"Are you still with me? We're still going to do this right?"

Apparently Eric walks first in the library, then Dylan and then the exchange above happened

In your opinion which of the 2 killers said this?

Eric. In the confusion of the attack he may have mistaken Dylan's fumbling around with his clips and pipe-bombs for being only halfheartedly participating. Dylan's weapons sucked and he was a gawky dude, so when Neil Gardner showed up, Eric seemed to be the only one firing at him.

This may be why shortly after these words were supposedly spoken, Dylan shouts out "EVERYBODY GET UP NOW!" and then shoots Kyle.

Eric said it, but not because he was mistaken. Dylan did not participate to the same extent as Eric in the initial phase of the attack.

Outside Eric shot 47 rounds while Dylan shot only 5. Eric killed two people and shot 6 more while Dylan only shot people who had already been shot by Harris, and never fatally outside.

Dylan went inside the cafeteria and faced a crowd of students but failed to discharge his weapon. While Eric engaged law enforcement Dylan also roamed the halls but failed to hit anyone, except for shooting at Stephanie Munson's feet.

Dylan only began to commit homicides after Eric criticized him for failing to participate. This shows that Dylan was a follower. He couldn't do it until Eric told him to and then he went berserk to try and impress Eric.

If true that Dylan was trying to impress Eric, I think thats sad. If on his own, do you think Dylan would have carried out the shooting?

lasttrain wrote:

Eric said it, but not because he was mistaken.  Dylan did not participate to the same extent as Eric in the initial phase of the attack.

Outside Eric shot 47 rounds while Dylan shot only 5.  Eric killed two people and shot 6 more while Dylan only shot people who had already been shot by Harris, and never fatally outside.  

Dylan went inside the cafeteria and faced a crowd of students but failed to discharge his weapon.  While Eric engaged law enforcement Dylan also roamed the halls but failed to hit anyone, except for shooting at Stephanie Munson's feet.

Dylan only began to commit homicides after Eric criticized him for failing to participate.  This shows that Dylan was a follower.  He couldn't do it until Eric told him to and then he went berserk to try and impress Eric.

We are talking about the same Dylan Klebold who told Lance Kirklin "Sure, I'll help you," and then shot him in the face, right?

This is the same Dylan Klebold who wrote about going on a shooting spree - without Eric - as early as November 1997.

Gusto brings a good point but..seriously lasttrain? Spoken like a true Cullenist.

Did it not have anything to do with that Dylan's weapons sucked? I mean seriously...a Tec 9? His weapons were only good firing at close range, not distance like Eric's Carbine.

This "Dylan follower" crap has got to stop. They both murdered people. Dylan taunted many people before killing them. Dylan was ready to go. Dylan wrote going on a shooting spree before Eric.

As a matter of fact for Dylan he spoke on 2 seperate occasions on going NBK with someone not named Eric Harris.

He didnt fully accept going NBK with Eric till Jan 99. While Eric thought the whole time Dylan was behind him when he wasnt. Dylan used Eric.

IMO Eric was the follower. Devon said it herself. Eric made most of his close friends because of Dylan.

Oh yeah this "follower" also told John Savage to leave, and told Eric to back down. The "follower" also told Eric to shoot Bree. For a follower why between the 2 many witnesses stated "the tall guy" seemed to be the leader?

LPorter101 wrote:

lasttrain wrote:

Eric said it, but not because he was mistaken.  Dylan did not participate to the same extent as Eric in the initial phase of the attack.

Outside Eric shot 47 rounds while Dylan shot only 5.  Eric killed two people and shot 6 more while Dylan only shot people who had already been shot by Harris, and never fatally outside.  

Dylan went inside the cafeteria and faced a crowd of students but failed to discharge his weapon.  While Eric engaged law enforcement Dylan also roamed the halls but failed to hit anyone, except for shooting at Stephanie Munson's feet.

Dylan only began to commit homicides after Eric criticized him for failing to participate.  This shows that Dylan was a follower.  He couldn't do it until Eric told him to and then he went berserk to try and impress Eric.

We are talking about the same Dylan Klebold who told Lance Kirklin "Sure, I'll help you," and then shot him in the face, right?

This is the same Dylan Klebold who wrote about going on a shooting spree - without Eric - as early as November 1997.

lasttrain:

Not to mention the same Dylan Klebold that came tearing full-speed into the school parking lot on the day of the  attack; the same Dylan who kept his "trench-coat killer" short story on hand to read through before the attack; the same Dylan who set the bombs; the same Dylan that wrote have fun as a reminder to himself in his last notes prior to the attack. Also the same Dylan who is whooping it up on the 911 tapes. The same Dylan who ignited the primer-tanks on the propane bomb with a Molotov cocktail and the same Dylan who is holding up his Tec-9 on the Caf. surveillance camera (after the library murders) like a true killer.

