it wasn't thrown it burned for a while until the heat from the wick broke the top of the bottle, allowing contents to leak out onto the table top and subsequently over Eric's brain matter. From pg. 8938 of the Columbine Report "The fuse/wick on a Molotov cocktail type device is not designed to penetrate the container and ignite the contents. It is designed to ignite the product in its vapor form once dispersed. A container simply placed in a stationary location may not ignite at all due to the fuse burning itself out. It is reasonable for the fuse device to apply enough heat to the exterior of the container and cause it to fracture in that location. This condition is consistent with the fuel pattern and lack of heavy fire damage observed on the top of the table [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. Threaded pieces of the top of the glass bottle used to contain the fuel were found on the tabletop. The threaded pieces of glass were heavily charred indicating a pro-longed exposure to fire. The fuel pattern on the table was consistent with the determined bottle location. near the south edge. The glass and fuel directional patterns were inconsistent with a high-pressure content release, and no evidence that the bottle was thrown against the table was found." Since it would take a bit for a stationary Molotov to burn and break the top of the glass, that probably means that there was enough time for either one of them to light it, kill themselves, and then have it leak and cover Eric's brain matter. I don't believe that the Molotov over his brain tissue proves that Dylan shot himself minutes later. | |
| | | Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6417 Contribution Points : 192899 Forum Reputation : 1317 Join date : 2017-08-26 Age : 42
| Subject: Re: Nixon tapes Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:32 pm | |
| sorry about the zombie thread, but I was reading somewhere that there was a notebook found on the table with the Nixon tape and there were notes from Eric to his family members.. but I honestly don't recall this. _________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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| | | thelmar
Posts : 760 Contribution Points : 82007 Forum Reputation : 3068 Join date : 2018-07-15
| Subject: Re: Nixon tapes Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:51 pm | |
| - Screamingophelia wrote:
- sorry about the zombie thread, but I was reading somewhere that there was a notebook found on the table with the Nixon tape and there were notes from Eric to his family members.. but I honestly don't recall this.
I haven't found anything yet on a note found near the Nixon tape, but I'll keep looking. I did find something else, and I think you were the one who was wondering this information. The question was, how soon into the attack did authorities realize that Eric and Dylan were the shooters? According to the dispatch log on pg. 9218, at 12:21 pm it says "Susps [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Eric Harris [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Dylan Kirts" I don't know if this was the very first mention of them, but it's the earliest I've found so far. | |
| | | thelmar
Posts : 760 Contribution Points : 82007 Forum Reputation : 3068 Join date : 2018-07-15
| Subject: Re: Nixon tapes Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:33 pm | |
| The evidence gathered from the Harris home starts on pg. 10373 and continues to pg. 10409. I found no specific mention of a note or any communication for the Harris family from Eric. On pg. 10409 is the discussion of the Nixon tape which was found on the kitchen table. On this page there is no mention of accompanying notes or paper. On pg. 10397 is mention of an "item" removed from a kitchen counter. It does not specify what the item was and since several other pages specifically mention paper items I'm guessing this wasn't paper. On pg 10396 it says " On 4-22-99, I copied evidence item [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. This was removed from the kitchen table of the Harris' residence at xxxxxx Street on 4-20-99. I sent leads to the Rapid Start program from these papers." This was found on the same table as the Nixon tape. But Rapid Start is the program used for generating leads and assigning investigators to look into those leads. Would seem weird that a note from Eric to his family would generate any leads (unless they put Wayne, Kathy, and Kevin in the system which seems kinda silly as it should be a no brainer they'd need to be questioned), but I suppose it's possible. I certainly don't know this and I absolutely could have missed finding mention of it, but I have a hunch whoever is claiming Eric left one last note for his family is romanticizing. | |
| | | Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6417 Contribution Points : 192899 Forum Reputation : 1317 Join date : 2017-08-26 Age : 42
| Subject: Re: Nixon tapes Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:32 am | |
| - thelmar wrote:
- Screamingophelia wrote:
- sorry about the zombie thread, but I was reading somewhere that there was a notebook found on the table with the Nixon tape and there were notes from Eric to his family members.. but I honestly don't recall this.
I haven't found anything yet on a note found near the Nixon tape, but I'll keep looking.
I did find something else, and I think you were the one who was wondering this information. The question was, how soon into the attack did authorities realize that Eric and Dylan were the shooters? According to the dispatch log on pg. 9218, at 12:21 pm it says "Susps [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Eric Harris [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Dylan Kirts" I don't know if this was the very first mention of them, but it's the earliest I've found so far. Thank you! I know a few of us were talking too about when Eric and Dylan's names were presented on the news, i remember that perfectly... my first thought (I know, forgive me I was 17) was "fuck, eric harris is hot" sighs... I'm sorry. _________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
| |
| | | Screamingophelia Other Crimes Moderator & Top 10 Contributor
Posts : 6417 Contribution Points : 192899 Forum Reputation : 1317 Join date : 2017-08-26 Age : 42
| Subject: Re: Nixon tapes Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:35 am | |
| - thelmar wrote:
- The evidence gathered from the Harris home starts on pg. 10373 and continues to pg. 10409. I found no specific mention of a note or any communication for the Harris family from Eric.
On pg. 10409 is the discussion of the Nixon tape which was found on the kitchen table. On this page there is no mention of accompanying notes or paper.
On pg. 10397 is mention of an "item" removed from a kitchen counter. It does not specify what the item was and since several other pages specifically mention paper items I'm guessing this wasn't paper.
On pg 10396 it says " On 4-22-99, I copied evidence item [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. This was removed from the kitchen table of the Harris' residence at xxxxxx Street on 4-20-99. I sent leads to the Rapid Start program from these papers." This was found on the same table as the Nixon tape. But Rapid Start is the program used for generating leads and assigning investigators to look into those leads. Would seem weird that a note from Eric to his family would generate any leads (unless they put Wayne, Kathy, and Kevin in the system which seems kinda silly as it should be a no brainer they'd need to be questioned), but I suppose it's possible.
I certainly don't know this and I absolutely could have missed finding mention of it, but I have a hunch whoever is claiming Eric left one last note for his family is romanticizing. I imagine you're right, because in the basement tape transcripts it is always mentioned that Eric wiped tears away and talks about his loved ones, I imagine if it was a letter to his family it would be mentioned. Yet again I always wonder why Sue and Judy are the only ones who mention the Jewish thing from the BT but you hear nothing else about it... you'd think since even now the media and others paint Eric and Dylan as nazis it would be talked about more. _________________ "And you know, you know, you know, this can be beautiful, you say you're numb inside, but I can't agree. So the world's unfair, keep it locked out there. In here it's beautiful."
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| | | Tesla101
Posts : 59 Contribution Points : 47154 Forum Reputation : 135 Join date : 2019-04-03 Location : United Kingdom
| Subject: Re: Nixon tapes Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:22 am | |
| The comparison with Nazi’s come from they german references and the fact they killed without mercy. I don’t believe that the attack was motivated by politics, race or religion etc. It was be disingenuous to describe them as Nazi’s.
I personally think that the Jewish thing is hype from the Brown’s and not a key part of the reason for anything to do with the attack. | |
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