Just admit it

Let's all just admit that we want the basement tapes because we have some sort of odd fascination or even obsession with the killers. let's stop spreading the "but for research purposes" like we are some armchair detectives that can counter years of research from professionals (who we seem not to trust) and set things right.

after reading sue klebolds book and seeing her reasons for keeping the tapes hidden has convinced me that she and the other victims and professionals are right. the tapes shouldn't be released.

if they were released it's just more material for H&K sympathizers to soak up and enjoy. the few who really are doing real research, what would that extra information really accomplish? are you going to publish a book? or give more fuel to your columbine theories that never leave your head?

in fact 90% of the info released about the killers should never have been released. How is it productive knowing every minuscule detail about the killers? how is eric going to burger king beneficial to research? whats the relevance of dylans cd collection?

this isn't research, its obsession.

i know all this from personal experience. having matured and reading everything about the victims and their families stories has made me realize the wrong i was formally apart of.

I don't want to see the tapes. I already know what's on them from reading the descriptions of the people who did get to see them. What would I get out of watching them? Nothing really except probably losing a few nights of sleep because i'm sure they are just as horrible as I imagine they are. (with the anger and hostility I mean, I don't mean gore or cursing or anything that stuff doesn't bother me)

But I think you are right for the most part, many people here have an obsession, some much worse than others. I am mostly only interested in the victims myself, but I have a hard time going a few months without looking up some more information on the subject in general. (I would rather be obsessed with this then say..collecting stamps...LOL)

Sure, I admit it.I have no problem admitting it.This is an obsession for me and has been for more than half my life.Unlike you, though I don't feel that I'm doing some moral wrong by being a Columbiner .

Would I like to see the tapes? Yes.But if they were ever going to be released I feel it  should have been years ago.
To release them now would be like  tearing a wound open for E &D's parents and the victims parents.However, all this is a moot point since although I am sure a copy still exists somewhere they will never come out.

[quote="PaintItBlack"Unlike you, though I don't feel that I'm doing some moral wrong by being a Columbiner though.[/quote]

There's nothing wrong with being a researcher. The problem is when people are H&K sympathizers that act like researchers.

I originally started as just getting info on columbine, then my teenage angst drew me into the killers lives. i didn't idolize them nor try to spread more violence in their name, but i was a defender of them. i took interest in their interests, and if you will, tried to get to know them through all the various info about them. all while telling people i was just "researching". you cant BS a BSer. i see through most of these "columbiners" and their pro h&k bias.

i've grown up and experienced life. in doing that i realize how close minded and immature i was for fretting over 2 colorado teenagers who ruined hundreds of lives including their own and completely changed this nation for the worse all because they were angry and edgy.

i used to hate reading about victims who spoke ill of h&k, i believed the whole 15 not 13 thing. but i got in touch with what the victims were saying. their pain and suffering is real. making this about the killers and their lives is wrong.

im not ignoring h&ks problems and suffering. i can understand where they came from. but a line has to be drawn between acknowledging their pain and excusing their pain. and most columbiners dont see that line.

bobloblaw wrote:

[quote="PaintItBlack"Unlike you, though I don't feel that I'm doing some moral wrong by being a Columbiner though.

There's nothing wrong with being a researcher. The problem is when people are H&K sympathizers that act like researchers.

I originally started as just getting info on columbine, then my teenage angst drew me into the killers lives. i didn't idolize them nor try to spread more violence in their name, but i was a defender of them. i took interest in their interests, and if you will, tried to get to know them through all the various info about them. all while telling people i was just "researching". you cant BS a BSer. i see through most of these "columbiners" and their pro h&k bias.

i've grown up and experienced life. in doing that i realize how close minded and immature i was for fretting over 2 colorado teenagers who ruined hundreds of lives including their own and completely changed this nation for the worse all because they were angry and edgy.

i used to hate reading about victims who spoke ill of h&k, i believed the whole 15 not 13 thing. but i got in touch with what the victims were saying. their pain and suffering is real. making this about the killers and their lives is wrong.