Once again: Dylan's weapons were crap. His shotgun was very slow-loading; the Tec-9 jammed repeatedly. He only had one functioning clip by the time they entered the school.

Dylan was never a follower. NBK was his idea.

Please see this video:

Not to mention Dylan was snapping his fingers at Eric to hurry the hell up in the Basement Tapes while they were saying their goodbyes

The same Dylan also wrote the notes not only in his planner, but Eric's also. He had "have fun" on his planner and in Erics planner he wrote "11:17- HAHAHAHAHA"

Quote :

We are talking about the same Dylan Klebold who told Lance Kirklin "Sure, I'll help you," and then shot him in the face, right?

This is the same Dylan Klebold who wrote about going on a shooting spree - without Eric - as early as November 1997.

by the way - writin' inpirational texts may help some students (or other people).
by makin' promises and not really killing the initial targets, dylan had to regard himself as a loser - nothin' more than zero (like coke zero for anorectic models, cynically speaking) - so - eric lost everything and only his peers could have stopped him.
dylan was suicidal / depressed etc. anyway - so why didn't he take luvox or prozac to really "impress" eric, but kept on drinkin' and takin' his "plants" or whatever?
dylan as a follower - okay.
however - eric as a disappointed freaky-some one? - i don't agree.
it's much more impressive to get rid of psycho drugs - especially while bein' the first loser (like his parents probably wil have told him by comparing him to Kevin) - and keepin' up to personal goals (suceeding generally) and stickin' to the rules of littleton plus comin' to terms with his psychosocial circumstances.

that said - actuaylly, i do not know anything about scholar chips, chips (as dylans childhood programm to integrate him and strenghn his self-confidence (and make him compatible for class mates and famil etc.)) or his so called "in ya face attiude", but - his emo writings were influenced by so much zeitgeist - fuckin' up eric - maybe...

why do people call eric "the loser" / maker / doer?

collecting other students' garbage and makin' friends with black jack pizza's could have been respected - even by his and dylan's family, brooks, zack, and all the others plus their so called "copy cats" .

whatever - greetz
nightshiftstalker

by the way - bein' called a "psyco" is really horrible - it makes one feel like never bein' able to be accepted (or just respected) by your folks, i think.

With all due respect Nightshiftstalker, what in the actual fuck are you talking about?

lol wrote:

With all due respect Nightshiftstalker, what in the actual fuck are you talking about?

maybe be i've posted in the wrong thread, lol - sorry.

anyways - i'm not too sure about different ratings cocerning actions (not only during the actual "nbk") and seriously discussing movtivational factors - and slightly human inability / inabilities to really understand what did happen - and what could have been, if - - -

i still think, that dylan only searched for some one bein' his invisile hand with a loud BANG, BANG! - while eric would not drift apart in depression by struggling for his family, the community and dylan?
yeah - dylan was shy, tall, and intelligent - eric was smaller, maybe a little more intelligent and gifetd by his parents' connections and the latest actions before 04-20.

it's nothing wrong with "helping each other" and BLAH - but - why is great poser like dylan the doer - and eric is not?
or do you mean - the two of them were equal?

lol wrote:

Apparently Eric walks first in the library, then Dylan and then the exchange above happened

In your opinion which of the 2 killers said this?

Didn't this exchange happen AFTER the murders in the library happened?
I thought this was said during their final return to the library just before the suicides?

browneyes11 wrote:

lol wrote:

Apparently Eric walks first in the library, then Dylan and then the exchange above happened

In your opinion which of the 2 killers said this?

Didn't this exchange happen AFTER the murders in the library happened?
I thought this was said during their final return to the library just before the suicides?

I think the exchanged happened the first time they entered the Library.

As for Dylan not shooting much outside, he did indeed have shitty weapons. Personally, I think the double barrel shotgun was pointless. It takes too much time to take out the empty casings, reload it and then only take 2 shot (2 shots from different barrels with different triggers. Not even 2 consecutive shots). And he was having problems with the Tec-9 outside. That is why he left a nearly full magazine outside that held 50 rounds of ammunition.

I do not for a second believe Dylan was ever a follower. Everything that I've read leads me to believe Dylan thought of the idea first, Dylan was the one impatient to carry it out and die. Eric was the one having second thoughts. Eric was the one feeling guilty the days and weeks before. Eric was the one crying on video.

