Kacey Johnson and the others.

Look, I'm sorry they were the victims of that horrible tragedy, but they still don't take responsibility for the toxic environment they caused. They probably bullied Eric and Dylan and are not saying anything. I saw an interview with Kacey Johnson on YT 9 months ago where she was a victim of the shooters. I thought to myself their names are Dylan and Eric. You know the guys you all thought was weird just because they wore black. Those people in the library had to of known Eric and Dylan or at least heard of them. I just don't like the hypocrisy.

Nobody forced E&D to do what they did, stop projecting because the world owes you nothing.

...
Thought you were just trolling, but then I found the video you're talking about... and saw you commented there too.

Eric and Dylan planned to kill indiscriminately. Their bombs were meant to kill as many people as possible and they didn't even give a shit that their friends might be among the victims. Sure, they had fantasies about killing the people on their "shit lists"... but, well... that just didn't happen. So what the hell are you blabbing about responsibility? So what if she had known them?

Kacey Johnson doesn't owe Eric and Dylan shit. It's easy for you to talk about hypocrisy. You're not the one who had to live 10+ years in fear.

AbbyLayne wrote:

...
Thought you were just trolling, but then I found the video you're talking about... and saw you commented there too.

Eric and Dylan planned to kill indiscriminately. Their bombs were meant to kill as many people as possible and they didn't even give a shit that their friends might be among the victims. Sure, they had fantasies about killing the people on their "shit lists"... but, well... that just didn't happen. So what the hell are you blabbing about responsibility? So what if she had known them?

Kacey Johnson doesn't owe Eric and Dylan shit. It's easy for you to talk about hypocrisy. You're not the one who had to live 10+ years in fear.

A lot of people knew them that were injured or at least affected... John Savage was in the library, he knew Dylan pretty well.

The thing is, bullying of any kind sucks. When you're a teenager and in the bubble of high school you may see people getting picked on etc.. and you may internally say "wow that's awful" but a lot of times you won't try to stop it out of fear of getting your butt kicked or being bullied too...

They did have people who stuck up for them, people like Devon and Chad. However a lot of times people are more concerned with what's happening in their lives and not paying attention.

There are a lot of factors that went into why Columbine happened.. I don't believe bullying was the main reason but I think the culture and environment in the school was a catalyst in making them feel certain ways. I think they were bullied, I think they were assholes to others too... I don't think you go from being sweet as pie to murderers over night. I am sure their dispositions changed a lot especially their senior year. I mean all one has to do is look at Dylan's senior pictures, which were taken in late summer of 1998 to his prom pictures from 3 days before the shooting to see the change.... he looks like a different person.

As someone who knows survivors, a lot are doing the "no noteriety" with Columbine and no longer say their names.. so they refer to them as the shooters.

Heck I even think Devon is doing the same thing... and she spent years talking about her friend Dylan...

I think the cat is out of the bag with Columbine but I wasn't there so however they decide to deal with everything is their choice!

AbbyLayne wrote:

...
Thought you were just trolling, but then I found the video you're talking about... and saw you commented there too.

Eric and Dylan planned to kill indiscriminately. Their bombs were meant to kill as many people as possible and they didn't even give a shit that their friends might be among the victims. Sure, they had fantasies about killing the people on their "shit lists"... but, well... that just didn't happen. So what the hell are you blabbing about responsibility? So what if she had known them?

Kacey Johnson doesn't owe Eric and Dylan shit. It's easy for you to talk about hypocrisy. You're not the one who had to live 10+ years in fear.

Whatever, I don't like her and I think she's fake.

Screamingophelia wrote:

As someone who knows survivors, a lot are doing the "no noteriety" with Columbine and no longer say their names.. so they refer to them as the shooters.

Heck I even think Devon is doing the same thing... and she spent years talking about her friend Dylan...

I think the cat is out of the bag with Columbine but I wasn't there so however they decide to deal with everything is their choice!

Well, how about doing a no bullying campaign?

bradt93 wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

As someone who knows survivors, a lot are doing the "no noteriety" with Columbine and no longer say their names.. so they refer to them as the shooters.

Heck I even think Devon is doing the same thing... and she spent years talking about her friend Dylan...

I think the cat is out of the bag with Columbine but I wasn't there so however they decide to deal with everything is their choice!

Well, how about doing a no bullying campaign?

That is a great idea too!

I'm pretty far removed from HS but I think a lot of kids now are not thinking about how they treat others because it is not their job to make sure others kids are okay.. but from my POV, treating people kindly or at least not making things worse isn't victim blaming or making others responsible, it's just being decent.

As Eric said they had his number and never called him. It's what he said in his notes. It was mostly rage they felt at the school and how no one would accept them. I just hate that school period. It's a redneck that is very close minded and has a hard time accepting others who are "different"

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] is correct, in part, that Kacey doesn't use their names due to No Notoriety. She also does it because she decided, at one point, that they had taken enough from her both physically and mentally and she wasn't going to allow them any more space in her head to terrorize her.
That is her right and sounds like a very healthy way of dealing with things.

