Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.
Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum

A place to discuss the Columbine High School Massacre along with other school shootings and crimes.
Anyone interested in researching, learning, discussing and debating with us, please come join our community!
 
HomeHome  PortalPortal  CalendarCalendar  Latest imagesLatest images  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  MemberlistMemberlist  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  

 

 What will be lost forever?

Go down 
+4
LPorter101
milennialrebelette
downwardspiral
QuestionMark
8 posters
AuthorMessage
Guest
Guest




What will be lost forever? Empty
PostSubject: What will be lost forever?   What will be lost forever? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 23, 2020 7:10 pm

It's been 21 years since Columbine happened. I started taking an interest in it around 2007-2009, so well about a decade's worth of interest.

I've come to the conclusion that there are probably things we will never get to see or hear.

Wayne and Kathy are nearing the end of their lives. I think both sets of parents were born in the 1947-1949 age range, so that would put them in the 70-75 age range now, so they're almost there. When they go, we will loose knowledge that we will never get back if they don't decide to speak up about Eric more. We won't see the basement tapes. We won't know more about Eric unless the 2027 dispositions say anything.

Unless Eric's brother decides to speak up we will probably loose this information forever. Gone.

What more information do you think we are going to get before all the people living at that time, eventually die?
Back to top Go down
QuestionMark
Top 10 Contributor
QuestionMark


Posts : 4349
Contribution Points : 121553
Forum Reputation : 3191
Join date : 2017-09-05

What will be lost forever? Empty
PostSubject: Re: What will be lost forever?   What will be lost forever? Icon_minitimeTue Jun 23, 2020 10:26 pm

It's kind of a given that we were never going to get the full picture. That was obvious the moment Eric and Dylan decided to blow their brains out; that singular action has handicapped our ability to fully comprehend their true nature, motives, and mindset, and will leave us wondering about key details forever. Getting to see TBT or hear from the Harris family pales on comparison and even if we heard all there is to hear there'd still be huge gaps in the information.

_________________
"My guns are the only things that haven't stabbed me in the back."
-Kip Kinkel

bit_bit46 and johncena like this post

Back to top Go down
downwardspiral

downwardspiral


Posts : 216
Contribution Points : 42125
Forum Reputation : 306
Join date : 2020-03-02

What will be lost forever? Empty
PostSubject: Re: What will be lost forever?   What will be lost forever? Icon_minitimeWed Jun 24, 2020 1:21 am

We'll never know how exactly they decided to do it, how they broached the subject, if one of them had the idea first or if it was mutual (although the evidence we have suggests it was Dylan's idea first). How the conversation starts for two people to get into that mindset. I think probably the closest we can get to figuring that out, is to look at other similar cases, where the information is known about how it all started.

I think that there's a lot we probably won't know about Eric's background. My personal opinion is that there was probably something more than bullying that led to him turning from a fairly normal kid pre-high school, into a violent criminal. Maybe someone in his family knows what that is, or maybe they don't. It's entirely possible that they don't have any more information than we do.

What's interesting is, we don't even know how Eric's family feels about him. We know that Dylan's family still loves him and cherishes their positive memories of him, despite being horrified about what he did. But we don't know if Eric's family still loves and misses him, and haven't spoken out because it would be controversial to admit that, considering the public blames him more than Dylan, thanks to Cullen. Or if they just decided to totally disown him after Columbine and haven't spoken out because they've washed their hands of the situation, as much as they can. We don't know what they think was wrong with him or what their views are on mental illness in general. Sue Klebold is obviously very pro mental health awareness and it seems like she was like that even before Columbine. But if the Harrises have the "get over it" approach to mental health, they could have the opposite opinion.