Sure, on the day of the massacre Eric may have started shooting first and took the lead but that in no way means that he was the leader or that Dylan didn't participate just as much as Eric. Dylan even SAID that he was going to be very nervous and 'shaking like a leaf' at first. But once he got warmed up, he turned into a madman.

I believe that it was Dylan who said it. He was more talkative during the carnage as Brook mentioned Dylan behaved like he was at a party and had time of his life while Eric was more quiet as if in his own world. Therefore, I think that Dylan was the one who needed more assurances and asked that question.

Ignoring the whole "Dylan is a follower" bullshit.

I still IMO feel Dylan was the one who said this to Eric. Why?

Eric's goal was to have as many deaths as possible. When the bombs don't go off dumb ass Cullen says how "Eric was unflappable" and Dylan was basically worried. Based on what? Did he decide to go look into Eric and Dylan's minds? Was Cullen an angel following them? He is such a dumb ass. Anyway when the bombs go off their movements seemed random...almost as if they don't know what the hell they'll do next. Witnesses heard one of the gunmen say, "Go go!" to start the schooling. IMO this is Eric, but it must have really bummed the guy out after a year of planning and high expectations that nothing happened. They expected those propane bombs to blow.

I should mention that they put those propane bombs next to a JOCK TABLE *cough*
Anyway, as a few posters and myself said Dylan's weapons sucked balls. It explains why he didn't shoot as much outside.

Eric might have been a bit riled up that the bombs didn't go off (he even admitted he had a short temper problem). Dylan saw this and before they entered in the library, and he asked Eric if "they're still going to go through with this" because the bombs failed to detonate, and possibly rattled him.

Look Dylan was ready to die on 4/20. Nothing was stopping him...whether the bombs go off or not. Wasn't it Dylan who didn't give a fuck where he went when he died? Wasn't it Dylan who was far more cold in the Basement Tapes than Eric, and rarely showed any remorse? He thanked his parents for "self-awareness". What the hell kind of 'thanks' Is that? It's a middle finger type, that's what. Wasn't it Eric the one crying on the video tapes? Wasn't it Eric constantly being remorseful, and probably genuine? Wasn't it Eric who kept apologizing to his parents over and over? Wasn't it Eric who was also apologizing to his friends? Wasn't it Dylan the one snapping his fingers telling Reb to hurry up on the Basement Tapes because he was anxious to die??

Nothing was stopping Dylan that day on 4/20. That is why I believe he asked Eric,
"Are you still with me? We're going to do this right?"
Eric probably nodded, or said, "Yes" and he was the first one who told everyone to "GET UP!"

I can't be sure who said it. Moreover I think we have so far skipped another important question - we have no certain idea what precisely this question was about.

Suicide?
Shooting at cops?
Killing people point blank?
Making some sort of an in-joke? ("So, this must be the library?" etc)
Blowing up the school with the bombs?

Most seem to assue it refers to NBK as a whole including suicide.

I think the last option is most likley - its a quetsion about trying to blow the bombs. I think Dylan asked Eric if he wants to try to set the bombs off "manually", as it was Dylan who checked up on the bombs early on and was focused on suicide.

So I assume the exchange was like this:

Dylan: "Are you still with me? We're still going to do this right?"
Eric: "Sure, but I want to shoot some of these losers here in the library first". (or something of this sort).

That's how I guess it probably was.

I always thought it might be Dylan's asking if Eric was okay - Eric's nose was broken and he was probably kind of woozy.

LPorter101 wrote:

lasttrain wrote:

Eric said it, but not because he was mistaken.  Dylan did not participate to the same extent as Eric in the initial phase of the attack.

Outside Eric shot 47 rounds while Dylan shot only 5.  Eric killed two people and shot 6 more while Dylan only shot people who had already been shot by Harris, and never fatally outside.  

Dylan went inside the cafeteria and faced a crowd of students but failed to discharge his weapon.  While Eric engaged law enforcement Dylan also roamed the halls but failed to hit anyone, except for shooting at Stephanie Munson's feet.

Dylan only began to commit homicides after Eric criticized him for failing to participate.  This shows that Dylan was a follower.  He couldn't do it until Eric told him to and then he went berserk to try and impress Eric.

We are talking about the same Dylan Klebold who told Lance Kirklin "Sure, I'll help you," and then shot him in the face, right?

This is the same Dylan Klebold who wrote about going on a shooting spree - without Eric - as early as November 1997.

Well you took the words straight out of my mouth there LPorter.

I think the "Dylan was dragging the hesistant and questioning Eric along for the massacre" notion that Krabbe puts forward at one point is absurd. But the notion taht Dylan was just trying to impress Eric and was there just for the suicide is bonkers as well.