Kacey had only been at Columbine since the beginning of the year. The previous couple of years were very dark for her, she had a number of friends who died and she had contemplated suicide herself. She told police in her statement that she had never seen Eric or Dylan before. She was a junior and Columbine is a very big school, I don't recall the number of students who attended in 1999 but the school's capacity is somewhere around 1600. It is entirely believable that she had no idea who Eric and Dylan were. My high school was of similar size and I can verify that there are hundreds of people I have never laid eyes on, yet there they are in my year book.

Your anger towards her is unjustified.

thelmar wrote:

Kacey had only been at Columbine since the beginning of the year. The previous couple of years were very dark for her, she had a number of friends who died and she had contemplated suicide herself. She told police in her statement that she had never seen Eric or Dylan before. She was a junior and Columbine is a very big school, I don't recall the number of students who attended in 1999 but the school's capacity is somewhere around 1600. It is entirely believable that she had no idea who Eric and Dylan were. My high school was of similar size and I can verify that there are hundreds of people I have never laid eyes on, yet there they are in my year book.

Columbine High was remodeled and expanded in the mid 90ies, so the school's capacity is even higher and probably closer to 2000. I've read a couple of times that 1,945 students were enrolled in 1999, not 100% sure about the original source of that info though. Current student count is apparently 1,708.
Even looking at the senior class picture of 1999... that's a lot of people. My senior class was like... 45 kids! And even then I barely knew some of them! And maybe a hand full of juniors! Everyone younger hardly existed for me!
To claim every victim of the shooting must have somehow bullied, excluded or avoided E&D beforehand is simply ludicrous. I read a bit of Kacey Johnson's book, apparently the day of the schooting was the first time she'd ever been to the library. Talk about bad timing.

But even if she'd known or avoided them. I don't think it should be a victim's obligation to talk about their tormentors' troubles and motivations, or even acknowledge them by name. It's not like she puts a bad message out there - and doesn't sound like she demonizes E&D either.

bradt93 wrote:

As Eric said they had his number and never called him. It's what he said in his notes. It was mostly rage they felt at the school and how no one would accept them. I just hate that school period. It's a redneck that is very close minded and has a hard time accepting others who are "different"

Listen... I know a thing or two about being an outsider. I have a lot of sympathy for Eric and Dylan, but I think you're minimizing their mental health problems and you're projecting too much stuff onto the wrong person. You don't have to like Kacey Johnson (heck, I couldn't bear to read more than a few pages of her book, she really rubs me the wrong way), but at least show some respect for what she's been through.

Most people are not going to mention Eric or Dylan by name anymore as the "No Notoriety" movement has gained traction as already mentioned here. This in no way relates to the victim and whether or not they ever interacted with Dylan or Eric. Many of the victims who have spoke out probably did not even know Eric or Dylan. Refusing to call them by name does not exactly relate to bullying them.

AbbyLayne wrote:

thelmar wrote:

Kacey had only been at Columbine since the beginning of the year. The previous couple of years were very dark for her, she had a number of friends who died and she had contemplated suicide herself. She told police in her statement that she had never seen Eric or Dylan before. She was a junior and Columbine is a very big school, I don't recall the number of students who attended in 1999 but the school's capacity is somewhere around 1600. It is entirely believable that she had no idea who Eric and Dylan were. My high school was of similar size and I can verify that there are hundreds of people I have never laid eyes on, yet there they are in my year book.

Columbine High was remodeled and expanded in the mid 90ies, so the school's capacity is even higher and probably closer to 2000. I've read a couple of times that 1,945 students were enrolled in 1999, not 100% sure about the original source of that info though. Current student count is apparently 1,708.
Even looking at the senior class picture of 1999... that's a lot of people. My senior class was like... 45 kids! And even then I barely knew some of them! And maybe a hand full of juniors! Everyone younger hardly existed for me!
To claim every victim of the shooting must have somehow bullied, excluded or avoided E&D beforehand is simply ludicrous. I read a bit of Kacey Johnson's book, apparently the day of the schooting was the first time she'd ever been to the library. Talk about bad timing.

But even if she'd known or avoided them. I don't think it should be a victim's obligation to talk about their tormentors' troubles and motivations, or even acknowledge them by name. It's not like she puts a bad message out there - and doesn't sound like she demonizes E&D either.

bradt93 wrote:

As Eric said they had his number and never called him. It's what he said in his notes. It was mostly rage they felt at the school and how no one would accept them. I just hate that school period. It's a redneck that is very close minded and has a hard time accepting others who are "different"

Listen... I know a thing or two about being an outsider. I have a lot of sympathy for Eric and Dylan, but I think you're minimizing their mental health problems and you're projecting too much stuff onto the wrong person. You don't have to like Kacey Johnson (heck, I couldn't bear to read more than a few pages of her book, she really rubs me the wrong way), but at least show some respect for what she's been through.

Being different though and not being into sports doesn't mean kids should be ostracized and looked down upon. That is not right.

I just thought of something new, is it possible people at the school thought Eric and Dylan had this mindset they were better than them and that's why they didn't have as many friends like they wanted?

bradt93 wrote:

Being different though and not being into sports doesn't mean kids should be ostracized and looked down upon. That is not right.