But, that's just how it goes in true crime sometimes. It's the same with unidentified persons cases. There were cases where it took 15 or 20 years to identify someone, and once they were identified to their families, the public got almost no information on their backgrounds, and sometimes not even their name. Even though members of the public had spent countless hours trying to identify them.

remrem25 likes this post

Back to top Go down
milennialrebelette

milennialrebelette


Posts : 248
Contribution Points : 60565
Forum Reputation : 725
Join date : 2018-10-28
Age : 32
Location : Littleton, CO

What will be lost forever? Empty
PostSubject: Re: What will be lost forever?   What will be lost forever? Icon_minitimeWed Jun 24, 2020 2:19 am

Yeah I definitely feel this way after my mom died when right after I graduated high school in 2010, since she was friends with Kathy Harris, up until the shooting.
Back to top Go down
LPorter101
Top 10 Contributor
LPorter101


Posts : 2816
Contribution Points : 153679
Forum Reputation : 2764
Join date : 2013-12-02
Location : South Florida

What will be lost forever? Empty
PostSubject: Re: What will be lost forever?   What will be lost forever? Icon_minitimeWed Jun 24, 2020 3:54 am

QuestionMark wrote:
It's kind of a given that we were never going to get the full picture. That was obvious the moment Eric and Dylan decided to blow their brains out; that singular action has handicapped our ability to fully comprehend their true nature, motives, and mindset, and will leave us wondering about key details forever. Getting to see TBT or hear from the Harris family pales on comparison and even if we heard all there is to hear there'd still be huge gaps in the information.

Agreed.

_________________
Why does anyone do anything?
Back to top Go down
Online
Guest
Guest




What will be lost forever? Empty
PostSubject: Re: What will be lost forever?   What will be lost forever? Icon_minitimeWed Jun 24, 2020 11:03 pm

The basement tapes have been destroyed.
Back to top Go down
Onyx
Top Contributor
Onyx


Posts : 316
Contribution Points : 50177
Forum Reputation : 378
Join date : 2019-08-26
Location : Your Eye

What will be lost forever? Empty
PostSubject: Re: What will be lost forever?   What will be lost forever? Icon_minitimeThu Jun 25, 2020 12:38 am

milennialrebelette wrote:
Yeah I definitely feel this way after my mom died when right after I graduated high school in 2010, since she was friends with Kathy Harris, up until the shooting.

Wow, really?
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




What will be lost forever? Empty
PostSubject: Re: What will be lost forever?   What will be lost forever? Icon_minitimeThu Jun 25, 2020 1:05 am

The Nixon tape, comes to mind. As compared to the Basement Tapes I haven't found much about it. More photos of Eric, too. But whatever the Harrises are doing, has kept their marriage seemingly intact. So good for them.
Back to top Go down
downwardspiral

downwardspiral


Posts : 216
Contribution Points : 42125
Forum Reputation : 306
Join date : 2020-03-02

What will be lost forever? Empty
PostSubject: Re: What will be lost forever?   What will be lost forever? Icon_minitimeThu Jun 25, 2020 1:23 am

badjunk wrote:
The Nixon tape, comes to mind. As compared to the Basement Tapes I haven't found much about it. More photos of Eric, too. But whatever the Harrises are doing, has kept their marriage seemingly intact. So good for them.

Interesting coincidence that it was called the Nixon tape and had almost no info released. And the Nixon (Watergate) tapes had that 18.5 minute gap.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




What will be lost forever? Empty
PostSubject: Re: What will be lost forever?   What will be lost forever? Icon_minitimeThu Jun 25, 2020 1:29 am

downwardspiral wrote:
badjunk wrote:
The Nixon tape, comes to mind. As compared to the Basement Tapes I haven't found much about it. More photos of Eric, too. But whatever the Harrises are doing, has kept their marriage seemingly intact. So good for them.

Interesting coincidence that it was called the Nixon tape and had almost no info released. And the Nixon (Watergate) tapes had that 18.5 minute gap.