Both killed people point-blank execution style. Both taunted people before they died. Both had violent fantasies (though Eric was smart enough to keep the vivid ones in his journal, while dylan was dumb enough to turn it in as crative writing). Both clearly engaged targets on their own accord. Nobody was there "just for the ride"

LPorter101 wrote:

I always thought it might be Dylan's asking if Eric was okay - Eric's nose was broken and he was probably kind of woozy.

That's unlikely, as people reported this being said very early on in the library, amongst the "intro" quotes like "So, guess this must be the library?" and the "Everyone stand up!" ones.

Overall it was probably said before they killed anyone in the library and almost certainly before Eric broke his nose.

eli27 wrote:

If true that Dylan was trying to impress Eric, I think thats sad. If on his own, do you think Dylan would have carried out the shooting?

No way.

-The OP topic says it all
-Dylan was visiting future college dorm room with his family just a week or two prior
-Dylan was at Prom a few days prior
-Erics Dad knew it was him.. Dylan's had no clue
-Many friends and classmates were surprised Dylan could do it, I dont remember anyone shocked Eric was involved.

Fatheroftwo wrote:

eli27 wrote:

If true that Dylan was trying to impress Eric, I think thats sad. If on his own, do you think Dylan would have carried out the shooting?

No way.

-The OP topic says it all
-Dylan was visiting future college dorm room with his family just a week or two prior
-Dylan was at Prom a few days prior
-Erics Dad knew it was him..  Dylan's had no clue
-Many friends and classmates were surprised Dylan could do it, I dont remember anyone shocked Eric was involved.

Its of course all speculation, but I disagree. Dylan was depressed with or without Eric. Dylan's behavioral patterns and motives correspond much more to those for lone shooters - Cho, Jeff, Saari, Steinhauser...

I think that if nothing changed in his mindset, Dylan could have blew up on campus like Cho did.

Eric was, frankly, a pretty rare type as far as spree-suicide killers go. I can't be sure, but I think Eric alone would still be a pretty dysfunctional, malignant member of society. But I think its more likley he would be busted for more crimes like fraud, absue of confidential information, tax evasion etc
Maybe he would commit murder later on. I'm not so sure about Eric on his own going suicidal.

Eric hated society, and wanted to escape beign a part of it,. But even then, suicide seems to have been the odd choice for him even when around Dylan. Dylan was giddy about suicide and gleefully shouted during the attack: "Today is the day I'm gonna die!". Eric in turn shouted stuff like: "Who wants to die next?!" at victims.

There's a difference.

Eric hated to conform, hated being a part of society. But would he alone decide to choose suicide as a way of not participating in society? I somewhat doubt it. He imho would have tried different things first.

Sabratha wrote:

Fatheroftwo wrote:

eli27 wrote:

If true that Dylan was trying to impress Eric, I think thats sad. If on his own, do you think Dylan would have carried out the shooting?

No way.

-The OP topic says it all
-Dylan was visiting future college dorm room with his family just a week or two prior
-Dylan was at Prom a few days prior
-Erics Dad knew it was him..  Dylan's had no clue
-Many friends and classmates were surprised Dylan could do it, I dont remember anyone shocked Eric was involved.

Its of course all speculation, but I disagree. Dylan was depressed with or without Eric. Dylan's behavioral patterns and motives correspond much more to those for lone shooters - Cho, Jeff, Saari, Steinhauser...

I think that if nothing changed in his mindset, Dylan could have blew up on campus like Cho did.

Eric was, frankly, a pretty rare type as far as spree-suicide killers go. I can't be sure, but I think Eric alone would still be a pretty dysfunctional, malignant member of society. But I think its more likley he would be busted for more crimes like fraud, absue of confidential information, tax evasion etc
Maybe he would commit murder later on. I'm not so sure about Eric on his own going suicidal.

Eric hated society, and wanted to escape beign a part of it,. But even then, suicide seems to have been the odd choice for him even when around Dylan. Dylan was giddy about suicide and gleefully shouted during the attack: "Today is the day I'm gonna die!". Eric in turn shouted stuff like: "Who wants to die next?!" at victims.

There's a difference.

Eric hated to conform, hated being a part of society. But would he alone decide to choose suicide as a way of not participating in society? I somewhat doubt it. He imho would have tried different things first.

I just don't think Dylan could've transferred the "talk" to "action" without a peer. I'm not sure he could've committed suicide alone.

Fatheroftwo wrote:

I just don't think Dylan could've transferred the "talk" to "action" without a peer.  I'm not sure he could've committed suicide alone.