We can agree on that. High School can be pretty frickin cruel.

bradt93 wrote:

I just thought of something new, is it possible people at the school thought Eric and Dylan had this mindset they were better than them and that's why they didn't have as many friends like they wanted?

Interesting point. I would argue first that Dylan had a pretty decent amount of friends, despite being quiet and awkward and having some anger issues. Eric... not so much. I don't really think it's necessarily a sense of superiority that made them somehow unlikeable. Eric had a pretty erm... unfortunate personality: short tempered, easily offended by minor stuff, always taking things personally, pretty intense in general. I have a friend who's a bit like that. Love them to bits, but f*ck they can be annoying - and I've watched them go through many friendships! Needs a pretty chill person to put up with that. Or someone with a lot of humor.

But you know... maybe! Maybe they would have made some more friends if they hadn't thought of most people as dumb zombies.

But, and that's a pretty big but: When would Eric and Dylan have deemed themselves sufficiently popular? I don't think Dylan would have been happier with a few more friends, somehow I feel like even having a girlfriend would have ultimately disappointed him, because who could ever live up to his fantasies about pure love? As for Eric... no idea.

Screamingophelia wrote:

As someone who knows survivors, a lot are doing the "no noteriety" with Columbine

Just out of curiosity, how many survivors do you know? I only know one survivor, Kim Pinder (maiden name was Colton). She was in choir at the time of the shootings.

AbbyLayne wrote:

bradt93 wrote:

Being different though and not being into sports doesn't mean kids should be ostracized and looked down upon. That is not right.

We can agree on that. High School can be pretty frickin cruel.

bradt93 wrote:

I just thought of something new, is it possible people at the school thought Eric and Dylan had this mindset they were better than them and that's why they didn't have as many friends like they wanted?

Interesting point. I would argue first that Dylan had a pretty decent amount of friends, despite being quiet and awkward and having some anger issues. Eric... not so much. I don't really think it's necessarily a sense of superiority that made them somehow unlikeable. Eric had a pretty erm... unfortunate personality: short tempered, easily offended by minor stuff, always taking things personally, pretty intense in general. I have a friend who's a bit like that. Love them to bits, but f*ck they can be annoying - and I've watched them go through many friendships! Needs a pretty chill person to put up with that. Or someone with a lot of humor.

But you know... maybe! Maybe they would have made some more friends if they hadn't thought of most people as dumb zombies.

But, and that's a pretty big but: When would Eric and Dylan have deemed themselves sufficiently popular? I don't think Dylan would have been happier with a few more friends, somehow I feel like even having a girlfriend would have ultimately disappointed him, because who could ever live up to his fantasies about pure love? As for Eric... no idea.

WEll, you should understand why I don't like people like Kacey Johnson and others like her then. She is not someone I would want to be around and that's my right.

"Those people"? Ahem.

jada887 wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

As someone who knows survivors, a lot are doing the "no noteriety" with Columbine

Just out of curiosity, how many survivors do you know? I only know one survivor, Kim Pinder (maiden name was Colton). She was in choir at the time of the shootings.

5

I try not to talk about it too much because of the work I do, but one of my best friends was in the cafeteria and I have met a lot of people through her and I also met Brooks YEARS ago.... he wouldn't remember me which is fine.

Screamingophelia wrote:

jada887 wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

As someone who knows survivors, a lot are doing the "no noteriety" with Columbine

Just out of curiosity, how many survivors do you know? I only know one survivor, Kim Pinder (maiden name was Colton). She was in choir at the time of the shootings.

5

I try not to talk about it too much because of the work I do, but one of my best friends was in the cafeteria and I have met a lot of people through her and I also met Brooks YEARS ago.... he wouldn't remember me which is fine.

Did your friend know Eric and Dylan?

Yumeko-chan wrote:

"Those people"?  Ahem.

I don't think he expected an actual survivor of the shooting to read that. At least, I hope not.

bradt93 wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

jada887 wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

As someone who knows survivors, a lot are doing the "no noteriety" with Columbine

Just out of curiosity, how many survivors do you know? I only know one survivor, Kim Pinder (maiden name was Colton). She was in choir at the time of the shootings.

5

I try not to talk about it too much because of the work I do, but one of my best friends was in the cafeteria and I have met a lot of people through her and I also met Brooks YEARS ago.... he wouldn't remember me which is fine.

Did your friend know Eric and Dylan?

Yes.

Screamingophelia wrote:

bradt93 wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

jada887 wrote:

Screamingophelia wrote:

As someone who knows survivors, a lot are doing the "no noteriety" with Columbine

Just out of curiosity, how many survivors do you know? I only know one survivor, Kim Pinder (maiden name was Colton). She was in choir at the time of the shootings.

5

I try not to talk about it too much because of the work I do, but one of my best friends was in the cafeteria and I have met a lot of people through her and I also met Brooks YEARS ago.... he wouldn't remember me which is fine.

Did your friend know Eric and Dylan?

Yes.

Did she ever say what they were like in school, were they really that "unpopular"?