im not ignoring h&ks problems and suffering. i can understand where they came from. but a line has to be drawn between acknowledging their pain and excusing their pain. and most columbiners dont see that line.[/quote]


As with most things in life, it depends on your perspective.
I have never identified myself as or thought of myself as being only a researcher.I have spent thousands upon thousands of hours researching over the years but I've been a Columbiner from day 1 and while they can go together, I realize they are two different things.
I was also very young when I came into this and while I've adjusted my beliefs and some of my thoughts about this over the years, the core of this remains the same for me as the day it happened.
I realize others may see me as close minded and immature for this but I don't agree.
I feel genuine sympathy for the victims and their families but I do have a pro E &D bias as you put it and always have had that.
They were why I was drawn to this from the start.
I don't condone the shooting and see it as a huge tragedy all around, for everyone involved.When I was younger and a lot more angry, I halfway condoned it and wanted to do the same thing myself but I no longer do.
I know a lot about the victims and am very inspired by some of them but its E &D I relate to on most deep, fundamental levels. I truly believe there were 15 victims who died and probably always will.
I don't think your problem is so much with people like me as it is with people like me who you feel are trying to hide what they are or pretend to be someone else.

We already have the full transcripts. If copycats were going to use it, they would of used their imagination by now. Keeping the tapes unreleased because of that excuse is just lame on all levels.

Its funny how they will show all over the media to millions, the cafeteria tapes of them dressed up in full gear, shooting and throwing nades. The library video and pictures showing the brutality. Like a nutjob isnt gonna say "damn thats cool, look at that all the carnage", to all that. But a video of two dorks shit talking the camera saying farewell to their parents is more of a worry.....

I happily admit I have a fascination with killers and death. I don't feel like I NEED to see the tapes though. I was definitely a defender of E and Ds when I first got into researching the subject. Once I dove deeper though and saw that bullying was far from their only reason I started backing off the defense. These were 2 angry teenagers who hated themselves and used big concepts like "self awareness" and "natural selection" to justify their urges to kill and die. The words spoken by them on those tapes contain no intellectual value to the general public. I do believe the tapes should be available for psychologists to study, but there isn't any real reason that the rest need to see them.

I wouldn't say I have an obsession, but I am morbidly curious. I've always been attracted to the macabre and all things weird or abnormal.  With that said, there's already more than enough info out there to inspire copycat shooters.  I'm not desperate to see the BT because the tapes sound like nothing more than 2 kids acting and putting on a show for the camera.   I'm more interested in how they acted off camera.... How they interacted with their peers and families in the months leading up to the massacre.

I can live without seeing the tapes, though I would like to, of course. I feel that there may be a bit of artificiality to them though, seeing how the boys and their bravado may overshadow any real observations of their interactions together, and the way they acted in "real life," which I am much more interested in.

Yeah, I have a weird obsession with Columbine. Most likely, it's not altogether healthy to spend years of your life delving into this kind of shit.

I wrote this last year:

LPorter wrote:

Part of me gets off on this sick shit. Part of me wants to see all of the grisly pictures of the dead kids lying in the library. Part of me wants to hear the whole 911 call, so I can hear Eric and Dylan taunting and murdering their schoolmates, some of whom call out for their mothers right before their innards get splattered all over the floor. Part of me wishes that I'd been there, huddled in a corner, watching the whole nasty business go down, filming it with an HD camera.

And part of me is disgusted by all of it.

Which part is stronger? Well ... there have been times when I've been very apprehensive about clicking on a particular link, but I've never decided not to look at something. For better or for worse, I want to see and hear and know as much as I can. Sometimes I wish I had a close-up shot of Eric's head, so I can see just how much of his skull was left after he pulled the trigger. Sometimes I look at detailed high-resolution pictures of the heads of other guys who've blown their brains out, and I wonder, "Is that how Eric's head looked when they found him?"

I still believe that someone out there has a copy of the tapes, and that one day that copy will see the light of day.

The tapes should not be released, for all the reasons Sue Klebold gives.

.

Wow, I like this guy!