Legit way of thinking, certainly. Dylan was passive, disorganized, slacker and overall petty much a negativistic type. If Dylan would commit a spree himself, it would be a random, short-term baldy planned or unplanned mess. Something like Saari did. Or perhaps he would never put himself from the fantasy to "actual plan" phase at all.

He was lazy, and a slacker. He did let Eric do most of his work.

But IMO by college if nothing changed (strong possibility) I'm telling you he would do the same shit that Cho did. He reminds me a lot of Cho from Virginia Tech. The kid was very mentally ill. He was always suicidal, but not just suicidal, but also was homicidal, mentally disturbed, and on his way to living an unhealthy life. Of course, if he got help (which is also possibility for both boys) nothing would have happened, but if he never got help, and continued on to college he probably would have shot up his college...

Kid had a mask that rarely, if ever dropped while living his "zombie" life. He was very good at fooling people; much more than Eric that is for sure.

Sabratha wrote:

Fatheroftwo wrote:

I just don't think Dylan could've transferred the "talk" to "action" without a peer.  I'm not sure he could've committed suicide alone.

Legit way of thinking, certainly. Dylan was passive, disorganized, slacker and overall petty much a negativistic type. If Dylan would commit a spree himself, it would be a random, short-term baldy planned or unplanned mess. Something like Saari did. Or perhaps he would never put himself from the fantasy to "actual plan" phase at all.

anyways - they did not succeed.
a slacker having to prove that he is some punk and originally tcm isn't a punk - interpreting their writings and reading a lot of acolumbinesite's information as well as diverse other research material concerning rampage / suicide plus critical psychology in general and reflecting former conclusions (, while on luvox or vodka (and i do mean alcohol)) - true story.
additionally, a soldier being repressed by not only his community, but having been forced to socialize with one's surroundings could have reflected some years later (like some have said before in this thread).
i know, one does not have to be jealous, but - to read cullen's stuff and phantasizing about columbine - now that's a dream.

reality told us in 2002 - give a boy a gun and you can be the next mr moore - or todd strasser featuring the thrid wave plus la rue des entrepreneurs, i guess.

depressing - really depressing.

(sorry for off topic emo speech.)

greetz
nightshiftstalker

lol wrote:

He was lazy, and a slacker. He did let Eric do most of his work.

But IMO by college if nothing changed (strong possibility) I'm telling you he would do the same shit that Cho did. He reminds me a lot of Cho from Virginia Tech. The kid was very mentally ill. He was always suicidal, but not just suicidal, but also was homicidal, mentally disturbed, and on his way to living an unhealthy life. Of course, if he got help (which is also possibility for both boys) nothing would have happened, but if he never got help, and continued on to college he probably would have shot up his college...

Kid had a mask that rarely, if ever dropped while living his "zombie" life. He was very good at fooling people; much more than Eric that is for sure.

Frankly, Cho migth have been less in touch with reality and had less social skills, but in all honesty he was better organized than Dylan it seems. Cho was able to stage the shooting in such a way taht police intervention was inhibited and a huge amount of victims isolated. All with something so simple as a chain and lock.

I don't think Dylan was good at fooling people, rather than he just beign a different type of person than Eric. Dylan could piss off HS authorities, but overall he was like Cho - he was meek first and foremost.
He didn't have the "guts" to act out strongly in a regular-life-setting. Just like Cho (question mark), Dylan had to resort to some sort of hidden false-face identity to lash out with his anger. He did it on the basement tapes supposedly (alone with Eric) and tehn during the shooting where he just went "damn it all who cares now!?"

Eric's behavior during teh shooting and BT is pretty much just a logical extension of what eh always did. Dylan is trying very hard to be someone else. Eric doesn't need to.

I agree with some of the above posters that eric likely said it. The majority of the beginning of the shooting, eric was doing almost all the shooting. Dylan was just standing around trying to get his faulty mags to work (he left the 50 round mag outside nearly fully loaded, and 1 was found broken in the hallway) He left 1 in his car on accident, so he was probably very agitated at this point, probably complaining to eric. Then he starts using his one functioning magazine and has the time of his life as some describe it in the library

Even in the movies, Dylan's voice seems obviously like he's just actign and "reading from memory". His "angry" lines in Hitmen are particularly artificial (trsut me, delt with amateur actors like that).

Eric's "angry" scene in Hitmen on the otehr hand is different. Eric sounds real. Perhaps he wa sjust a batter actor, but I think Eric was just better used to expressing his real anger.

As a fun anegdote, that's actually how I chose the roles for my school shooting. The actor who is a really calm persona and has trouble expressing anger got the "dylan-ish shooter" role. The guy playing the "Eric-ish" was the one known in RL more for being ruthless and hostile.

