Who "masterminded" robbing the van?

To follow-up on somethign mentioned by Nirvana92

Nirvana92 wrote:

I've always wondered if their friendship would have held up if they'd been caught <during the shooting>. Would they have turned on each other for a lighter sentence/punishment?

Well, I think its a good question. We can look at their diversion and the interview with Walsh to see how they reacted to that.

Dylan's version stated to Walsh was that both came to the idea for robbign teh van about the same time.
Eric's version? Eric said that it was Dylan who came up with the idea to rob the van.

Which one was real? Hard to say. I think the notion taht they came to the conclusion "at the same time" is particularly unlikley. So it was either:

A) It was Dylan's idea and Dylan wants to shift part of the blame on Eric. Eric is just telling the truth.
B) It was Eric's idea, but Dylan wants to take some of the blame while Eric is blatantly lying to shift all the blame away from himself.

I don't know which one is true to be honest.

Eric's version seems more plausible than the "both at the same time" that Dylan offers.

But we know otherwise that it was Eric who was more implusive, more afraid of his parents and probably more willing to lie to authorities to their faces. So who knows?

I wouldn't be surprised it it was Dylan who said it first (half in jest) then Eric forced the issue. Pretty much how I see the massacre went to be honest.

Radioactive_Clothing wrote:

I wouldn't be surprised it it was Dylan who said it first (half in jest) then Eric forced the issue. Pretty much how I see the massacre went to be honest.

That actually makes a lot of sense.

Exactly what I thought!! ^^^^

I stated in the other thread. Great minds think alike

I see Dylan as the "idea man" while I see Eric as the "action man"
Dylan may have thought of it first but Eric made it happen.
That's how I see their friendship at least.

If they had been caught during the shooting and arrested....

Hmm, I'm not sure. I don't think Dylan would have turned on Eric but then again he might.
Plotting and attempting a massacre is a far worse crime than breaking into a van
so I imagine they would react differently to being caught before the shooting.
I don't think either one of them would have allowed themselves to be caught alive.

However, just for the sake of discussion let's say they were caught and taken into custody
I can totally see Eric trying to place the blame on Dylan. "It was his idea. He talked me into it..etc"
However with all the evidence against Eric in his own journal and in his room I highly doubt the jury would believe him.
During the van break-in interview, Dylan's version stated to Walsh was that both came to the idea for robbing the van about the same time. To me this can mean two things. 1) It was Dylan's idea and he didn't want to take all the blame OR 2) It was Eric's idea and he didn't want to throw his friend under the bus so he decides to share the blame
I can see Dylan taking a similar route if he was caught before the massacre. He may even refuse to speak at all. However I bet Dylan's parents would blame Eric and possibly Dylan's lawyer would try to convince Dylan to turn on Eric in order to get a lighter sentence. But I just can't see Dylan ratting Eric out, personally.

What do you guys think?

Hard to say. The more I think about it, the more it seems like Eric would be the more willing to turn on Dylan if they got caught.

For Dylan this would seem lik e the end of his whole world. Gettng caught would devastate Eric too, but for Eric this douln't be the end of all things, just "being back at square one".

Dylan was internally-oriented. Eric extrnally.

Dylan was on a huge self-absorbed, emotional, pseudo-religious suicidal crusade.

Eric was just fighting a war.

He'd just try to coutn his losses and go on to fight another battle, another day.

I've always believed some part of Eric wanted to get caught. I'm not sure whether its because of guilt or because the manipulative side loved the idea of having to pull off an "ultimate lie" to everyone. At the same time he would still get the attention he wanted. He wouldn't have gone down in history as he has, but people would have still known what he was planning. The parents, the police, and everyone at school would have known the hate he was capable of unleashing without actually having to do it. He could have played the angry and depressed card to try and get out of it, all while still feeling some glory. That's why I don't think hed let Dylan take all the blame. His pride wouldn't allow someone else to take credit for what he considered to be his genius plan. Plus if he got caught he'd want and NEED people to fear him as much as possible. It would make up for the crushed ego that would be brought along by being caught in the first place.

I don't think Eric wanted to get caught, especially seeing hiow he hated getting caught by Walsh for a minor offence.

I'm sayign he would cope with it better than Dylan.

Radioactive_Clothing wrote:

I wouldn't be surprised it it was Dylan who said it first (half in jest) then Eric forced the issue. Pretty much how I see the massacre went to be honest.

Exactly.

I think that from their testimonies we can pretty safely imagine what happened... went somewhat like

"hmm... look at that, plenty of easily-accessible goodies inside that van! And no one around!"
"... yeah, tempting, huh?"

with Dylan being technically the first of the two to officially "come up with the idea" during the convo. It doesn't take much to be the first of the two to bring it up! Even if the other basically reads your mind... and agrees (i.e. both having the idea at the same time.)

I don't think either of them flat out lied. It's perfectly plausible that they'd both tell something very close to (their own perception of) the truth.

In fact I am absolutely convinced they're both telling pretty much the truth.

Wasn't it Dylan who actually broke the window?

Both of them did ^

Dylan tried at first, and failed. Eric tried too then and failed. Then Dylan used a rock to bash it in multiple times.

^ I know this is an old thread and I'm straying from the topic a bit, but did anyone else kinda 'lol' at the fact that they both tried to be tough guys and punch out the glass but ultimately couldn't do it? I mean are passenger windshields really that tough? (I personally have never tested one myself) And according to Eric they used a pretty big rock to do the job and it still took like 7 hits. Its surprising to me that a guy who is 6'4 and a guy who punches walls When angry struggled so much to take out a passenger window. If it was me I would've taken that as a sign to leave it alone!

"I wouldn't be surprised it it was Dylan who said it first (half in jest) then Eric forced the issue. Pretty much how I see the massacre went to be honest." I agree.

I think the van incident went down in a way exactly like the massacre. Dylan prompted/initiated the idea and Eric was the one who kept the act going. Eric went with it, he was like..how to say, the one who makes the action happen out of an idea. I feel Eric told the truth throughout.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] "That's why I don't think hed let Dylan take all the blame. His pride wouldn't allow someone else to take credit for what he considered to be his genius plan. Plus if he got caught he'd want and NEED people to fear him as much as possible. It would make up for the crushed ego that would be brought along by being caught in the first place." - really great way of seeing it Nirvana!

Kiwik wrote:

^ I know this is an old thread and I'm straying from the topic a bit, but did anyone else kinda 'lol' at the fact that they both tried to be tough guys and punch out the glass but ultimately couldn't do it? I mean are passenger windshields really that tough? (I personally have never tested one myself) And according to Eric they used a pretty big rock to do the job and it still took like 7 hits. Its surprising to me that a guy who is 6'4 and a guy who punches walls When angry struggled so much to take out a passenger window. If it was me I would've taken that as a sign to leave it alone!

It is def harder than you think. Not impossible but you can youtube videos of people trying. Sometimes the object you use makes a difference.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wow definitely interesting, I had no idea it could be that difficult (also never thought to look it up on youtube)!

I still think the effort it took to break into that van should have been a warning sign for them to back off and leave it alone! But typical teenagers, not thining of the consequences...