I personally don't really care if I ever get to see the Basement Tapes. Don't get me wrong, I'd watch them if they ever became available but I won't lose any sleep not seeing them.

I don't really see the appeal watching two pathetic specimens eating candy and grimacing drinking booze whilst spewing vile words out of their evil mouths.

Radioactive_Clothing wrote:

I don't really see the appeal watching two pathetic specimens eating candy and grimacing drinking booze whilst spewing vile words out of their evil mouths.

You do see the appeal in reading and discussing all the intricate details of the lives and crimes of the same two pathetic specimens so maybe you really can see the appeal for other people, if you try.

slippy123 wrote:

We already have the full transcripts. If copycats were going to use it, they would of used their imagination by now. Keeping the tapes unreleased because of that excuse is just lame on all levels.

Its funny how they will show all over the media to millions, the cafeteria tapes of them dressed up in full gear, shooting and throwing nades. The library video and pictures showing the brutality. Like a nutjob isnt gonna say "damn thats cool, look at that all the carnage", to all that. But a video of two dorks shit talking the camera saying farewell to their parents is more of a worry.....

I agree with this. Any fool can get on Youtube and watch a video on how to make pipe/propane bombs. It doesn't take a genius. The information any copycat could use is already available elsewhere. Not to mention the transcripts.

If the tapes were ever released I would probably watch but as it stands I am ok with not seeing them. It sounds just like 2 boys trying to act tough saying all kinds of horrible things to puff out their chests.

sscc wrote:

Radioactive_Clothing wrote:

I don't really see the appeal watching two pathetic specimens eating candy and grimacing drinking booze whilst spewing vile words out of their evil mouths.

You do see the appeal in reading and discussing all the intricate details of the lives and crimes of the same two pathetic specimens so maybe you really can see the appeal for other people, if you try.

I know all I need to know about the disgusting creatures.

WendlaBergman wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

Its funny how they will show all over the media to millions, the cafeteria tapes of them dressed up in full gear, shooting and throwing nades. The library video and pictures showing the brutality. Like a nutjob isnt gonna say "damn thats cool, look at that all the carnage", to all that. But a video of two dorks shit talking the camera saying farewell to their parents is more of a worry.....

This sums up my feelings about the Basement Tapes, too. At the very least I see no harm in releasing the goodbye video.

Ugh, imagine all the GIFS posted on tumblr by all the ~edgy~ Dylan and Eric supporters

bubbles wrote:

WendlaBergman wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

Its funny how they will show all over the media to millions, the cafeteria tapes of them dressed up in full gear, shooting and throwing nades. The library video and pictures showing the brutality. Like a nutjob isnt gonna say "damn thats cool, look at that all the carnage", to all that. But a video of two dorks shit talking the camera saying farewell to their parents is more of a worry.....

This sums up my feelings about the Basement Tapes, too. At the very least I see no harm in releasing the goodbye video.

Ugh, imagine all the GIFS posted on tumblr by all the ~edgy~ Dylan and Eric supporters

Edgy?

PaintItBlack wrote:

bubbles wrote:

WendlaBergman wrote:

slippy123 wrote:

Its funny how they will show all over the media to millions, the cafeteria tapes of them dressed up in full gear, shooting and throwing nades. The library video and pictures showing the brutality. Like a nutjob isnt gonna say "damn thats cool, look at that all the carnage", to all that. But a video of two dorks shit talking the camera saying farewell to their parents is more of a worry.....

This sums up my feelings about the Basement Tapes, too. At the very least I see no harm in releasing the goodbye video.

Ugh, imagine all the GIFS posted on tumblr by all the ~edgy~ Dylan and Eric supporters

Edgy?

Edgy is a slang term for people like those who think they're special little snowflakes for idolising REB and vOKDa (omgz swoon!) and posting shrines and tacky GIFs/edited pictures on tumblr, when in reality Eric and Dylan being the selfish, edgy (so self-aware, maaan!) teens they were, would've probably shot their tumblr fans on sight if they had spotted them at Columbine.