Sabratha wrote:

lol wrote:

He was lazy, and a slacker. He did let Eric do most of his work.

But IMO by college if nothing changed (strong possibility) I'm telling you he would do the same shit that Cho did. He reminds me a lot of Cho from Virginia Tech. The kid was very mentally ill. He was always suicidal, but not just suicidal, but also was homicidal, mentally disturbed, and on his way to living an unhealthy life. Of course, if he got help (which is also possibility for both boys) nothing would have happened, but if he never got help, and continued on to college he probably would have shot up his college...

Kid had a mask that rarely, if ever dropped while living his "zombie" life. He was very good at fooling people; much more than Eric that is for sure.

I don't think Dylan was good at fooling people, rather than he just beign a different type of person than Eric. Dylan could piss off HS authorities, but overall he was like Cho - he was meek first and foremost.
He didn't have the "guts" to act out strongly in a regular-life-setting. Just like Cho (question mark), Dylan had to resort to some sort of hidden false-face identity to lash out with his anger. He did it on the basement tapes supposedly (alone with Eric) and tehn during the shooting where he just went "damn it all who cares now!?"

Eric's behavior during teh shooting and BT is pretty much just a logical extension of what eh always did. Dylan is trying very hard to be someone else. Eric doesn't need to.

I disagree entirely on this.

Eric seems to be one who tries to act like a real bad ass. Scratch that, both of them do. They were kids trying to act as if they were in a Doom video game, but Eric seems more like of a guy who tries to act like a real bad ass. Look at the crap he posted on his website for his own ego, and attention. His "Rebel Missions" tell me enough, and it's funny because it is more likely that Zach and Dylan started the missions, and Eric tagged along. Dylan spoke on how him and Zach were the best buddies of all time, and how it was his other half, and they "tried everything together". Cigarettes, drinking, etc. Personally to me it feels like it was more of Dylan and Zach starting missions, and then Eric comes along, and because he has a more dominant personality, or is more attention seeking by posting all this crap on his website people would figure Eric would be the leader of the trio.

It reminds me of Dave Cullen's nonsense on apparently Eric hitting up a girl at the mall, and Zach and Dylan just stared. Wtf is he even talking about? What kind of BS information is he getting this from? And Zach was the first of the group to get a girlfriend...good one Cullen.

Anyway, back on topic Dylan did fool everyone. His split personalities show enough. No one knew he would be able to commit the act that he did. As for Eric? No one was surprised that he did it. Many CHS students who saw the news immediately figured it was Eric. No one traced back Dylan. Dylan had a depression that he hid from everyone. He was severely depressed, yet acted like a fun loveable guy with an addicting laugh, and a good personality. Everyone liked Dylan in his core of friends. Eric? Not so much. But then we see Dylan's dark side of not only being suicidal, but homicidal, and with the amount of anger he hid from everyone for years. Personally, in the Basement Tapes via transcripts I think this is the real Dylan. "Vodka". I'll even go as far to say that I think Eric was a bit surprised with how excited Dylan was (but I am just pulling this out of my ass, but you never know). Dylan didn't care anymore. In the basement tapes he basically gave his family the entire middle finger, and showed much more anger than Eric.

Eric, on the other hand tried convincing himself to be a stone cold killer. The amount of remorse he has during the BT is mind boggling. This kid here is trying so hard to not bond with his own mother and father because it'll be too hard on him, and them. He even cried on the Basement Tapes, and while we may never know if this was genuine I personally think him crying was. It was unexpected to say the least which is why he turned off the camera quickly. But Eric kept apologizing over, and over, and over during the tapes that you would wonder in the end if he did this more to not let Dylan down. At this point In time Dylan was Eric's only best friend. Eric didn't have friends at this point because he kept losing them. Hell, even in their "good-bye" basement tape, Dylan basically said his good byes in a half ass way. Eric, on the other hand was apologizing to his family, Susan, etc. The one thing that struck me while reading it was this:

Eric: That's it....*pauses for a while*, goodbye.

And then Dylan aims the camera on his face and says "Goodbye".

Also, in the videos of their school projects it's just Dylan being goofy. That's how he always. "A goofy grin" while Eric was overly sensitive, and serious. I don't really take the video in consideration because even Eric looks like he's trying not to laugh while his eyes bulge out. They're just screwing around.

I have to add in one more thing. If we listen to the library call we hear Eric say, "GET UP!" and then you hear Dylan "EVERYBODY GET UP!" Dylan yelling is a little disturbing.
Maybe it's just me, but Eric wasn't joking when he said "Dylan can yell real loud".