I didn't even think to connect that, that is a very interesting coincidence indeed. Very strange that it is rarely talked about. Thanks for your reply. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
This is a good article about it. I would have thought investigators would have considered it relevant enough for release. Maybe Eric's parents didn't want to part with it.
Back to top Go down
downwardspiral

downwardspiral


Posts : 216
Contribution Points : 42125
Forum Reputation : 306
Join date : 2020-03-02

What will be lost forever? Empty
PostSubject: Re: What will be lost forever?   What will be lost forever? Icon_minitimeThu Jun 25, 2020 1:41 am

badjunk wrote:
I didn't even think to connect that, that is a very interesting coincidence indeed. Very strange that it is rarely talked about. Thanks for your reply. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
This is a good article about it. I would have thought investigators would have considered it relevant enough for release. Maybe Eric's parents didn't want to part with it.

Yeah I actually had never heard of it until now.

Although it does say in this thread that Randy Brown claimed the Nixon tape was "more damning than the Basement Tapes." No idea if that's true, but if so, I guess that would imply the families did get to hear it along with the Basement Tapes.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Back to top Go down
milennialrebelette

milennialrebelette


Posts : 248
Contribution Points : 60565
Forum Reputation : 725
Join date : 2018-10-28
Age : 32
Location : Littleton, CO

What will be lost forever? Empty
PostSubject: Re: What will be lost forever?   What will be lost forever? Icon_minitimeThu Jun 25, 2020 4:31 am

Onyx wrote:
milennialrebelette wrote:
Yeah I definitely feel this way after my mom died when right after I graduated high school in 2010, since she was friends with Kathy Harris, up until the shooting.

Wow, really?

Yeah, my mom lived caddy corner to the Harris's second house in Littleton. The first was in the same neighborhood less than a mile away across the greenbelt/Wayside Park. My sister was a year younger than Eric and when the Harrises moved in, Kathy was part of a group of moms who all knew each other because they had kids around my brother and sisters age, my brother being 2 years younger than my sister and a freshman during the shooting. Judy Brown was the mom who pushed her way into everything but wasn't well liked or invited. Columbine Knolls South, the offshoot of the Columbine Knolls neighborhood northeast of ours, wasn't a huge development and the moms had known each other since their kids were in preschool. I wasn't born until '91 so I was much younger.

But yeah, my mom and Kathy got along well. Kathy was a very quiet, shy, caring woman in a more old fashioned marriage with her more dominating military husband. My mom understood that, both my siblings and my dads were in the military as well, and my mom had divorced them because at heart she wasn't housewife material, she was a quirky artistic woman who happened to be raised in a large very conservative very Catholic Irish family in Littleton in the 60s/early 70s. She kind of saw Kathy as a lost soul, none of the other moms had military husbands, so they connected over that.

I remember her in our kitchen with my mom a lot drinking tea and talking. She was so gentle and kind. She didn't talk a lot when the other moms were around doing their Book Club or talking about the kids school and other stuff like that. I wish I had asked my mom more about her before she died. I really wish I knew how to get in contact with Kathy, I wasn't able to let her know when my mom passed away or when the funeral was. I'd like to reach out and let her know and just let her know she's still loved. My mom always saw the best in people. She was the only one who was nice to Judy Brown even. Mind you all the stuff the other moms in the neighborhood said and did, Judy brought upon herself.

Akknowslife, downwardspiral and johncena like this post

Back to top Go down
Babydoll

Babydoll


Posts : 57
Contribution Points : 41292
Forum Reputation : 25
Join date : 2020-02-06
Location : Somewhere

What will be lost forever? Empty
PostSubject: Re: What will be lost forever?   What will be lost forever? Icon_minitimeThu Jun 25, 2020 4:53 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] if you don't mind, could you provide with examples of what those moms said about Judy? I know she is known for being nosy, and some others find her annoying and that stuff, but I'd like to know what other people said specifically. Only if you want to.

milennialrebelette likes this post

Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




What will be lost forever? Empty
PostSubject: Re: What will be lost forever?   What will be lost forever? Icon_minitimeFri Jun 26, 2020 12:17 am

downwardspiral wrote:
badjunk wrote:
I didn't even think to connect that, that is a very interesting coincidence indeed. Very strange that it is rarely talked about. Thanks for your reply. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
This is a good article about it. I would have thought investigators would have considered it relevant enough for release. Maybe Eric's parents didn't want to part with it.

