Dylan and reincarnation

I was re-reading Dylan's journals and was thinking more and more about the symbols and drawings he uses (including the thought boxes--lol), and the quote I have added below in my signature line ("I will have a love, someone who is me in a way. Someday...possibly thru this life, maybe another, but it will happen..." --DK, The Book of Existences) which makes me wonder if one of the reasons he didn't seem to care much about dying (in fact, wanted to) as well as killing people was his belief in reincarnation, another life beyond this, which would be ostensibly much better. I also wonder if he ever shared these thoughts with Eric (or anyone else), but I honestly doubt it.

Do you think he believed there would be an afterlife for his victims as well?

Eric seemed to have a belief in an afterlife too. Or at least he acknowledged the possibility of one and expressed his hopes for what it would be like.

I've always thought that the belief in reincarnation was a coping mechanism for the fear humans have of their own deaths. If you believe that death isn't the true end but the beginning of something new then death becomes less "real" and scary. Do you believe this may have influenced E/D to kill? They seemed to hate the lives they lived, perhaps they wanted a "do-over" as much as they wanted revenge.

I think that was one of the influences that affected them. They both seemed to believe the afterlife would be better than here .Eric said once that he thought death might be like being in a dream state. Neither seemed to have any fear of being punished which puzzles me but I think that may be because neither of them seems to have been brought up in a very religious environment where a fear of punishment would have likely been taught. That's not to blame their parents for anything of course.


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browneyes11 wrote:

I've always thought that the belief in reincarnation was a coping mechanism for the fear humans have of their own deaths. If you believe that death isn't the true end but the beginning of something new then death becomes less "real" and scary. Do you believe this may have influenced E/D to kill? They seemed to hate the lives they lived, perhaps they wanted a "do-over" as much as they wanted revenge.

I've always wondered if E/D's families followed any religion pre-Columbine or after. Both E/D seemed to have a strong hatred for Christians. What could have caused this? Lack of religion growing up or perhaps their hate for authority. Religion/God being the "highest authority" might have been a reason for this hatred

Dylan's family was actually Jewish. I'm not sure if they still are or not. It's interesting considering his and Eric's fascination with Hitler.

I've always heard it started with them seeing certain students who strongly identified as Christian bully and harass others.

browneyes11 wrote:

I've always wondered if E/D's families followed any religion pre-Columbine or after. Both E/D seemed to have a strong hatred for Christians. What could have caused this? Lack of religion growing up or perhaps their hate for authority. Religion/God being the "highest authority" might have been a reason for this hatred

I don't know how it is in Colorado, but in the American South, where I live, religion (especially Christianity) is widely accepted. If you choose to not believe, you will quickly become an outsider. And if you try to express views that contradict their beliefs....yeah...good luck with that is all I can say. I would say 95% of my high school practiced some kind of religion. If you didn't believe and didn't want to believe, you would be shut out.

browneyes11 wrote:

Do you think he believed there would be an afterlife for his victims as well?

Good question, I think perhaps he did, which may have made it easier for him to do what he did to what he saw as "zombies."

Its strange to think of Dylan believing in an afterlife for his victims. He had a very superior attitude towards them. They were "zombies" and he was "godlike". I can't say he didn't believe there would be an afterlife for them, however I doubt he believed that he would go to the same afterlife as his victims.

Murder isn't such a big deal if you believe that death is the beginning not the end. I bet this belief did influence both E/D at least a little bit.

browneyes11 wrote:

I can't say he didn't believe there would be an afterlife for them, however I doubt he believed that he would go to the same afterlife as his victims.

Murder isn't such a big deal if you believe that death is the beginning not the end. I bet this belief did influence both E/D at least a little bit.

Both good points, I would tend to agree.

Browneyes11 has a good perspective on this. Evangelical Christians are very devout, and they are the predominant religion in the Midwest and the Southern States in America. There is a great documentary called "Jesus Camp" that really shows you how strong they believe. Taken from an outsider's perspective the documentary seems insane, which was part of the intent. Large congregations of Evangelicals can become everything that people hate about organized religion. They can make en entire small community feel like a population of exclusionary bigots in some cases. Columbine had a problem with this too.