Yep we disagree. I think Eric really did believe all the crap he wrote, he was just so bombastic and narcissistic.

“Eric’s violence is more eye-catching. But he’s the outlier. When it comes to other school shooters, they look more like Dylan Klebold. And while it is said that Eric was the deceiver-in-chief, Dylan was the one who fooled everyone. From the first minutes of Columbine, and through the many years of revelations, people express little surprise it was Eric. Dylan is the one who confounds people. Yet he is the type to watch for.”

“Eric also told us why he did it, but I would argue he seems to give two different reasons in two different places. In the Web writings, Eric’s violence is often propelled by a sense of superiority over the dumb, the ignorant, and those who cannot play Doom. The Web writings, it could be expected, were also more targeted for public consumption. 
  But the diary entries tell another story. And because they were not necessarily meant to be public, they may be seen as more truthful. In two of the most telling views into Eric’s mind, he is Dylan Klebold: A sad, lonely, depressive. If Eric truly felt superior, it came from a sense of inferiority"

Eric was a weakling who talked himself up in his own head so much that he actually started to believe it. Its so obvious that I don't understand how people think he was some psychopathic genius. His writing is peppered with lines like "Why can't I get laid?" and "Theres still a chance I could call NBK off. All people have to do is give me more compliments." He wasnt some hardass killer, he was a lonely little boy who was so sick of not getting the respect he wanted that he decided to kill for fame.

And Dylan as a follower? Yeah right. He blew Lance Kirlins face off after mockingly offering to help him. He called Shoels a nigger and laughed while he was killed. He taunted Todd and let him live because NBK wasnt just about killing to Dylan. He wanted to have some "fun" and feel godlike before killing himself. I honestly believe Dylan would have been content to let Eric do all the killing as long as it ended in suicide. Eric was Dylan's puppet. He let him build the bombs, he let him use the more accurate guns, and he let Eric engage Gardner all on his own. In a way Eric was Dylan's real weapon. Someone he could feed violence to and sit back while Eric foamed at the mouth. Cullen has really twisted the view of the boys partnership.

Nirvana92 wrote:

Eric was a weakling who talked himself up in his own head so much that he actually started to believe it. Its so obvious that I don't understand how people think he was some psychopathic genius. His writing is peppered with lines like "Why can't I get laid?" and "Theres still a chance I could call NBK off. All people have to do is give me more compliments." He wasnt some hardass killer, he was a lonely little boy who was so sick of not getting the respect he wanted that he decided to kill for fame.

And Dylan as a follower? Yeah right. He blew Lance Kirlins face off after mockingly offering to help him. He called Shoels a nigger and laughed while he was killed. He taunted Todd and let him live because NBK wasnt just about killing to Dylan. He wanted to have some "fun" and feel godlike before killing himself. I honestly believe Dylan would have been content to let Eric do all the killing as long as it ended in suicide. Eric was Dylan's puppet. He let him build the bombs, he let him use the more accurate guns, and he let Eric engage Gardner all on his own. In a way Eric was Dylan's real weapon. Someone he could feed violence to and sit back while Eric foamed at the mouth. Cullen has really twisted the view of the boys partnership.

I agree completely.

I think we at this forum will almost all agree neither eric nor Dylan was a follower. They were in it togeather and while they had different roles and different personalities, their "investment" in NBK and the 420 actions prove it.

I personally think Eric really believed the narc stuff he wrote, just as much as he believe in his "Why can't I get laid" or his cannibalistic-sadistic rant. All part of his, rather twisted, look on life.

I do think he was psychopathic, but not in any way a genius. The notion taht every psychopath is some sort of long-term planning mastermind is bogus. In fact most psychopaths are rash and impulsive. Eric's long-term planning is actually a non-psychopathic trait.
Also psychopaths come in all ranges of IQ, soem are dumb slobs, some may be very intelligent, the majority is just average. Psychopaths will have on avergae higher conversational skills than their peers, but lower empathy and emotional intelligence.

In short: they make a great first impression, do very well on oral exams or job interviews. They will usually have real issues with keeping up longer relationships (romantic, business, peer) with others. The more you know about them, the less you will like em. However in general they do not immidieatly "stick out" as allthat different from everyone else. They are not like people with severe autism that even a layman will quickly recognize as "something is wrong".

I think the reason why people so strongly oppose Eric's spychopathy, becuas ethe term psychopath opens a "Hannibal Lecter stereotype". Thing is, Hanibal Lecter is hardly a psychopath. That's not what psychopathy is all about.