Yeah I actually had never heard of it until now.

Although it does say in this thread that Randy Brown claimed the Nixon tape was "more damning than the Basement Tapes." No idea if that's true, but if so, I guess that would imply the families did get to hear it along with the Basement Tapes.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Thanks for the link and your reply, the Nixon tape is quite relevant now that I hear that, maybe it was too short, but of course Rachel's dad released that 25 second audio clip of the Basement Tapes.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest




What will be lost forever? Empty
PostSubject: Re: What will be lost forever?   What will be lost forever? Icon_minitimeWed Jul 01, 2020 3:11 am

No surprise that Wayne and Kathy are avoiding the media like the plague because its basically known that Eric was "the leader" and Dylan the innocent little follower. So of course they arent going to share any information.
Back to top Go down
milennialrebelette

milennialrebelette


Posts : 248
Contribution Points : 60565
Forum Reputation : 725
Join date : 2018-10-28
Age : 32
Location : Littleton, CO

What will be lost forever? Empty
PostSubject: Re: What will be lost forever?   What will be lost forever? Icon_minitimeWed Jul 01, 2020 8:27 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] It was mostly her showing up uninvited. She wasn't well liked because of many reasons:
-Brooks was a bully of sorts.  He made fun of all the other kids for being dumb, liking pathetic popular music, not reading the high level books he did etc. My sister and her friend Jen got harrassed for liking New Kids On The Block in elementary school. Stuff like that.  Judy always defended him, saying he was just so intelligent and more mature than kids his age that he was some kind of genius and she wasn't going to publish him for speaking the truth. Kids and parents were thrilled when he went to CHIPS at Governors Ranch.
-She inserted herself rudely into private family struggles. One dad in the community had cancer and she'd show up unannounced when he was sick from chemo, and say how she's an expert and recommend all these fake homeopathic stuff and then later go around starting nasty rumors in the community about how it was his fault because he was a secret smoker or the wife was going to leave him for another man. Same crap she pulled with me and my mom when my mom was sick and dying and I had to take care of her while working FT and struggling through my senior year to graduate on time.
-She, like Brooks, just couldn't tell the truth. She'd tell the neighbors about fancy vacations, meeting famous people and becoming friends, when we knew they just went to Granby near Rocky Mtn National Park that Spring Break (which is a nice place and great vacation but apparently too plebian for her)
-Randy was a hard core conservative and conspiracy theorist.  He always talked about these secret assignments Randy was doing at his company for national security (Haha my dad was actual military intelligence and a full bird colonel the first full blinded kanaka maoli to reach that level, anyway because of this when I was older I just laughed at how untrue this was) and how we had to agree with their politics or  be harassed and bullied.
-She used racist terms, not that it was uncommon, but Asians were Oriental, she called my Native  Hawai'ian Polynesian a wog (which isn't even the correct slur) and was known to make really discriminatiory statements about people of color,  I was a frequent target same with my mom for marrying my dad  and divorcing twice etc.
-She bragged non stop. About Brooks the genius and how it was okay everyone else's kids were average. How their house was nicer with new remodeling. She'd exaggerate and lie about this kind of stuff too.

Anyway yeah she was not liked in the neighborhood. But she invited herself to Book Club, showed up for the mom's get togethers,  etc. There's more but off the top of my head right now there's a start

Hope that answers your questions!