Brooks Brown said that the whole Nazi thing was to "ruffle feathers". I don't think they were Nazis in any way, I think that Eric mostly liked the aesthetic because he spoke German.

Fun fact: one of Rammstein's songs is a cookie recipe spoken in German : )

browneyes11 wrote:

I've always wondered if E/D's families followed any religion pre-Columbine or after. Both E/D seemed to have a strong hatred for Christians. What could have caused this? Lack of religion growing up or perhaps their hate for authority. Religion/God being the "highest authority" might have been a reason for this hatred

Dylans mother was Jewish, and Judaism is passed through families by the mother so technically Dylan was a Jew, or at least son of one. IIRC his family also celebrated some other Christian religion, something like Lutheran or one of those types. Can't remember where I got that from so don't fully count me on it.

radaddio wrote:

Fun fact: one of Rammstein's songs is a cookie recipe spoken in German : )

I'm sorry to derail this thread, everyone.

But, radaddio, which song from Rammstein are you referring to? Are you possibly confusing it with Tool's "Die Eier Von Satan"?

"Die Eier Von Satan" is a song from Tool's 1996 album "Ænima". The lyrics are performed by Marko Fox; someone who is not actually a member of Tool, but from the band Zaum (Tool's drummer is actually a part of Zaum).

The lyrics are a recipe for cookies that Marko's grandmother used to make for him as a child. The recipe does not contain eggs. And the title "Die Eier Von Satan" translates to "The Eggs of Satan"; which makes it a play on "deviled eggs". And the word "eier" in German not only means "eggs", but it's also a slang word for "testicles", further pushing the tongue-in-cheek element of this track.

The music and sound effects that were used give it a very "industrial" sound, and being that the lyrics are in German, perhaps it makes some confused about who is performing it.

I'm sorry, you're absolutely right. It was Tool, not Rammstein. A friend of mine had a German GF who was translating the song at a party. I may have bee a teensy bit plastered then ;)

radaddio wrote:

I'm sorry, you're absolutely right. It was Tool, not Rammstein. A friend of mine had a German GF who was translating the song at a party. I may have bee a teensy bit plastered then ;)

HAHAHA!! You don't need to apologize! I've seen people posting things (in multiple different places), saying they think the vocals "sound like Till Lindemann", or asking if it's him.

browneyes11 wrote:

Its strange to think of Dylan believing in an afterlife for his victims. He had a very superior attitude towards them. They were "zombies" and he was "godlike". I can't say he didn't believe there would be an afterlife for them, however I doubt he believed that he would go to the same afterlife as his victims.

Murder isn't such a big deal if you believe that death is the beginning not the end. I bet this belief did influence both E/D at least a little bit.

Makes sense, Dylan did seem to believe in some sort of afterlife, but given his writing I do not think he believe in a "zombie afterlife" or at least not that zombies would go to the same place where he went. Here's the alleged basement tape "goodbye" quote (from the day of the shooting early morning):

Dylan Klebold wrote:

Hey mom. Gotta go. It's about a half an hour before our little judgment day. I just wanted to apologize to you guys for any crap this might instigate as far as (inaudible) or something. Just know I'm going to a better place. I didn't like life too much and I know I'll be happy wherever the fuck I go. So I'm gone. Good-bye.

Eric? I think its a different story. Eric never mentions an afterlife IIRC. Also Eric makes a sort apearance in the same basement tape as the above quoted Dylan, bu he never mentions anything regarding life after death. I think it is intentional. Eric believed in science and darwinism and I think was opposed to religious beliefs in an afterlife. Just one more thing they difered in regards to.

I take it abck. I recall Eric once mentions something along the lines of: "If ghiost exist I hope we come back to haunt people and make them miserable".

IIRC it was in the reports about the contents of the basement tapes. Everyone feel free to correct me on that, my memory is fuzzy.