Jenn wrote:

Sure, on the day of the massacre Eric may have started shooting first and took the lead but that in no way means that he was the leader or that Dylan didn't participate just as much as Eric. Dylan even SAID that he was going to be very nervous and 'shaking like a leaf' at first. But once he got warmed up, he turned into a madman.

Exactly. I've been unable to uncover a single shred of evidence that suggests Dylan was dragging his feet during NBK. If he and Eric had swapped weapons I bet the body count would have been much higher. And that's despite the fact that I'm not sure Eric could have handled Dylan's shotgun without a struggle because Dylan himself had a very hard time getting it loaded and he was much taller and had better leverage than Eric. Neither one of the boys was very strong, physically. Those old sawed-offs were unwieldy as hell.

Nirvana92 wrote:

Eric was a weakling who talked himself up in his own head so much that he actually started to believe it. Its so obvious that I don't understand how people think he was some psychopathic genius. His writing is peppered with lines like "Why can't I get laid?" and "Theres still a chance I could call NBK off. All people have to do is give me more compliments." He wasnt some hardass killer, he was a lonely little boy who was so sick of not getting the respect he wanted that he decided to kill for fame.

And Dylan as a follower? Yeah right. He blew Lance Kirlins face off after mockingly offering to help him. He called Shoels a nigger and laughed while he was killed. He taunted Todd and let him live because NBK wasnt just about killing to Dylan. He wanted to have some "fun" and feel godlike before killing himself. I honestly believe Dylan would have been content to let Eric do all the killing as long as it ended in suicide. Eric was Dylan's puppet. He let him build the bombs, he let him use the more accurate guns, and he let Eric engage Gardner all on his own. In a way Eric was Dylan's real weapon. Someone he could feed violence to and sit back while Eric foamed at the mouth. Cullen has really twisted the view of the boys partnership.

Great post --I agree almost 100%. I think Dylan really wanted to kill people tho, so he wouldn't have been content to let Eric do all the killing.

On the feeding Eric violence point -- this dynamic is clear on the fragment of the basement tapes that was leaked. Dylan says "What would Jesus do? What would I do?" and then Eric goes ballistic "I will blow your f-ing head off!!"

Dylan's instigation is also apparent in the van break-in incident. Also in initiating Eric into the "rebel missions" thing. Also in killing Isaiah Shoels.

About the Rebel Missions...people seem to overlook this.

Dylan and Zack were most likely the first ones to do the Rebel Missions first. Look at his entry:
Dylan's Journal pg 7

" Ever since 7th grade ive felt lonely... when [edited] came around, I finally felt hapiness (sometimes)... we did cigars, drinking, sabotage to houses, EVERYTHING for the first time together"

Sounds to me Eric came in after. Eric just has a more dominant personality, and likes to show off more so it seems as if he was the leader in the missions when he really wasn't. I like to believe at first it was Dylan and Zack doing these missions, and getting drunk together and just doing missions to mess with people's houses for the sake of it. When Eric came in, he decided it would be against people he didn't like. Dylan has a laid back personality. He probably went along, and said "Sure. Whatever." Zack was almost a carbon copy of Dylan as well, and was said to have a very laid back personality, so I imagine he couldn't care less.

lol wrote:

About the Rebel Missions...people seem to overlook this.

Dylan and Zack were most likely the first ones to do the Rebel Missions first. Look at his entry:
Dylan's Journal pg 7

" Ever since 7th grade ive felt lonely... when [edited] came around, I finally felt hapiness (sometimes)... we did cigars, drinking, sabotage to houses, EVERYTHING for the first time together"

Sounds to me Eric came in after. Eric just has a more dominant personality, and likes to show off more so it seems as if he was the leader in the missions when he really wasn't. I like to believe at first it was Dylan and Zack doing these missions, and getting drunk together and just doing missions to mess with people's houses for the sake of it. When Eric came in, he decided it would be against people he didn't like. Dylan has a laid back personality. He probably went along, and said "Sure. Whatever." Zack was almost a carbon copy of Dylan as well, and was said to have a very laid back personality, so I imagine he couldn't care less.

Yep. That's pretty much what I meant. Dylan was an instigator; Eric was an over-achiever. As I've mentioned before, I think Eric was in many ways Dylan's rebound friend from Zach. Another reason to debunk the Eric-as-leader myth.

Yes, I really agree that Eric was Dylan's rebound best friend. We can pretty much state this after Dylan finally convinced himself to go "NBK w. Eric (gawd)" in January 1999. I think in their 9th-10th grade year was Dylan/Zack and Eric/Nate...correct me if I'm wrong. I would say Chris Morris with Eric as well too starting in their 10th grade year