It's a matter of opinion but I've seen that word used to describe Columbiners a lot and neither myself or the few other Columbiners I've gotten to know well over the years were doing it to be edgy.

PaintItBlack wrote:

It's a matter of opinion but I've seen that word used to describe Columbiners a lot  and neither myself or the few other Columbiners I've gotten to know well over the years were doing it to be edgy.

There's a difference between being interested in the subject and glorifying Eric and Dylan. The ~edgy~ ones I'm referring to are the annoying, immature fangirls/boys going "omg they're sooo cute", posting dumb, tasteless pictures/GIFs and making insensitive jokes all the time about the topic. I can understand the interest in Dylan and Eric but I don't understand the idolisation route that some people go down.

bubbles wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

It's a matter of opinion but I've seen that word used to describe Columbiners a lot  and neither myself or the few other Columbiners I've gotten to know well over the years were doing it to be edgy.

There's a difference between being interested in the subject and glorifying Eric and Dylan. The ~edgy~ ones I'm referring to are the annoying, immature fangirls/boys going "omg they're sooo cute", posting dumb, tasteless pictures/GIFs and making insensitive jokes all the time about the topic. I can understand the interest in Dylan and Eric but I don't understand the idolisation route that some people go down.

Basically this is the average edgy Columbine post on Tumblr.

dumbass wrote:

lik omg xDDDD reic haris and dlyna klebold r both modern americn hero lol xD they did wat every person shoul aspir 2 do and waht i aspire 2 do: they fought the society. society is teh most eovillist thing ever 2 exist an it control da ppl and make them sad xD they tok their pain out on other ppl and destroy the estalbishlment in proces it get good! it geratest thing ever! fuck the victumz the only victumz wer rdylan an eric especialy eric he so hot and sex c xDDDDDDD lol XD ebin ebin

lol like im so full of pain an sadnes just like dylan lol hes a sewete angel, but eric sweeter angel lol xD he make me vag throb <3333333 ebbb

bubbles wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

It's a matter of opinion but I've seen that word used to describe Columbiners a lot  and neither myself or the few other Columbiners I've gotten to know well over the years were doing it to be edgy.

There's a difference between being interested in the subject and glorifying Eric and Dylan. The ~edgy~ ones I'm referring to are the annoying, immature fangirls/boys going "omg they're sooo cute", posting dumb, tasteless pictures/GIFs and making insensitive jokes all the time about the topic. I can understand the interest in Dylan and Eric but I don't understand the idolisation route that some people go down.

I guess to be a Columbiner by definition, you do glorify them to some degree.Different people are going to take that to different levels.
The one thing that makes a Columbiner different than a researcher is that you feel a deep, profound, emotional connection to E &D and they have an important or meaningful place in your life.
That is the best way I know to describe it.

.

I think the definition isn't solidly defined anywhere. So it's definition probably varies, I think if you feel some sort of connection towards E&D then you are probably a Columbiner but then again it's probably up to your own personal definition to decide.

PaintItBlack wrote:

bubbles wrote:

PaintItBlack wrote:

It's a matter of opinion but I've seen that word used to describe Columbiners a lot  and neither myself or the few other Columbiners I've gotten to know well over the years were doing it to be edgy.

There's a difference between being interested in the subject and glorifying Eric and Dylan. The ~edgy~ ones I'm referring to are the annoying, immature fangirls/boys going "omg they're sooo cute", posting dumb, tasteless pictures/GIFs and making insensitive jokes all the time about the topic. I can understand the interest in Dylan and Eric but I don't understand the idolisation route that some people go down.

I guess to be a Columbiner by definition, you do glorify them to some degree.Different people are going to take that to different levels.
The one thing that makes a Columbiner different than a researcher is that you feel a deep, profound, emotional connection to E &D and they have an important or meaningful place in your life.
That is the best way I know to describe it.

I think [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] does a pretty good job at a serviceable definition of Columbiner.

By that definition too, I would say Cullen is not a researcher, but a Columbiner himself. His infatuation with Dylan borders on the creepy old chicken-hawk type of thing.