However, if it was eric he may have been making this as a tongue-in-cheek thing. Hard to say witgout seeing it in context, but I'd expect it not to be a serious statement, just Eric making fun of things.

Eric did say the following about an afterlife:

"Hopefully, death is like being in a dream state."

"It would be neat if the afterlife including seeing mysteries like the deepest part of the pacific ocean."

"We'll come back if there is a way and haunt survivors"

E &D also spoke on the tapes of the fun that could be had as ghosts making scary noises and so on.

That is all I know of that he ever said on the subject.

I do not recall hearing about the pacific ocean thing. Where did you find that one?

It was in one of the articles that had quotes from the BT. Here you go:

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PaintItBlack wrote:

It was in one of the articles that had quotes from the BT. Here you go:

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Thanks for sharing this, PaintItBlack, some of these (indirect) quotes I hadn't heard of before, including the Pacific Ocean bit, and Klebold telling future followers to "do it right." Fascinating article.

Can we assume the Scripps Howard journalists, Karen Abbott and Dan Luzadder, actually watched the tapes themselves?

PaintItBlack wrote:

It was in one of the articles that had quotes from the BT. Here you go:

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Interesting, some parts we already knew of, some (to me) are new. I wasn't aware that they made fun of people by quoting them in squeaky voices, although its not really surprising (even adults do it with politicians all the time). Badmouthing people they know - again not news to me.

Dylan speaking fondly of his mother? That's news to me. Not that I thoght Dylan hated his mom, but I thought he would deliberately avoid talking diectly about his parents.

"When you find a body of one, he's a sophomore...Look for his jaw. It won't be on his body" -Dylan

DAMN. That is one of the scariest quotes I've heard from Dylan. I wonder who he is referring too...?

browneyes11 wrote:

"When you find a body of one, he's a sophomore...Look for his jaw. It won't be on his body" -Dylan

DAMN. That is one of the scariest quotes I've heard from Dylan. I wonder who he is referring too...?

Dylan was pretty vicious in his own right and has himself taunted people in the library before shooting them. Eric was not the only one who was geting a kick out of this massacre.

I think both Langman and Cullen miss the sadistic, cruel Dylan hich was certainly there.

That just goes to show that, they may have targeted kids younger than them.
Weren't most of their victims sophomores?

browneyes11 wrote:

That just goes to show that, they may have targeted kids younger than them.
Weren't most of their victims sophomores?

They were, as awll as freshmen, but it was by all evidence just a random group. There's little to indicate taht any of th victims was specifically targeted, all seems to point that it was all about being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Most killings took place in the library and even that seems to have been sparked by a random event - Dylan seeing a special needs kid and killing him.

There were several people who were not killed by Eric and Dylan sinply because at that particular time E&D were occupied with somethign else. Prime example is the cafeteria, they went in and turned all their attention at the bombs, entirely ignoring kids who were still in the cafeteria hiding under tables.

I do not think that there was any rhyme or reason once teh shooting started. Their plan of bomb-and-then=-shoot-victims failed, they had no backup plan and just started shooting randomly at the nearest person they saw.

browneyes11 wrote:

"When you find a body of one, he's a sophomore...Look for his jaw. It won't be on his body" -Dylan

DAMN. That is one of the scariest quotes I've heard from Dylan. I wonder who he is referring too...?

Brandon Larson. One of the reasons is Brandon Larson's buddy named Dan Lab punched Eric in the face, and there was a little rivalry between Dan/Larson vs Eric/Dylan.

I believe Eric even discusses it via notes with Kristi Epling calling Brandon Larson a "dickhead" or something. He referred to him as, "Dan's friend".

Dylan and his brother went to Confirmation classes and the family attended services at a Lutheran church for a short time. The reverend from that church later presided over Dylan's funeral.

WendlaBergman wrote:

Dylan and his brother went to Confirmation classes and the family attended services at a Lutheran church for a short time. The reverend from that church later presided over Dylan's funeral.

So Dylan would of been more spiritual? It appears that way.