Last edited by milennialrebelette on Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:17 am; edited 3 times in total
Back to top Go down
LPorter101
Top 10 Contributor
LPorter101


Posts : 2816
Contribution Points : 153679
Forum Reputation : 2764
Join date : 2013-12-02
Location : South Florida

What will be lost forever? Empty
PostSubject: Re: What will be lost forever?   What will be lost forever? Icon_minitimeWed Jul 01, 2020 8:55 pm

Quote :
-Brooks was a bully of sorts. He made fun of all the other kids for being dumb, liking pathetic popular music, not reading the high level books he did etc. My sister and her friend Jen got harrassed for liking New Kids On The Block in elementary school. Stuff like that. Judy always defended him, saying he was just so intelligent and more mature than kids his age that he was done kind of genius and she wasn't going to publish him for speaking the truth. Kids and parents were thrilled when he went to CHIPS at Governors Ranch.

I've read that he was an outspoken atheist who enjoyed mocking fundamentalist Christians.

_________________
Why does anyone do anything?

Sabratha and milennialrebelette like this post

Back to top Go down
Online
milennialrebelette

milennialrebelette


Posts : 248
Contribution Points : 60565
Forum Reputation : 725
Join date : 2018-10-28
Age : 32
Location : Littleton, CO

What will be lost forever? Empty
PostSubject: Re: What will be lost forever?   What will be lost forever? Icon_minitimeWed Jul 01, 2020 10:50 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Try all Christians. My ohana is Catholic, far from fundamentalists. He harassed my sister since they were in elementary school about it.
Back to top Go down
Babydoll

Babydoll


Posts : 57
Contribution Points : 41292
Forum Reputation : 25
Join date : 2020-02-06
Location : Somewhere

What will be lost forever? Empty
PostSubject: Re: What will be lost forever?   What will be lost forever? Icon_minitimeThu Jul 02, 2020 2:45 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] It definitely helped, thanks!

Also in Randy's book he repeatedly says that Brooks is so intelligent, so yes we get it 😂
Also Judy...doing Karen stuff.

milennialrebelette likes this post

Back to top Go down
Sabratha

Sabratha


Posts : 1704
Contribution Points : 99291
Forum Reputation : 440
Join date : 2015-04-01
Location : The Masovian Lowland

What will be lost forever? Empty
PostSubject: Re: What will be lost forever?   What will be lost forever? Icon_minitimeThu Jul 09, 2020 2:35 pm

To be honest, there is not much that is lost. The case, from a police standpoint, is closed. We know who did the crime, what happened and how.

The basement tapes are gone, but they were far less important than the diaries. Perpetrators are dead, so psychologists will never interview them. People will always debate their mental conditions and there will be different opinions.


LPorter101 wrote:
Quote :
-Brooks was a bully of sorts. He made fun of all the other kids for being dumb, liking pathetic popular music, not reading the high level books he did etc. My sister and her friend Jen got harrassed for liking New Kids On The Block in elementary school. Stuff like that. Judy always defended him, saying he was just so intelligent and more mature than kids his age that he was done kind of genius and she wasn't going to publish him for speaking the truth. Kids and parents were thrilled when he went to CHIPS at Governors Ranch.

I've read that he was an outspoken atheist who enjoyed mocking fundamentalist Christians.

Its been a long time since I read that, so forgive me if I can't post the links. But I remember more than one person expressing opinions that Brooks was a showoff and a troll in his teenage years. That he would deliberately express contrary or controversial opinions to piss people off. That if someone was a christian he would say radical atheist stuff, when one was an artsy kid he would attack them on that front etc.

_________________
Life is like a tram - you need to know when to get off.

"Bullet Time" - a school shooting film from Poland

milennialrebelette likes this post

Back to top Go down
milennialrebelette

milennialrebelette


Posts : 248
Contribution Points : 60565
Forum Reputation : 725
Join date : 2018-10-28
Age : 32
Location : Littleton, CO

What will be lost forever? Empty
PostSubject: Re: What will be lost forever?   What will be lost forever? Icon_minitimeThu Aug 06, 2020 2:03 am

Sabratha wrote:
Its been a long time since I read that, so forgive me if I can't post the links. But I remember more than one person expressing opinions that Brooks was a showoff and a troll in his teenage years. That he would deliberately express contrary or controversial opinions to piss people off. That if someone was a christian he would say radical atheist stuff, when one was an artsy kid he would attack them on that front etc.

Yes that describes Brooks to a T according to my siblings, especially my sister. He didn't have friends, he had people to prop up his superiority complex, who's background became the next issue for Brooks to rail against. He used Rachel in this way. My sister had complained about him to Rach for years since they were kids because of what a jerk he was, insulting her and friends music as vapid, the movies they liked as pedantic. Words my sister said she didn't knew what they meant but she knew they were mean because he called her stupid in the same tone.  

Because he and Rachel both smoked at the time, during debate practices and meets, they were both outside. She'd mentioned her belief in God at some point during a debate practice and since then Brooks was always on a roll to bitch about and tear to shreds what he believed to be anything about Christianity, and how only those incapable of complex thought could be appeased by a faith like Christianity. She told my sister shxe barely got a word in edge wise at first but then wh did he'd try to trip her up and attack her even more. Eventually she was able to make some comments about how she actually was open minded and didnt judge all non Christians and hoped to travel and meet new people with different beliefs.

Eventually she would try to hide from him and cut back on her smoking before quitting for her prom date. She told my sister she felt bad because he was lonely without many, well really any real friends, and she'd pray for him. But she also said that didn't mean she had to really like him.

Screamingophelia likes this post

Back to top Go down
milennialrebelette

milennialrebelette


Posts : 248
Contribution Points : 60565
Forum Reputation : 725
Join date : 2018-10-28
Age : 32
Location : Littleton, CO

What will be lost forever? Empty
PostSubject: Re: What will be lost forever?   What will be lost forever? Icon_minitimeThu Mar 18, 2021 11:38 am

Babydoll wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] It definitely helped, thanks!

Also in Randy's book he repeatedly says that Brooks is so intelligent, so yes we get it 😂
Also Judy...doing Karen stuff.

Judy was one of the original Karens. I can't believe I forgot to mention what a bad rep she had in a lot of the stores and restaurants. I worked at the Red Robin at Wads and Bowles across from Clement Park, since the summer before senior year through past graduation on and off for a little.

She was known for complaining about the most pedantic crap, always having super detailed special orders that she claimed weren't right when they were brought out. She was nasty and condescending to retail and food service workers.

If the shooting never happened, Judy. Randy and Brooks would still be massively disliked by the Columbine community, including the school and the neighborhoods.

Moonqueen31 likes this post

Back to top Go down
lognifiiskurk
Top 10 Contributor
lognifiiskurk


Posts : 1089
Contribution Points : 62089
Forum Reputation : 175
Join date : 2020-07-18

What will be lost forever? Empty
PostSubject: Re: What will be lost forever?   What will be lost forever? Icon_minitimeSat Mar 27, 2021 12:56 am

I doubt that the Harrises will ever speak out like Sue Klebold did and so most of what Eric was like behind the scenes (except for the Eric in Columbine video) is most likely lost. Hopefully the depostions that get released in around 6 years will shed more light on both Eric and Dylan, but for now who they were before the shooting is lost.

_________________
"One day I might just disappear and you will never find me. Nobody will ever find me"
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content





What will be lost forever? Empty
PostSubject: Re: What will be lost forever?   What will be lost forever? Icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 
What will be lost forever?
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Columbine site is lost forever
» The "psychopath" and the "little, lost puppy dog".
» Eric Harris - ceasing to exist, dead and gone forever.
» Lost Highway
» Lost Eric's wads

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum :: Columbine High School Massacre Discussion Forum :: Thoughts on the Shooting-
Jump to: